Ernie Adams -

[PantyHose&Furs]

Anyone else on this board interested in what this guys knows about this issue?

Daboll was mentioned by Walsh and he's in the commissioners office 48-hours later.

Adams has been mentioned throughout this controversy as someone who clearly has some level of knowledge of how the data was used and he hasn't been interviewed yet.

In my view he's someone who's participation in this issue needs to be investigated.

[Lil Bit Special]

Anyone else on this board interested in what this guys knows about this issue?

Daboll was mentioned by Walsh and he's in the commissioners office 48-hours later.

Adams has been mentioned throughout this controversy as someone who clearly has some level of knowledge of how the data was used and he hasn't been interviewed yet.

In my view he's someone who's participation in this issue needs to be investigated.

what new info will he tell us? That they broke down the tapes so the next time they played the jets they knew the signals? That they may have cheated during a game?

This isnt a criminal case. Its a league investigating itself. You will never know what was discussed or who discussed it.

Give up. You are never going to get any answer that is going to satisfy you.

[PantyHose&Furs]

I'm surprised so many people are willing to just give up and be content with being mislead.

I certainly respect everyone's right to do so...and undoubtedly there are more important things to focus on...but as a big fan of the NFL i'm bothered by this and how they are handling it.

Give up if you want, that's fine, but I'm glad there are people out there interested in the whole story.

I am.

[Lil Bit Special]

I'm surprised so many people are willing to just give up and be content with being mislead.

I certainly respect everyone's right to do so...and undoubtedly there are more important things to focus on...but as a big fan of the NFL i'm bothered by this and how they are handling it.

Give up if you want, that's fine, but I'm glad there are people out there interested in the whole story.

I am.

what part of the story arent you getting from the league? What more do you think there is?

We know the basics of this already. Pats videotaped signals illegally. They may have used it during games. They were caught. They were punished.

What new info wont fall into what we already know? Thats what I dont get. What do you think is going to be the big piece of info that will change this entire scandal.

I moved on the week after spygate started. Its not a big deal. Teams knew they were doing it. With the personnel movement around football, with coaches and players, you dont think everyone in the league knew about this?

[RSJ]

what part of the story arent you getting from the league? What more do you think there is?

We know the basics of this already. Pats videotaped signals illegally. They may have used it during games. They were caught. They were punished.

What new info wont fall into what we already know? Thats what I dont get. What do you think is going to be the big piece of info that will change this entire scandal.

I moved on the week after spygate started. Its not a big deal. Teams knew they were doing it. With the personnel movement around football, with coaches and players, you dont think everyone in the league knew about this?

Obviously not or it wouldn't have taken 7 years to catch them.

[Lil Bit Special]

Obviously not or it wouldn't have taken 7 years to catch them.

herm edwards waved at the camera a few years ago. they knew about it. nobody cared.

it only became something because of the jets security staff.

were what they were doing wrong? Yes. But if it was so wrong, why didnt opposing teams do something about it?

That is the only question I have left. Why didnt coaches like Herm Edwards say something to someone about this?

[RSJ]

herm edwards waved at the camera a few years ago. they knew about it. nobody cared.

it only became something because of the jets security staff.

were what they were doing wrong? Yes. But if it was so wrong, why didnt opposing teams do something about it?

That is the only question I have left. Why didnt coaches like Herm Edwards say something to someone about this?

Because Herm Edwards is an idiot. That is well documented on this website already.

[shutout]

That is the only question I have left. Why didnt coaches like Herm Edwards say something to someone about this?

Because there was a camera on him...He didn't see any problems with it as long as he got to act like a Jackass on camera.

[Lil Bit Special]

Because Herm Edwards is an idiot. That is well documented on this website already.

I know he is an idiot. I am one who pushes that agenda. But dont you think he would have said to an assistant or two that the pats are taping signals?

I just dont understand with all the player and personnel movement in the NFL nobody outside of Herm Edwards knew this was going on. And if people other than Hermie knew, why wasnt the issue addressed when Belichick continued doing it?

[Lil Bit Special]

Because there was a camera on him...He didn't see any problems with it as long as he got to act like a Jackass on camera.

[aec4]

Anyone else on this board interested in what this guys knows about this issue?

Daboll was mentioned by Walsh and he's in the commissioners office 48-hours later.

Adams has been mentioned throughout this controversy as someone who clearly has some level of knowledge of how the data was used and he hasn't been interviewed yet.

In my view he's someone who's participation in this issue needs to be investigated.

I couldn't care less what he has to say.

I couldn't care less about Spygate.

Get over it. WHO CARES.

[Jade Green]

I couldn't care less what he has to say.

I couldn't care less about Spygate.

Get over it. WHO CARES.

That is like saying my wife cheated on me and at my divorce the judge totally ignored the proof gave her a slap on the wrist then screwed me and gave her everything, but I don't care.

[aec4]

That is like saying my wife cheated on me and at my divorce the judge totally ignored the proof gave her a slap on the wrist then screwed me and gave her everything, but I don't care.

No, it's absolutely not even close to that.

One thing (your example) is serious. The other is not a big deal at all. WHO CARES if they video taped signs. In baseball, and other sports, they steal signs all the friggen time. GET OVER IT. CHANGE YOUR SIGNS PERIODICALLY.

[Lil Bit Special]

That is like saying my wife cheated on me and at my divorce the judge totally ignored the proof gave her a slap on the wrist then screwed me and gave her everything, but I don't care.

it would be more like:

you found out your wife cheated on you and said it only happened once.

then after the divorce decree you find out it was more than once. She admits maybe a few times.. Then find out later that she's been banging the whole neighborhood for years and your friends knew about it and said nothing.

Sure, it sucks that it keeps getting worse, but the main fact is she cheated on you. No matter the severity, she cheated. And got caught. Does it matter how many times she cheated? No. she's a dirty slut with no integrity the first time she does it. Just like Belichick. He's a dirty slut.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

No, it's absolutely not even close to that.

One thing (your example) is serious. The other is not a big deal at all. WHO CARES if they video taped signs. In baseball, and other sports, they steal signs all the friggen time. GET OVER IT. CHANGE YOUR SIGNS PERIODICALLY.

If you listen to the interview carefully, it doesn't sound like the Pats have stopped stealing signs. Just switched to the legal method of writing them down during the game instead of taping them which is perfectly legal.

[jetophile]

I couldn't care less what he has to say.

I couldn't care less about Spygate.

Get over it. WHO CARES.

Now Spygate, that there is a picture of a boyfriend's face I will NEVER scribble out in a fit of teenage angst with a Bic ballpoint pen.

[aec4]

If you listen to the interview carefully, it doesn't sound like the Pats have stopped stealing signs. Just switched to the legal method of writing them down during the game instead of taping them which is perfectly legal.

Exactly, which makes videotaping being illegal even more ridiculous.

[L.S. Dylan]

herm edwards waved at the camera a few years ago. they knew about it. nobody cared.

That is the only question I have left. Why didnt coaches like Herm Edwards say something to someone about this?

Just why I think the other coaches didn't blow the whistle on this: Not because it's not a big deal but coaches didn't want to deal with the sh-t storm that would have, and did, come out of it. Mangini looked like a bad guy somehow, and caught a lot of flak for it. Herm had a hard enough time worrying about the game.

[Lil Bit Special]

Just why I think the other coaches didn't blow the whistle on this: Not because it's not a big deal but coaches didn't want to deal with the sh-t storm that would have, and did, come out of it. Mangini looked like a bad guy somehow, and caught a lot of flak for it. Herm had a hard enough time worrying about the game.

I do believe that other coaches were protecting him like the NFL is protecting the pats. But if it was such a terrible thing, somebody would have said something to someone at some point.

but dont you think they could have said something off the record to someone... maybe Hermie saying something to Cannizaro after Hermie went to KC?

There are so many ways to let someone know whats going on without you being attached to it.

They were cheating for 7 years. And not once did anyone say something? That seems fishy to me.

My question is this: If the jets knew they were cheating and our coach allowed them to cheat for 7 years, affecting our success, shouldnt our team owe us an apology or refund or something? I cant believe that the jets would allow them to cheat and win hurting us so they wouldnt have to deal with a sh!tstorm. and if they did, I hate herm edwards more than ever.

[L.S. Dylan]

I do believe that other coaches were protecting him like the NFL is protecting the pats. But if it was such a terrible thing, somebody would have said something to someone at some point.

but dont you think they could have said something off the record to someone... maybe Hermie saying something to Cannizaro after Hermie went to KC?

There are so many ways to let someone know whats going on without you being attached to it.

They were cheating for 7 years. And not once did anyone say something? That seems fishy to me.

Very true. Coaching in the NFL is probably another world. There were some coaches quotes saying how people did that sometimes and its not a big deal. So when a newer coach saw it maybe their mentor said it wasn't a big deal or something. Maybe Mangini saw how much it really helped and wanted to pull the plug, who knows.

[Lil Bit Special]

Very true. Coaching in the NFL is probably another world. There were some quotes saying how people did that sometimes and its not a big deal. So when a newer coach saw it maybe their mentor said it wasn't a big deal or something. Maybe Mangini saw how much it really helped..

Possibly. I just wonder if Belichick was cheating when he was here with the Jets. And what does Parcells know about all of this.

[rick34125]

The effect of the Pat's cheating was more of an issue during their Superbowl runs in '01 thru '04. They were no doubt ahead of other teams in this regard. They capitalized on technology and Ernie Adams probably as much as Walsh claims. Their ability to steal signs effectively no doubt has dropped off significantly enough that it does no good to compare 2006 or '07 to 2001 or '02.

And next year when defenses will be able to radio signals directly to a defensive player this will be largely a non issue.

But the fact remains that during the Pats superbowl runs they cheated, quite a bit. How much did this benefit them? It's a legitimate question. I remember those years and how surprised everyone was with how much they won. No doubt players still have to play, but would they have been able to win as much as they did without the unfair competitive advantage they had?

This is the question that we want to know, which will probably never be answered. How much did Belichick's cheating ways benefit the Patriots superbowl years?

Belichick has been cheating a long time. There's a quote in TMQ from Phil Simms that the Giants had all the signals of the Chargers in a 1980 game. No surprise Belichick was on that team. So was Ernie Adams. I think what Tomlinson said about Belichick is so fitting. "If you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough."

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

The effect of the Pat's cheating was more of an issue during their Superbowl runs in '01 thru '04. They were no doubt ahead of other teams in this regard. They capitalized on technology and Ernie Adams probably as much as Walsh claims. Their ability to steal signs effectively no doubt has dropped off significantly enough that it does no good to compare 2006 or '07 to 2001 or '02.

And next year when defenses will be able to radio signals directly to a defensive player this will be largely a non issue.

But the fact remains that during the Pats superbowl runs they cheated, quite a bit. How much did this benefit them? It's a legitimate question. I remember those years and how surprised everyone was with how much they won. No doubt players still have to play, but would they have been able to win as much as they did without the unfair competitive advantage they had?

This is the question that we want to know, which will probably never be answered. How much did Belichick's cheating ways benefit the Patriots superbowl years?

Belichick has been cheating a long time. There's a quote in TMQ from Phil Simms that the Giants had all the signals of the Chargers in a 1980 game. No surprise Belichick was on that team. So was Ernie Adams. I think what Tomlinson said about Belichick is so fitting. "If you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough."

The question isn't how much did the Patriots benefit by recording the prior games defensive signals. The question is how much did the Patriots benefit by recording the prior games the signals via a camera instead of a notebook.

You saw the tapes. Film the clock, film the def coordinator with his hand covering 4 fingers, film the defense in a cover 4 formation. A guy with a binoculars notebook could record the time and all of the defensive signals. Then after the game match them up with the plays. It would take few hours longer but the intelligence gained would be the exact same.

Using the camera saved them some time to do the correlating of plays and signals but did not significantly improve the end product.

[rick34125]

The question isn't how much did the Patriots benefit by recording the prior games defensive signals. The question is how much did the Patriots benefit by recording the prior games the signals via a camera instead of a notebook.

You saw the tapes. Film the clock, film the def coordinator with his hand covering 4 fingers, film the defense in a cover 4 formation. A guy with a binoculars notebook could record the time and all of the defensive signals. Then after the game match them up with the plays. It would take few hours longer but the intelligence gained would be the exact same.

Using the camera saved them some time to do the correlating of plays and signals but did not significantly improve the end product.

Don't be naive. It's an absurd spin. If the league thought it was the same difference they wouldn't have prohibited the videotaping of the opposing teams signals, nor would they have levied an unprecedented fine against belichick and kraft.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

Don't be naive. It's an absurd spin. If the league thought it was the same difference they wouldn't have prohibited the videotaping of the opposing teams signals, nor would they have levied an unprecedented fine against belichick and kraft.

The Patriots violated a rule and Godell sent a powerful message that he wasn't putting up with rule violations. But the punishment was much more severe than the crime.

The although the Patriots received a benefit by using the method they did it was small.

[Jade Green]

No, it's absolutely not even close to that.

One thing (your example) is serious. The other is not a big deal at all. WHO CARES if they video taped signs. In baseball, and other sports, they steal signs all the friggen time. GET OVER IT. CHANGE YOUR SIGNS PERIODICALLY.

NOT WITH VIDEO CAMERAS THEY DON'T!!!

DON'T CHEAT PERMANATELY!!!

[rick34125]

The Patriots violated a rule and Godell sent a powerful message that he wasn't putting up with rule violations. But the punishment was much more severe than the crime.

The although the Patriots received a benefit by using the method they did it was small.

lmao. i haven't heard this one yet. and what's the reason videotaping is against the rules?

[Jade Green]

The Patriots violated a rule and Godell sent a powerful message that he wasn't putting up with rule violations. But the punishment was much more severe than the crime.

The although the Patriots received a benefit by using the method they did it was small.

It was so small they risked cheating for 7 years, WHAT A JOKE!!!

[aec4]

NOT WITH VIDEO CAMERAS THEY DON'T!!!

DON'T CHEAT PERMANATELY!!!

You honestly think baseball teams do not use video cameras in CF to steal pitchers signs?

hahaahahah... Happens ALL the time. Heck, I only played A level ball and we did it THERE. We used to change our signs all the time.

[aec4]

As for the people who say the penalty was severe.. . BS.

I think every single one of us would trade the #31 pick in the draft and 500K for a superbowl.

[Jade Green]

You honestly think baseball teams do not use video cameras in CF to steal pitchers signs?

hahaahahah... Happens ALL the time. Heck, I only played A level ball and we did it THERE. We used to change our signs all the time.

So baseball teams have cameras in the dug out and scattered about the field right.

If a baseball team gets caught using a camera in the dug out to steal signs it is **CHEATING!!!** right?

[Lil Bit Special]

As for the people who say the penalty was severe.. . BS.

I think every single one of us would trade the #31 pick in the draft and 500K for a superbowl.

I would. In a heart beat.

[aec4]

So baseball teams have cameras in the dug out and scattered about the field right.

If a baseball team gets caught using a camera in the dug out to steal signs it is **CHEATING!!!** right?

No, they don't... but they do have cameras in CF for TV... there are plenty of stories of teams doing it... The Giants when they played at the polo grounds had a whole system and could relay the pitch to the batter in time... People laugh it off.

Explain to me why this is different than if a Patriots coach bought a ticket in the front row, or 1st few rows, and did the videoing frm there?

You're blowing this so far out of proportion it's not funny.

[Jade Green]

No, they don't... but they do have cameras in CF for TV... there are plenty of stories of teams doing it... The Giants when they played at the polo grounds had a whole system and could relay the pitch to the batter in time... People laugh it off.

Explain to me why this is different than if a Patriots coach bought a ticket in the front row, or 1st few rows, and did the videoing frm there?

You're blowing this so far out of proportion it's not funny.

There is no difference it is all **CHEATING!!!** DUH!!! And the Pats did it from the sidelines, not the stands so your point is not only stupid, it's moot.

I do not laugh off the fact that the NY baseball Giants cheated the year they stole the pennant from Brooklyn, I find that is equally disgracefull.

[war ensemble]

The although the Patriots received a benefit by using the method they did it was small.

How do you know the benefit was small?