How is Plaxico an upgrade ?

[JetsFanInDenver]

denver, how do you stretch the field with no time to throw ?

they can't even buy him time with PA or roll outs !!!

it's that bad !!!

Or it could just be that the defenses know they do not have to worry about the deep threat and they only have to defend a certain patch of green instead of the whole field and are more aggressive and close to LOS.

[#27TheDominator]

For this offense he is a downgrade. You admitted as much as well. He lacks speed to stretch the field. He might be a better red zone target but the JETS have to get to the red zone for that advantage to come into play.

Only talking about passing plays here. We have 1 just 1 play this year. We are dead last in the league. We had 11 last year. And we were Top 10 in the league. Not every play can be a catch and run play for 40 yards.

Injuries can happen to anyone. Nobody is safe in this game of attrition. One can only go with probabilities. And probability of an older player getting hurt is signifactly higher. I know Edwards got hurt in SF. But how can we say he would have got hurt and not be able to contribute if he was playing here ?

I certainly did not admit he was a downgrade. We can agree to disagree, but there is a HUGE difference between most 40+ yard plays and better WR play. Red zone play has been a bigger problem and the failure to get there can be pinned more on the running game than Buttress. I also don't see how you can still claim durability as a downgrade because the guy is old when the two guys he replaced have barely played. Sure Edwards might not have gotten hurt here, but he did.

[#27TheDominator]

That pick was on Sanchez. Awful decision. But Burress did nothing to prevent the INT from happening and bail his QB out. The DB made a unhindered catch and kept rolling to the endzone untouched. And Burress just stood there and became the guy with the best view of that interception return for TD.

I agree that Buttress didn't seem to fight much, but he was trying to get to the sticks. It was 3rd down. That's why he didn't come back for the ball. Sanchez wasn't reaching the marker but most of these guys will blame the oc for that.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I agree that Buttress didn't seem to fight much, but he was trying to get to the sticks. It was 3rd down. That's why he didn't come back for the ball. Sanchez wasn't reaching the marker but most of these guys will blame the oc for that.

Even you know thats stretch. And he did the same thing in the NE game in the end zone. He just kept backing up not making any effort to disrupt the play. Luckily that was not an INT.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I certainly did not admit he was a downgrade. We can agree to disagree, but there is a HUGE difference between most 40+ yard plays and better WR play. Red zone play has been a bigger problem and the failure to get there can be pinned more on the running game than Buttress. I also don't see how you can still claim durability as a downgrade because the guy is old when the two guys he replaced have barely played. Sure Edwards might not have gotten hurt here, but he did.

Whether you meant to or not. Thats a different thing. But you did say Burress was not that much of a downgrade which implies....

On our offense the absence of Braylon is hurting us more that most people would like to acknowledge. Sure our Red Zone play has been a problem in the past and we have improved upon that. But getting to the red zone has been our biggest problem this season. We lack speed, That why we sign guys like Dexter Jackson to PS in the pursuit of finding some of that speed.

And if Edwards gets hurt with SF, why do I care. But he might not have gotten hurt here and would have made a great impact!

[#27TheDominator]

Even you know thats stretch. And he did the same thing in the NE game in the end zone. He just kept backing up not making any effort to disrupt the play. Luckily that was not an INT.

No. I don't think it's a stretch. I do think that Burress is a bit of a dog and doesn't look like he makes much attempt, but there was no way he was stopping that. He was running a slow fade to the sideline and the DB was breaking directly at the ball. Sanchez shorted the throw considerably. I haven't watched the replay much, but Sanchez underthrew the sticks and Burress was going past them. I certainly don't defer to "experts" like Boomer about that. I think most of the Burress problem is perceived lack of effort rather than anything that would actually make a difference.

Whether you meant to or not. Thats a different thing. But you did say Burress was not that much of a downgrade which implies....

On our offense the absence of Braylon is hurting us more that most people would like to acknowledge. Sure our Red Zone play has been a problem in the past and we have improved upon that. But getting to the red zone has been our biggest problem this season. We lack speed, That why we sign guys like Dexter Jackson to PS in the pursuit of finding some of that speed.

And if Edwards gets hurt with SF, why do I care. But he might not have gotten hurt here and would have made a great impact!

Oh bullsh*t. I don't mind these discussions, but you know what I said, so don't try to twist it. I said he probably was a slight downgrade for the deep game and that we could agree to disagree. I said "certainly hasn't been a major downgrade" because statistically you could make the case that the yards and catches will be down compared to Edwards, but the TDs up. Personally, I believe it is an upgrade, but even if you prefer catches and yards you'd have to agree the numbers are at least similar.

I don't agree that they miss Edwards much or that a lack of a deep threat is a major problem on O. I actually posted in another thread that you might be right that the team has some speed concerns at WR. You left out Eron Riley who is actually on the active roster. OTOH, they always pick up guys like that and have been putting WRs on the practice squad all during Tannenbaum's tenure. See Clowney and Patrick Turner. By any token that you can attribute them picking up speed to Burress being unable to get deep, you can attribute picking up Turner to Edwards not using his body well.

[JetsFanInDenver]

No. I don't think it's a stretch. I do think that Burress is a bit of a dog and doesn't look like he makes much attempt, but there was no way he was stopping that. He was running a slow fade to the sideline and the DB was breaking directly at the ball. Sanchez shorted the throw considerably. I haven't watched the replay much, but Sanchez underthrew the sticks and Burress was going past them. I certainly don't defer to "experts" like Boomer about that. I think most of the Burress problem is perceived lack of effort rather than anything that would actually make a difference.

How do we know ? He never even made an attempt. I saw him in the 4th quarter of that game. He was out of gas!

And i have not see anyone say that was not Mark Sanchez's mistake.

Oh bullsh*t. I don't mind these discussions, but you know what I said, so don't try to twist it. I said he probably was a slight downgrade for the deep game and that we could agree to disagree. I said "certainly hasn't been a major downgrade" because statistically you could make the case that the yards and catches will be down compared to Edwards, but the TDs up. Personally, I believe it is an upgrade, but even if you prefer catches and yards you'd have to agree the numbers are at least similar.

I don't agree that they miss Edwards much or that a lack of a deep threat is a major problem on O. I actually posted in another thread that you might be right that the team has some speed concerns at WR. You left out Eron Riley who is actually on the active roster. OTOH, they always pick up guys like that and have been putting WRs on the practice squad all during Tannenbaum's tenure. See Clowney and Patrick Turner. By any token that you can attribute them picking up speed to Burress being unable to get deep, you can attribute picking up Turner to Edwards not using his body well.

It is a major downgrade for this offense. Otherwise why are we struggling. Right now we miss Braylon's ability to stretch the field. The guy was a monster on deep plays. We do not have that speed on the field. Which makes the opposing defenses job a lot more easier. And hence the predicament the JETS offense finds itself in. Burress is a better end zone threat. But against good heck even decent defenses we are getting to the red zone with remarkable rarity!

At the end of the day Braylon's loss has had a HUGE impact on this defense!

[#27TheDominator]

BTW, I'm not actually upset. I saw your winky face.

We can look at it two ways 2010 Jets vs. 2011 Jets or 2011 Jets vs. 2011 stats for Edwards Cotchery Smith.

2010: Edwards: 53 for 904 and 6 TDs

Cotchery: 41 for 455 and 2 TDs

Smith: 4 for 44 and 0

TOTAL: 98 for 1403 and 8 TDs

2011: Edwards: 13 for 167 and 0

Cotchery: 6 for 83 and 1 TD

Smith: 8 for 78 and 0

PROJECTION: 43 for 525 and maybe 2.

Burress: 30 for 425 and 6 TDs

Mason: 13 for 115 and 0

Kerley: 17 for 184 and 1

PROJECTION: 96 for 1158 and 11 TDs.

It's true that the projection is off because Mason shouldn't get a 16 game season, but then we'd have to add Turner or whoever. Cotchery and Edwards haven't played much and may improve on the projection. Kerley is hurt now, so who knows? Either way, I don't see the downgrade and if there is one, I don't see how it's Burress.

[jetsjetsjetss]

This is true, and I know why....thats a direct statement towards playcalling. Schotty is a ******* a$$hole. I wouldnt expect Sanchez to look good in this offense. Who the hell ever did?

people jump our routes because sanchez stares down receivers.....

[#27TheDominator]

It is a major downgrade for this offense. Otherwise why are we struggling. Right now we miss Braylon's ability to stretch the field. The guy was a monster on deep plays. We do not have that speed on the field. Which makes the opposing defenses job a lot more easier. And hence the predicament the JETS offense finds itself in. Burress is a better end zone threat. But against good heck even decent defenses we are getting to the red zone with remarkable rarity!

At the end of the day Braylon's loss has had a HUGE impact on this defense!

Are you serious?

1. Wayne Hunter has sucked

2. Mangold was hurt and hasn't looked as good as usual.

3. Moore has regressed/not fully recovered from his injury.

4. They miss the blocking of Hartsock/Richardson/Rob Turner as an extra TE.

5. Ferguson hasn't looked so hot either.

6. Sanchez has often looked like sh*t/snake bitten from the pressure.

They didn't look so ******* hot last year either. Braylon Edwards was a monster? He played in all four games where they failed to score a TD in 2010. They are scoring exactly one tenth of a point less per game than last year. Why did they suck last year on O? It certainly wasn't Burress.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Are you serious?

1. Wayne Hunter has sucked

2. Mangold was hurt and hasn't looked as good as usual.

3. Moore has regressed/not fully recovered from his injury.

4. They miss the blocking of Hartsock/Richardson/Rob Turner as an extra TE.

5. Ferguson hasn't looked so hot either.

6. Sanchez has often looked like sh*t/snake bitten from the pressure.

They didn't look so ******* hot last year either. Braylon Edwards was a monster? He played in all four games where they failed to score a TD in 2010. They are scoring exactly one tenth of a point less per game than last year. Why did they suck last year on O? It certainly wasn't Burress.

If last year was suckage then this year its doubly so! And Mangold was playing in the last 2 games which haven't been stellar performances by the JETS. They might be scoring one tenth of a point less but how many of those points are on offense. There is huge shift in how defense plays the JETS. They are not worried about a deep threat. Because there is none!

[JohnnyHector]

They are not worried about a deep threat. Because there is none!

Or, they are not worried about the Jets throwing deep because their QB has no pocket presence, doesn't/can't go through his progressions, and can't hit the broadside of a barn....

You do realize that Santonio Holmes led the lead in YPC not all that long ago, no?

[CTM]

Or, they are not worried about the Jets throwing deep because their QB has no pocket presence, doesn't/can't go through his progressions, and can't hit the broadside of a barn....

You do realize that Santonio Holmes led the lead in YPC not all that long ago, no?

he plays slower in schotty's system..

[JetsFanInDenver]

Or, they are not worried about the Jets throwing deep because their QB has no pocket presence, doesn't/can't go through his progressions, and can't hit the broadside of a barn....

You do realize that Santonio Holmes led the lead in YPC not all that long ago, no?

Now this is not meant to absolve the QB play. But we had the same QB last year. Even the same offensive coordinator. And yet we had 11 40+ yard passing plays. This is year just 1. Last season we were in the Top 10 in that category and right now we are dead last in the league.

I saw Santonio play the last game at Denver. And to say his performance was pathetic is an insult to everything that is pathetic in this world. Not sure if he has been doing the same for remainder of the season because on TeeVee most of the times you cannot get a glimpse of the whole field. Overall our WR play was awful in the Denver game.

[SenorGato]

he plays slower in schotty's system..

Dude, den why don't dey put a stop to dese shenanigans? Huh, yah think Schittenhiemer has naked pictures of Tannenbaum or sumthin?

[THE ILK]

Dude, den why don't dey put a stop to dese shenanigans? Huh, yah think Schittenhiemer has naked pictures of Tannenbaum or sumthin?

I think somebody is mad, because Plax made them do time.

[JustInFudge]

Or, they are not worried about the Jets throwing deep because their QB has no pocket presence, doesn't/can't go through his progressions, and can't hit the broadside of a barn....

You do realize that Santonio Holmes led the lead in YPC not all that long ago, no?

You mean, when he like, used to stretch the field for Pitts? lol

This argument is hilarious. Our offense sucks...just like it has for the last 2 season with the Snchz/Schtty combo. The only difference in this season and any other is our OL isnt as good. WR's, RB's, QB's...no different. No upgardes, no downgrades. All about the same because the offense sucks.

[#27TheDominator]

Now this is not meant to absolve the QB play. But we had the same QB last year. Even the same offensive coordinator. And yet we had 11 40+ yard passing plays. This is year just 1. Last season we were in the Top 10 in that category and right now we are dead last in the league.

I saw Santonio play the last game at Denver. And to say his performance was pathetic is an insult to everything that is pathetic in this world. Not sure if he has been doing the same for remainder of the season because on TeeVee most of the times you cannot get a glimpse of the whole field. Overall our WR play was awful in the Denver game.

That category sucks and it completely meaningless. Top 10 in a meaningless category. I'd prefer a long drive to a 40 + yard play. A tenth of a point per game better, 4 games with no TD and under 10 points. One outright shutout. In 2010 they were a powerhouse! In 2011 they are averaging 15 more yards per game passing and more TDs per game passing. It's Burress' fault!

[JohnnyHector]

You mean, when he like, used to stretch the field for Pitts? lol

This argument is hilarious. Our offense sucks...just like it has for the last 2 season with the Snchz/Schtty combo. The only difference in this season and any other is our OL isnt as good. WR's, RB's, QB's...no different. No upgardes, no downgrades. All about the same because the offense sucks.

Welcome back to reality.

[JustInFudge]

Welcome back to reality.

Just like riding a bike! Or trike!

[JetsFanInDenver]

That category sucks and it completely meaningless. Top 10 in a meaningless category. I'd prefer a long drive to a 40 + yard play. A tenth of a point per game better, 4 games with no TD and under 10 points. One outright shutout. In 2010 they were a powerhouse! In 2011 they are averaging 15 more yards per game passing and more TDs per game passing. It's Burress' fault!

Well if we are still here, alrighty then. I am not sure why other teams throw deep ? Its meaningless after all.

[JetsFanInDenver]

You mean, when he like, used to stretch the field for Pitts? lol

This argument is hilarious. Our offense sucks...just like it has for the last 2 season with the Snchz/Schtty combo. The only difference in this season and any other is our OL isnt as good. WR's, RB's, QB's...no different. No upgardes, no downgrades. All about the same because the offense sucks.

But when the OL does do a good job of protecting a QB , no one is open ? Lets blame it on the OL as well, because there has been no change in WR's on this team since last season!

[#27TheDominator]

Well if we are still here, alrighty then. I am not sure why other teams throw deep ? Its meaningless after all.

Start rating your statistics in terms of meaning. Which is higher? Points or plays over 40 yards?

[JetsFanInDenver]

Start rating your statistics in terms of meaning. Which is higher? Points or plays over 40 yards?

Do those points include defensive scores and ST plays and points scored in garbage time ?

Bottom line is the offense has struggled worse that it did last year.

[#27TheDominator]

Do those points include defensive scores and ST plays and points scored in garbage time ?

Bottom line is the offense has struggled worse that it did last year.

I disagree. They haven't been shut out yet. They haven't scored 6 points yet. Or 9. They struggled mightily last season. I think you thought they should be better this year and they aren't so you want to blame the changes. Maybe you should blame what stayed the same.

[JustInFudge]

But when the OL does do a good job of protecting a QB , no one is open ? Lets blame it on the OL as well, because there has been no change in WR's on this team since last season!

The oline has been different every year under Rex Ryan and this year they've been banged up. Both units suffer from their Qb play. As for as many times as they arent open, they are open and Snchz either cant find them or misses them when he does.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I disagree. They haven't been shut out yet. They haven't scored 6 points yet. Or 9. They struggled mightily last season. I think you thought they should be better this year and they aren't so you want to blame the changes. Maybe you should blame what stayed the same.

5-5 ? And the fact we have looked like sh1t!

[villain_the_foe]

people jump our routes because sanchez stares down receivers.....

People jump our routes because they know more often than not the WR is running a slant. Yes, Sanchez does stare down receivers at times, but it doesnt make a difference. CB's know that we run slants when we need yards. Thats schotty, not sanchez.

[JetsFanInDenver]

The oline has been different every year under Rex Ryan and this year they've been banged up. Both units suffer from their Qb play. As for as many times as they arent open, they are open and Snchz either cant find them or misses them when he does.

And they didn't seem to miraculously suffer from QB play last year. What a mystery!

[JustInFudge]

People jump our routes because they know more often than not the WR is running a slant. Yes, Sanchez does stare down receivers at times, but it doesnt make a difference. CB's know that we run slants when we need yards. Thats schotty, not sanchez.

Meh, I'm not a schotty fan, but I dont put that on him. Thats Snchz's strength. Thats the throw he's most comfortable with. When Sanchez is in a passing situation and he's kills a play, he's always check into the slant because thats his favorite throw...especially if he sees soft coverage which seems to eat him alive for some reason.

[#27TheDominator]

5-5 ? And the fact we have looked like sh1t!

Special teams are worse. Defense is worse. The offensive line is visibly worse and therefore, the team can't run. I think they are more penalized and two of the players who consistently commit drive killing penalties (Mulligan and Hunter) are new. They looked as bad last sesaon against the Ravens, Dolphins and Packers as they have at any time in 2011, but you want to blame Plaxico.

[JustInFudge]

And they didn't seem to miraculously suffer from QB play last year. What a mystery!

Huh? Of course they did. They just had the 4th best rushing game in the league. Our pass game was horrendous, like in the mid 20's, just like it is this year.

[#27TheDominator]

And they didn't seem to miraculously suffer from QB play last year. What a mystery!

Did you watch the games in 2010? Did you watch the opener against the Ravens? The Packers game? The 2nd Dolphins game? The Monday Nighter against the Pats? Our QB needed a diaper in more than 1/4 of the games. Of course we suffered.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Special teams are worse. Defense is worse. The offensive line is visibly worse and therefore, the team can't run. I think they are more penalized and two of the players who consistently commit drive killing penalties (Mulligan and Hunter) are new. They looked as bad last sesaon against the Ravens, Dolphins and Packers as they have at any time in 2011, but you want to blame Plaxico.

So everyone besides Plax or lack of Braylon is to blame for the JETS demise. Got it!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Huh? Of course they did. They just had the 4th best rushing game in the league. Our pass game was horrendous, like in the mid 20's, just like it is this year.

This year almost every game has been suck worthy on offense! I cannot recall a stretch of 10 games in the past 2 seasons where we were this bad.