New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[Doggin94it]

1.) I'll take your word for it.

2.) I tend to agree with you. We're not supposed to name names, but maybe Pac can tell us what position SMC's role plays and SMC can confirm?

Now that is a terrific idea. Pac just named SMC as an innocent, so if Pac doesn't have that info, Pac must be scum.

[ZachEY]

Now that is a terrific idea. Pac just named SMC as an innocent, so if Pac doesn't have that info, Pac must be scum.

Not if he gets the name of a normal Jet player. That's the idea.

You should read the whole thing before commenting.

[Doggin94it]

I meant to tell you.. Good thought here but wrong play..

I don't know why sometimes we insist on spoon feeding people stuff. TOWNIES CAN LIE TOO! You should've said the wrong NFLPA rep name on purpose to see if he correct you. If he didn't, we'd have caught him in lie..

Like yesterday, I spent a good amount of time explaining why the SK should claim vig now, and you and EY come back and correct me by point out all the reasons why the serial killer shouldn't claim. Well Duh! But why explain it to him/them? Why encourage the serial killer not to come out in the open?

Because at the moment, the SK is our only out if we mis-lynch 2 days in a row. If we lynch an innocent today, and he's night killed, we need to be perfect the rest of the way.

As I said, at this point, the town needs the serial alive

[slats]

Okay...

This pretty much confirms Pac has a power, and if he's getting names and nothing else, it's really got to be a townie power. Scum already knows who's who.

I'm leery of jumping right into lynching Vic, but I'd have to lean scum on him. It's possible he's some other sort of investivative role of varying sanity, but I think it's also very possible that SMC handed him his role and he just happily ran with that. If we have other townies who have power roles and are also FO personnel, they should see this logic better than I do.

If he's scum, he offered me over as a confirmed innocent to gain my trust. I have to think he's being run, and the fact that he's naming Doggin as an innocent at what is getting to be a critical point in the game would seem to suggest that Doggin the "axis member" on the scum team. Before Pac's revelation, we'd've trusted whoever Vic declared innocent (with a slight fear of godfatherism). He was reluctant to name a name at first, which would've been the better scum play, but was pressed and offered up Doggin. That reeks to me.

We can go ahead and lynch Vic. The downside is that if he's a bungling cop of some sort we've lynched a townie, but at least BG assures us we'll get that info. If he's scum, I think we have to assume Doggin's scum and take him down next.

[Doggin94it]

Interesting also that Pac is insinuating that town power roles are FO members and that he deduced doctor based on "Tannenbaum". Since Bleedin made sure to correct when ya'll were going to lynch him based on thsi player/FO member inconsistancy, i have to assume Pac is telling the truth..

NFL PA rep isn't a FO member..

I realllllly want to vote double vulva right now..

Another point, a possible reason why the scum team would want the real cop to counter claim asap is so they don't mistakenly NK them. THis allows them to keep Vic alive as long as possible..

You know, yesterday you were arguing that the scum want the cop to counterclaim immediately so they can be NK'd quickly (since a 1 for 1 trade is good for the mafia [you said]).

Today, it's so they can avoid killing him . . .

I'm sure you see the inconsistency there.

BTW, I am, in fact, innocent - but I'm torn between Vic and Pac right now. (and yes, this is the post I'm up to in my read through. If you've lynched someone already, F you all).

[Doggin94it]

That could be a make or break play. Pretty bold.

I'll tell you that Doggin was high on my list, too, and that him coming back innocent will make me do a lot of rethinking. I want both Vic and Pac to explain further, and the fact that neither will be back for hours is no help. Also want to hear from SMC, but that's a helluva play from Pac if he's guessing.

Or Pac and SMC are scum teammates.

Which is why I'm somewhat leaning towards lynching Vic today; even if he's the cop, his death nails two scum.

[slats]

Or Pac and SMC are scum teammates.

Which is why I'm somewhat leaning towards lynching Vic today; even if he's the cop, his death nails two scum.

Yes, that's the other option. I don't want our doc revealing, but he FO names for Pac and the doc make a case that it's Vic who's BS'ing.

[Doggin94it]

Assuming Vic is who he says he is I have to believe it's one of the bolded...

Since BG said that his sanity would be revealed at death I have to assume I'd be able to tell if I looked at him tonight. To be safe we can lynch someone else (I reallly want to vote WP) and I can check him out while the Doc protects me.

I'm NOT sold on Slats or Doggin but would prefer lynching someone else in case Vic is legit.

Thoughts?

And where's WP??? You know what:

Vote WP

I can tell you Vic is not insane (since I'm innocent, and he says he got an innocent result for me).

Which (if they're both townie cops) means Vic is either random or Naive. (Note: if they're both townie cops, Vic would be the one with a sanity problem, since if SMC confirms Pac's name-calling, Pac must either be sane or scum together with SMC).

As I see it, the options at the moment are:

1) Vic scum

2) Pac scum

3) Pac real cop, Vic altered sanity cop.

[Doggin94it]

Yes.

Sorry I've been out of the mix. This is my anniversary weekend (7 years married). We've been out all day since I last posted). I just got back in.

I was at Walmart (before we walked over to the place for dinner), watching the NFL draft on my phone (Sprint TV carries NFL Network live like on television) and I knew I looked like an idiot jumping up in down with the Sanchez pic.

I'm soooo far behind on draft stuff and this thread, so I'll be catched up by tomorrow.

But, yes, I am the team's best player, the shutdown corner (not being coy, just don't want to say the name b/c of Bleedin's rule).

unvote: Norway

vote: Vicious

At this point, Vicious is either scum (in which case we need to off him), an altered sanity cop (in which case we need to know so Pac can be protected), or the real cop (in which case his death will confirm Pac and SMC as scum, which is a terrific trade for us)

[Doggin94it]

Okay...

This pretty much confirms Pac has a power, and if he's getting names and nothing else, it's really got to be a townie power. Scum already knows who's who.

I'm leery of jumping right into lynching Vic, but I'd have to lean scum on him. It's possible he's some other sort of investivative role of varying sanity, but I think it's also very possible that SMC handed him his role and he just happily ran with that. If we have other townies who have power roles and are also FO personnel, they should see this logic better than I do.

If he's scum, he offered me over as a confirmed innocent to gain my trust. I have to think he's being run, and the fact that he's naming Doggin as an innocent at what is getting to be a critical point in the game would seem to suggest that Doggin the "axis member" on the scum team. Before Pac's revelation, we'd've trusted whoever Vic declared innocent (with a slight fear of godfatherism). He was reluctant to name a name at first, which would've been the better scum play, but was pressed and offered up Doggin. That reeks to me.

We can go ahead and lynch Vic. The downside is that if he's a bungling cop of some sort we've lynched a townie, but at least BG assures us we'll get that info. If he's scum, I think we have to assume Doggin's scum and take him down next.

well, obviously. Cause, you know, you'd need to assume that any player Vic id'd as innocent would be guilty . . .

Oh, wait, that applies to you too, right?

Look, false claiming cop and identifying townies as innocents is a classic mafia play for precisely this reason - if you get taken down, you can take a townie or two with you if you're lucky.

If Vic is scum, we do exactly what I've suggested the town do when learning that I'm scum - completely ignore everything he's said, and build cases based on behavior and the person we're casing.

[CTM]

well, obviously. Cause, you know, you'd need to assume that any player Vic id'd as innocent would be guilty . . .

Oh, wait, that applies to you too, right?

Look, false claiming cop and identifying townies as innocents is a classic mafia play for precisely this reason - if you get taken down, you can take a townie or two with you if you're lucky.

If Vic is scum, we do exactly what I've suggested the town do when learning that I'm scum - completely ignore everything he's said, and build cases based on behavior and the person we're casing.

Slip?

[ZachEY]

well, obviously. Cause, you know, you'd need to assume that any player Vic id'd as innocent would be guilty . . .

Oh, wait, that applies to you too, right?

Look, false claiming cop and identifying townies as innocents is a classic mafia play for precisely this reason - if you get taken down, you can take a townie or two with you if you're lucky.

If Vic is scum, we do exactly what I've suggested the town do when learning that I'm scum - completely ignore everything he's said, and build cases based on behavior and the person we're casing.

Sounds to me like you're trying to get an investigator killed.

Play out the scenario...

We lynch vic and he is guilty then...............

We lynch vic and he is cop then..................

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count:

WoodyPaige (2) - Pac2566, Norway

Norway (1) - Vicious89x

Vicious (1) - Doggin

With 10 players remaining, it takes 6 to cut.

[Vicious89x]

Ah, 'Mr. I hate it when anyone calls me dumb in this game', is calling people dumb now.

And you're quite good at turning your nose up at people. You gonna pick apart everything I say now?

If you guys wanna lynch me go for it. Apparently you have another cop so honestly it can't hurt the town. I'd prefer to stay alive one more night to turn in a guilty plea. It's so much easier for a guy to say non-roled townie, hell all I can say is guilty or not.

Here's something to chew on though, when I turn up cop it's fascinating that both slats and doggin are trying to come after me. One of them has to be the godfather.

[ZachEY]

And you're quite good at turning your nose up at people. You gonna pick apart everything I say now?

If you guys wanna lynch me go for it. Apparently you have another cop so honestly it can't hurt the town. I'd prefer to stay alive one more night to turn in a guilty plea. It's so much easier for a guy to say non-roled townie, hell all I can say is guilty or not.

Here's something to chew on though, when I turn up cop it's fascinating that both slats and doggin are trying to come after me. One of them has to be the godfather.

I'm actually in favor of keeping you both alive one more night. Need to think about the math a bit more.

I still think we should take Woody/Doggin/JT.

Then, I think if you investigate one person you haven't, and Pac investigates one person he hasn't, we can make our decisions on both of you, and have a solid body of 'evidence' as per the results on who to go after.

[Vicious89x]

I'm actually in favor of keeping you both alive one more night. Need to think about the math a bit more.

I still think we should take Woody/Doggin/JT.

Then, I think if you investigate one person you haven't, and Pac investigates one person he hasn't, we can make our decisions on both of you, and have a solid body of 'evidence' as per the results on who to go after.

Sounds good... I think we lay the cards on the table this go around let's say who we are going to investigate. We can even tell the doctor to protect himself and allow us to go into NP without protection.

The other option... is to give me the protection again, if Pac lives through 2 NP's being a known "town power role" is fascinating considering how close we're narrowing things down.

[CTM]

Here's my problem, in a 16 player game I don't see how the town can have just a doc and a cop. To weak a setup, unless there is only 3 scum...

There almost has to be atleast 1 more town power role out there.. Could it be a second cop though???

[Vicious89x]

Oh and one more thing. I keep thinking JT is the way to go. Doggin is clear, per my investigation.

[CTM]

Sounds good... I think we lay the cards on the table this go around let's say who we are going to investigate. We can even tell the doctor to protect himself and allow us to go into NP without protection.

The other option... is to give me the protection again, if Pac lives through 2 NP's being a known "town power role" is fascinating considering how close we're narrowing things down.

He's more vetted then you...

Obv you go unprotected...

[Doggin94it]

Slip?

Not at all. I'm not scum in this game. When I am scum, that's what the town should do

[Doggin94it]

Sounds to me like you're trying to get an investigator killed.

Play out the scenario...

We lynch vic and he is guilty then...............

We lynch vic and he is cop then..................

We lynch vic and he is guilty then . . . hooray! 2 scum down, lets look for more

We lynch vic and he is (sane) cop, then . . . we lynch Pac (clearly scum) tomorrow, we lynch SMC (must be Pac's scum partner) the next day. We also trust Vic's results

We lynch vic and he is non-sane townie, then . . . doc knows to protect Pac, we move on, ignoring all of vic's results

Bottom line - in all situations except Vic as insane townie, we kill scum. Plus - and this is critical - even if Vic is an insane townie, (and of course if he's scum) the doc knows to protect Pac tonight. Which is obviously much better than coinflipping between Vic and Pac.

Bottom line - no matter what Vic's alignment and sanity, lynching him helps the town more than lynching Pac (because there's no chance that Pac is insane - he's either scum or a useful cop), and definitely more than leaving them both alive (since then we get no information and the doc doesn't know who to protect)

Frankly, I'm surprised and concerned that you needed me to explain that to you.

[Doggin94it]

I'm actually in favor of keeping you both alive one more night. Need to think about the math a bit more.

I still think we should take Woody/Doggin/JT.

So that tomorrow, at endgame, we make the same decision blind (or have one of our two cop claimants claim to find a guilty, and have to decide whether they are scum or not)??

Bull. At worst (if they're both townies), killing Vic now makes sure our real cop (which has to be Pac, if they are both townies) gets doc protection.

At best (Pac is cop, Vic is scum), we kill scum (Vic) while our cop stays alive.

Middle (Vic is cop, Pac is scum), we lose our cop (Vic) but identify 2 scum (Pac and SMC). Our serial has happy hunting tonight, and we lynch the other one tomorrow.

Then, I think if you investigate one person you haven't, and Pac investigates one person he hasn't, we can make our decisions on both of you, and have a solid body of 'evidence' as per the results on who to go after.

Conveniently neglecting to mention that if we make that decision tomorrow rather than today, the game ends if we're wrong.

[Doggin94it]

Sounds good... I think we lay the cards on the table this go around let's say who we are going to investigate. We can even tell the doctor to protect himself and allow us to go into NP without protection.

The other option... is to give me the protection again, if Pac lives through 2 NP's being a known "town power role" is fascinating considering how close we're narrowing things down.

Exactly what scum would say (set up Pac for lynch tomorrow = game over if you are scum and Pac is innocent)

Guys, it's really simple. Leaving Pac and Vic both alive for another day completely screws the town. Vic is the better lynch (since there's no chance that, if they're both townies, he's the sane cop).

I'm begging you, lynch Vic.

[slats]

Oh and one more thing. I keep thinking JT is the way to go. Doggin is clear, per my investigation.

Really?

What changed for you between last night around this time and now?

What's up fella's. Goddamn women and their ridiculous needs of a "colorful house". I'm covered in yellow, blue and red paint. At least I got a green room

Anyways, I don't know if I should reveal who I looked at, it's unncecsary at this time. For what it's worth I'm casting my vote as I believe this person to be the most scummy based on information presented and my belief. I missed on my investigation and I regret switching my decision at the last second. Like I said I think it's not beneficial to the town to reveal who I investigated. I'll be here for about 30 min, then back to the house and lay down my 3RD ****ING COAT of yellow paint. BLAH

Vote: Norway

Yesterday, when Pac's role had everyone queasy, you came right out and said we should go after Norway. A coincidence that he's Doggin's favorite target, too?

I have to tell you, I don't like this. I don't know which way to go. Pac's role reveal seems much more real today - but then again he's had a couple days to work it out. Maybe he did hook up with scum partner SMC as Doggin suggested earlier to concoct this alternate cop role...

But I don't think so.

Bleedin confirmed that there are non-players in this game. There was nothing about that in the game set-up. That really helps Pac's case. The fact that he has a power role that gets names, and he found another FO name that he thinks could be the doc makes sense. So far, everyone who's died is a roleless player. It's extremely compelling.

The idea that BG tells you that your investigations "bleed green," or not could be true - or could be another Peter Petrocelli. Because when I think of it now, it seems really silly.

[Doggin94it]

Oh, one more thing. It's possible that Pac is scum and SMC is not, but only if Pac is a mafia investigator. So if we lynch Vic and Vic is innocent and sane, the Serial should kill Pac tonight, and unless he comes up as a mafia role-finder, we lynch SMC tomorrow.

[Doggin94it]

Really?

What changed for you between last night around this time and now?

Yesterday, when Pac's role had everyone queasy, you came right out and said we should go after Norway. A coincidence that he's Doggin's favorite target, too?

I have to tell you, I don't like this. I don't know which way to go. Pac's role reveal seems much more real today - but then again he's had a couple days to work it out. Maybe he did hook up with scum partner SMC as Doggin suggested earlier to concoct this alternate cop role...

But I don't think so.

Bleedin confirmed that there are non-players in this game. There was nothing about that in the game set-up. That really helps Pac's case. The fact that he has a power role that gets names, and he found another FO name that he thinks could be the doc makes sense. So far, everyone who's died is a roleless player. It's extremely compelling.

The idea that BG tells you that your investigations "bleed green," or not could be true - or could be another Peter Petrocelli. Because when I think of it now, it seems really silly.

Slats, I like the way you think.

Run the scenarios for yourself. There are only 4 possibilities for their alignments:

Vic is scum/SK and Pac is town (cop)

Vic is town (cop) and Pac is scum (cannot be serial, not with SMC confirming player identification)

Vic is town (non-sane cop) and Pac is town (sane cop) (SMC's confirmation means that if Pac is a townie, he's our sane cop)

Vic is scum/SK and Pac is scum (highly unlikely, since nobody else is claiming cop)

Is my analysis off? Is my explanation of why we need to lynch Vic off?

[Doggin94it]

We lynch vic and he is guilty then . . . hooray! 2 scum down, lets look for more

We lynch vic and he is (sane) cop, then . . . we lynch Pac (clearly scum) tomorrow, we lynch SMC (must be Pac's scum partner) the next day. We also trust Vic's results

We lynch vic and he is non-sane townie, then . . . doc knows to protect Pac, we move on, ignoring all of vic's results

Bottom line - in all situations except Vic as insane townie, we kill scum. Plus - and this is critical - even if Vic is an insane townie, (and of course if he's scum) the doc knows to protect Pac tonight. Which is obviously much better than coinflipping between Vic and Pac.

Bottom line - no matter what Vic's alignment and sanity, lynching him helps the town more than lynching Pac (because there's no chance that Pac is insane - he's either scum or a useful cop), and definitely more than leaving them both alive (since then we get no information and the doc doesn't know who to protect)

Frankly, I'm surprised and concerned that you needed me to explain that to you.

Hate to quote myself, but one more thing - if Vic is our real cop, the doc also gets to protect himself rather than possibly choosing to protect Pac (and therefore wasting a protection on scum).

Can anyone see any upside at all to letting two cop-claimants live to endgame?

Isn't that the exact problem scenario I pointed out on Day 2 (two cop claimants at endgame, and if we choose wrong, we lose)?

We need to decide between them today, at endgame -1, so that we can take what we learn if we are wrong and use it tomorrow.

If we leave the choice until tomorrow, then if we are wrong, we don't get to put our info to use.

This is simple cost/benefit stuff, guys. If we don't pick between Vic and Pac today, we don't have any outs.

And since Vic's lynch and reveal as the cop hands us 2 scum while Pac's would hand us only 1, and since if they're both townies Pac has to be the sane 1 (and therefore we'd rather lynch Vic) . . . well, the one we should choose to lynch should be really obvious.

[CTM]

Doggin.. I'm 100% behind lynching Vic..

BUT..

What I'm wondering is, since we didn't have a Vig claim, is it possible the town only has a 1 cop and 1 doc in a 16 player game with 2 NK'ers? I don't think so, there needs to be atleast 1 more power role for us to be confident that there isn't 2 cops this game...

Again, I really would like a vig to claim right now if out there.

Woody? JT? Norway? - any of you guys NK JVOR and Sharrow? Please come clean now..

[slats]

I'm actually in favor of keeping you both alive one more night. Need to think about the math a bit more.

I still think we should take Woody/Doggin/JT.

Then, I think if you investigate one person you haven't, and Pac investigates one person he hasn't, we can make our decisions on both of you, and have a solid body of 'evidence' as per the results on who to go after.

I think Doggin's right about the math. If we miss on the one we choose from those three, then we're down 2 or 3 more townies heading into the next day phase trying to decide which cop to believe again. Our best hope would be the SK taking out scum. If he failed to do that, where would we be.

Ten players.

What's our best guess? 6 town, 3 scum, 1 SK.

Lynch an innocent today, scum bags an innocent, we're down to 4 town without the SK taking one of us out. If the SK takes out a townie, it's game over in scums favor, no?

I think you have to look at the two cops and decide who's story you believe more, and lynch the other one. If nothing else, you know who you're going to lynch tomorrow.

And if somehow they're both town, we're toast. Is that believable enough that we should let them both live another night? If you have that case to present, I'm all ears. Ditto if you think you have a strong enough case out of Woody/Doggin/JT to really go after one of them, instead.

[CTM]

Slats, are you the vig?

Be honest...

[slats]

Doggin.. I'm 100% behind lynching Vic..

BUT..

What I'm wondering is, since we didn't have a Vig claim, is it possible the town only has a 1 cop and 1 doc in a 16 player game with 2 NK'ers? I don't think so, there needs to be atleast 1 more power role for us to be confident that there isn't 2 cops this game...

Again, I really would like a vig to claim right now if out there.

Woody? JT? Norway? - any of you guys NK JVOR and Sharrow? Please come clean now..

I hear what you're saying here. One possible explanation is that there's one or two players who have back-up roles, that they have no powers until the main cop or doc is taken out. Could even be that we lost those back-ups and they died as roleless townies. Plausible?

I think if we had a vig that we would've heard from him by now.

And the SK has to realize that he probably needs to kill scum or not fire next time out, or he's gonna lose this game, too.

[slats]

Slats, are you the vig?

Be honest...

No, and I honestly don't believe we have one.

[CTM]

No, and I honestly don't believe we have one.

If we have no vig then there is 3 alternative possibilities

1) Vic and Pac are both innocent and being honest

2) There are only 2 scum left

3) We have another power role (roleblocker? BulletProof?)

There is no way in a 16 man game we only have a doctor and a cop unless the scum are shorthanded as well..

[slats]

If we have no vig then there is 3 alternative possibilities

1) Vic and Pac are both innocent and being honest

2) There are only 2 scum left

3) We have another power role (roleblocker? BulletProof?)

There is no way in a 16 man game we only have a doctor and a cop unless the scum are shorthanded as well..

Well, I threw up my back-up role idea. What do you think of that?

And don't you think that a SK does enough to balance the game out? Look how quickly we're at a boiling point because of him.

[CTM]

Well, I threw up my back-up role idea. What do you think of that?

And don't you think that a SK does enough to balance the game out? Look how quickly we're at a boiling point because of him.

A SK makes the game worse for the town obv..

if this game is cop, doc and 9 townies vs. SK vs. 4 scum, then it's unblanced...

I have to believe our mod didn't create such an unbalanced game..