75 replies to this topic

[slats]

Maybe for the draft if you're going to say that the coach doesn't get chance to see every draft eligible player though that certainly isn't true for potential first round picks and Veteran Free Agents. Player evaluation is player evaluation.

If Rex had a say in drafting Wilkerson and Coples, then he didn't do too badly.

As for FAs, I'd be wary of Rex's input, especially when it comes to offensive players who had success against his defense. He's an emotional and proud guy. Tannenbaum never realized that, even though it was painfully obvious from the outside. Idzik is supposed to have his own ideas, and have a strong will of his own. Necessary qualities when dealing with Rex, IMHO. They should listen to each other, but ultimately Idzik needs to make the decisions.

[slats]

Rex beer goggle wearer here. You can blame Rex for the draft picks and/or Mangini, but if that is the case, what the **** does Tannenbaum bring to the table? I can see deferring to the coach about specific players (Rex wants Coples, Tanny has Chandler Jones rated higher) but the GM has to stand up to the coach and say WE NEED OFFENSE at some ****ing point or he is a meaningless spectator. Either it's the GM's fault for being a sh*tty talent evaluator or the GM's fault for being a weakassed bitch.

No. You can't. You can blame the coach for coaching and the GM for GMing. If the GM is delegating all the GMing to the coach why have him?

Seems really clear to me. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to grasp.

Looks like Woody finally grasped it, anyway.

[unbanmadmike1]

If Rex had a say in drafting Wilkerson and Coples, then he didn't do too badly.

As for FAs, I'd be wary of Rex's input, especially when it comes to offensive players who had success against his defense. He's an emotional and proud guy. Tannenbaum never realized that, even though it was painfully obvious from the outside. Idzik is supposed to have his own ideas, and have a strong will of his own. Necessary qualities when dealing with Rex, IMHO. They should listen to each other, but ultimately Idzik needs to make the decisions.

If he gets credit for those picks he gets blame for all the other awful ones and the lack of any good offensive players picked.

[slats]

If he gets credit for those picks he gets blame for all the other awful ones and the lack of any good offensive players picked.

What do you want me to say here? I think I've been pretty clear that I want the personnel department to handle personnel, and the coach to handle coaching.

I'm simply agreeing with you that the coach might have more valuable input in top picks than he might have in the rest of the draft. Sorry.

[BroadwayJoe12]

THIS head coach. Once it was clear that he wasn't going to be fired.

Fair enough, to each his own. I personally think Rex is a valuable talent evaluator when it comes to defensive lineman and most defensive players in general; I just don't think he should be allowed any type of unilateral or even advanced decision making when it comes to drafting or negotiating with players. He's too emotional. I, however, fully believe he should give Idzik advice on certain players if it's asked of him and at that point, it's up to Idzik to assess that advice and use it in conjunction with everything else he's heard.

[T0mShane]

Fair enough, to each his own. I personally think Rex is a valuable talent evaluator when it comes to defensive lineman and most defensive players in general; I just don't think he should be allowed any type of unilateral or even advanced decision making when it comes to drafting or negotiating with players. He's too emotional. I, however, fully believe he should give Idzik advice on certain players if it's asked of him and at that point, it's up to Idzik to assess that advice and use it in conjunction with everything else he's heard.

Even the great coaches will pork a draft because they look for specific players to do specific things, like block a specific DE in their division or slow down a TE that beat them up once. Belichick and Parcells come immediately to mind. It's the GM who had to assert the long range view and get players that can stay on the field for ten years. You give the coach a choice between two DEs you've scouted, or two RBs on your board maybe, but you can't let him dictate to you what players he wants if it contradicts the long-term plan.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Even the great coaches will pork a draft because they look for specific players to do specific things, like block a specific DE in their division or slow down a TE that beat them up once. Belichick and Parcells come immediately to mind. It's the GM who had to assert the long range view and get players that can stay on the field for ten years. You give the coach a choice between two DEs you've scouted, or two RBs on your board maybe, but you can't let him dictate to you what players he wants if it contradicts the long-term plan.

Agreed. I think Rex can be a valuable asset in evaluating certain talent if asked of him, but it's ultimately Idzik's job to compile and assess all information and make the best informed decision for the franchise. I also agree with the idea of presenting him with player a or b, but his opinion becomes immediately voided when it veers from "his throwing motion has a hitch" to "his players really like him." I say ask him his advice about certain defensive players, he's shown to be adept at this, but then use that in tandem with your additional information. I hope Idzik can be the adult in the room and choose what he feels is best for the franchise; if he ****s up, that happens, but at least it won't be for allowing the HC to bully him away from his original choice.

[SenorGato]

Oh man props to Tannenbaum for this:

"You'll see in the next six weeks how it (salary cap) will play out. There was a plan...there's a very detailed plan there." Said he wouldn't be surprised if Idzik followed it maybe with a few small tweaks and that he will gladly come back to the radio and talk about it later.

Pew pew!

[Scott Dierking]

Oh man props to Tannenbaum for this:

"You'll see in the next six weeks how it (salary cap) will play out. There was a plan...there's a very detailed plan there." Said he wouldn't be surprised if Idzik followed it maybe with a few small tweaks and that he will gladly come back to the radio and talk about it later.

Pew pew!

Getting the salary cap in check is not any problem, we all know the moves that will be made there in order to get in compliance. The problem is adding quality players back, and to still maintain the cap. That will take some real GMing there, and it can't be a shopping spree.

[SenorGato]

Getting the salary cap in check is not any problem, we all know the moves that will be made there in order to get in compliance. The problem is adding quality players back, and to still maintain the cap. That will take some real GMing there, and it can't be a shopping spree.

You don't have to spend wildly to land quality players and all shopping sprees are relative. The current GM comes from a franchise where it's a bunch of formerly misfit toys. Their QB isn't even 6' tall. Mike Williams gave them a solid season. Marshawn Lynch was bought when no one liked him. Red Bryant and Alan Branch were star college DTs from solid programs that had first round talent but motor questions. Zach Miller was a good TE, got hurt, and they were able to buy him low.

Jete should be well set up for New GM to show off some scouting acumen and pursue young FAs that are a little bit down on their luck right now but offer good upside. A larger shopping spree can happen later.

[pedro55]

Even the great coaches will pork a draft because they look for specific players to do specific things, like block a specific DE in their division or slow down a TE that beat them up once. Belichick and Parcells come immediately to mind. It's the GM who had to assert the long range view and get players that can stay on the field for ten years. You give the coach a choice between two DEs you've scouted, or two RBs on your board maybe, but you can't let him dictate to you what players he wants if it contradicts the long-term plan.

You need a long term plan. And most likely a HC and GM need to come to an agreement on what that longterm plan is or isn't. Some coaches are good at adapting, others not so much. But if a coach is building a certain kind of team with certain kinds of players,
a GM shouldn't just go out and draft players that don't fit into that system at all or players who can't adapt to that system.

I mean, even look at the QB position. If you're running an old school Oakland Raiders long ball offense and the GM fights to draft a guy like Sanchez or Pennington, how is that having a plan? That plan is a plan to get a coach fired and replace them with a new coach who fits into that GMs system. Except the GM isn't a coach and shouldn't be. So if they start building their own plan for the future without ever caring what coach is in place, you wind up like the Chargers and AJ Smith. Overrated and eventually fall into hell because you wind up with a coach who has no balls. And it becomes the reverse of what happened with Rex Ryan and Tanny. And still, you don't win.

A GM and HC need some kind of plan together. You need two guys who have balls. Two guys who can adapt and change. Two guys who aren't afraid of the owner, aren't afraid of each other. Thats when a real successful plan can be built. If you have a GM and HC who just bump heads and never agree to anything, you wind up with nothing. Because that HC needs to know how to use the players a GM likes and drafts. Otherwise you wind up with guys like Tebow who are nothing but distractions who never even play and are a waste of picks, time, and a roster spot.

Edited by pedro55, 30 January 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[JetsFanInDenver]

At this point the only hope the JETS have is:

* Trade Revis. Get some picks in the next 2 drafts.
* Trade down lower in the first round and accumulate some more picks.
* Get an average QB for the interim.
* Stay with Sanchez and make him the richest clipboard holder in all of the world.
* Stay with Holmes and hire a person to stoke his ego all the time and tell him how all those drops are not his fault!
* Draft LB, TE, OL, RB this draft.
* Draft a long term QB next draft.


And then pray all those guys drafted pan out!

[SenorGato]

AJ Smith's problem is that the tippy top tier pass rusher he drafted to build the D around was finished by 25. Losing a talent of that caliber can set any franchise back years...Their D is only now starting to recover from that blow.

[unbanmadmike1]

At this point the only hope the JETS have is:

* Trade Revis. Get some picks in the next 2 drafts.
* Trade down lower in the first round and accumulate some more picks.
* Get an average QB for the interim.
* Stay with Sanchez and make him the richest clipboard holder in all of the world.
* Stay with Holmes and hire a person to stoke his ego all the time and tell him how all those drops are not his fault!
* Draft LB, TE, OL, RB this draft.
* Draft a long term QB next draft.


And then pray all those guys drafted pan out!

Not bad.

[IPack]

However, many Rex lovers on this board believe this was Tannenbaums plan, and poor Rex had to suffer the consequences of Tannys decisions, that Rex was so clearly fighting against, because he wanted to build a dynamic offense from day one.

If this isnt wishful thinking I don't know what is. Its just not how things are done. Are you sure that Rex or his family members aren't slipping you cash for these posts?

[JetNation]

Mike Francesa had Mike Tannenbaum on his show Tuesday and they took a look back at what went wrong for the Jets this past season.  Mike Tannenbaum admitted there was depth issues, especially at skill positions and said the injuries hurt this team.  Tanny also discussed the acquisition of Tim Tebow and what the thought process was when they made the move.

Here is a discussion thread from our NY Jets forum on this interview.

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