Sperm Edwards Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 well mr idzik we already found out you can't win with cap space. Those are the only 2 alternatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Those are the only 2 alternatives? mo gets tagged, brick gets a pay cut or they draft a guy and let him play out his deal. I just don't see either guy getting replaced this off season and the jets actually improving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 mo gets tagged, brick gets a pay cut or they draft a guy and let him play out his deal. I just don't see either guy getting replaced this off season and the jets actually improving You see the Jets improving with those two eating up $11M more cap space than last year, as Brick gets worse again and Wilkerson unlikely to match 2015's numbers, with a much harder schedule? Mo's a terrific player who I don't want to lose, but the team can't keep tying up 2-3 starters' dollars on 1 player unless they're crazy-unique/irreplaceable/all-world types (and Mo isn't). They're already doing it with Revis, and are locked into that deal. They can't also do it with both Mo and Ferguson. Seriously, they'd be looking at $45M tied up on those 3. Draft a guy and bring in someone who might contribute (with a possibility of starting part or all of the year). Jake Long's a FA again after getting a year rest, plus I'd bring in someone else (don't yet know who will be available) and take one in the draft. But assuming they bring Fitz back, they don't need a pure pass blocker (whose skills are only so-so now in that regard) who's an outright liability in the ground game AND opposite him is that stiff Giacomini. Bring in a warm body or three and Thunderdome it. Brick isn't going to take enough of a pay cut to make a difference, unless you think he'll drop his 2016 compensation from $9M to $3M. Somehow I doubt he'll do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 You see the Jets improving with those two eating up $11M more cap space than last year, as Brick gets worse again and Wilkerson unlikely to match 2015's numbers, with a much harder schedule? Mo's a terrific player who I don't want to lose, but the team can't keep tying up 2-3 starters' dollars on 1 player unless they're crazy-unique/irreplaceable/all-world types (and Mo isn't). They're already doing it with Revis, and are locked into that deal. They can't also do it with both Mo and Ferguson. Seriously, they'd be looking at $45M tied up on those 3. Draft a guy and bring in someone who might contribute (with a possibility of starting part or all of the year). Jake Long's a FA again after getting a year rest, plus I'd bring in someone else (don't yet know who will be available) and take one in the draft. But assuming they bring Fitz back, they don't need a pure pass blocker (whose skills are only so-so now in that regard) who's an outright liability in the ground game AND opposite him is that stiff Giacomini. Bring in a warm body or three and Thunderdome it. Brick isn't going to take enough of a pay cut to make a difference, unless you think he'll drop his 2016 compensation from $9M to $3M. Somehow I doubt he'll do that. the NFL comes down to passer rating differential. the 3 most important players in that formula are; QB, Pass Rusher and LT since I don't see a great QB coming over next season, they really need to hold onto their best pass rusher and a good pass blocking LT pass rush and pass protection are everything everything else is noise giving up proven productive durable reliable players for draft picks is not the approach I would take I am not interested in a warm body unless it comes from the 100,000 post thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 the NFL comes down to passer rating differential. the 3 most important players in that formula are; QB, Pass Rusher and LT since I don't see a great QB coming over next season, they really need to hold onto their best pass rusher and a good pass blocking LT pass rush and pass protection are everything everything else is noise giving up proven productive durable reliable players for draft picks is not the approach I would take I am not interested in a warm body unless it comes from the 100,00 post thread Mo is a coverage sack pass rusher who racked up sacks against the league's worst OLs. You're making it sound like QBs have limited time to throw because of Mo, and that is clearly not the case if you watch games (which I know you do). He's nothing like you what you saw Denver do to Brady. It sucks, because I do like him and think he's a hell of a player, but he's too easily taken out of a game by uncalled holding. Brick is no longer an above average pass protector and is a sh*tty run blocker. And he's going to be even worse next year. The reality is we didn't see just how much more he'd regressed because Fitz forces the ball out in like 1.5 seconds or less. He had a pretty bad season and we are in need of an upgrade. That it comes with upwards of $10M+ in cap savings for the 2016 season makes it that much more of a no-brainer. He isn't half the player he once was, so you are incorrectly labeling him as "productive" IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Mo is a coverage sack pass rusher who racked up sacks against the league's worst OLs. You're making it sound like QBs have limited time to throw because of Mo, and that is clearly not the case if you watch games (which I know you do). He's nothing like you what you saw Denver do to Brady. It sucks, because I do like him and think he's a hell of a player, but he's too easily taken out of a game by uncalled holding. Brick is no longer an above average pass protector and is a sh*tty run blocker. And he's going to be even worse next year. The reality is we didn't see just how much more he'd regressed because Fitz forces the ball out in like 1.5 seconds or less. He had a pretty bad season and we are in need of an upgrade. That it comes with upwards of $10M+ in cap savings for the 2016 season makes it that much more of a no-brainer. He isn't half the player he once was, so you are incorrectly labeling him as "productive" IMO. nope nope nope your plan is cheap warm bodies mr idzik you can spin it all you want the jets are not getting better with jags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 nope nope nope your plan is cheap warm bodies mr idzik you can spin it all you want the jets are not getting better with jags Oh calm yourself. My plan would be to make attempts to improve at LT. That will not happen with Ferguson. He's a below average LT who is and has been getting worse every year. The lousy season he just had (in a contract-year, of sorts, against a lot of dumpy competition) is the best he will ever be for the rest of his career. If we could replace him with a similarly-priced LT who is still good, I am all for it. The purpose of cap savings is to use it to improve the team, not to have savings for the sake of savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Oh calm yourself. My plan would be to make attempts to improve at LT. That will not happen with Ferguson. He's a below average LT who is and has been getting worse every year. The lousy season he just had (in a contract-year, of sorts, against a lot of dumpy competition) is the best he will ever be for the rest of his career. If we could replace him with a similarly-priced LT who is still good, I am all for it. The purpose of cap savings is to use it to improve the team, not to have savings for the sake of savings. your delta tau chi nickname is now cheap warm bodies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 your delta tau chi nickname is now cheap warm bodies Again, Ferguson's replacement doesn't have to be cheap. There are just no high-priced LT's in FA this year that I'd throw big money at. If you can identify one I'm all ears. I'd go that interim-route if that's what's available because I ideally prefer to draft another LT. However I don't want to pigeonhole the team into a forced LT selection in round 1. If that's the pick I'm fine with that. But if that value presents itself we'd certainly pass up on it if we've already locked ourselves into Ferguson again. Like we did last season. Like we'll do again this season, and the season after that. At some point, unless we get lucky, we have to draft someone in the top few rounds (at a minimum) to replace him or sign a FA to replace him. That will be put off as long as he's here gobbling up the cap space of a top 3 LT in his prime. A meh pass blocker who is a horrible run blocker is a poor fit for the 2016 Jets with Fitzpatrick, and at a $14M cap hit for his crappy play he represents poor allocation of the resources a team is permitted to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 You see the Jets improving with those two eating up $11M more cap space than last year, as Brick gets worse again and Wilkerson unlikely to match 2015's numbers, with a much harder schedule? Mo's a terrific player who I don't want to lose, but the team can't keep tying up 2-3 starters' dollars on 1 player unless they're crazy-unique/irreplaceable/all-world types (and Mo isn't). They're already doing it with Revis, and are locked into that deal. They can't also do it with both Mo and Ferguson. Seriously, they'd be looking at $45M tied up on those 3. Draft a guy and bring in someone who might contribute (with a possibility of starting part or all of the year). Jake Long's a FA again after getting a year rest, plus I'd bring in someone else (don't yet know who will be available) and take one in the draft. But assuming they bring Fitz back, they don't need a pure pass blocker (whose skills are only so-so now in that regard) who's an outright liability in the ground game AND opposite him is that stiff Giacomini. Bring in a warm body or three and Thunderdome it. Brick isn't going to take enough of a pay cut to make a difference, unless you think he'll drop his 2016 compensation from $9M to $3M. Somehow I doubt he'll do that. trade Wilk to the Browns for Joe Thomas or to the 49ers for the rights to Anthony Davis who is now saying he wants to come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 hell no. We need dual-threat backs in this offense. Ridley was a terrible fit for the Gailey offense. he's a terrible fit for any offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 trade Wilk to the Browns for Joe Thomas or to the 49ers for the rights to Anthony Davis who is now saying he wants to come back Here's my take on Thomas (good and bad): It's a tough call for a GM because there would be backlash because of perception: that we are trading a top player to fill a position already filled. Or more to the point, to only gain a year of youth and a little better play from Ferguson to Thomas. It will also effectively look like we're swapping Mo and Brick for Thomas. The reality is, of course, much different. They would be dramatically upgrading at LT. Brick just isn't good anymore as a whole package, and he no longer has the excuse of trash playing next to him. Problem: would be almost no cap change at LT this year (after Brick's $5M cap acceleration). Next year there would also be little change over restructuring Ferguson this year. On balance it would add to the cap at LT. I wouldn't care, but that's what would be written up about it. In reality it would save a lot more than that overall: There would be an average savings of $12-15M/year for Mo, depending on what his true demands are. If I'm him, I'm not settling for less after the team held me to my rookie contract terms to the very end instead of tearing it up early: $1.2M in 2014 and $7M in 2015 (with no long term injury guarantees if his career ended). Further, the team wouldn't need to burn a #1 or #2 pick on a left tackle prospect, who would always come with question marks anyway even if a suitable player presented value at our pick. So despite how it would look on the surface to some, they truly net gain: a #1 or #2 pick to use on another position, and around $15M/year in cap space above that to use elsewhere on 1-2 players (if it's 1 player he'll be a monster), and vastly better play at left tackle for at least a few seasons. Despite all that, honestly I'd prefer to go with a different position for trading Mo. If one presumes those players are all equally valued, say it's a late #1 give or take. Personally if I'm burning a high draft pick on an offensive lineman, I want at least the theoretical upside that he's going to play at a high level for more than 5 seasons. It's possible with Thomas, but one must realistically expect the next 5 seasons could/would be the 5 worst of his career (if he even lasts that long), and the fact is he's only under contract for 3 more seasons. The other reality is despite perception around the league, left tackle isn't as crucial to the Jets in the upcoming season if they bring back Fitz and guarantee him the job all season long (possibly next season as well). He simply isn't a QB who sits back in the pocket, waiting for a play to develop as he surveys the field. It's zip zip zip. Drop back, and within 2 seconds the ball is out. You just don't need a top tier pass blocking LT for that (and certainly don't need so much allocated to Ferguson). Both NE and Denver got as far as they did with an outright backup LT. I don't recommend that as the desired way to fill the position long term, but allocating $14M of cap space for Ferguson is mindless. No serious winner does such a thing. Also I don't know if Cleveland would even do it. Farmer is gone, but his demand 2 months ago was Denver's #1 pick in 2016 and #2 pick in 2017. Granted they didn't get it, as Denver walked away, but Mo isn't going to carry near that type of trade value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 the NFL comes down to passer rating differential. the 3 most important players in that formula are; QB, Pass Rusher and LT since I don't see a great QB coming over next season, they really need to hold onto their best pass rusher and a good pass blocking LT pass rush and pass protection are everything everything else is noise giving up proven productive durable reliable players for draft picks is not the approach I would take I am not interested in a warm body unless it comes from the 100,000 post thread you are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY oversimplifying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 No we need to upgrade the position agreed !.. i'm hopin' for Lamar Miller cheers ~ ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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