Jetscode1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Tebow has the "it" factor. The only question is: Does "it" last longer than VYs "it" factor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Tough to argue that, at least for the Broncos. I'm not sure Tebow would work on other teams, whether it be for a refusal to change to that kind of offensive philosophy or having the players to pull it off, but he's definitely the better option for the Broncos. If anything, I think the endless heaps of credit is always a dangerous thing. Just look at the beginning of Sanchez's career, he started off on a nice hot streak to kick off his career and then turned around to end his rookie season with a nice playoff run and before you knew it, the expectations continued to grow well beyond what they ever should have been for him as a player. Tebow is very much on the same path, and if his supporting cast doesn't keep up their end of the bargain, it won't be long before he's getting trashed as the worst QB in the league. I dont man, he did just fine last season when given the chance in a different system. Its not like I started this thread based on opinion. I started it because of what he did last season, how the team rallied around him and how the Broncos let Orton start again as if he had the same effect on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 \ Weird...this is stuff I seemed to talk about all the time but people respond to me with comments like "Von Miller is the real Jesus in Denver"..yet, he was doing the same things with Orton behind center as he is with Tebow. The one thing this article doesnt take into consideration is that second that Tebow was named the starter, they traded his best WR. I just love that nobody will touch this thread. You look back at all the jabs people took at me and how confident everyone was that I was an idiot in this thread, but I've been 100% spot on. Thank you CTM for recognizing my accuracy on this subject. And F Klacko for not being able to admit I was right. Chad Pennington was once thought of as the heir apparent to Joe Montana by some, and that was after about twice the sample size of games Tebow has played. Hell, going into the 2003 season there were people actually debating on television who was better, Pennington or Tom Brady. The Pennington-led Wildcat was once all the rage in the NFL, it was going to revolutionize football. Remember that? Over a long enough timeline, the survival rate to everyone drops to zero. Tebow is 5-1. Tebow has only led his team to more than 18 points once. If not for Denver's defense playing lights out against not exactly the most impressive lineup of QBs, they normally would have lost at least three more of those games if not all of them. Call me when Tebow beats a team with a decent offense or puts up more than 20 points without his opposing QB handing him the ball in the red zone three times. Until then, I will continue to be unimpressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Chad Pennington was once thought of as the heir apparent to Joe Montana by some, and that was after about twice the sample size of games Tebow has played. Hell, going into the 2003 season there were people actually debating on television who was better, Pennington or Tom Brady. The Pennington-led Wildcat was once all the rage in the NFL, it was going to revolutionize football. Remember that? Over a long enough timeline, the survival rate to everyone drops to zero. Tebow is 5-1. Tebow has only led his team to more than 18 points once. If not for Denver's defense playing lights out against not exactly the most impressive lineup of QBs, they normally would have lost at least three more of those games if not all of them. Call me when Tebow beats a team with a decent offense or puts up more than 20 points without his opposing QB handing him the ball in the red zone three times. Until then, I will continue to be unimpressed. Klacko, i think it's been proven that the question in this thread has been answered. Tebow is the better answer for Denver. Maybe they both suck, but it's clear Tebow > Orton .. on Denver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Klacko, i think it's been proven that the question in this thread has been answered. Tebow is the better answer for Denver. Maybe they both suck, but it's clear Tebow > Orton .. on Denver That's fine. He still sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Chad Pennington was once thought of as the heir apparent to Joe Montana by some, and that was after about twice the sample size of games Tebow has played. Hell, going into the 2003 season there were people actually debating on television who was better, Pennington or Tom Brady. The Pennington-led Wildcat was once all the rage in the NFL, it was going to revolutionize football. Remember that? Over a long enough timeline, the survival rate to everyone drops to zero. Tebow is 5-1. Tebow has only led his team to more than 18 points once. If not for Denver's defense playing lights out against not exactly the most impressive lineup of QBs, they normally would have lost at least three more of those games if not all of them. Call me when Tebow beats a team with a decent offense or puts up more than 20 points without his opposing QB handing him the ball in the red zone three times. Until then, I will continue to be unimpressed. Thats all good and great, but Tebow >>> Orton. I was 100% spot on about that topic and you were the loudest most obnoxious person calling me an idiot. And FTR, Tebow isnt running the wildcat. This is the same offense that Vick ran in Atlanta. Its the spread option read...this isnt the first time an NFL team has run it and its been successful in the past. Tebow has literally mastered running it and I dont think its going to be figured out like the wildcat. Especially when he become more consistent as a passer, which he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thats all good and great, but Tebow >>> Orton. I was 100% spot on about that topic and you were the loudest most obnoxious person calling me an idiot. And FTR, Tebow isnt running the wildcat. This is the same offense that Vick ran in Atlanta. Its the spread option read...this isnt the first time an NFL team has run it and its been successful in the past. Tebow has literally mastered running it and I dont think its going to be figured out like the wildcat. Especially when he become more consistent as a passer, which he will. 1. Yeah but that's just because its so much fun to call you an idiot. You get even more defensive than me. 2. I never said Tebow was running the wildcat. 3. Has it really been successful? How many teams won Super Bowls running it? 4. He has shown no signs whatsoever of becoming a more consistent passer. Shannon Sharpe actually made an excellent point about this during his interview with Tebow over the weekend that this particular offense may be hampering his potential improvement as a passer - it certainly did with Vick and he was a significantly better passer to start with than Tebow. 5. Tebow sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 1. Yeah but that's just because its so much fun to call you an idiot. You get even more defensive than me. 2. I never said Tebow was running the wildcat. 3. Has it really been successful? How many teams won Super Bowls running it? 4. He has shown no signs whatsoever of becoming a more consistent passer. Shannon Sharpe actually made an excellent point about this during his interview with Tebow over the weekend that this particular offense may be hampering his potential improvement as a passer - it certainly did with Vick and he was a significantly better passer to start with than Tebow. 5. Tebow sucks. 1. I only get defensive when I know I'm right, like in this situation. You get defensive over everything. Baby. 2. You compared it to the Dolphags running the wildcat and its revolutionizing the game. I pointed out its not the same offense and its been used in the league before with success. 3. No teams have won the SB with it probably because few teams have used it becaues they lack the talent to run it Atlanta was successful enough to get to the NFCCG with it and Mike Vick imploded in a big game, like usual. 4. Shannon Sharpe is a moron. Shame on you for quoting him. Tebow is becoming a better passer with each and every game. You should have heard his presser after the game, he's now seeing the field better and realizes he's almost too protective with the ball. He noted a play where he was trying to keep the ball away from the defender, which he does really well, but he exaggerated it too much and missed his receiver. Sings of improvement. 5. Tebow >>> Sanchez and obvioulsy Orton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 1. I only get defensive when I know I'm right, like in this situation. You get defensive over everything. Baby. 2. You compared it to the Dolphags running the wildcat and its revolutionizing the game. I pointed out its not the same offense and its been used in the league before with success. 3. No teams have won the SB with it probably because few teams have used it becaues they lack the talent to run it Atlanta was successful enough to get to the NFCCG with it and Mike Vick imploded in a big game, like usual. 4. Shannon Sharpe is a moron. Shame on you for quoting him. Tebow is becoming a better passer with each and every game. You should have heard his presser after the game, he's now seeing the field better and realizes he's almost too protective with the ball.He noted a play where he was trying to keep the ball away from the defender, which he does really well, but he exaggerated it too much and missed his receiver. Sings of improvement. 5. Tebow >>> Sanchez and obvioulsy Orton I can only imagine your reaction if Mark Sanchez said the same thing. Your mancrush for this kid is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I can only imagine your reaction if Mark Sanchez said the same thing. Your mancrush for this kid is pathetic. If Mark Sanchez said that in a press conference into his 3rd season, I'd say, its about damn time you stupid model. Tebow saying it 6 games into his starting career, is just a thing of beauty. Tebow >>> Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If Mark Sanchez said that in a press conference into his 3rd season, I'd say, its about damn time you stupid model. Tebow saying it 6 games into his starting career, is just a thing of beauty. Tebow >>> Sanchez It's actually nine games into his starting career. Big fan you are. Although, I understand why you'd mistake him for a rookie, what with his sh*tty play and all. Be honest, if Tebow went to Alabama or Tennessee you'd curse his very existence and be realisitic about his performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 It's actually nine games into his starting career. Big fan you are. Although, I understand why you'd mistake him for a rookie, what with his sh*tty play and all. Be honest, if Tebow went to Alabama or Tennessee you'd curse his very existence and be realisitic about his performance. And what is his record as a starter you little slut...scratch that, enormous slut. I'm very realistic about his ability. All you have to do is read this thread. I also know that the dude is a baller and all he does is win and he's a better QB and Football player than Kyle Orton and Mark Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 And what is his record as a starter you little slut...scratch that, enormous slut. I'm very realistic about his ability. All you have to do is read this thread. I also know that the dude is a baller and all he does is win and he's a better QB and Football player than Kyle Orton and Mark Sanchez. What is Sanchez's record as a starter? I've already established the reality that Denver's defense combined with the lack of quality opposition is more responsible than Tebow and the 17 points per game he leads the Broncos offense to every week, even needing overtime twice just to reach that level. Over a larger sample size the regression to the mean for the Broncos will see them lose significantly more games if Tebow can't start leading them to more than 17 points per game. For as bad as Sanchez has been, the Jets offense average scoring has trended upward per game during his career - 21.8 his rookie year, 22.9 his second, 23.3 this year. I haven't seen anything that suggests that that will improve for the Broncos with Tebow. For the season, the Broncos defense is allowing an average of 23.6 points per game. Since Tebow took over as starter they've been allowing 20, take out the Lions game (the high) and the KC game (the low) and they've been allowing a ridiculous 16.25. Tebow is far from the main reason for their winning streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 What is Sanchez's record as a starter? I've already established the reality that Denver's defense combined with the lack of quality opposition is more responsible than Tebow and the 17 points per game he leads the Broncos offense to every week, even needing overtime twice just to reach that level. Over a larger sample size the regression to the mean for the Broncos will see them lose significantly more games if Tebow can't start leading them to more than 17 points per game. For as bad as Sanchez has been, the Jets offense average scoring has trended upward per game during his career - 21.8 his rookie year, 22.9 his second, 23.3 this year. I haven't seen anything that suggests that that will improve for the Broncos with Tebow. For the season, the Broncos defense is allowing an average of 23.6 points per game. Since Tebow took over as starter they've been allowing 20, take out the Lions game (the high) and the KC game (the low) and they've been allowing a ridiculous 16.25. Tebow is far from the main reason for their winning streak. There is a direct correlation between the Broncos success and Tebow a starter. Tebow >>> Sanchez It aint even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Nothing boring about Tim Tebow. He's the most exciting player in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Nothing boring about Tim Tebow. He's the most exciting player in the NFL. He, was not making me yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What is Sanchez's record as a starter? I've already established the reality that Denver's defense combined with the lack of quality opposition is more responsible than Tebow and the 17 points per game he leads the Broncos offense to every week, even needing overtime twice just to reach that level. Over a larger sample size the regression to the mean for the Broncos will see them lose significantly more games if Tebow can't start leading them to more than 17 points per game. For as bad as Sanchez has been, the Jets offense average scoring has trended upward per game during his career - 21.8 his rookie year, 22.9 his second, 23.3 this year. I haven't seen anything that suggests that that will improve for the Broncos with Tebow. For the season, the Broncos defense is allowing an average of 23.6 points per game. Since Tebow took over as starter they've been allowing 20, take out the Lions game (the high) and the KC game (the low) and they've been allowing a ridiculous 16.25. Tebow is far from the main reason for their winning streak. only klacko would try and base a point off of "regression to the mean" and argue for median over mean while directly contradicting what FO is saying in the same post... what a joker.... "uhhh sir, i highly recommend you make this deal today, i's expecting anchor prices to regress to the mean any day now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 only klacko would try and base a point off of "regression to the mean" and argue for median over mean while directly contradicting what FO is saying in the same post... what a joker.... "uhhh sir, i highly recommend you make this deal today, i's expecting anchor prices to regress to the mean any day now" SO you really believe Tebow is that big of a reason they are winning. The fact that they've played 6 of 7 games against teams with subpar QBs has nothing to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 SO you really believe Tebow is that big of a reason they are winning. The fact that they've played 6 of 7 games against teams with subpar QBs has nothing to do with it? Man are you dense.. I really believe the UPGRADE from Orton to Tebow has contributed greatly to them playing better football... Would I want Tebow as my QB long term, hell no.. But the dudes not turning the ball over and he's draining clock + protecting field position .. these are traits that help an above average defense appear much better when looking at scoring totals, as you are.. Man, the turnovers alone a huge... How many more games would we have won if Sanchez had 2 picks instead of 10 (or whatever he has).. 2? 3? I'd def argue that the Jets today have a better record with Tebow then with Sanchize... 4 sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Man are you dense.. I really believe the UPGRADE from Orton to Tebow has contributed greatly to them playing better football... Would I want Tebow as my QB long term, hell no.. But the dudes not turning the ball over and he's draining clock + protecting field position .. these are traits that help an above average defense appear much better when looking at scoring totals, as you are.. Man, the turnovers alone a huge... How many more games would we have won if Sanchez had 2 picks instead of 10 (or whatever he has).. 2? 3? I'd def argue that the Jets today have a better record with Tebow then with Sanchize... 4 sure And you'd be dead wrong. The QBs Denver faced and their points allowed before Tebow became the starter: Jason Campbell - 23 Andy Dalton - 22 (the Broncos only win of the Orton games comes against a guy making his second career start) Matt Hasselback - 17 Aaron Rodgers - 49 Philip Rivers (at the end of a 4-1 start for the Chargers) - 29 Since Tebow became the starter: Matt Moore (in what I believe was his first start) - 15 Matthew Stafford - 45 Carson Palmer (in his first start) - 24 Matt Cassel/Tyler Palko - 10 Mark Sanchez - (in a terrible, even by his low standards this year, performance) - 13 Philip Rivers (in the latest of a six-game losing streak) - 13 Notice a trend? The Broncos play a good QB, they lose. The Broncos play an average to bad QB, they win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 And you'd be dead wrong. The QBs Denver faced and their points allowed before Tebow became the starter: Jason Campbell - 23 Andy Dalton - 22 (the Broncos only win of the Orton games comes against a guy making his second career start) Matt Hasselback - 17 Aaron Rodgers - 49 Philip Rivers (at the end of a 4-1 start for the Chargers) - 29 Since Tebow became the starter: Matt Moore (in what I believe was his first start) - 15 Matthew Stafford - 45 Carson Palmer (in his first start) - 24 Matt Cassel/Tyler Palko - 10 Mark Sanchez - (in a terrible, even by his low standards this year, performance) - 13 Philip Rivers (in the latest of a six-game losing streak) - 13 Notice a trend? The Broncos play a good QB, they lose. The Broncos play an average to bad QB, they win. Jason Campbell, Matt Hasselbeck and Andy Dalton in the 2nd game of his career are good QB's? Okay. If Tebow was the starter of the NY Jets, they'd be at least 8-3 and probably win the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Jason Campbell, Matt Hasselbeck and Andy Dalton in the 2nd game of his career are good QB's? Okay. If Tebow was the starter of the NY Jets, they'd be at least 8-3 and probably win the SB. Jason Campbell was playing the best football of his career and the Raiders were 4-2 when he got hurt. Andy Dalton was only making his second career start and that's the only game the Broncos won during that stretch. Matt Hasselback is pretty good veteran QB who's led a team to a Super Bowl and has made three Pro Bowls and is probably going to lead the Titans to the AFC South title now that Houston's down to their 3rd QB. With Tebow's 17 points per game and the 21+ that our D is allowing this year we'd be winless right now. Simple math says you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Jason Campbell was playing the best football of his career and the Raiders were 4-2 when he got hurt. Andy Dalton was only making his second career start and that's the only game the Broncos won during that stretch. Matt Hasselback is pretty good veteran QB who's led a team to a Super Bowl and has made three Pro Bowls and is probably going to lead the Titans to the AFC South title now that Houston's down to their 3rd QB. With Tebow's 17 points per game and the 21+ that our D is allowing this year we'd be winless right now. Simple math says you're wrong. There is a direct correlation to the turn around. Benching Orton and starting Tebow. He even almost led another 4th qrt comeback the game they benched Orton vs. the Chargers. All of a sudden, the team was alive. He's a leader. The team plays better and harder for him because they believe in him. He's a Football player. He likes contact. The defense sees him trucking people and they want to do the same for him. He's infectious and the team started winning as soon as he took over. Over the last 2 years, the Broncos are 6-3 under Tebow and 4-14 under Orton. I win, you lose. Face it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 There is a direct correlation to the turn around. Benching Orton and starting Tebow. He even almost led another 4th qrt comeback the game they benched Orton vs. the Chargers. All of a sudden, the team was alive. He's a leader. The team plays better and harder for him because they believe in him. He's a Football player. He likes contact. The defense sees him trucking people and they want to do the same for him. He's infectious and the team started winning as soon as he took over. Over the last 2 years, the Broncos are 6-3 under Tebow and 4-14 under Orton. I win, you lose. Face it. THe Broncos will most likely win this week as they are facing a bad team with a rookie QB. They will lost next week when they play the Pats and Tom Brady. This isn't a difficult equation. If the Broncos are playing a team capable of scoring more than 20 points, they will lose 9 out of 10 times because Tebow CAN'T PUT POINTS ON THE BOARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 And you'd be dead wrong. The QBs Denver faced and their points allowed before Tebow became the starter: Jason Campbell - 23 Andy Dalton - 22 (the Broncos only win of the Orton games comes against a guy making his second career start) Matt Hasselback - 17 Aaron Rodgers - 49 Philip Rivers (at the end of a 4-1 start for the Chargers) - 29 Since Tebow became the starter: Matt Moore (in what I believe was his first start) - 15 Matthew Stafford - 45 Carson Palmer (in his first start) - 24 Matt Cassel/Tyler Palko - 10 Mark Sanchez - (in a terrible, even by his low standards this year, performance) - 13 Philip Rivers (in the latest of a six-game losing streak) - 13 Notice a trend? The Broncos play a good QB, they lose. The Broncos play an average to bad QB, they win. ............................... i remember when qbs had to face each other. Sanchez likes to sack Brady all the time. If he is rly as bad as ur saying then the defenses would be murdering him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 ............................... i remember when qbs had to face each other. Sanchez likes to sack Brady all the time. If he is rly as bad as ur saying then the defenses would be murdering him Sanchez isn't that bad. But he played terribly against Denver and that's not debateable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Jason Campbell, Matt Hasselbeck and Andy Dalton in the 2nd game of his career are good QB's? Okay. It's perfectly Klogical to make that statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's perfectly Klogical to make that statement Why don't you try making a valid point for a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's perfectly Klogical to make that statement Any other day of the week, they suck, they are awful, worse than Sanchez. Today? Good QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Why don't you try making a valid point for a change? i post several paragraphs of valid points from FO, added to it the lack of turnovers and you've ignored it all cause it didn't fit your agenda. I can explain to my dog as many valid points as I want as to why he shouldn't scratch the sh*t out of my doors, but at some point it makes more sense to just swat him on the nose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Any other day of the week, they suck, they are awful, worse than Sanchez. Today? Good QB's. Anyone whose read even 10 of his posts knows that consistency of position isn't something he concerns himself with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 i post several paragraphs of valid points from FO, added to it the lack of turnovers and you've ignored it all cause it didn't fit your agenda. I can explain to my dog as many valid points as I want as to why he shouldn't scratch the sh*t out of my doors, but at some point it makes more sense to just swat him on the nose Whatever troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Jason Campbell, Matt Hasselbeck and Andy Dalton in the 2nd game of his career are good QB's? Okay. If Tebow was the starter of the NY Jets, they'd be at least 8-3 and probably win the SB. Oh good, we've finally reached that point where we're back to the norm of you both being wrong. About damn time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Oh good, we've finally reached that point where we're back to the norm of you both being wrong. About damn time. Which part, 8-3 or probably winning the SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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