Steroids-The Line

[Bugg]

There are some guys who took steroids to make HoF careers even better. In this group-Alex Rodriguez, Clemens, Bonds, Manny Ramirez.This is one side of the Line.

Then on the other side of the Line there are the guys who went from nobodies and average players to stars with PEDs- Arias/Ortiz, Palmiero, McGwire, Gaimbi, Sosa.

And that;s waht i thoguht when I asw "Big Papi" stunmble over his words yesterday. He saw a chance to go from David Arias, Twins washout, to David Ortiz, Big Papi.He reinvented himself with roids. And so he took the needle. And can you really fault him? He was on a one way ticket back to Palookaville, either as a fringe player or all the way back to the DR. And instead he took the needle. He went from Danny Tartabull/Ryan Klesko to superstar. ANd bigger than that, he's made over $40 million and counting in salary since 2003(and God knows how much in ads and endorsements). As a simple math problem, roids were a great decision. I'm not sure if he's a complete fraud or just keeping up with the competition.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml

[T0mShane]

There are some guys who took steroids to make HoF careers even better. In this group-Alex Rodriguez, Clemens, Bonds, Manny Ramirez.This is one side of the Line.

Then on the other side of the Line there are the guys who went from nobodies and average players to stars with PEDs- Arias/Ortiz, Palmiero, McGwire, Gaimbi, Sosa.

And that;s waht i thoguht when I asw "Big Papi" stunmble over his words yesterday. He saw a chance to go from David Arias, Twins washout, to David Ortiz, Big Papi.He reinvented himself with roids. And so he took the needle. And can you really fault him? He was on a one way ticket back to Palookaville, either as a fringe player or all the way back to the DR. And instead he took the needle. He went from Danny Tartabull/Ryan Klesko to superstar. ANd bigger than that, he's made over $40 million and counting in salary since 2003(and God knows how much in ads and endorsements). As a simple math problem, roids were a great decision. I'm not sure if he's a complete fraud or just keeping up with the competition.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml

Great post. In the same situation, if any of us were in an environment where taking PED's was so common, and so necessary to stay employed, I don't know who wouldn't. In the final analysis, I think that we're going to judge all of these players not on whether or not they actually DID steroids, but rather how they handled the apology after they're outed. We'll forgive the Andy Pettite's of the world, but we'll always look at Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens as complete disgraces.

[Bugg]

It's all fine and good and high and mighty to rip Ortiz. Here's his choice-go back to the DR as a has been after a career as a fringe MLB lefty bat to a country of guys cutting sugar cane for $50 a day, or take the needle, become a superstar and make $40 million. Not an excuse, but you understand. It's an easy choice. Clemens or Bonds are worse; there were already HoFers, and that wasn't enough. But by the same token, don't ever hold up Ortiz as a HoFer, it's a joke, like McGwire. They're Dave Kingman with a pharmacist.

[T0mShane]

It's all fine and good and high and mighty to rip Ortiz. Here's his choice-go back to the DR as a has been after a career as a fringe MLB lefty bat to a country of guys cutting sugar cane for $50 a day, or take the needle, become a superstar and make $40 million. Not an excuse, but you understand. It's an easy choice. Clemens or Bonds are worse; there were already HoFers, and that wasn't enough. But by the same token, don't ever hold up Ortiz as a HoFer, it's a joke, like McGwire. They're Dave Kingman with a pharmacist.

There is nothing I wouldn't do, on a moral or ethiclal level, for $40 million dollars.

[JohnnyHector]

There is nothing I wouldn't do, on a moral or ethiclal level, for $40 million dollars.

The posts that Max made about you in your absence already established that.

[T0mShane]

The posts that Max made about you in your absence already established that.

I did all that stuff for far less than $40 mil.

[PS17]

I agree Bugg. If I was a HoF voter, I would vote for A-Rod and Manny definitely. Maybe Bonds, and probably not Clemens. That's how I look at it. And if you can't put the Mannys and ARods in the HoF from this era, you probably can't put in very many people at all. So I do agree with your premise.

I say the maybe/prob. not for Clemens and Bonds because they are total a-holes, they lied to the public repeatedly.