Jets Interested in Fred Davis?

[pedro55]

My case? It really has nothing to do about Moneyball. Whether the analogy fits or not, we seem to be reverting from red carpet treatments and lavish dinners, with helicopter tours and what-not...to having the media do our bidding with "leaked" interest reports.

Do we still want Dawan Landry? What happened with that?

Boothe re-upped with Big Blue.

Kellen Davis moved on without so much as a visit.

Butler is touring the NFL sans New Jersey.

Devito. Now Potty.

It seems our team is a hard sell and were willing to take last years IR/PUP All-Stars, and see what happens. They can't ALL get injured again, right?

The best "case" for this is our linked interest to two completely different players in Kellen and Fred. The only thing they have in common is that they were both cut, and will not affect our comp picks next year. For that reason, they are more of roster fillers than actually desired talent. Cheap bodies. That's all.

 

  It is funny when people talk about statistics and leave injuries out as a part of that conversation.  

Many of the players have been injury prone or missed entire seasons.  

 

Willie Colon missed all of 2010 and most of 2011 due to injury, he missed 5 games last year due to injury.  

He lead the league in penalties even with missing 5 games.

So a guy who  missed 37 games out of 48 games in the past 3 seasons is not a huge risk?  

 

We've already discussed Mike Goodson.  He's missed games, he's barely played in games, and there's nothing more that needs to be said about him.

 

 David Garrard hasn't played since 2010.  Enough said.

 

Other guys that they have showed interest in seem to be injury prone or guys who just missed a season or close to it.

 

People hope Revis comes back from his injury, and you never know if he'll be the same player.  Now imagine guys who are practice squad players compared to Revis and coming off or being injury prone.    Statistically speaking there is far more downside to guys like this over upside. The upside to Revis is he will come back as the old Revis.  The upside to a Willie Colon is a guy who is a decent enough OL who gets called for a lot of penalties.

[SenorGato]

 In the NFL, what have we learned?  That he barely played since being drafted.   Last year he had 35 carries the entire season.   Can they get lucky and this guy actually produces?  Yes, but don't make up a story about the Jets using "statistics' to determine Goodson was a good pickup.   There are tons of other guys out there far better than Goodson.  Goodson was cheap.  That's it.   

 

 

1 - That's what you learned. I learned that when he did play he produced. I learned that his combine numbers are excellent for the position, that he's 26, and that he's had no significant injuries.

 

2 - Last year he touched the ball 51 times for over 9 yards a touch. Not a great sample size, but RB performance generally stabilizes quickly. In fact, that RB performance tends to stabilize quickly is why it should have been predictable than Kevan Barlow in 2006 would be a bust - he had carried the ball for only maybe 3.55 YPC in the previous two seasons. 

 

3. I'm not making it up. It's quite obvious that's what they did. Kellen Davis was cheap for the Browns and was rumored here. Why isn't he here? Answer: what he produces when he plays is not conducive to winning. What Mike Goodson does when he plays *is* helpful. That he's cheap only further improves the fit. 

 

That's the problem with stats.  You throw out 6 yards a carry in college,  but forget to mention he did that freshman year.  Sophomore year he only averaged 4.6 yards a carry and didn't start often.   His JR season, he was off to a slow start, got injured, and finished with under 500 yards rushing the entire season.  Then he went AWOL and decided to go pro.    People thought he was more a receiver than a running back.

 

Mike Goodson touched the ball 464 times in college and put up 2824 yards. Divide the yards by the touches and you get 6.1. You cannot ignore a whole part of his game - catching passes out of the backfield - because catching passes out of the backfield is a good thing that leads to more yards and a better chance to win. Lol you even acknowledge his passing catching skills and treat it as a knock. The problem with statistics is who/how they get analyzed. 

 

None of that would have mattered if he showed something in the NFL.  Except he hasn't.  A nice game here and there isn't what statistics is based on. Not even close.  The guys best year and only year where he got some playing time,  he averaged 4.4 yards per carry on 100+ carries.  Nobody would say this is a moneyball kind of guy.   More like he was cheap.

 

You...Money is in the ******* name. The A's weren't the subject of a book called Moneyball because they spend like the Yankees ffs. 

[SenorGato]

 

Willie Colon missed all of 2010 and most of 2011 due to injury, he missed 5 games last year due to injury.  

He lead the league in penalties even with missing 5 games.

So a guy who  missed 37 games out of 48 games in the past 3 seasons is not a huge risk?  

 

 

 

 David Garrard hasn't played since 2010.  Enough said.

 

 

 

...

 

What're you taaaaaaalking about? THIS IS WHY THEY ARE CHEAP. Not one person is saying anything about a no risk signing - there is no such thing as no risk in the first place. They've both started for high quality teams in their careers - they're not here because they suck and came cheap because they suck. They're old. They're injured. Neither is really capable of coming in and being a full time starter without disaster hitting the already mediocre roster. Hell, there's a real shot neither, especially Colon, even makes the team out of training camp. They're depth - they are more experienced depth than what the Jets have and Garrard is a competent starter when he has been able to get on the field. 

 

 Now imagine guys who are practice squad players compared to Revis and coming off or being injury prone.  

 

None of Goodson, Colon, or Garrard are practice squad players. That is the point. There is a massive gap between high end producer and totally not productive. 

[pedro55]

Beane is still there, and people were using stats long before the A's. Stats were not what Moneyball was about. Stats are a tool. If you really want to get into it the Yankees and Cardinals have been heavy on numbers for decades...Branch Rickey was preaching statistical analysis in the 50's. 

The underrated skill when Moneyball was written was OBP. After that caught on in the mainstream then the new Moneyball moved to preventing runs and defense. Since the shift to defense there has been a large focus on quantifying defense. Now (Well, always, the tech is getting better) it goes beyond just game statistics - there is a huge shift towards scouting, biomechanical analysis, and injury prevention/recovery. 

Basically, it's only more hype than it once was because most people, even many baseball fans, chose not to understand what that book was saying. They read it - they got that OBP is important and that the A's relied heavily on statistics - but could not move beyond that to the larger (and rather obvious and general) meaning of the book. There are a great deal of people who think Billy Beane wrote the book, STILL. You don't even think Beane is around anymore...Moneyball *the book/story/movie*  was talking about "that team" from the period of time, but the concepts behind the book apply to roster building in general not in that specific instance. Moneyball didn't end because ****in Giambi, Tejada, Hudson/Mulder/Zito left - if anything the A's had to turn it up to keep putting a quality product on the field after those guys (which they have more often than not). 

 

Also, most people don't understand stats. 

 

 

  The biggest problem with the Moneyball concept is if you look at the A's in 2002....  

They replaced Giambi  with Hatteberg,  and Justice took over for Long who replaced Damon combo.

Justice got hurt, only played in like 114 games, had no power,  and couldn't even do better than a bad Damon season.

Hatteberg did well, but he didn't replace Giambi. Not even close.  And Long.. He couldn't even remain the starter in Center Field. 

 

 And using statistics,  according to the damn Pythagorean record, the A's were 8 wins worse in 2002 than 2001.   

 

 What any of these statistics fails to tell you is that the MVPs of the A's during that era were really Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson.

Miguel Tejada was an MVP.  All those guys were on the A's before the 'money ball concept' came to be hyped.    

It's far easier to depend on stats  and say thats the reason you win when you have those 4 players playing for you.  

The stats assistant GM guy Paul joined the A's in 1999.  All four of those all stars for the A's were drafted before he came to the team.

Hell, Eric Chavez wasn't a bad player either.

 

  The goal was to get the maximum number of wins out of each dollar and do it at low cost cause the A's had no money.   It was more about getting over the hump over rebuilding a roster.  AKA how do you still win without Jason Giambi?  Because they weren't going to replace him, they just needed to add value that came close. ANd what else could they add and where.   And all that would turn into wins that make a 100 win team into a 102 win team and so on.   

 

 It's also the reason why the A's stunk for most of the last decade because the concept was more "how to get over the hump"  compared to building a team from scratch.   The A's had one of the best 3 pitchers pitching for them.  3 guys who all could win Cy Young awards. And they were young.

They had an MVP short stop. A decent 3rd basement.    Finding players to surround those guys is far easier than finding players to build a winning team.

 

 This is why the 'money ball' concept doesn't work for the Jets.  They dont' have the Zitos or Mulders or Hudson's. They don't have a Miguel or even Chavez.   If Revis is gone, what do the Jets really have?    You can't build a team based on statistics if all you have are cheap players that are coming off of injury.  That's cheap ball, not money ball.

[pedro55]

 The other problem with all your examples is this 'depth' concept.  Colon helped the Yanks, but whether he played or not, wasn't the end of the world.  This season might have been a different story considering all their injuries.      The Jets don't even have starters, so adding for depth makes little sense.  And you can't say it's building depth for the future because half these guys could be retired of gone after the year anyway.   

 

  And I'm not talking about the book, I'm talking about the A's and what they tried to accomplish.  Long before they had the stats guy, they already had Hudson, Zito, Mulder, and Tijueda.         Easy to build around that.       WHo are the 4 pro bowl players the jets can build around with depth?

[SenorGato]

 

The best "case" for this is our linked interest to two completely different players in Kellen and Fred. The only thing they have in common is that they were both cut, and will not affect our comp picks next year. For that reason, they are more of roster fillers than actually desired talent. Cheap bodies. That's all. 

 

 

 

How are they different? You, as usual, fail to ponder.

 

Fred Davis put up almost 800 yards just two years ago with John Beck/Rex Grossman/Friends and was on a very similar pace this past season before injury.

 

Kellen Davis put up 229 in 2012, tops, with a better player than all those guys QB'ing him. This on a team that desperately wanted him to be a pass catcher for them.

 

Kellen was allowed to sign for the Browns to sign for pennies. He signs for pennies because he sucks, Davis (like Landry last year) likely signs for cheap because of his injury. Between the two Fred Davis is by far the more desired talent, and he'd have a significant market if he did not get hurt last year. He is a buy low candidate, Kellen Davis is a "**** we're ****ed" picked up (hence the Browns). 

[pedro55]

  And Analytic's is beyond hype at the moment. So are Statistics.   Every little story gets amped and everybody and their brother tries to figure out how they did it and how they can do it.  AKA the retail chains trying to analyze everything about a customer, online and offline. The Nate Silver's of the world predicting the election with accuracy.      Analytic's is all the craze, all the hype whether it's in sports, politics, business, or the government.    

What makes you think everybody is an expert just because they are some scout or know about monte carlo simulations and ARPU or classification or clustering or data mining?     Sometimes there are statisticians and there are business people.  Most times the two don't mix.  It worked well enough with Billy B and Paul because one was the stat guy, the other was open minded and knew baseball.      Same goes for anything.   If all you use are some algorithms spit into a machine,  you probably aren't going to get what you're looking for.  And if all you want are cheap players coming off injury, that's all you'll get.  

 

  Back to that 2002 season. The A's weren't replacing Giambi.  It wan't that much to replace 2001 Johnny Damon.    But they found ways to come close or other ways to make it work.  But again, they had the big 3 pitchers and an MVP short stop.      

Fast forward that to the Jets situation.  

What value are the Jets planning to get out of Goodson?   What's the difference between him and McKnight? Goodson is a backup player in college and in the pros.   "when he got his chance" is a funny concept considering the guy has touched the ball what,  less than 200 times his entire career.

He won't suddenly turn into some 200 carry guy this year.  Which means what is the value?   Other than being cheap.

[pedro55]

 

 

 

How are they different? You, as usual, fail to ponder.

 

Fred Davis put up almost 800 yards just two years ago with John Beck/Rex Grossman/Friends and was on a very similar pace this past season before injury.

 

Kellen Davis put up 229 in 2012, tops, with a better player than all those guys QB'ing him. This on a team that desperately wanted him to be a pass catcher for them.

 

Kellen was allowed to sign for the Browns to sign for pennies. He signs for pennies because he sucks, Davis (like Landry last year) likely signs for cheap because of his injury. Between the two Fred Davis is by far the more desired talent, and he'd have a significant market if he did not get hurt last year. He is a buy low candidate, Kellen Davis is a "**** we're ****ed" picked up (hence the Browns). 

 

  This is according to you.   So the Jets have some statistical plan for Davis,  but the Browns are just idiots and have no clue as there is no value in Kellen.   I don't disagree with your assessment, but at the same time, it sounds a bit one sided in thinking one team knows what they are doing with no evidence to say they do  compared to another team who has no clue what they are doing, with no real evidence.  

 

Considering both teams have new Front offices,  who really knows who is right or if both are wrong or right.

[SenorGato]

 The other problem with all your examples is this 'depth' concept.  Colon helped the Yanks, but whether he played or not, wasn't the end of the world.  This season might have been a different story considering all their injuries.      The Jets don't even have starters, so adding for depth makes little sense.  And you can't say it's building depth for the future because half these guys could be retired of gone after the year anyway.   

 

  And I'm not talking about the book, I'm talking about the A's and what they tried to accomplish.  Long before they had the stats guy, they already had Hudson, Zito, Mulder, and Tijueda.         Easy to build around that.       WHo are the 4 pro bowl players the jets can build around with depth?

 

Bold: Wow. This is based on what? Your opinion? 

 

Italicized: You really, really, really, really do not get what Moneyball was talking about. Sandy Alderson was the GM of the A's before Beane, Stats did not just pop up in the early 2000s. Not only that, but the only one of those guys up before 1999 was Tejada, and none of those guys broke out until 2000. 

 

As far as Pro Bowl Jets:

Revis

D'Brick

Mangold

Cromartie

Wilkerson is Pro Bowl caliber

[SenorGato]

  This is according to you.   So the Jets have some statistical plan for Davis,  but the Browns are just idiots and have no clue as there is no value in Kellen.   I don't disagree with your assessment, but at the same time, it sounds a bit one sided in thinking one team knows what they are doing with no evidence to say they do  compared to another team who has no clue what they are doing, with no real evidence.  

 

Considering both teams have new Front offices,  who really knows who is right or if both are wrong or right.

Anyone - what does this mean? 

 

You can't disagree with my assessment because it's correct. There is TONS of evidence than Fred Davis is better than Kellen Davis. He was better in college. He was drafted earlier. He has been better as a pro. Even in a 7 game season he put up more yards (325) than K. Davis did in 16 (229). 

 

The fact is that Fred Davis, if healthy, is a better player and if he is healthy he is likely to remain a better player. The Browns signed Kellen Davis because he's cheap and a body for a team that has nothing at that position. The Jets avoided Kellen Davis because he sucks. It's really that simple. 

[SenorGato]

What value are the Jets planning to get out of Goodson?   What's the difference between him and McKnight?

 

Serious question? You can't distinguish between the two? Woodson has caught 40 more passes in his career with only one year on McKnight and very limited touches. They've run for the same YPC but McKnight has never topped 43 carries as a pro in a season and has never scored a TD on offense. McKnight has scored a couple of KR TDs, but Goodson is actually not bad there either. 

 

That you knock Goodson for being a backup - in a league FULL of RB rotations - is not showing me you have a solid grasp of what we're talking about in this little conversation. 

[pedro55]

Serious question? You can't distinguish between the two? Woodson has caught 40 more passes in his career with only one year on McKnight and very limited touches. They've run for the same YPC but McKnight has never topped 43 carries as a pro in a season and has never scored a TD on offense. McKnight has scored a couple of KR TDs, but Goodson is actually not bad there either. 

 

That you knock Goodson for being a backup - in a league FULL of RB rotations - is not showing me you have a solid grasp of what we're talking about in this little conversation. 

 

 You're funny when you make things up.     So Goodson has topped 40 carries how many times in his career?    

And he averaged 4.4 YPC that year with 103 carries for a whopping 400 and something yards.  

I"m not knocking Goodson for being a backup, it's just funny you are saying Goodson is far better than McKnight, except they aren't really all that different.   McKnight seems to be a better receiver, but McKnight is a better returner.  He's had about 2,000 kickoff receiving yards the past two years while Goodson doesn't even return punts and has had under 700 total kickoff receiving yards the last two seasons.

 

 What statistics are you using to claim over 2K in kickoff return yards is not better than about 650 yards?

[SenorGato]

 You're funny when you make things up.     So Goodson has topped 40 carries how many times in his career?    

And he averaged 4.4 YPC that year with 103 carries for a whopping 400 and something yards.  

I"m not knocking Goodson for being a backup, it's just funny you are saying Goodson is far better than McKnight, except they aren't really all that different.   McKnight seems to be a better receiver, but McKnight is a better returner.  He's had about 2,000 kickoff receiving yards the past two years while Goodson doesn't even return punts and has had under 700 total kickoff receiving yards the last two seasons.

 

 What statistics are you using to claim over 2K in kickoff return yards is not better than about 650 yards?

 

1. One more time than McKnight has.

 

2. 4.4 YPC is pretty good. He was a top 50 RB that year in a league where the majority try to carry at least two competent guys. 

 

3. Goodson is better than McKnight.

 

4. McKnight seems to be a better pass catcher based on what? How large is his advantage in KRs in the grand scheme of things, particularly since Goodson is the better offensive player?

 

t's 

 

91 1995

for Goodson in KR yards vs:

 

 

76 2205 2

for McKnight. 

 

Keep in mind that the Jets pretty consistently do well in kick returns going back to pre-McKnight years.

 

5. McKnight returns punts in the sense that they had to throw a body out there. Punt returns have been a weakness over the past couple years here. The team needs someone who can return punts. McKnight's returned 7 in his career, none last year. 

[SenorGato]

I like McKnight more than most too, but he's still a really young player at only 24 in his fourth season. If he were to break out in 2013, great another good player for The Future. Right now he's not good enough to avoid competition for his role, and Goodson is quality competition for him. 

[pedro55]

 

 

 

How are they different? You, as usual, fail to ponder.

 

Fred Davis put up almost 800 yards just two years ago with John Beck/Rex Grossman/Friends and was on a very similar pace this past season before injury.

 

Kellen Davis put up 229 in 2012, tops, with a better player than all those guys QB'ing him. This on a team that desperately wanted him to be a pass catcher for them.

 

Kellen was allowed to sign for the Browns to sign for pennies. He signs for pennies because he sucks, Davis (like Landry last year) likely signs for cheap because of his injury. Between the two Fred Davis is by far the more desired talent, and he'd have a significant market if he did not get hurt last year. He is a buy low candidate, Kellen Davis is a "**** we're ****ed" picked up (hence the Browns). 

 

  So how is Fred Davis better than Dustin Keller?    

I mean two seasons ago Keller had 65 receptions and over 800 yards receiving with Sanchez as his QB.  He just signed a one year deal with the Dolphins   Was 4.25 million too much for Keller?  Probably.  

 

 Then again you seem to only use stats you want to use and dismiss everything else.  

Like Fred Davis. He  had that one good year with 59 receptions and 800 yards receiving.  

The rest of the guys career he's averaged about 25 catches and 300 yards.  

You can say he would have had another good year last year, but that's all you can assume, there are no hard facts to back that up.

He got hurt. Keller got hurt.  Over their careers, Keller has had the better Career for a receiver, and he's had Sanchez as QB. 

 

 The upside is Keller seems to be the better more consistent receiver, Davis is a guy you hope has a season like he did in 2011.   

You also hope Davis doesn't get suspended again and misses the entire season.  Off the field issues should be considered as well.

You forgot to mention he missed 4 games in 2011 for a drug suspension.

[pedro55]

1. One more time than McKnight has.

 

2. 4.4 YPC is pretty good. He was a top 50 RB that year in a league where the majority try to carry at least two competent guys. 

 

3. Goodson is better than McKnight.

 

4. McKnight seems to be a better pass catcher based on what? How large is his advantage in KRs in the grand scheme of things, particularly since Goodson is the better offensive player?

 

t's 

 

91 1995

for Goodson in KR yards vs:

 

 

76 2205 2

for McKnight. 

 

Keep in mind that the Jets pretty consistently do well in kick returns going back to pre-McKnight years.

 

5. McKnight returns punts in the sense that they had to throw a body out there. Punt returns have been a weakness over the past couple years here. The team needs someone who can return punts. McKnight's returned 7 in his career, none last year. 

 

 I meant to say Woodson is the better receiver not McKnight.

[SenorGato]

  So how is Fred Davis better than Dustin Keller? I mean two seasons ago Keller had 65 receptions and over 800 yards receiving with Sanchez as his QB.  He just signed a one year deal with the Dolphins   Was 4.25 million too much for Keller?  Probably.     

 

 

Nobody said Davis is better than Keller. Keller is actually a competent pass catcher. Fred Davis is a competent pass catcher. Kellen Davis is not. 4.25 isn't a bad price tag for Keller on a one year, it's basically a Landry deal for a guy who is capable of putting up a strong season. It's possible that Davis' injury knocks his price to the 3 million range considering the mediocre dollars FAs are getting this year, in which case the Jets are looking at a similar quality of player for less.

 

 Then again you seem to only use stats you want to use and dismiss everything else.  

Like Fred Davis. He  had that one good year with 59 receptions and 800 yards receiving.  

The rest of the guys career he's averaged about 25 catches and 300 yards.  

 

His average is better than Kellen Davis' best.

 

You can say he would have had another good year last year, but that's all you can assume, there are no hard facts to back that up.

 

 

He was averaging the same YPC (13.5) as he did in 2011, and was on a pace for similar yardage. 

 

I don't know why Dustin Keller is now in this conversation. Fred is much closer to Keller than Kellen Davis is. 

 

 I meant to say Woodson is the better receiver not McKnight.

 

 

Goodson, and I know. 

[pedro55]

1. One more time than McKnight has.

 

2. 4.4 YPC is pretty good. He was a top 50 RB that year in a league where the majority try to carry at least two competent guys. 

 

3. Goodson is better than McKnight.

 

4. McKnight seems to be a better pass catcher based on what? How large is his advantage in KRs in the grand scheme of things, particularly since Goodson is the better offensive player?

 

t's 

 

91 1995

for Goodson in KR yards vs:

 

 

76 2205 2

for McKnight. 

 

Keep in mind that the Jets pretty consistently do well in kick returns going back to pre-McKnight years.

 

5. McKnight returns punts in the sense that they had to throw a body out there. Punt returns have been a weakness over the past couple years here. The team needs someone who can return punts. McKnight's returned 7 in his career, none last year. 

 

 Again you use stats without substance.  If you were using stats to back things up, you'd be laughed out of the building.   

Goodson had one year returning the ball.  Great for him.  Some would call that a fluke.   So he had over 1000 return yards in 2010.  What has he done before and after? 352 yards, 250 yards, 359 yards.   In statistics you don't just take the one number and ignore everything else.   

 

And you've done the same thing with his rushing stats.  He had one good season by his own standards in college  and he's had one good year by Goodson's standards in the NFL.   Dismissing the fact he's played in the NFL since 2009  and accumulated a grand total of 160 rushes tells you a lot about who he is as a running back.    

 

 Lendale White was a backup for Chris Johnson a few years back.  He still had 200 rushes and 15 TDs. And that's as a backup running back.  And we all know how much Chris Johnson loves his backup running backs.     Shonne Greene was a backup to Thomas Jones a few years back.  Michael Turner was a backup to LT a few years back.     Those guys are backup running backs.    A guy who has 160 total carries in 4 professional years as an NFL running back isn't even a backup.  He's a guy who nobody thinks can play.

 

  Great some guy who had 1 year out of 4 with backup numbers is some kind of buy cheap metric?  Makes no sense.  He's proven that he can't even earn a few touches a game in the NFL.  That's what we know.   Just showing examples from one year out of 4 is poor data analysis.

 

 We can all harp on Goodson. Who cares.  The guy is cheap. If he has 800 yards rushing it's a positive.   Everybody knows it's a cheap move based on money.   If he sucks, nobody cares. If he gives them anything, it's a plus.   It's not a buy low kind of deal. It's a guy who makes just above the practice squad getting a chance to play kind of move.  Whether it works out or not is debatable.   The A's of yesteryear still wanted to make the playoffs and win.  The Jets this year could go 4-12 and nobody would question any of the moves.

[SenorGato]

Goodson had one year returning the ball.  Great for him.  Some would call that a fluke.   So he had over 1000 return yards in 2010.  What has he done before and after? 352 yards, 250 yards, 359 yards.   In statistics you don't just take the one number and ignore everything else.   

 

He's returned kicks every year of his career. That is not one number. He averaged 22 yards per return in every year but his rookie season. 

 

You are not good at statistics man. I really want to mean that in the nicest way possible because you're earnest and eager and sh*t, but man...this post is a humdinger. 

 

And you've done the same thing with his rushing stats.  He had one good season by his own standards in college  and he's had one good year by Goodson's standards in the NFL.   Dismissing the fact he's played in the NFL since 2009  and accumulated a grand total of 160 rushes tells you a lot about who he is as a running back.    

 

Yes, a backup RB is who he is as a RB. He was backing up not one but two starting caliber RBs in Carolina with Stewart/Williams. The Raiders ran the ball less than all but four other teams in the league, and McFadden got almost 60% of them. He and Reece got the most touches in the backfield and after that is Goodson. Goodson averaged 12 yards a reception last year, more than any other RB on their roster or the Jets' roster. He had the highest yards per carry of all the RBs on the Raiders last year and did the same in 2010 for the Panthers between the three RBs. 

 

Those sound like your standards btw. He put up 972 YFS, 1072 YFS, and 792 YFS in his three years at A&M, and has put up 1246 yards in 219 NFL offensive touches with 4 TDs. Nothing spectacular, but definitely productive. 

 

Lendale White was a backup for Chris Johnson a few years back.  He still had 200 rushes and 15 TDs. And that's as a backup running back.  And we all know how much Chris Johnson loves his backup running backs.

 Shonne Greene was a backup to Thomas Jones a few years back.  Michael Turner was a backup to LT a few years back.     Those guys are backup running backs.  

 

 

 

Seriously....I'm not even trying to knock you since you really do seem to be an earnest fellow...read that again and try not to laugh. It's absurd but it's perfectly true - when those guys were backup RBs they were backup RBs. 

 

 

  Great some guy who had 1 year out of 4 with backup numbers is some kind of buy cheap metric?  Makes no sense.  He's proven that he can't even earn a few touches a game in the NFL.  That's what we know.   Just showing examples from one year out of 4 is poor data analysis.

 

If this is true of Goodson then I have no idea why you're questioning him over McKnight. Not that this is true about Goodson ayway. No one is showing you one year out of four, you just keep saying one year out of four. Seriously man...****....Are you reading what I'm writing? 

[SenorGato]

Everybody knows it's a cheap move based on money.

 

Oh stop it already. Again, if this was true why wasn't Kellen Davis signed immediately? You've never answered this question. The answer is obvious, but it kills whatever point you think you're making. 

 

 It's not a buy low kind of deal.

 

Meh, fair enough. It's not a bad price either, and certainly an upgrade to the RB group the Jets have. 

 

Oh, and the Jets did not land him because he was cheap:

 

Mike Goodson chose the Jets over the Bengals as a free agent because of the fit, he said, and a large part of that was Gang Green’s new offense.

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2013/03/mike-goodson-feels-suited-for-new-west-coast-offense

 

He picked them given a choice. So either the Jets outbid the Bengals or he genuinely thinks he will benefit from being here. 

[T0mShane]

Did Gato admit that the Jets roster sucks again?

[SenorGato]

Did Gato admit that the Jets roster sucks again?

 

Mediocre was the word, and mediocre can do just fine in a given season in the NFL. 

[T0mShane]

Mediocre was the word, and mediocre can do just fine in a given season in the NFL.

I am inside your mind, controlling your thoughts. Soon, you will listen to Tegan and Sara and like it.

[SenorGato]

I already listen to Tegan and Sara. 

[T0mShane]

I already listen to Tegan and Sara.

OMG ME TOO

[SenorGato]

OMG ME TOO

 

I think they're like really deep and sh*t. 

[T0mShane]

I think they're like really deep and sh*t.

Lyrics, baby. Heartthrob is pretty awesome.

[SenorGato]

Lyrics, baby. Heartthrob is pretty awesome.

 

Specifics...I didn't expect specifics. 

[Vudu]

Is he healthy?

[Gastineau Lives]

 Again you use stats without substance.  If you were using stats to back things up, you'd be laughed out of the building.   

Goodson had one year returning the ball.  Great for him.  Some would call that a fluke.   So he had over 1000 return yards in 2010.  What has he done before and after? 352 yards, 250 yards, 359 yards.   In statistics you don't just take the one number and ignore everything else.   

 

And you've done the same thing with his rushing stats.  He had one good season by his own standards in college  and he's had one good year by Goodson's standards in the NFL.   Dismissing the fact he's played in the NFL since 2009  and accumulated a grand total of 160 rushes tells you a lot about who he is as a running back.    

 

 Lendale White was a backup for Chris Johnson a few years back.  He still had 200 rushes and 15 TDs. And that's as a backup running back.  And we all know how much Chris Johnson loves his backup running backs.     Shonne Greene was a backup to Thomas Jones a few years back.  Michael Turner was a backup to LT a few years back.     Those guys are backup running backs.    A guy who has 160 total carries in 4 professional years as an NFL running back isn't even a backup.  He's a guy who nobody thinks can play.

 

  Great some guy who had 1 year out of 4 with backup numbers is some kind of buy cheap metric?  Makes no sense.  He's proven that he can't even earn a few touches a game in the NFL.  That's what we know.   Just showing examples from one year out of 4 is poor data analysis.

 

 We can all harp on Goodson. Who cares.  The guy is cheap. If he has 800 yards rushing it's a positive.   Everybody knows it's a cheap move based on money.   If he sucks, nobody cares. If he gives them anything, it's a plus.   It's not a buy low kind of deal. It's a guy who makes just above the practice squad getting a chance to play kind of move.  Whether it works out or not is debatable.   The A's of yesteryear still wanted to make the playoffs and win.  The Jets this year could go 4-12 and nobody would question any of the moves.

 

You cannot compare their careers at all. Goodson was on a team for three years with two high draft picks in DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart. He played one year as McFadden's backup and missed five games with a high-ankle sprain. To say that no one has believed in him enough is true but not true. What you are essentially saying is that no one believed in him enough to start him or give him a good share of carries instead of DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart or Darren McFadden. Not exactly an indictment, I would say.

[j4jets]

You don't tank a season for a handful of million dollars to roll-over in cap relief. That's assanine.  You don't tank period.  And presumably, a lot of those players drawing a big cap hit like Holmes, Sanchez etc. will be replaced by cheaper draft picks last year or this coming draft.  

 

I probably should have worded my response differently. Jets will have $2-3mil of carryover to 2014 no matter what they do. They have to have that amount for in season reserve and it will get carried over unless of course we are hit by a storm of injuries. A GM that takes over a 6-10 team in cap hell, is not expected to win more than last year.To me, going 4-12 is no worse than 6-10.

[Il Mostro]

Lyrics, baby. Heartthrob is pretty awesome.

 

Tell the truth, Tom.  You like them because they are incestuous lesbians.

[T0mShane]

Tell the truth, Tom. You like them because they are incestuous lesbians.

Every lesbian gets extra credit in my world.

[SenorGato]

They're incestuous lesbians? That might be the single hottest pair of words in the English language.

[SenorGato]

No theyre not. Bastards.