Notice the serene feeling over Florham Park.....

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm being completely honest here, because I don't read your content as often as you think I do, but I thought that "Rex teams don't quit, he's a great coach, etc" was one of the themes in the rants you go on. If I'm mistaken, I take it back. I'm probably on to something, but it's not worth slap-fighting over. If I went to the effort of finding an example,  you'd deflect and start in about reading comprehension. I just don't have energy for that. 

So, it's all good, nevermind that part.

You literally just said nobody gave us anything in 2009 (see: getting a break) in this thread though... So there's that. Again, doesn't matter that much. Not enough for a tirade at least.

I like the new you by the way.  yes, we can confuse posters from time to time, I do it too.

 

Our guys quit in 2011 under Rex but they fought the other down years.  I don't think all of the Bills quit but key guys did and that team was ready to fold if we just came out strong.

 

as far as saying nobody gave us anything in 2009 I don't believe anything was given to us, we got a break and took advantage.  we have no idea how that Indy game plays out if they keep starters in.  does Indy likely win? sure but we don't know.  We were down 5 midway through the 3rd qtr, we were in that game.  An example I always use was imagine the div rd at SD was played under the same circumstances.  we trailed that game by 4 at the same point.  if they take out the starters everyone would say we never could have won but this was a playoff game and everyone stayed in and we won.

Either way good teams take advantage of breaks, last year we got a break w/ baltimore beating Pitt and we couldn't take advantage.  In 1993 we watched Miami lose to New England in week 18 earlier in the day then we faced Oiler backups needing to win to get to playoffs and we got killed.  In 2004 Buffalo faced Pitt backups at home in a game they needed to win to get in and they lost.  You still have to go out and play, take advantage of the situation.  In 2008 we faced some awful QBs and teams late in the year and we couldn't take advantage.

 

 

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

2009 I don't believe anything was given to us, we got a break and took advantage

I think we're getting into semantics.

"given a break" or "got a break" = same thing. Nobody would argue that we didn't take advantage and play some great post-season games.

Anyway, I understand your explanation, but ultimately we're not saying much different here... except in my case, I snap it into the narrative that Rex was a mess and got a break, and in your case you use to support the sentiment that he wasn't a mess, got a break, and took advantage. So, it's less about being given a break, and more about disagreeing about Rex's credibility... in which case, neither of us is going to convince the other the change position. 

I think he was a putz. You don't. 

No problem.

BTW... I'm the same guy who posts here daily, this isn't a new me. I'm just not being a hypocrite. I've expressed discontent with the overwhelming bickering content over the past couple months, so contributing more of it would be silly at this point. For a while, I poured gas on the fire to see if I could help it come to a head, and maybe then normalize... not sure that was a good strategy, so yea... I'm excited about this team, I'm just going to stick to that for a bit.

[ScarletKnight89]

18 hours ago, nyjunc said:

teams like that just need a few plays to go against them and they are ready for the offseason.  we gave them life, they had key guys not playing, Mario Williams had quit among others and we gave them life.

 

 

anyway, my point is not to bash Bowles or go back to last year.  I really like Bowles but there are different styles you can win w/, we won big early w/ rex then faded his final few years.  Let's hope we win big w/ Bowles soon.

Yeah, I'm sure if the Jets jumped up 13-0 like the Bills did the game would have been much different. But they didn't. I can't blame the Jets for not blowing out a division rival in their building when that team knows the Jets have everything to play for. Everyone knew that was going to be a tough game. The Bills were not pushovers. They finished 8-8 and were 9-7 the year before. It wasn't like they were playing the Dallas team they played 2 weeks earlier. The Bills could play, and they were division rivals. Division games are not easy regardless of the record. The teams know each other so well. And they've already seem each other once before in that very season.

 

Rex's philosophy only works when you win though. That's my point. He became a joke after the 2011 season when he predicted a SB and the team went 8-8. He became the story more than the team. It was always about Rex, even when he wasn't trying to be the story the media was so attached to him that they would make any little thing a big thing to get Rex headlines in the papers, on the radio, and on TV. Bowles style isn't going to piss people off. He's not to quiet like Mangini or to over the top like Rex. It's all based on results though. If Bowles doesn't win he'll be fired in a few years as well. That never changes. I just think Bowles got off to a good start. Last year was a missed opportunity but going as far as calling it a failure doesn't make sense to me.

I just like Bowles' approach and appreciate a little more after the Rex years. I didn't hate Rex at all. But his style only works during the good times.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I think we're getting into semantics.

"given a break" or "got a break" = same thing. Nobody would argue that we didn't take advantage and play some great post-season games.

Anyway, I understand your explanation, but ultimately we're not saying much different here... except in my case, I snap it into the narrative that Rex was a mess and got a break, and in your case you use to support the sentiment that he wasn't a mess, got a break, and took advantage. So, it's less about being given a break, and more about disagreeing about Rex's credibility... in which case, neither of us is going to convince the other the change position. 

I think he was a putz. You don't. 

No problem.

BTW... I'm the same guy who posts here daily, this isn't a new me. I'm just not being a hypocrite. I've expressed discontent with the overwhelming bickering content over the past couple months, so contributing more of it would be silly at this point. For a while, I poured gas on the fire to see if I could help it come to a head, and maybe then normalize... not sure that was a good strategy, so yea... I'm excited about this team, I'm just going to stick to that for a bit.

I have no problem going back and forth, I actually like disagreements and having healthy debates but sometimes we all go over the edge and that part I am not a fan of.

 

as far as Rex, I think he's a good Hc, I think he did good things for us and some not so good things but when he had talent his teams played well.  either way we are all entitled to our opinions I just hate seeing people connected w/ our franchise that had success being bashed.  we have very little success to look back on and I think we should appreciate those that helped us more than we do.

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yeah, I'm sure if the Jets jumped up 13-0 like the Bills did the game would have been much different. But they didn't. I can't blame the Jets for not blowing out a division rival in their building when that team knows the Jets have everything to play for. Everyone knew that was going to be a tough game. The Bills were not pushovers. They finished 8-8 and were 9-7 the year before. It wasn't like they were playing the Dallas team they played 2 weeks earlier. The Bills could play, and they were division rivals. Division games are not easy regardless of the record. The teams know each other so well. And they've already seem each other once before in that very season.

 

Rex's philosophy only works when you win though. That's my point. He became a joke after the 2011 season when he predicted a SB and the team went 8-8. He became the story more than the team. It was always about Rex, even when he wasn't trying to be the story the media was so attached to him that they would make any little thing a big thing to get Rex headlines in the papers, on the radio, and on TV. Bowles style isn't going to piss people off. He's not to quiet like Mangini or to over the top like Rex. It's all based on results though. If Bowles doesn't win he'll be fired in a few years as well. That never changes. I just think Bowles got off to a good start. Last year was a missed opportunity but going as far as calling it a failure doesn't make sense to me.

I just like Bowles' approach and appreciate a little more after the Rex years. I didn't hate Rex at all. But his style only works during the good times.

the Dallas team they played two weeks earlier they barely eeked out a win against a 34d/4th string QB.

 

Rex used to try to deflect attention and pressure off his team and on to him.  you have to see through the bluster.  was it time to go? sure but I am not fan of bashing him for his time here and again I really like Bowles but if he gets fired in 3 years we'll see the same bashing of him.  I hate the endless cycle. 

[ScarletKnight89]

18 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I understand that but we had THREE possessions before Buffalo scored and we punted on all 3 and on the punt that set up the first Buf TD we punted from our EZ.

 

Our D STUNK against Buffalo, it was a team effort led by Bowles.  they weren't ready to play.

 

the sched was very weak, we should have won more than 10 and been in the playoffs.

they didn't appear to make many adjustments on D, the team looked lifeless from the start, the wind only affected us and not Buffalo- that's all on coaching.

They could have won more games I agree. But they didn't. Because the Jets weren't as good as I think you think they were. Fitz is a very average QB, I like him, and the Jets proved you can win with him, but he's average at the position. It's just better than what we've had in recent years. We also had (and still do) have some holes on defense. Revis isn't the same player he once was. Hopkins killed him in Houston which cost us that game. Elite receivers can beat him now if he's going to be out on an island with them. Revis is still very good, he's just not the same player he was in his first tour with the Jets. Cromartie was shot, he looked awful. I'll get on Bowles for sticking with him for to long last season. But who else was there? Marcus Williams looked good in limited snaps. The Jets best hope in the secondary going forward is for Milliner to step up this year and be that other CB across the field from Revis.

 

How is the wind affecting the players on coaching? To me that's on the players.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

They could have won more games I agree. But they didn't. Because the Jets weren't as good as I think you think they were. Fitz is a very average QB, I like him, and the Jets proved you can win with him, but he's average at the position. It's just better than what we've had in recent years. We also had (and still do) have some holes on defense. Revis isn't the same player he once was. Hopkins killed him in Houston which cost us that game. Elite receivers can beat him now if he's going to be out on an island with them. Revis is still very good, he's just not the same player he was in his first tour with the Jets. Cromartie was shot, he looked awful. I'll get on Bowles for sticking with him for to long last season. But who else was there? Marcus Williams looked good in limited snaps. The Jets best hope in the secondary going forward is for Milliner to step up this year and be that other CB across the field from Revis.

 

How is the wind affecting the players on coaching? To me that's on the players.

Revis was still a top corner and we didn't lose b/c he got burned one time.  we couldn't do anything on offense that day.  we had playoff talent w/ a weak schedule, we should have been a playoff team.  Cro was actually got for a good portion of the season after a slow start.

 

the wind affected our entire team and didn't affect Buffalo, we didn't have the right mindset entering that game.

[ScarletKnight89]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I have no problem going back and forth, I actually like disagreements and having healthy debates but sometimes we all go over the edge and that part I am not a fan of.

 

as far as Rex, I think he's a good Hc, I think he did good things for us and some not so good things but when he had talent his teams played well.  either way we are all entitled to our opinions I just hate seeing people connected w/ our franchise that had success being bashed.  we have very little success to look back on and I think we should appreciate those that helped us more than we do.

the Dallas team they played two weeks earlier they barely eeked out a win against a 34d/4th string QB.

 

Rex used to try to deflect attention and pressure off his team and on to him.  you have to see through the bluster.  was it time to go? sure but I am not fan of bashing him for his time here and again I really like Bowles but if he gets fired in 3 years we'll see the same bashing of him.  I hate the endless cycle. 

I know what they did against Dallas. They were lucky to survive that game. But my point was that the Bills weren't dead like that Dallas team was. The Bills were much better than that. And they know the Jets way better than that. Had the Jets lost to Dallas the final week of the season and not made the playoffs because of it I think you would have a much better argument.

I know what Rex was trying to do. But it didn't work. It created attention in some way revolving around the Jets that wasn't needed.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Revis was still a top corner and we didn't lose b/c he got burned one time.  we couldn't do anything on offense that day.  we had playoff talent w/ a weak schedule, we should have been a playoff team.  Cro was actually got for a good portion of the season after a slow start.

 

the wind affected our entire team and didn't affect Buffalo, we didn't have the right mindset entering that game.

I don't understand how you know that the Jets didn't have the right mindset. Fitz has a bad arm that's not going to cut through the wind. It is what it is. That's one reason why Fitz doesn't get A-rod or Brady money. To me it comes down to execution. Revis got beat a lot last season. Watkins was killing him too. The Jet corners weren't that good, Hopkins burned us that day. It was time to treat Revis like a good corner who once was an all time great at the position. He's not at that level anymore. It least he wasn't last year. He needs help against the top receivers. Cro had a couple of good stretches but really declined as an overall player last year, hence why he doesn't have a job in the NFL anymore. Teams know he is done, and he showed them that last year with his play. Had he played well, he would be employed.

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I don't understand how you know that the Jets didn't have the right mindset. Fitz has a bad arm that's not going to cut through the wind. It is what it is. That's one reason why Fitz doesn't get A-rod or Brady money. To me it comes down to execution. Revis got beat a lot last season. Watkins was killing him too. The Jet corners weren't that good, Hopkins burned us that day. It was time to treat Revis like a good corner who once was an all time great at the position. He's not at that level anymore. It least he wasn't last year. He needs help against the top receivers. Cro had a couple of good stretches but really declined as an overall player last year, hence why he doesn't have a job in the NFL anymore. Teams know he is done, and he showed them that last year with his play. Had he played well, he would be employed.

it was obvious they didn't have the right mindset, Fitz was fine later in the game.  why couldn't he come out like that? and it wasn't just him, the team looked spooked by the wind.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

it was obvious they didn't have the right mindset, Fitz was fine later in the game.  why couldn't he come out like that? and it wasn't just him, the team looked spooked by the wind.

What your describing happens all the time to hundreds of players in professional sports. Fitz isn't an elite player. It took him a while to settle in unfortunately. He's looked like that plenty of times before.

And I still don't see how the Jets looked spooked by the wind.

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

What your describing happens all the time to hundreds of players in professional sports. Fitz isn't an elite player. It took him a while to settle in unfortunately. He's looked like that plenty of times before.

And I still don't see how the Jets looked spooked by the wind.

couldn't happen that day in the biggest game in the lives of Fitz and Marshall.  Marshall played great trying to will us to the playoffs, Fitz and others wouldn't let him.

 

the Jets came out looking unprepared as a team, one of the ways they looked unprepared was the way they dealt w/ the wind.  

[ScarletKnight89]

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

couldn't happen that day in the biggest game in the lives of Fitz and Marshall.  Marshall played great trying to will us to the playoffs, Fitz and others wouldn't let him.

 

the Jets came out looking unprepared as a team, one of the ways they looked unprepared was the way they dealt w/ the wind.  

It couldn't, but it did. Because Fitz is who he is. Marshall is one of the best receivers in the league, a future hall of famer, and will probably go down as an all time great at the position if he decides to play in the league going forward and not leave early for TV. You're comparing apples to oranges. Marshall is 10 times the player Fitz is. That's not even a remotely close comparison.

Fitzpatrick is an average QB playing in the system he is most comfortable in. He's quality. That's it. Don't expect more out of him than you're probably going to get. Fitz isn't going to win a lot of games for the Jets by himself, and he will be hindered by the weather from time to time.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

It couldn't, but it did. Because Fitz is who he is. Marshall is one of the best receivers in the league, a future hall of famer, and will probably go down as an all time great at the position if he decides to play in the league going forward and not leave early for TV. You're comparing apples to oranges. Marshall is 10 times the player Fitz is. That's not even a remotely close comparison.

Fitzpatrick is an average QB playing in the system he is most comfortable in. He's quality. That's it. Don't expect more out of him than you're probably going to get. Fitz isn't going to win a lot of games for the Jets by himself, and he will be hindered by the weather from time to time.

he didn't need to be Tom Brady, he just needed to be 2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick and he wasn't.  we didn't need Fitz to carry us, just play a role which he failed to do that day.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he didn't need to be Tom Brady, he just needed to be 2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick and he wasn't.  we didn't need Fitz to carry us, just play a role which he failed to do that day.

If we're being honest here, the role of Ryan Fitzpatrick "game manager" cannot be played in a scenario where we need Ryan Fitzpatrick "come from behind win". 

The defensive issues we had, not being able to get off the field, not being able to stop a 1-man offense... led to circumstances where the Jets needed to press in the end, and that's not the role that Fitz succeeds in. So, yes, he screwed the pooch, but cause and effect makes it a team loss.

It was teh most uninspired game they played all year, except the Raiders game maybe.

All new regime. All new season... and the same old Jets nagging issues of flying out west to play the Raiders, and the obligatory hangover loss after beating the Patriots ... still haunt us.

[ScarletKnight89]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he didn't need to be Tom Brady, he just needed to be 2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick and he wasn't.  we didn't need Fitz to carry us, just play a role which he failed to do that day.

And one of the reasons he really wasn't probably had something to do with the weather conditions. He didn't play well against Buffalo the first time he saw them either. As a matter of fact, I feel like he never played well against the Jets when he was on the opposition. I believe Rex actually has his number, he's a smart defensive minded coach going against an average QB with physical limitations in a poor weather environment for that QB. That wasn't an ideal situation for Fitz to be successful.

 

I wouldn't use that as an excuse if Fitz was a franchise QB in the mold of guys like Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, etc. But he isn't that guy. We know that. He's a journeyman.

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

If we're being honest here, the role of Ryan Fitzpatrick "game manager" cannot be played in a scenario where we need Ryan Fitzpatrick "come from behind win". 

The defensive issues we had, not being able to get off the field, not being able to stop a 1-man offense... led to circumstances where the Jets needed to press in the end, and that's not the role that Fitz succeeds in. So, yes, he screwed the pooch, but cause and effect makes it a team loss.

It was teh most uninspired game they played all year, except the Raiders game maybe.

All new regime. All new season... and the same old Jets nagging issues of flying out west to play the Raiders, and the obligatory hangover loss after beating the Patriots ... still haunt us.

we had to come from behind b/c he was terrible early in the game.  again we had 3 possessions before Buf scored, he coudn't even move the chains to put us in better punting position.

 

1st possession: began at NYJ 20, ended at NYJ 15

2nd: started at NYJ 10, ended at NYJ 25

3rd: started at NYJ 12, ended at NYJ 7

 

at the very least get a few 1st downs and punt close to midfield and change field position.

 

the D was brutal, it was a total team loss from the coaches to the players but that doesn't excuse Fitz for playing so poorly.

 

Rex won in Oakland

5 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

And one of the reasons he really wasn't probably had something to do with the weather conditions. He didn't play well against Buffalo the first time he saw them either. As a matter of fact, I feel like he never played well against the Jets when he was on the opposition. I believe Rex actually has his number, he's a smart defensive minded coach going against an average QB with physical limitations in a poor weather environment for that QB. That wasn't an ideal situation for Fitz to be successful.

 

I wouldn't use that as an excuse if Fitz was a franchise QB in the mold of guys like Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, etc. But he isn't that guy. We know that. He's a journeyman.

he has never played well against Rex defenses, that doesn't excuse his poor play.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

we had to come from behind b/c he was terrible early in the game.  again we had 3 possessions before Buf scored, he coudn't even move the chains to put us in better punting position.

 

1st possession: began at NYJ 20, ended at NYJ 15

2nd: started at NYJ 10, ended at NYJ 25

3rd: started at NYJ 12, ended at NYJ 7

 

at the very least get a few 1st downs and punt close to midfield and change field position.

 

the D was brutal, it was a total team loss from the coaches to the players but that doesn't excuse Fitz for playing so poorly.

 

Rex won in Oakland

he has never played well against Rex defenses, that doesn't excuse his poor play.

No it doesn't. But it is what it is. That's who he is. You're putting him on to high of a pedestal. He's an average QB. That's what we have at this point. He's more than capable of having games like that. he'll probably have some this year as well. That game was not setup for him to be successful given the coach who has his number, and the weather. It was going to be a tough battle for him, and he almost pulled it out despite his poor play. But he made a critical error when they were in FG range and he decided to try and force a pass to Decker in the end zone. Terrible mistake.

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we had to come from behind b/c he was terrible early in the game.

So was the defense. Buffalo had one player on the field worth a damn, and that guy ate us alive.

I am saying it's a team loss. Not excusing Fitz. Just saying, specific to your comment about him playing a role, that the role we want him playing is game manager... NOT come from behind and save our asses. He's not good at that. We knew that before week 17 last year.

That's all. I don't think we're disagreeing.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

No it doesn't. But it is what it is. That's who he is. You're putting him on to high of a pedestal. He's an average QB. That's what we have at this point. He's more than capable of having games like that. he'll probably have some this year as well. That game was not setup for him to be successful given the coach who has his number, and the weather. It was going to be a tough battle for him, and he almost pulled it out despite his poor play. But he made a critical error when they were in FG range and he decided to try and force a pass to Decker in the end zone. Terrible mistake.

it's not too high of a pedestal to ask him to play like he did in 2015.  he didn't do anything spectacular, he was surrounded w/ incredible talent and he got them the ball.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

it's not too high of a pedestal to ask him to play like he did in 2015.  he didn't do anything spectacular, he was surrounded w/ incredible talent and he got them the ball.

He got them the ball despite poor O-Line play. But how many times last year was he playing in poor conditions? Not many. Once again, he's a QB who can be hindered by those types of things because of his arm. That's why he was brought in to be the backup and only play if Geno couldn't grab hold of the job. The IK incident happened, and Fitz took full advantage of it.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

So was the defense. Buffalo had one player on the field worth a damn, and that guy ate us alive.

I am saying it's a team loss. Not excusing Fitz. Just saying, specific to your comment about him playing a role, that the role we want him playing is game manager... NOT come from behind and save our asses. He's not good at that. We knew that before week 17 last year.

That's all. I don't think we're disagreeing.

I have always said it was a total team loss from coaching to the players but that doesn't chaneg the fact Fitz was awful.

4 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

He got them the ball despite poor O-Line play. But how many times last year was he playing in poor conditions? Not many. Once again, he's a QB who can be hindered by those types of things because of his arm. That's why he was brought in to be the backup and only play if Geno couldn't grab hold of the job. The IK incident happened, and Fitz took full advantage of it.

find a way.

[ScarletKnight89]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I have always said it was a total team loss from coaching to the players but that doesn't chaneg the fact Fitz was awful.

find a way.

He tried, and he failed. It happens. It happens to QB's all the time. Especially average ones.

[Integrity28]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I have always said it was a total team loss from coaching to the players but that doesn't chaneg the fact Fitz was awful.

Yea, I don't disagree. 

All I'm talking about here is cause and effect. You talked about him playing a role, the role he plays best is "don't **** it up". When sh*t breaks down around him, and he is asked to play "bail us out" role, he fails more often than not. All I'm doing is expanding on the "awful" part. Not excusing, just stating what we should all know about him by now.

[ScarletKnight89]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yea, I don't disagree. 

All I'm talking about here is cause and effect. You talked about him playing a role, the role he plays best is "don't **** it up". When sh*t breaks down around him, and he is asked to play "bail us out" role, he fails more often than not. All I'm doing is expanding on the "awful" part. Not excusing, just stating what we should all know about him by now.

Exactly. When the team fell behind 13-0 it was going to be tough for Fitz to bring us back in that game. He's a game manager who had a good season last year with good receivers to throw the ball to. He's not going to save us in many games when the team breaks down around him and doesn't play well. It was a total team loss.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

ohhh it was the WRs who dropped balls, got it.  My mistake, Fitz was great

when do I constantly argue Rex teams don't quit?  when have I ever said we didn't get a break in 2009? it wasn't anything like the breaks in 2008 but of course we got a break and took advantage of it like good teams do.

 

mario Williams was a "leader" on that D and he flat out quit.  they had a ton of injuries w/ key guys not playing and all we needed to do was come out fast and we came out flat.  that's on coaching.

 

there aren't any contradictions that you haven't made up.

They were ridiculously easy passes (one was s shovel pass for Christ's sake!)...perhaps your memory fails you. Also, in the first two drives of the game, 1st downs were negated by Decker going out of bounds before making a reception and a drop by Marshall. Those factors, along with a shank punt put the team in a quick hole. Fitz didn't play well late, but he rallied the team to put them in position to take the lead  in the fourth quarter. With everything going wrong that day including virtually no running game, six or seven drops certainly didn''t help the cause. 

[nyjunc]

22 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Exactly. When the team fell behind 13-0 it was going to be tough for Fitz to bring us back in that game. He's a game manager who had a good season last year with good receivers to throw the ball to. He's not going to save us in many games when the team breaks down around him and doesn't play well. It was a total team loss.

except we were back in the game w/ a chance to take the lead so that excuse doesn't really fly.

[ScarletKnight89]

35 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

except we were back in the game w/ a chance to take the lead so that excuse doesn't really fly.

It does fly. He's Fitzpatrick. He made a terrible mistake and was bad in the game. Those things happen. But the team as a whole didn't play well. We never should have been down that much that early.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

It does fly. He's Fitzpatrick. He made a terrible mistake and was bad in the game. Those things happen. But the team as a whole didn't play well. We never should have been down that much that early.

if the QB plays better we aren't in that hole.

[Rexorcism]

Geno wouldve saved the day, NOT

[ScarletKnight89]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

if the QB plays better we aren't in that hole.

You can say the same thing about the defense, the punter, you can say it about a lot of players.