Draft rumors getting ugly

[T0mShane]

Based on what? dont see any flexibility on film different than Reed. There's no film of Robert Quinn or Aldon Smith in coverage making great plays.

TS don't take this the wrong way but You and TS have decided Reed sucks and are trying to get from the finish line back to the starting point. I started looking at this 3rd rounder in January and he's only risen since then.

It's all in good fun, Matt, and you know I always enjoy your draft stuff, even when I disagree with it. I just think you're wrong about Reed if you want to turn Reed into an OLB on the Jets. I don't think he can move the way you need an OLB to move. He may be a rising prospect as a 4-3 end, but as an OLB I can't imagine he's a first rounder. It's just not there. And I'm not even talking about covering backs, I'm talking about taking the corner on NFL tackles. His own teammate, playing the same position against the same competition was significantly more productive than he was at doing the same thing, yet Reed gets to be the better player because he ran a little faster at the Combine? I think you get yourself wayyyyy too hung up on workout numbers, which is why you fall in love with the Dewayne Robertsons and Vernon Gholstons of the world.

[bitonti]

I think you get yourself wayyyyy too hung up on workout numbers, which is why you fall in love with the Dewayne Robertsons and Vernon Gholstons of the world.

This is some revisionist history. Drob didn't even work out at the combine. Gholston did... but let's get it straight we are talking about draft value.

We can like Ricky Elmore but it's dumb to use a first round pick on him. Cause he could be available in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. There are players I like who flat out won't get drafted.

I really like LB Mike Mohamed out of Cal but he's not talked about as an elite prospect. So when is it right to take him? Ozzie Newsome is smarter than most on the draft, he liked Terrence Cody but he didn't want to use a first rounder on him. Same thing with Andy Reid and Desean Jackson.

Bringing us back to Brooks Reed he has 1st round measurables. He has 1st round production to go with those measurables. There's no magic film that shows him not being able to turn left. he might go 30 or 40 but he won't be there in the late 2nd where the Jets pick would have been. He certainly isn't gonna be there at 94. So i don't get this whole line of thinking that he's not worth the pick. Based on what?

Tyson Alualu was widely considered a reach last year at 10. But ya know what he played his a$$ off... so a reach is only a reach if it busts. Reed might be a reach if he doesn't play well.

Robert Quinn had a brain tumor and missed a year of football, but he's an elite first rounder. With less sacks and almost every measureable not as good as Brooks Reed. The only category he's better at is 3 inchs of vert. It becomes about reputation, Reed doesn't have a rep so everyone thinks he's overrated.

for every Gholston that didn't pan out there are players like Clay matthews, who yes by the way did run 1.49 in the 10 yard split.

and let me just say further I saw this guy up close and he kicked a$$. He knocked Sherrod around. He beat up on Castonzo and Solder. Those guys are first rounders more or less but Brooks Reed is a 3rd rounder? cause he can't move? How does that make sense? /end rant

[T0mShane]

This is some revisionist history. Drob didn't even work out at the combine. Gholston did... but let's get it straight we are talking about draft value.

We can like Ricky Elmore but it's dumb to use a first round pick on him. Cause he could be available in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. There are players I like who flat out won't get drafted.

I really like LB Mike Mohamed out of Cal but he's not talked about as an elite prospect. So when is it right to take him? Ozzie Newsome is smarter than most on the draft, he liked Terrence Cody but he didn't want to use a first rounder on him. Same thing with Andy Reid and Desean Jackson.

Bringing us back to Brooks Reed he has 1st round measurables. He has 1st round production to go with those measurables. There's no magic film that shows him not being able to turn left. he might go 30 or 40 but he won't be there in the late 2nd where the Jets pick would have been. He certainly isn't gonna be there at 94. So i don't get this whole line of thinking that he's not worth the pick. Based on what?

Tyson Alualu was widely considered a reach last year at 10. But ya know what he played his a$$ off... so a reach is only a reach if it busts. Reed might be a reach if he doesn't play well.

Robert Quinn had a brain tumor and missed a year of football, but he's an elite first rounder. With less sacks and almost every measureable not as good as Brooks Reed. The only category he's better at is 3 inchs of vert. It becomes about reputation, Reed doesn't have a rep so everyone thinks he's overrated.

for every Gholston that didn't pan out there are players like Clay matthews, who yes by the way did run 1.49 in the 10 yard split.

and let me just say further I saw this guy up close and he kicked a$$. He knocked Sherrod around. He beat up on Castonzo and Solder. Those guys are first rounders more or less but Brooks Reed is a 3rd rounder? cause he can't move? How does that make sense? /end rant

Your go-to measurable on DRob was that he had 8% body fat, brother.

As for the rest, time will tell. I'm saying Reed isn't an OLB and if Reed was an OLB he'd be a 4th round pick because he clearly doesn't move like a first round OLB. If he gets picked in the first round, it will be by a team with a 4-3 who is looking for a scrappy brawler. Or, they can just wait 5 rounds and get the guy from the same team who blows Reed away in terms of production.

[bitonti]

he clearly doesn't move like a first round OLB.

this is my problem. You have no proof of this statement. show me a youtube... anything... that shows Brooks Reed not moving. Akeem Ayers "looks" like an OLB but is slower by every measure? should we just ban stop watches?

[Larz]

Time for someone to start a rumor that Von Miller heads up a gay prostitution ring.

lolz

[T0mShane]

this is my problem. You have no proof of this statement. show me a youtube... anything... that shows Brooks Reed not moving. Akeem Ayers "looks" like an OLB but is slower by every measure? should we just ban stop watches?

Dude, this is his best game ever. Look at how many times he just falls down trying to cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoM5_P-Pa0c

As for the stop watches, it was stop watches that magically turned Vernon Gholston from a third rounder into a top ten pick. I'm not sure you want to embrace the ol' "measurables!" canard.

[bitonti]

Dude, this is his best game ever. Look at how many times he just falls down trying to cut.

As for the stop watches, it was stop watches that magically turned Vernon Gholston from a third rounder into a top ten pick. I'm not sure you want to embrace the ol' "measurables!" canard.

um... once? how about 2:08 when he goes into full beast mode and rapes Stanzi

the whole gholston comparison just muddies the waters. Brooks Reed's motor is what scouts like... Gholston's lack of a motor was his downfall.

[T0mShane]

um... once? how about 2:08 when he goes into full beast mode and rapes Stanzi

the whole gholston comparison just muddies the waters. Brooks Reed's motor is what scouts like... Gholston's lack of a motor was his downfall.

Only one way to settle this. I will bet you that in no point during Reed's career does he total more than 6 sacks in a single season. If I win, you have to put my face as the background image on DraftDaddy.com for eternal life. If you win, I have to answer every draft-related question I ever encounter with "I don't know, I have to check with Matt Bitonti and DraftDaddy.com first because he knows and I don't."

[bitonti]

Only one way to settle this. I will bet you that in no point during Reed's career does he total more than 6 sacks in a single season. If I win, you have to put my face as the background image on DraftDaddy.com for eternal life. If you win, I have to answer every draft-related question I ever encounter with "I don't know, I have to check with Matt Bitonti and DraftDaddy.com first because he knows and I don't."

LOL I'm all for bets but those stakes is high

[BroadwayJoe12]

Only one way to settle this. I will bet you that in no point during Reed's career does he total more than 6 sacks in a single season. If I win, you have to put my face as the background image on DraftDaddy.com for eternal life. If you win, I have to answer every draft-related question I ever encounter with "I don't know, I have to check with Matt Bitonti and DraftDaddy.com first because he knows and I don't."

LOL I'm all for bets but those stakes is high

I'll bare witness and or notarize this bet. But to up it, I think Tom Shane should make a video post that gets to be played on the front of draft daddy saying, ala happy gilmore, "I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good-looking. I'm not attractive."

[bitonti]

so either way, win or lose, DD has TS on the front page. Jeez... brutal.

I also like how Gholston doesn't get 1 sack in three years, Reed has to get more than 6 in a single year. Tough crowd.

[Jetsfan80]

I thought the standard bet should be in effect. Tom gets "I <3 Brooks Reed" tattooed on his chest.

[Jetsfan80]

so either way, win or lose, DD has TS on the front page. Jeez... brutal.

Seems to me like Tom's goal in all of this is that he's looking for employment with Draftdaddy.com.

[T0mShane]

so either way, win or lose, DD has TS on the front page. Jeez... brutal.

I also like how Gholston doesn't get 1 sack in three years, Reed has to get more than 6 in a single year. Tough crowd.

Sunnuvabitch!!! If you're dropping a first round pick on a guy exclusively to rush the passer, he better get you more than six measly sacks!!

[bitonti]

Sunnuvabitch!!! If you're dropping a first round pick on a guy exclusively to rush the passer, he better get you more than six measly sacks!!

there was an article in the NYT about Jason Taylor not too long ago. It said that making a QB sack was one of the most statistically improbable feats in all of professional sports. It was like hitting a half court shot in the NBA. think about the number of defensive plays there are per year (say 65 a game times 16 games = 1040 plays) to make 10 sacks is a studly feat. Less than 1% of the plays would be a sack in that amazing season.

just to be clear I dont think Brooks Reed is Demarcus Ware. Von Miller might be... he's going 25 slots higher. Reed might be Anthony Spencer.

[T0mShane]

there was an article in the NYT about Jason Taylor not too long ago. It said that making a QB sack was one of the most statistically improbable feats in all of professional sports. It was like hitting a half court shot in the NBA. think about the number of defensive plays there are per year (say 65 a game times 16 games = 1040 plays) to make 10 sacks is a studly feat. Less than 1% of the plays would be a sack in that amazing season.

just to be clear I dont think Brooks Reed is Demarcus Ware. Von Miller might be... he's going 25 slots higher. Reed might be Anthony Spencer.

You brought that quote up in defense of teh awful of Gholston, I recall. I think it's immaterial. The probability of curing cancer is limited, too, but if I get it I'm sure as hell going to the best cancer doctor I can find and not settling for some quack. You are exonerating all quack pass-rushers because getting a sack is hard to do. Yet, good pass rushers get sacks in spite of the odds. If you're already making excuses for why Reed can't get sacks in the NFL, that is brutal.

[Jetsfan80]

there was an article in the NYT about Jason Taylor not too long ago. It said that making a QB sack was one of the most statistically improbable feats in all of professional sports. It was like hitting a half court shot in the NBA. think about the number of defensive plays there are per year (say 65 a game times 16 games = 1040 plays) to make 10 sacks is a studly feat. Less than 1% of the plays would be a sack in that amazing season.

just to be clear I dont think Brooks Reed is Demarcus Ware. Von Miller might be... he's going 25 slots higher. Reed might be Anthony Spencer.

There are things such as QB pressures/hurries and knockdowns too. Gholston didn't have a whole lot of those either. It's assumed that a guy who gets a lot of sacks also creates hurried throws as a byproduct of his play, which helps the whole defense.

Rex Ryan's defense is the best in the game, not because it gets a lot of sacks (it doesn't, Mangini's got more), but because it creates pressure and forces a sh*t-ton of bad throws.

Also, way to quote Jason Gaylor on that one as part of your defense.

[T0mShane]

There are things such as QB pressures/hurries and knockdowns too. Gholston didn't have a whole lot of those either. It's assumed that a guy who gets a lot of sacks also creates hurried throws as a byproduct of his play, which helps the whole defense.

Rex Ryan's defense is the best in the game, not because it gets a lot of sacks (it doesn't, Mangini's got more), but because it creates pressure and forces a sh*t-ton of bad throws.

Also, way to quote Jason Gaylor on that one as part of your defense.

His defenses never got a ton of sacks in Baltimore, either. Defies conventional wisdom, really.

[bitonti]

If you're already making excuses for why Reed can't get sacks in the NFL, that is brutal.

I think Reed will be a good player but still im not going to enter into that bet. It's a sucker bet to gamble on any of these players to be sack artists. it's just too rare.

fwiw the Jets were 8th last year in sacks. Yet on the message boards the pass rush sucks.

[Damaged89]

I think Reed will be a good player but still im not going to enter into that bet. It's a sucker bet to gamble on any of these players to be sack artists. it's just too rare.

fwiw the Jets were 8th last year in sacks. Yet on the message boards the pass rush sucks.

weren't they dead last in allowing third and long conversions? I remember some horrific stat like that.

[Jetsfan80]

fwiw the Jets were 8th last year in sacks. Yet on the message boards the pass rush sucks.

Most of those were coverage sacks. Only in the Divisional Round game against the Pats and a few other instances did we get real, consistent pressure on the quarterback.

We don't need sacks. We need to make the QB sh*t his pants before throwing the ball wildly.