Exclusive Interview: Demario Davis, LB NYJ

[SenorGato]

It is if you're planning on attracting similar players or seeing if you want to resign them.

I know I'm stupid and gay

You don't get winning, brah. You flip the switch after years of preparation through losing to do it.

[HessStation]

Which players were miffed? This is a serious question. Not sarcastic.  I remember there being some mild "you'll have to ask them" quote, but I can't remember who it was from.  Was there some great upswell that I missed?  

 

 

The price of being a leader.

 

We don't know. But questioning the validity of Tony's quote is a whole other argument. He's about as legit of a source as I've ever found on the internet though. 

[SenorGato]

What if the GM sucks and gets fired? And the Coach goes 6-10. When am I allowed to questioning things? Maybe when the players start to? Oh sh*t wait....

If the GM sucks and gets fired then why lose sleep over his 5-7 round picks not seeing huge amounts of time on the field? Seriously, how vital are Jordan White, Josh Bush, and Antonio Allen to the war effort? Does playing them more speed up the super mega ultra rebuild?

Why can't the logic you're using be questioned? Because 6-10? How long does 2012's record, minus all context of course, get held over everyone's head?

[SenorGato]

We don't know. But questioning the validity of Tony's quote is a whole other argument. He's about as legit of a source as I've ever found on the internet though.

Pauline is a great source of information. My go to guy for football. I found that quote dumb the first time I read it.

[JiFtheOracle]

You don't get winning, brah. You flip the switch after years of preparation through losing to do it.

My bad. Good point. Should have found out what Jordan White had with Greg McElroy throwing to him. Then, you'd know what you have in not just 1 young player but 2!

[HessStation]

Totally should have given up. Because THAT'S what great HC's do.

 

LOL that we're now equating giving younger players a shot to play more vs. your sh*tty vets on the last year of contracts during a 3-6 season means, "giving up."

[dbatesman]

Complete unknowns to you, probably missed because you were too busy fear mongering to see them playing. Davis and McIntyre were fairly common sights as the season went on while Bush/Sapp made it to the field in the second half as well.

 

 

Jordan White didn't play almost at all, no. Davis, Sapp, McIntyre, and Bush all saw the field and two of then got multiple starts.

 

 

Argument #1: "Those guys saw plenty of PT. You were just too dumb to notice."

 

 

They all played its just that Rex didn't hand them a starting job because 6-10.

 

Argument #2: "Yeah, so maybe those guys didn't see a lot of PT. So what?? Is Rex just supposed to just hand them a starting job?"

 

So a bunch of people completely and totally irrelevant in the player evaluation discussion (fans and other players) feel they don't know enough to evaluate the players? Why does this matter? They all saw the field, they all practiced, they all interacted with coaches and other players. I have zero reason to feel I should be privy to whatever we're supposed to be mad about here.

 

Argument #3a: "Fans are idiots. We should trust the coaches' player evaluations, because they see these guys in practice every day."

 

The OL coach who lasted a year here and only had great things to say about Wayne Hunter?

 

In a stunning, stunning development...playing Ducasse does not count as playing young players. Magua doesn't count...Lankster doesn't count...Davis playing in over a 25% of the snaps as a rookie in Bart Scott's role doesn't count...It's incredibly easy to take anything from the Shane POV...it's all or nothing...black or white...either/or....0 shades of gray...etc.

 

Argument #3b: "Except sometimes you can't trust coaches at all. By the way, you guys need to quit moving the goalposts."

 

No, I'm not. I think you keep forgetting that it's not a player's job to be miffed about playing time for rookies unless that player happens to be an affected rookie. You keep forgetting that despite being 3-6 in week 10 they were not eliminated from the playoffs, officially not by the arbitrary scale of fans who need a prettier paper season, and they were in fact FIVE weeks away from it. We're in a generation of NFL where an 8-8 team was in the Super Bowl within the past 5 years - it is not over when your hindsight tells me it is after the fact.

 

Once again a quick reminder for the board:

 

GMs general manage

Coaches coach

Players play

 

Not:

 

GMs break draft ties based on coach opinions

Coaches execute the plays

Players scout

 

Argument #4: "Seriously, though, we should trust the coaches. Also, anyone who was mad when we were 3-6 was just a sheep succumbing to the NFL's media-created narrative."

[HessStation]

Pauline is a great source of information. My go to guy for football. I found that quote dumb the first time I read it.

 

How is a quote, dumb? An opinion can be dumb? It was a piece of information. A source. So what you're essentially saying is you know more than the players in the locker room, yet somehow TOm and I are playing the "fan scouts" who seem to think we know more. Yeah, ok. 

[JiFtheOracle]

LOL that we're now equating giving younger players a shot to play more vs. your sh*tty vets on the last year of contracts during a 3-6 season means, "giving up."

You said it, not me

[SenorGato]

LOL that we're now equating giving younger players a shot to play more vs. your sh*tty vets on the last year of contracts during a 3-6 season means, "giving up."

All younger players are not the same. If Josh Bush could beat out Bell then he would have beaten out Bell. If 3-6 meant they there was zero shot at the playoffs then maybe you finish the tank job (which no coach worth anything will ever volunteerily do). 7 competion free starts to 6th and 7th rounders does not exist and will never exist.

[HessStation]

If the GM sucks and gets fired then why lose sleep over his 5-7 round picks not seeing huge amounts of time on the field? Seriously, how vital are Jordan White, Josh Bush, and Antonio Allen to the war effort? Does playing them more speed up the super mega ultra rebuild?

Why can't the logic you're using be questioned? Because 6-10? How long does 2012's record, minus all context of course, get held over everyone's head?

 

I think they would mean a whole hell of a lot when you know you're probably losing about 12-13 starters the following year and you're 3-6...then 4-7 and the team is going absolutely NOWHERE.  

[Pac]

I'm not sure what this is all about but I want to be on the opposite side of whatever Hess' position is.

 

and I'm mad.

[HessStation]

You said it, not me

 

Are you referring to the season or the organization? You're paraphrasing. 

[HessStation]

I'm not sure what this is all about but I want to be on the opposite side of whatever Hess' position is.

 

and I'm mad.

It's only 5 pages Chester. You can do it.

[SenorGato]

Argument #1: "Those guys saw plenty of PT. You were just too dumb to notice."

 

A true statement.

 

 

Argument #2: "Yeah, so maybe those guys didn't see a lot of PT. So

what?? Is Rex just supposed to just hand them a starting job?"

 

Once you note that this is taken from:

 

They all played its just that Rex didn't hand them a starting job because 6-10.

 

Then you realize that it's a true statement.

 

 

Argument #3a: "Fans are idiots. We should trust the coaches' player

evaluations, because they see these guys in practice every day."

 

The context eliminated:

 

- That coach was part of the organization for one year.

 

- Vlad played fine in his limited role.

 

- Fans are idiots.

 

- Coaches do see these guys way more than me. DeMario Davis is a concensus 2013 starter at LB because of his in game rookie performance?

 

Argument #4: "Seriously, though, we should trust the coaches. Also,

anyone who was mad when we were 3-6 was just a sheep succumbing to the

NFL's media-created narrative."

 

Rex Ryan not handing Josh Bush and Antonio Allen starting jobs is far more relevant to their evaluation than fans who feel life was not fair for these guys because 6-10. 

[SenorGato]

I think they would mean a whole hell of a lot when you know you're probably losing about 12-13 starters the following year and you're 3-6...then 4-7 and the team is going absolutely NOWHERE.  

 

In which case you would be wrong. If The Future relies on 6th and 7th rounders then there is not much of a future. Weird how DeMario Davis will be taking a starter's spot, just handed one as you wish, despite not being properly evaluated...Also funny how you keep bringing up their in-season records and TOTALLY without the power of hindsight can proclaim they went NOWHERE, but they were still on the fringe of still making the playoffs with two weeks to go....Somehow not starting these rookies is some kind of sign that absolutely NOWHERE will continue.

[HessStation]

A true statement.

 

 

Once you note that this is taken from:

 

 

Then you realize that it's a true statement.

 

 

The context eliminated:

 

- That coach was part of the organization for one year.

 

- Vlad played fine in his limited role.

 

- Fans are idiots.

 

- Coaches do see these guys way more than me. DeMario Davis is a concensus 2013 starter at LB because of his in game rookie performance?

 

 

Rex Ryan not handing Josh Bush and Antonio Allen starting jobs is far more relevant to their evaluation than fans who feel life was not fair for these guys because 6-10. 

 

I think most of the issue is, do any of these guys deserve the starting jobs this year?  The concern is, does the coaching staff know? They didn't get a lot of playing time last year even on 6-10 team going nowhere, due to Rex's loyalty starting the older vets, even when the season looked lost.  I wouldn't think so much of it except when I read that a lot of the players also mentioning it. After watching how Rex has handled the Sanchez situation and how loyal he's seemed to be towards certain vets, it draws a conclusion of concern.  

[SenorGato]

I think most of the issue is, do any of these guys deserve the starting

jobs this year?

 

 

Considering the raves Davis got from inside the organization by people who chose not to remain nameless, at least one of them does. Not surprisingly, he's the one who was said to have exciting upside as a starter going into the 2012 draft.

 

The concern is, does the coaching staff know?

 

Sure seems like they do.

 

The rest is the same spinning, hindsight based narrative carrying one side of the argument in the thread. They didn't get alot of playing time because 6-7th round picks often don't as rookies, the majority of the playing time they got anyway came late in the year, and "a lot" is very optimistic way for you to describe the # of players who take your POV.

 

Rex handled the Sanchez situation exactly how any coach would handle it. McElroy got in when the team was officially done because McElroy was not fixing the Sanchez situation.

[dbatesman]

A true statement.

 

 

Once you note that this is taken from:

 

 

Then you realize that it's a true statement.

 

 

The context eliminated:

 

- That coach was part of the organization for one year.

 

- Vlad played fine in his limited role.

 

- Fans are idiots.

 

- Coaches do see these guys way more than me. DeMario Davis is a concensus 2013 starter at LB because of his in game rookie performance?

 

 

Rex Ryan not handing Josh Bush and Antonio Allen starting jobs is far more relevant to their evaluation than fans who feel life was not fair for these guys because 6-10. 

 

You need to take the multi-quoting tutorial.

[HessStation]

In which case you would be wrong. If The Future relies on 6th and 7th rounders then there is not much of a future. Weird how DeMario Davis will be taking a starter's spot, just handed one as you wish, despite not being properly evaluated...Also funny how you keep bringing up their in-season records and TOTALLY without the power of hindsight can proclaim they went NOWHERE, but they were still on the fringe of still making the playoffs with two weeks to go....Somehow not starting these rookies is some kind of sign that absolutely NOWHERE will continue.

What the hell, does without the power of hindsight, mean? Fwiw, I thought the season was over by week 4. I think Rex did a poor job mixing in youth and depth at the end of the year. It appears a large contingent of players agreed with me and disagree with you and JiF.

The argument of where that mendoza line of infusing youth should have started is a secondary argument. at 3-6 was the season over, should they have "given up"? No but maybe start then. No? Ok, how about at 4-7? No? ok well def at 6-8. Still, really didn't see it.

Was it important? They have to fill about 12-13 starting spots and are salary cap strapped. Would have been nice to see more of what they have.

[SenorGato]

Fwiw, I thought the season was over by week 4.

 

Unfortunately, it is not worth all that much relative to the league standings. Nobody was tanking a season until the playoffs were completely out of the picture.

 

 

The argument of where that mendoza line of infusing youth should have

started is a secondary argument. at 3-6 was the season over, should

they have "given up"? No but maybe start then. No? Ok, how about at 4-7?

No? ok well def at 6-8. Still, really didn't see it. 

That's when they found out about the future with McElroy at QB. At 3-3 Bush registed 3 tackles against the Pats and Davis started.

 

Was it important? They have to fill about 12-13 starting spots and

are salary cap strapped. Would have been nice to see more of what they

have.

 

Davis is taking one of those starting spots despite the lack of evaluation time. 

 

[HessStation]

Considering the raves Davis got from inside the organization by people who chose not to remain nameless, at least one of them does. Not surprisingly, he's the one who was said to have exciting upside as a starter going into the 2012 draft.

 

 

Sure seems like they do.

 

The rest is the same spinning, hindsight based narrative carrying one side of the argument in the thread. They didn't get alot of playing time because 6-7th round picks often don't as rookies, the majority of the playing time they got anyway came late in the year, and "a lot" is very optimistic way for you to describe the # of players who take your POV.

 

Rex handled the Sanchez situation exactly how any coach would handle it. McElroy got in when the team was officially done because McElroy was not fixing the Sanchez situation.

You keep disregarding late round picks meanwhile every team has and needs them with a salary cap

 

Corey Graham- 5th round pick

Carey Williams- 7th round pick

Dannel Ellerbe- undrafted

Tarell Brown-5th round pick 

Dashon Goldson- 4th round pick

[JiFtheOracle]

What the hell, does without the power of hindsight, mean? Fwiw, I thought the season was over by week 4. I think Rex did a poor job mixing in youth and depth at the end of the year. It appears a large contingent of players agreed with me and disagree with you and JiF.

The argument of where that mendoza line of infusing youth should have started is a secondary argument. at 3-6 was the season over, should they have "given up"? No but maybe start then. No? Ok, how about at 4-7? No? ok well def at 6-8. Still, really didn't see it.

Was it important? They have to fill about 12-13 starting spots and are salary cap strapped. Would have been nice to see more of what they have.

 

Honest question; how much better off are the Jets today than they were last season by giving the likes of Bush, Allen and White "more snaps". 

 

I'm going to venture and say not much and they'd probably come to the conclusion that those players arent very good.  But I'm dumb and gay, so take it for fwiw.

[HessStation]

Honest question; how much better off are the Jets today than they were last season by giving the likes of Bush, Allen and White "more snaps".

I'm going to venture and say not much and they'd probably come to the conclusion that those players arent very good. But I'm dumb and gay, so take it for fwiw.

Every team needs their fair share of late round picks/UDFAs to have an impact on the roster. I'm not trying to hold any major significant weight to this other than it's more cause for concern. I would consider it is another bullet against Rex as to whether or not he's managing the team and roster correctly with a long term, sustainable, successful plan in place. It is a concern when, after a 6-10 season, you hear reports that even veterans on the team were wondering why the younger, less experienced players weren't playing more towards the end of the season.

Especially when you know you only have about 6-8 starters returning, your cap strapped and you only have 7 picks.

[JiFtheOracle]

Every team needs their fair share of late round picks/UDFAs to have an impact on the roster. I'm not trying to hold any major significant weight to this other than it's more cause for concern. I would consider it is another bullet against Rex as to whether or not he's managing the team and roster correctly with a long term, sustainable, successful plan in place. It is a concern when, after a 6-10 season, you hear reports that even veterans on the team were wondering why the younger, less experienced players weren't playing more towards the end of the season.

Especially when you know you only have about 6-8 starters returning, your cap strapped and you only have 7 picks.

 

I dont disagree with any of this....but you didnt answer the question.  

 

What are you really going to learn about those guys in 2 meaningless games for both teams?

[HessStation]

I dont disagree with any of this....but you didnt answer the question.  

 

What are you really going to learn about those guys in 2 meaningless games for both teams?

 

More than you know now. 

[#27TheDominator]

I will be more concerned if Coples and Davis and Ellis turn out to be sh*tty players.  I understand the concern, but bringing guys along slowly is not a problem.  Especially when they have solid guys ahead of them and the fact that ALL these guys saw more reps at the end of the year  (except for Davis' brief stint starting when Scott got hurt) sort of tells you that they were doing what you guys wanted.  You complaint is a matter of degree. I would like to know about this grumbling.  I didn't even know the quotes were from Tony Pauline, I thought Hess meant Sparano at first.  Who was complaining and where did the quotes come from?  Coples?  

[SenorGato]

You keep disregarding late round picks meanwhile every team has and needs them with a salary cap

 

Corey Graham- 5th round pick

Carey Williams- 7th round pick

Dannel Ellerbe- undrafted

Tarell Brown-5th round pick 

Dashon Goldson- 4th round pick

 

Who is disregarding them? I'm saying they probably weren't good enough to start and that they did all see the fied.

 

How many of those guys were rookie or even second year studs? Goldson as a 4th rounder is too high, but he played in less games than Bush without any starts as a rookie. This is a terrible horse to be on.

[SenorGato]

Who was complaining and where did the quotes come from?  Coples?

 

 "-Speaking of the Jets, I’ve been told by several sources that a

number of veteran players were miffed by the fact many of the teams

rookies were not seeing more playing time towards the end of the 2012

season.  One player they point to was seventh round pick Jordan White,

whom they said was ready to see extensive action, especially considering

the teams woes at the receiver position, yet barely saw the field."

Tony Pauline news and notes from the combine

[HessStation]

Who is disregarding them? I'm saying they probably weren't good enough to start and that they did all see the fied.

How many of those guys were rookie or even second year studs? Goldson as a 4th rounder is too high, but he played in less games than Bush without any starts as a rookie. This is a terrible horse to be on.

Bwhahahahahaha. You're literally talking out of both sides of your ass. Late round picks mean nothing... then they do...but not as rookies. You condescend with half your argument calling me or anyone agreeing with me, a "fan scout", then pre-determine that our rookies suck, because you can tell after watching them play 2% of the snaps and, of course, where they were drafted. Ok, you win, good job. lol.

[SenorGato]

Late round picks mean nothing

 

Odd way of interpreting what I say about late round picks.

 

6th and 7th round picks are ridiculous long shots. A 7th round pick is basically a throwaway pick in the first place. A sixth's well above average outcome is someone like Matt Slauson, who only appeared in 3 games as a rookie. Bush is a guy who had a knack for getting INTs in college and can play a little slot corner. He didn't beat 25 YO Lankster for the slot and the D played well enough to squeeze out 6 games without Revis or a top 35 QB with Lankster there.

 

I'm not calling you a fan scout. I'm saying that a DVR'd Sunday game is your only film of these rookies AND you have the agenda of wanting to tank the season halfway through. The Jets had no reason to do that - they were in the playoff hunt up until the last two weeks. They immediately switched the QB to the late round solid college QB and lost the last two games (in clear tanking style btw - no 2007 Chiefs win here).

 

Fact is that the young guys who mattered - Davis, Coples, and Ellis - saw major playing time at their positions and showed some talent doing it. Hill had his moments both really good and horrible, mostly horrible with injuries. I like that they did not make him play hurt like maybe a veteran FA to be would.