Kyle Orton Named Starter

[JustInFudge]

You're not making any case. You just keep posting 3-10, 3-10, 3-10 as if it means something.

Tebow's three starts:

Tebow put up 23 points against Oakland's 20th ranked scoring D, .2 points below the average allowed by Oakland's D. Loss

Tebow put up 23 points against Houston's 29th ranked scoring D, which was 3.7 points less than the average allowed by Houston's defense. Win

Tebow put up 28 points against San Diego's 10th ranked scoring D after the Chargers had already been eliminated from playoff contention. Loss

What, exactly, was so impressive about any of those performances?

It was his first 3 starts and he played very well and the team reacted by winning 1 and making the other games competitive...unlike the games under Orton's "leadership". Thats what is impressive. 850, 7.

3-10

suck it

I wouldn't disagree with the CPF comparison, although I'm not sure he's proven himself to be as horridly anti-clutch as Chadwick, so it's the only reason I think he might have a shot with the right team.

As far as the near trade, that is undoubtedly a very strange situation. It's like he's the Tony Sparano of quarterbacks or something. Part of me wonders if more than anything, they want to make sure everyone involved with the team feels like Tebow has earned the job once he eventually gets it, and forcing him to have to step up and beat out the prior year's starter is how to do that. Or maybe he really has been that awful so far in camp and this is his wake up call... who the hell knows.

Now thats a good point and it was the purpose of the discussion...not the open Tebow bashing that I knew would come with and not surprised by the source.

That would make sense to me...even though I do believe how well he played and how the team reallied around him would make me think you werent just handing him the starting role..but I do see that perspective.

[Boozer76]

Tebow had 7 TD's in his first 3 games as a starter...you do the math.

Maybe, that offense isnt as bad as everyone thinks. The point total production didnt drop off at all with Tebow. In fact, he raised the offense from the dead when Orton failed to produce a TD in the 2 straight games.

Still doesnt change the premise here, Orton isnt going to win you a thing. Everyone KNOWS this. You dont KNOW, what Tebow can do for your team. You can only speculate.

Apparently the coaching staff knows, as they have decided to keep Orton and potentially move Tebow behind Quinn as a backup. I'll take their word for it.

[JustInFudge]

Apparently the coaching staff knows, as they have decided to keep Orton and potentially move Tebow behind Quinn as a backup. I'll take their word for it.

Yes, but the flip flopping makes it hard to trust them, no?

4 days ago, Orton was on the trade block, Tebow was the starter...now its totally different. Like I said, part of me thinks they are trying to generate more interest around him.

If they have such little confidence in Tebow, why were they willing to trade Orton?

[Klecko73isGod]

It was his first 3 starts and he played very well and the team reacted by winning 1 and making the other games competitive...unlike the games under Orton's "leadership". Thats what is impressive. 850, 7.

3-10

suck it

Now thats a good point and it was the purpose of the discussion...not the open Tebow bashing that I knew would come with and not surprised by the source.

That would make sense to me...even though I do believe how well he played and how the team reallied around him would make me think you werent just handing him the starting role..but I do see that perspective.

That was amazing analysis. You really should be working for ESPN providing that in depth level of insight.

It's all about the intangibles. TTF.

[JustInFudge]

That was amazing analysis. You really should be working for ESPN providing that in depth level of insight.

It's all about the intangibles. TTF.

Right because leadership isnt important for the QB position.

Whats TTF?

[JasonFabinisBackhair]

Yes, but the flip flopping makes it hard to trust them, no?

4 days ago, Orton was on the trade block, Tebow was the starter...now its totally different. Like I said, part of me thinks they are trying to generate more interest around him.

If they have such little confidence in Tebow, why were they willing to trade Orton?

I think Denver was trying to get rid of Orton before camp so they could sell the team on Tebow being the guy. However, Orton has looked so much better than Tebow in camp that it is impossible to keep Tebow at the number 1 spot. There would be a mutiny if Tebow was named the starter, apparently Orton has been head and shoulders above Tebow and it's obvious to everyone.

[Klecko73isGod]

Right because leadership isnt important for the QB position.

Whats TTF?

C'mon, you really can't figure it out?

Intangibles....

TTF = CPF.

/realtalk

[slats]

Meh, Orton isnt going to ever win you anything significant...be a decent starter...sure. Very CPF type discussion here.

Serious question though, thrusting him back into the starting role after being on the trading block - are they just trying to gain more interest for a potential trade?

Nope.

This the final year of his contract. He'll leave next year as a free agent.

He's starting in Denver because he's far and away their best option. So much so that they're forgoing anything they might be able get in a trade for him plus paying him $8M or so for one year's work.

Face it, the current regime in Denver thinks Tebow sucks.

[JustInFudge]

C'mon, you really can't figure it out?

Intangibles....

TTF = CPF.

/realtalk

KOF = CPF

TTF = ?

Nope.

This the final year of his contract. He'll leave next year as a free agent.

He's starting in Denver because he's far and away their best option. So much so that they're forgoing anything they might be able get in a trade for him plus paying him $8M or so for one year's work.

Face it, the current regime in Denver thinks Tebow sucks.

3-10

[ECURB]

This is really sad watching Jif do this to himself...

[Boozer76]

Yes, but the flip flopping makes it hard to trust them, no?

4 days ago, Orton was on the trade block, Tebow was the starter...now its totally different. Like I said, part of me thinks they are trying to generate more interest around him.

If they have such little confidence in Tebow, why were they willing to trade Orton?

Truthfully, and I'm just speculating, I feel that the ownership wants Tebow to be the guy simply from a marketing standpoint. The new coaching staff really hadn't seen him up close because camps weren't even opened up when the trade talks started. I think once Fox and his crew got to see Tebow up close and personal they decided they will not put their jobs on the line for the kid. Bottom line is Fox is fully invested in the decision to start Tebow or not. He can't just start Tebow, fail miserably, and then turn around and say "hey, he wasn't my guy". He needs to get all 52 other players to buy into his philosphy as the new HC. If he starts Tebow when it's grossly apparent that Tebow isn't nearly ready and Orton is head and shoulders the better option, he loses his credibility as a leader. That team will know that he isn't the one in charge and that he is nothing more than a figurehead while the owners make all the football decisions. John Fox is not that type of HC.

[slats]

3-10

I get it, you've got nothing.

Expect to see a lot of Gator gear and bibles at Calgary Stampeders home games in a year or two.

[JustInFudge]

Truthfully, and I'm just speculating, I feel that the ownership wants Tebow to be the guy simply from a marketing standpoint. The new coaching staff really hadn't seen him up close because camps weren't even opened up when the trade talks started. I think once Fox and his crew got to see Tebow up close and personal they decided they will not put their jobs on the line for the kid. Bottom line is Fox is fully invested in the decision to start Tebow or not. He can't just start Tebow, fail miserably, and then turn around and say "hey, he wasn't my guy". He needs to get all 52 other players to buy into his philosphy as the new HC. If he starts Tebow when it's grossly apparent that Tebow isn't nearly ready and Orton is head and shoulders the better option, he loses his credibility as a leader. That team will know that he isn't the one in charge and that he is nothing more than a figurehead while the owners make all the football decisions. John Fox is not that type of HC.

This I can see...but I do think Fox could try him and say..."see"...if he doesnt work out.

I get it, you've got nothing.

Expect to see a lot of Gator gear and bibles at Calgary Stampeders home games in a year or two.

You've got nothing. You keep telling me how a QB that went 3-10 and got yanked for a rookie "who isnt cut out of the NFL" gives his team the best chance to win.

If you're in the situation...does it even matter?

[slats]

Tebow's a black QB who isn't black. That's the worst kind of black QB.

[JustInFudge]

This is really sad watching Jif do this to himself...

What am I doing to myself?

[Vicious89x]

Tebow's a black QB who isn't black. That's the worst kind of black QB.

Reverse racism. This is so mean and cruel. Look at Timmy, he is so good for the NFL! He is inspiring! He win! His stats even prove that he wins! He basically does everything right.

Besides play QB.

[ECURB]

What am I doing to myself?

The way you are defending Tebow will crush any credibility you have with football related opinions... when he is out of the NFL 3 years from now people will still bring up the fact that YOU thought he was good...

[Teh Bumble]

Jesus wants Tebow to play.

I have it on good authority, that he does not.

[ECURB]

[Boozer76]

This I can see...but I do think Fox could try him and say..."see"...if he doesnt work out.

Based on the reports thus far, it sounds like he has. Not being able to make simple calls at the line and being grossly inaccurate with your throws while playing in shorts with no pressure constitutes an issue. That's the kind of stuff that gets players injured, including himself. Kyle Orton is not going to win any awards as a great QB, but he is your middle of the road decent player at the position. This is not throwing the rookie to the fire because your only other option is a guy like Kellen Clemens. Kyle Orton has shown some success and competence on the field. Tebow has to prove he can be better than Orton. It starts with the basics, and thus far Tebow hasn't done that.

[Teh Bumble]

What am I doing to myself?

Where I come from, we call it "doin' the hibbiddy-dibbiddy"

[JustInFudge]

The way you are defending Tebow will crush any credibility you have with football related opinions... when he is out of the NFL 3 years from now people will still bring up the fact that YOU thought he was good...

Then you havent been reading this thread. I never said he was good or he's going to be good. I said, he played well, when given the chance and exceeded everyone's expectations.

I'm defending him because people are acting like the know, Tebow cant play at this level. My point is, how? When given a chance, he proved he could.

Further, my point is more so based on Orton being the mush, than anything else. When your QB went 3-10 and got yanked for a guy who "in 3 years will be out of the NFL"...how does he give you the best chance to win?

And I really have no concern if someone bumps this thread to say..."JiF is dumb"...I know I'm dumb and I've been wrong many times before...and I'm not even making a prediction here, just saying Orton sucks and Tebow's an unknown.

[Klecko73isGod]

Then you havent been reading this thread. I never said he was good or he's going to be good. I said, he played well, when given the chance and exceeded everyone's expectations.

I'm defending him because people are acting like the know, Tebow cant play at this level. My point is, how? When given a chance, he proved he could.

Further, my point is more so based on Orton being the mush, than anything else. When your QB went 3-10 and got yanked for a guy who "in 3 years will be out of the NFL"...how does he give you the best chance to win?

And I really have no concern if someone bumps this thread to say..."JiF is dumb"...I know I'm dumb and I've been wrong many times before...and I'm not even making a prediction here, just saying Orton sucks and Tebow's an unknown.

End thread.

[Boozer76]

Then you havent been reading this thread. I never said he was good or he's going to be good. I said, he played well, when given the chance and exceeded everyone's expectations.

I'm defending him because people are acting like the know, Tebow cant play at this level. My point is, how? When given a chance, he proved he could.

Further, my point is more so based on Orton being the mush, than anything else. When your QB went 3-10 and got yanked for a guy who "in 3 years will be out of the NFL"...how does he give you the best chance to win?

And I really have no concern if someone bumps this thread to say..."JiF is dumb"...I know I'm dumb and I've been wrong many times before...and I'm not even making a prediction here, just saying Orton sucks and Tebow's an unknown.

That mush QB threw 20 TD's and 9 INT's and over 3500 yds. His D allowed over 29 points per game. Why is it so difficult for you to see that going 3-10 has nothing to do with his performance on the field? He wasn't "yanked". He was benched because they figured they might as well give the kid some experience in garbage time and there was no point putting Orton out there anymore. You keep pointing to 3-10 like it was all Orton's fault. Honestly, Orton probably was the least responsible factor in the team's overall record.

[ECURB]

Then you havent been reading this thread. I never said he was good or he's going to be good. I said, he played well, when given the chance and exceeded everyone's expectations.

I'm defending him because people are acting like the know, Tebow cant play at this level. My point is, how? When given a chance, he proved he could.

Further, my point is more so based on Orton being the mush, than anything else. When your QB went 3-10 and got yanked for a guy who "in 3 years will be out of the NFL"...how does he give you the best chance to win?

And I really have no concern if someone bumps this thread to say..."JiF is dumb"...I know I'm dumb and I've been wrong many times before...and I'm not even making a prediction here, just saying Orton sucks and Tebow's an unknown.

Tebow can't beat out that slouch... you fail

[Bleedin Green]

Reverse racism. This is so mean and cruel. Look at Timmy, he is so good for the NFL! He is inspiring! He win! His stats even prove that he wins! He basically does everything right.

Besides play QB.

The phrase "reverse racism" is racist, you racist.

[Jetsfan80]

LeBron James decided to chime in on Tebow on Twitter:

"Listened to Merril Hoge today on SC and he was just blasting Tebow. The man hasn't even play a full season and its only his 2nd year in," James wrote. "Guys get on that TV and act like they was all WORLD when they played. How bout encouraging him and wishing him the best instead of hating!!"

Tim Tebow will succeed in the NFL. He's a hard worker, a student of the game, a natural born leader and most of all a WINNER! It takes time and he'll be nice.

Well I guess that settles it.

[Klecko73isGod]

LeBron James decided to chime in on Tebow on Twitter:

Well I guess that settles it.

I love how LeBron had appointed himself as Tebow's defender.

[JustInFudge]

That mush QB threw 20 TD's and 9 INT's and over 3500 yds. His D allowed over 29 points per game. Why is it so difficult for you to see that going 3-10 has nothing to do with his performance on the field? He wasn't "yanked". He was benched because they figured they might as well give the kid some experience in garbage time and there was no point putting Orton out there anymore. You keep pointing to 3-10 like it was all Orton's fault. Honestly, Orton probably was the least responsible factor in the team's overall record.

Was it garbage time when they were, 3-7?, 3-8?, 3-9???? He was benched because he went 2 straight games without producing a TD and threw 3 picks against Arizona.

[ECURB]

Was it garbage time when they were, 3-7?, 3-8?, 3-9???? He was benched because he went 2 straight games without producing a TD and threw 3 picks against Arizona.

Tebow couldn't beat out that bum? Wow Tebow must REALLY suck.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I would not be surprised if at the end of it all Tebow only becomes the Brad Smith for the Broncos. Maybe run some gadget plays!

The Borncos organization seems to acknowledge as much. They wanted to give Tebow a shot for one season and once he sucked get ready for drafting the next 1st round pick QB. But the non trade of Orton but a halt to that line of thinking.

[Klecko73isGod]

http://www.sportspickle.com/news/7472/tim-tebow-using-criticism-as-motivation-to-not-be-quite-so-terrible

Tim Tebow Using Criticism as Motivation to Not be Quite So Terrible

August 5, 2011.

For the first time in his football career, Tim Tebow is facing adversity. He has lost his starting job in Denver and has faced growing criticism from the media for his play. But ever the optimist, and always full of faith, Tebow is using the words of critics to fuel his fire.

“I heard some guy say on TV that I don’t belong on an NFL team as a quarterback,” said Tebow. “‘ppreciate that. I will cling to a third-string role until my contract runs out or until I am given a chance to start for a CFL or UFL team, I guarantee it.”

Entering training camp, it was presumed that Tebow would be Denver’s starter and that the Broncos would trade Kyle Orton to Miami, but Tebow’s poor play has elevated Orton to starter and pushed Tebow down the depth chart.

“On the first day of practice, Tim threw an interception into triple coverage and I reminded him not to throw into triple coverage again,” said head coach John Fox. “He said: ‘‘ppreciate that,’ and then tried even harder to complete passes into triple coverage. They all got intercepted.”

Denver offensive coordinator Mike McCoy relates a similar story about Tebow.

“One of the bathrooms down the hall from the weight room is locked because the janitors use it for storage now,” said McCoy. “I saw Tim trying to get in and said: ‘Hey, Tim, you can’t get in there. It’s locked.’ And he responded: ‘ppreciate that,’ and then proceeded to spend 20 minutes punching and kicking at the door until he broke through, I guess thinking I had issued him some sort of challenge. The problem is not so much that Tim is a bad football player, it’s more that he’s not incredibly bright.”

Tebow says that no matter what happens, he knows he can play in the NFL.

“All these critics drive me to be better,” he said. “I get up earlier than anyone I know each day to get better, and also to scour the Internet to read negative things being said about me, which is taking more and more time of late. I’ve been getting up at 3:00 a.m. the last few weeks.”

But if Tebow’s football career does fail, he has many supporters willing to help him out.

“Tim, if this doesn’t work, I would be happy to give you a job doing odd jobs around my house,” Fox said. “Say, $15 bucks an hour or so?”

“I really appreciate that,” said Tebow. “I’ll get back to you, okay? Please don’t hire anyone else just yet.”

[Jetsfan80]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp11/story/_/id/6851147/denver-broncos-tim-tebow-happy-camper-many-critics

Tim Tebow remains upbeat

Updated: August 11, 2011, 9:12 AM ET

ESPN.com news services

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Tim Tebow insists he's a happy camper unfazed by his many critics who are blasting him over his inconsistent performances at the Denver Broncos training camp.

"I just have fun, you know, playing football," Tebow said. "I love doing that, and so when I get an opportunity, just play. It feels good. And I love doing it, so you know I'm not really down, no."

Tebow has been the subject of intense scrutiny this summer. Many expected him to be thrust into the starting role this season, but trade talks regarding Kyle Orton fizzled and Orton has been the clear No. 1 QB in Denver since the first day of camp.

Tebow? He looks as raw as he did last year as a rookie.

The popular but unpolished second-year pro from Florida is still trying to morph from a star college quarterback who relied on his legs and trademark jump pass into a drop-back, pocket passer in the pros.

Some scouts thought it could take two years or more for Tebow to make the transition from combination college quarterback to prototypical pocket passer. Others argued his success in college, his passion for football and his work ethic would make the transition smoother and shorter.

John Elway, the Broncos' Hall of Fame quarterback and chief of football operations, has said Tebow is a great athlete who needs to become a great quarterback, and that starts with becoming a pocket passer.

So, Tebow worked all offseason taking snaps under center and getting out of his comfort zone in the shotgun, but the lockout hurt him immensely. He wasn't able to augment his notorious work ethic with coaching tips from the new regime until two weeks ago.

Tebow still has flaws in his footwork and his throwing mechanics and decision-making which render many of his passes wildly incomplete and arm his critics with fresh material.

In the face of tough times and constant criticism, Tebow said he's keeping his head up. He used the word "fun" 11 times in a 5½-minute chat with reporters coming off the field Wednesday.

"Am I having fun? I am having fun," he said. "I enjoy playing this game."

Listed as Orton's primary backup on the first depth chart, Tebow said he expects to be the second Broncos quarterback to play in Denver's preseason opener at Dallas on Thursday night.

Broncos coach John Fox confirmed that plan to ESPN's Ed Werder on Wednesday. Fox said Orton and the other starters are expected to play 12 to 15 plays. and that Tebow and Brady Quinn will lead the offense for most of the remaining three quarters, though rookie Adam Weber might also play.

Fox said he has made no firm decisions at the position and considers the quarterback competition open.

"I want to have fun because I'm playing the game I love. But also to compete, try to be able to put some drives in the end zone, because that's ultimately your goal, and then just execute the offense, right audibles, right 'hots,' right sights, right checks and just lead the guys out there and have fun doing it," Tebow said.

Tebow said he hasn't been given an indication about how many snaps he'll get.

Tebow's supporters suggest the true evaluation of Tebow should come in competition because he's always been a "gamer" who steps up and shines on game day even if his practices are spotty.

"Well, everything counts: practice, meeting, walkthrough, but I think there's a little extra credit in games because that's when the people are watching," Tebow said. "That's when the pressure's on. And that's when you really have to step up and see if you can cut it or not."

Tebow said he's eager to face the Cowboys and show the progress he's made as a pocket passer.

Tebow's improvisational skills worked in his favor at Florida but have provided mixed results in the NFL, where he suffered bruised ribs on a touchdown run in last year's preseason. He did run for six scores last year while throwing for six more.

Yet, Tebow demurred when asked if live action is how he can showcase his entire skill set.

"Well, yeah, I think some. But also I don't think that's something that I necessarily want to show, or feel like I have to show, because I want to do everything in the pocket and be the best pocket passer I can be and everything else and making great decisions," Tebow said.

"And then when stuff breaks down, then let my athletic ability take over to make plays. But I think that's something that they believe and they know that I can do at times. And so, it's not something like I have to show that necessarily."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[JustInFudge]

Kyle Orton, 3 turnovers in a home loss to the Raiders.

Man, he's soooooo much better than Tebow.

I mean, did you see that offensive production. 13 pts by an Orton led offense at home. AMAZING!!!

But at least Brandon Lloyd is still able to pad his stats with Orton throwing to him which is more important than actually scoring and winning a Football game.

[slats]

Kyle Orton, 3 turnovers in a home loss to the Raiders.

Man, he's soooooo much better than Tebow.

I mean, did you see that offensive production. 13 pts by an Orton led offense at home. AMAZING!!!

But at least Brandon Lloyd is still able to pad his stats with Orton throwing to him which is more important than actually scoring and winning a Football game.

Sanchez sucks, Tebow doesn't.

Got it.