Jordan impressive for Raiders

[Savage69]

Sav-That WAS NOT the premise. Only a FOOL would argue that Martin has less draw plays than Jordan, just due to teh basic fact that he has more carries OVERALL. That was NEVER the point being discussed?

Are you now DENYING that you made the premise that Martin gets MANY USELESS YARDS in 3rd and long situations? Stat padding yards? Are you now DENYING that you had that premise? A simple yes or no will suffice.

I said Martin got alot of Yards with those Hackett

Draw plays!! And did those yd's go on his stats??

Yes they did..And I NEVER said just 3rd and Long!

I said Draw plays Period!! And if only a "Fool"

would argue why did you??

Oh..And no doubt some of those Draw plays were

3rd and 15 or what ever..But Hackett loved the

Draw play or are you now saying he didn't??

[Scott Dierking]

Talk about dancing-You make a pixyish Shirley Temple look like a klutz

Show me where I EVER said Jordan got more draw plays than Martin as a WHOLE. If you can't produce it , I guess we can only assume you are making it up.

You are now saying that the draw play, by itself, not related to circumsstance (down and distance) is a BAD play? Or a play where stats shopuld not count?

Me, if I find a play my player is good at, I run it. But that is just me, I guess.

I am glad that I proved to you that Martin did not have empty yards on 3rd down and long plays, but your continuance to dance around the other aspects is highly entartaining. Thanks

[Savage69]

Talk about dancing-You make a pixyish Shirley Temple look like a klutz

Show me where I EVER said Jordan got more draw plays than Martin as a WHOLE. If you can't produce it , I guess we can only assume you are making it up.

You are now saying that the draw play, by itself, not related to circumsstance (down and distance) is a BAD play? Or a play where stats shopuld not count?

Me, if I find a play my player is good at, I run it. But that is just me, I guess.

I am glad that I proved to you that Martin did not have empty yards on 3rd down and long plays, but your continuance to dance around the other aspects is highly entartaining. Thanks

Scottie seek help your Delusional!! To me a 3rd

and long Draw play is only good if you get a first

down! If Martin run's a 3rd and 15 and gets 10 yds

what good did it do Team wise..Yes it pads his

stats but what else? And If Dinger see's Martin is

a Champ at Draw plays I'm sure he'll heed your

advice and Run the same amount as Hackett did..But

somehow I think not..

[Scott Dierking]

Ahh, but Savage-As I clearly showed you, the Jets ran Martin in a situation of 3rd and more than 6 a grand total of SIX times the whole year, last year. 6 times. Is that PADDING?

Actually, your boy Lamont ran it in that situation MORE times last year.

Again, WHAT IS YOUR POINT.

And you still have FAILED to show me where I was wrong. I can only assume that you have no evidence

[Maxman]

To me a 3rd and long Draw play is only good if you get a first down! If Martin run's a 3rd and 15 and gets 10 yds what good did it do Team wise..Yes it pads his stats but what else?

Really don't want to get in the middle of you two. But the basic problem with Hackett is that he was too conservative and 3rd and long. 3rd and almost long as well.

Anyhow if it is 3rd and 12 and you run for 8 yards it wasn't being done to pad Curtis' stats. It was being done to add yardage to the punt.

Now with the Aussie here I say throw on 3rd and 20.

[Savage69]

Ahh, but Savage-As I clearly showed you, the Jets ran Martin in a situation of 3rd and more than 6 a grand total of SIX times the whole year, last year. 6 times. Is that PADDING?

Actually, your boy Lamont ran it in that situation MORE times last year.

Again, WHAT IS YOUR POINT.

And you still have FAILED to show me where I was wrong. I can only assume that you have no evidence

Scottie this is getting silly! You wanted to show where Martin in his 371 carries

had only 6 times where he ran a Draw play on 3rd and more then 6 yds? That wasn't my point but fine..And you were saying Jordan had more draws then Martin at 3rd and 6+?? Is that correct??

[Savage69]

Really don't want to get in the middle of you two. But the basic problem with Hackett is that he was too conservative and 3rd and long. 3rd and almost long as well.

Anyhow if it is 3rd and 12 and you run for 8 yards it wasn't being done to pad Curtis' stats. It was being done to add yardage to the punt.

Now with the Aussie here I say throw on 3rd and 20.

I agree with you Maxie! Hackett was draw play

crazy IMHO! But Scottie say's that was a great

play for Martin! I said Hackett called too many

draw plays on ANY DOWN But Dance Fever Fan can't

understand that!

But here's a question..

If Martin was still Hurting from 2002 during the

03 Season and the Jets were out of the Playoffs

wouldn't that have been a good time to rest those

sore ankles?? Granted going into DEC 03 he had no

TD's and about 800 yds rushing..So I understand the

1000+ was at stake but what is that but a silly stat

compared to a players long Term Health..Was that too

Logical for you snookums??

[Scott Dierking]

Real simple Sav:

Curtis Martin: 3D, 6+ yds, 6 rush , 58 yards, 9.7 avg, 2td

Lamont Jordan 3D, 6+ yds, 7 rush , 35 yards, 5.0 avg, 0td

Stats taken from Yahoo sports, 1994 situational stats.

Your point again?

[Savage69]

Real simple Sav:

Curtis Martin: 3D, 6+ yds, 6 rush , 58 yards, 9.7 avg, 2td

Lamont Jordan 3D, 6+ yds, 7 rush , 35 yards, 5.0 avg, 0td

Stats taken from Yahoo sports, 1994 situational stats.

Your point again?

My point is the same as it always has been! Martin

got alot of yardage on Draw plays on any down!

I wasn't talking about 3rd downs..You threw that

to protect your Boy Cumar!

[Savage69]

Real simple Sav:

Curtis Martin: 3D, 6+ yds, 6 rush , 58 yards, 9.7 avg, 2td

Lamont Jordan 3D, 6+ yds, 7 rush , 35 yards, 5.0 avg, 0td

Stats taken from Yahoo sports, 1994 situational stats.

Your point again?

Hold on here..That 6+ figure..That means Martin

could have had 3rd and 20's where Jordan only had

3rd and 6-7-8 or 9 yds so of course Martins yardage

would be higher! The Sad thing is your trying to

justify stats for the Starter against the backup

that had 278 less carries!! And why not post the

link to your info Rather then just typing it??

[Scott Dierking]

My point is the same as it always has been! Martin

got alot of yardage on Draw plays on any down!

I wasn't talking about 3rd downs..You threw that

to protect your Boy Cumar!

What is wrong with a play, IF IT GAINS YARDS, and does not sacrifice the drive. I only worry about throw away plays, and by the stat I showed here, I can't see where they sacrificed drives on 3rd and longs. Other play calling (short of teh sticks throws) be damned

Sav-I have asked several direct questions that you have accused me of. Do you care to answer them:

Where have I been wrong FACTUALLY?

and

What issue have I danced around?

[Scott Dierking]

Hold on here..That 6+ figure..That means Martin

could have had 3rd and 20's where Jordan only had

3rd and 6-7-8 or 9 yds so of course Martins yardage

would be higher! The Sad thing is your trying to

justify stats for the Starter against the backup

that had 278 less carries!! And why not post the

link to your info Rather then just typing it??

Since you asked

On Martin:

3rd and 8-10, 3 carries, 37 yards

3rd 11+, 0 carries

[Savage69]

What is wrong with a play, IF IT GAINS YARDS, and does not sacrifice the drive. I only worry about throw away plays, and by the stat I showed here, I can't see where they sacrificed drives on 3rd and longs. Other play calling (short of teh sticks throws) be damned

Sav-I have asked several direct questions that you have accused me of. Do you care to answer them:

Where have I been wrong FACTUALLY?

and

What issue have I danced around?

Again please post the Link! I never said you

were wrong on the 3rd and 6+! I said Martin

gets alot of yd's with Draw plays and you agreed!

Granted I'm not a big Draw play Fan even if Jim

Brown was running them! Nor was I a big Fan of

Hackett's play calling! I still fail to see what

you want to argue about..Unless it was to put Jordan

down by saying Martin does better on draw plays then

he does?? Again I would agree because God knows

Martin has had enough of them to get them down Pat!

[Scott Dierking]

I can't believe an old fart like you hasn't seen one of these before

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3164/situational

Have away at it my friend. I am sure much like Helen was the face that launched a thousand ships, this info to you will be the facts that launch a thousand threads.

Only, next time you accuse me of dancing or being wrong, back it up with some facts or substance. Your avoidance was funny

[Savage69]

I can't believe an old fart like you hasn't seen one of these before

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3164/situational

Have away at it my friend. I am sure much like Helen was the face that launched a thousand ships, this info to you will be the facts that launch a thousand threads.

Only, next time you accuse me of dancing or being wrong, back it up with some facts or substance. Your avoidance was funny

Scottie you are a sick Puppy!! You start to argue

over nothing! You agreed with my fact! Martin got

more Draw plays period! Going by your fractured

reasoning Jordan is a Far superior back then Cumar

based on his 5 yd rushing avg! You comparing 2 backs

based on 6 or 7 carries on 3rd and 6+?? So then you

would agree Jordan has a much better TD to carry

ratio?? Why do I bother with Kids??

[Maxman]

Why do I bother with Kids??

You never did bother with your kids. Until DNA testing became readily available.

[Savage69]

You never did bother with your kids. Until DNA testing became readily available.

I never had Kids Maxie..Never wanted them either!

Hmmm I did marry one though!! Here's a hint

for you though! Give up the Anal sex or you won't

have any kids either! Just because you think TS is

a A-Hole doesn't mean you can have a son like him

by Rump riding!! :wink:

[Scott Dierking]

Scottie you are a sick Puppy!! You start to argue

over nothing! You agreed with my fact! Martin got

more Draw plays period! Going by your fractured

reasoning Jordan is a Far superior back then Cumar

based on his 5 yd rushing avg! You comparing 2 backs

based on 6 or 7 carries on 3rd and 6+?? So then you

would agree Jordan has a much better TD to carry

ratio?? Why do I bother with Kids??

OLd man, you are going SENILE.

The ONLY reason I brought up 3rd and 6+ stats was your "compiling yards" on "throw away downs" comment a while back.

I disproved, rather convincingly that Martin was the recipient of generous 3rd down carries in "hopeless" situations.

Never have I commented that stat alone makes Martin better than Jordan or anyone else. YOU are the one that inferred that.

Just toppling your agenda one incorrect premis at a time :wink:

[Savage69]

OLd man, you are going SENILE.

The ONLY reason I brought up 3rd and 6+ stats was your "compiling yards" on "throw away downs" comment a while back.

I disproved, rather convincingly that Martin was the recipient of generous 3rd down carries in "hopeless" situations.

Never have I commented that stat alone makes Martin better than Jordan or anyone else. YOU are the one that inferred that.

Just toppling your agenda one incorrect premis at a

Then answer this Scottie??

If Martin was still Hurting from 2002 during the

03 Season and the Jets were out of the Playoffs

wouldn't that have been a good time to rest those

sore ankles?? Granted going into DEC 03 he had no

TD's and about 800 yds rushing..So I understand the

1000+ was at stake but what is that but a silly stat

compared to a players long Term Health..

Yet in Dec 125 carries for Martin 1 for Jordan..

Pad those stats baby! And BTW you must have a

reading problem?? When did I say Hopeless

situations?? You make it up as you go along??

Hell you don't need me just look in a Mirror

and argue with yourself!!

[Scott Dierking]

Then answer this Scottie??

If Martin was still Hurting from 2002 during the

03 Season and the Jets were out of the Playoffs

wouldn't that have been a good time to rest those

sore ankles?? Granted going into DEC 03 he had no

TD's and about 800 yds rushing..So I understand the

1000+ was at stake but what is that but a silly stat

compared to a players long Term Health..

Yet in Dec 125 carries for Martin 1 for Jordan..

Pad those stats baby! And BTW you must have a

reading problem?? When did I say Hopeless

situations?? You make it up as you go along??

Hell you don't need me just look in a Mirror

and argue with yourself!!

So Sav, are you now denying that you have inferred that Martin has "padded stats" at the expense of the offense?

If you agree to that premise, please show me specific situations where that occurred. Where was stat compiling done, in spite of sustaining a drive. And how many times did it occur.

Please bring some substance, as I have provided stats on a situation, and given you the ammunition to do the same.

[Savage69]

So Sav, are you now denying that you have inferred that Martin has "padded stats" at the expense of the offense?

If you agree to that premise, please show me specific situations where that occurred. Where was stat compiling done, in spite of sustaining a drive. And how many times did it occur.

Please bring some substance, as I have provided stats on a situation, and given you the ammunition to do the same.

Answer the above question Scottie! And why would

he not come out with 2 high ankle sprains?? For

the good of the Team?? I think not! If he was playing

well with those sprains thats 1 thing..He wasn't!

You know the real problem I have with you apologists

for Hermie or Martin! You never think Team..You spin

like Dem operatives! We never had a argument,my post

was Hackett called alot of Draws and Martin got the

stats from said Draws even if it did the Team no

good! That's a fact Jack! And answer the question!

Attention Posters..Watch The Dance Master ignore

the question and bring up something else Stupid!

[Scott Dierking]

Sav-I have no idea what trasnpired at the end of 2003.

Wasn't Martin's ankle sprains at the beginning of 2003? I don't recall, but that is when I recall those problems. I know they curtailed his carries early that season.

Also, didn't Jordan have a finger/hand problem at the end of teh year that was bothring him and affedcting his ability to hold onto teh ball.

I kinda remember something like that.

If your point is that they could have used Lamont more (if healthy) in a stretch run that did not mean a lot to the team-That is a fair point and I can not argue otherwise.

Whether that woudl have enhnced Lamont's value and precipitated a trade or teh Jets getting something in value, I feel is a bit of a reach. Again, who knows.

Again, Sav, point out where I have been incorrect. You have totally ignored to substantiate that insinuation you made.

[Savage69]

Sav-I have no idea what trasnpired at the end of 2003.

Wasn't Martin's ankle sprains at the beginning of 2003? I don't recall, but that is when I recall those problems. I know they curtailed his carries early that season.

Also, didn't Jordan have a finger/hand problem at the end of teh year that was bothring him and affedcting his ability to hold onto teh ball.

I kinda remember something like that.

If your point is that they could have used Lamont more (if healthy) in a stretch run that did not mean a lot to the team-That is a fair point and I can not argue otherwise.

Whether that woudl have enhnced Lamont's value and precipitated a trade or teh Jets getting something in value, I feel is a bit of a reach. Again, who knows.

Again, Sav, point out where I have been incorrect. You have totally ignored to substantiate that insinuation you made.

Your making no sense Scottie?? Ok on the Draw plays

Martin never got credit for any yardage? Is that

what your saying?? I explained it 4 different times!

There was no arguement, Martin has more draw plays

then Jordan and last year Martin did better on 3rd

and 6+ Draw plays then Jordan!I'm having fun at JI

with some Martinette's, but some are starting to

question why does Martin get all the carries!!

[Scott Dierking]

Sav-I give up.

You are like the the old granddad that thinks he hears something totally different than what was stated.

Poster: Martin has been a very good back for the Jets

What Sav reads: Please lump me into a category that I can incessantly deride based upon no other fact than my little agenda

[Savage69]

Sav-I give up.

You are like the the old granddad that thinks he hears something totally different than what was stated.

Poster: Martin has been a very good back for the Jets

What Sav reads: Please lump me into a category that I can incessantly deride based upon no other fact than my little agenda

And I never said Martin wasn't a Good back..Oops

lets use Scottie's words here..A very good Back!

But you should let go of the Jordan Jealously/Hate

thing! He's gone!! Go Blaylock and Houston!!

[Cant Hackett]

Jordan will out gain Martin this year