Morrissey Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 You asked for it. http://www.nomaas.org/ NOMAAS EXCLUSIVE: Torre to release second book Highlights of the book include: - His 894-1003 record before he went to the Yankees - Blaming everyone else for winning only one division title in 15 seasons - Feeling betrayed by GM Frank Cashen after leading the Mets to a 286-420 record And last but not least, his inability to handle a pitching staff and his poor work ethic: There were whispers about his problems handling pitchers, teaching fundamentals, arriving at the ballpark too late and leaving too early. (Source: The Atlanta Journal Constitution, Feb 2 1985, Page B2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 LOL baseball requires the least impact of a manager/coach, compared to the NFL or NBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 LOL baseball requires the least impact of a manager/coach, compared to the NFL or NBA Managing the bullpen and the personalities is your only job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 in the NBA, a great coach can mean the difference in 5-10 games (of an 82 game schedge) in the NFL, a great coach can mean 4-7 games (of a 16 game schedge) in the NL a great "manager" can mean 5-7 games of a 162 game schedge in the AL, no more than 5 games Torre was a perfect fit for the Yankees clubhouse, but other places not so much. i don't think he worries about the past though. no point in that. but they always say that failure hurts more than success feels great. i've interviewed college baseball LEGEND coach John Winkin for my college station, right after the Yankees let him go. he thought the 5 million contract (w/ incentives) was a slap in Torre's face, but that's because he knew Torre and probably let his 87 year old feelings get in the way of the last 4 Yankee seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Managing the bullpen and the personalities is your only job. Well every Yankee fan in the world knows Torre can't manage a bullpen, but he is a great personality, and that was enough for him, and the players he managed to win 4 titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 that 2001 world series...that hurt the most. 2003 WS sucked but beating Boston and living in Red Sox land was great enough. 2004 sucked but our 2004 team was trash. 2001, that team should've won. AZ was a one year wonder, we still had Paul O'neil and Mussina was playing his first year...we had just beat the Mariners, with the BEST EVER record. Dammit Roger, you should've taken better steroids game 7! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisaynon Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 let's not deviate from the topic - torre sucks, kaye was was talking about how much of an ******* torre was and doesn't recieve half of the praise he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well every Yankee fan in the world knows Torre can't manage a bullpen, but he is a great personality, and that was enough for him, and the players he managed to win 4 titles. I could be wrong but Joe sure appeared to manage the pen during the title years. In fact lots of Baseball peolple including Gene Michael have said those teams made it a 6 inning game by taking pitches to get your starter out of the game early and then destroying you in the Yanks bullpen vs yours In the latter years I guess you could debate whether Torre was handcuffed to some degree by horrible SP signings/trades that led to injuries or poor production and forced him into a mediocre pen more often and earlier than he'd have liked. Scott Proctor is the only glaring misuse I saw and that was only in 2006. Guys like Stanton, Nelson and Mendoza from the Championship teams were all used pretty much the same as Proctor with the exception of 06, a year when the Yanks staff and pen was a revolving door of players and Proctor was overused. That was also a seaon Tony Pena applauded Torre for the job he did handling all the injuries and issues. Another point to be considered is that post roid bullpens, say from 2002 on, are a crap shoot year to year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbro22 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I could be wrong but Joe sure appeared to manage the pen during the title years. In fact lots of Baseball peolple including Gene Michael have said those teams made it a 6 inning game by taking pitches to get your starter out of the game early and then destroying you in the Yanks bullpen vs yours In the latter years I guess you could debate whether Torre was handcuffed to some degree by horrible SP signings/trades that led to injuries or poor production and forced him into a mediocre pen more often and earlier than he'd have liked. Scott Proctor is the only glaring misuse I saw and that was only in 2006. Guys like Stanton, Nelson and Mendoza from the Championship teams were all used pretty much the same as Proctor with the exception of 06, a year when the Yanks staff and pen was a revolving door of players and Proctor was overused. That was also a seaon Tony Pena applauded Torre for the job he did handling all the injuries and issues. Another point to be considered is that post roid bullpens, say from 2002 on, are a crap shoot year to year. Yeah, it doesn't hurt to have the greatest closer of all time in the pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 wow..Yankee fans are a-holes. anyone who thinks Torre had little to do with the success of the Yankees during his tenure know nothing about baseball...and I will stand by that.... To say any manager could have done what Torre did in the '96, '00, '01, '03, '07 seasons are just insane.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 wow..Yankee fans are a-holes. anyone who thinks Torre had little to do with the success of the Yankees during his tenure know nothing about baseball...and I will stand by that.... To say any manager could have done what Torre did in the '96, '00, '01, '03, '07 seasons are just insane.... What did Torre do during '07? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 What did Torre do during '07? How far back were the Yankees? How far out of the playoff race were they? Torre was the manager and helped guide an underachieving team to the playoffs yet again when everyone wrote them off. The Yankees were riddled with injuries (at one point Pettitte and Igawa were the only healthy starters.) They went into the all-star break under .500. He pulled Moose out of the rotation and started Kennedy over him, which worked out. They went from 11 games back at the all-star break to only 2 games back by the end of the season....and they were the wild-card team. Wang imploding and Joba getting hit by one of the plagues foiled the Yankees attempt at defeating the Indians...and I think Torre should take a hit for not requesting a time out while Joba was being eaten alive. But to discount the horrendous season the Yankees were having and still pull out a playoff appearance is a sure testament to what Joe Torre's calm demeanor and presence meant to that team. I have no doubt, that if Torre were the manager in 2008 the Yankees would have made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 How far back were the Yankees? How far out of the playoff race were they? Torre was the manager and helped guide an underachieving team to the playoffs yet again when everyone wrote them off. The Yankees were riddled with injuries (at one point Pettitte and Igawa were the only healthy starters.) They went into the all-star break under .500. He pulled Moose out of the rotation and started Kennedy over him, which worked out. They went from 11 games back at the all-star break to only 2 games back by the end of the season....and they were the wild-card team. Wang imploding and Joba getting hit by one of the plagues foiled the Yankees attempt at defeating the Indians...and I think Torre should take a hit for not requesting a time out while Joba was being eaten alive. But to discount the horrendous season the Yankees were having and still pull out a playoff appearance is a sure testament to what Joe Torre's calm demeanor and presence meant to that team. I have no doubt, that if Torre were the manager in 2008 the Yankees would have made the playoffs. So he gets the credit for his team coming back, but he doesn't get the credit for there awful start? That the players fault right? The left handed hitters in the lineup couldn't hit the first half of the season, and in the second half, they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Just think, if Stan Van Gundy was the Celtics coach then, the Celtics would be undefeated right now. And if the Magic had Doc Rivers as their coach, the Magic would be as bad as the Pistons, and Heat are right now. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 So he gets the credit for his team coming back, but he doesn't get the credit for there awful start? That the players fault right? The left handed hitters in the lineup couldn't hit the first half of the season, and in the second half, they could. I never said he gets no blame..unlike everyone else I am not an either or guy... he gets his fair share of the blame and the credit.... I also don't agree with the "injuries are no excuse" Torre had much more to do with the outcome of the '96-'07 seasons than you are willing to give him credit for. I am not nor have I ever said he doesn't get the blame for his failings...2004 is scarred in my brain...and he takes the blame for that....but to think any manager could have won with these teams is ridiculous. You like to say that "the pieces were in place" when Torre came to the Yankees...but that isn't true..they had many of the pieces but were missing a very crucial piece.....the manager. look, we won't agree because you obviously bend over for the pinstripes..and anyone who says anything detrimental is banished..... ahhhhh...your Irish anyway....why don't you watch soccer instead!!!! *****edit**** that was my attempt at "lockerroom humor...not a personal attack. Stuff written on the internet rarely come across as I hear it in my head.******* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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