Stephen Hill Not Frustrated

[joewilly12]

That's Tannenbaum for you. Passes over KNOWN quality for unknown quantity (Hill) because his freakin ego told him he was smarter than everyone else (yeah, right). Jeffery would be making a name for himself in NY right now, but would not have a Brandon Marshall to draw double teams here, so he might look a LOT like Hill.

Spilled milk. Time to move on and improve.

[HessStation]

An extremely high character kid. His speed/size ratio should always keep him on an NFL roster.

[flgreen]

Hill has the most targets on team.  Geno looks to him.  Unfortunately for the Jets and Hill, Geno is a rookie who doesnt see the field very well yet. Hill has been open, plenty.  A couple that would be game changing plays (see Steelers game, man coverage).  

 

The play I'm referring to last week was a soft zone, he got a free release and was in the middle of the endzone all alone in like 1 sec flat.  I could have thrown it behind the back and it would have been a TD.

 

Hill is is slow developing and his production isnt living up to his selection but the QB shares plenty of blame.  

 

Agree with JiF here.  I have that NFL replay that shows the Coaches view.  Hill has been open a lot, and Smith has the arm to get him the ball.   As JiF pointed out Smith is a rookie, and for one reason or another not seeing the field as much as a vet would.  Some QB's get over that, and some don't.

[Matt39]

Agree with JiF here. I have that NFL replay that shows the Coaches view. Hill has been open a lot, and Smith has the arm to get him the ball. As JiF pointed out Smith is a rookie, and for one reason or another not seeing the field as much as a vet would. Some QB's get over that, and some don't.

Receivers often stop getting targeted when QB's dont trust theyll come back on the footballl. Hill has struggled with this.

[flgreen]

Receivers often stop getting targeted when QB's dont trust theyll come back on the footballl. Hill has struggled with this.

 

Not trying to say that Hill is where he should be.  I thought when the Jets took him in the 2nd, like Smith, he had good value, and a lot of short comings.   Think Hill's route running has improved some over last year, but I am still disappointed with his over all development, and what he's contributed so far this year.

 

You may be right that Smith may have lost some confidence in him over issues like coming back for the ball, and the back shoulder throw.   if they get on the same page with those things, could be a very good upfield tandem  

[JiFtheOracle]

Agree with JiF here.  I have that NFL replay that shows the Coaches view.  Hill has been open a lot, and Smith has the arm to get him the ball.   As JiF pointed out Smith is a rookie, and for one reason or another not seeing the field as much as a vet would.  Some QB's get over that, and some don't.

 

And I'm not even trying to make the case that the Jets made the right pick with Hill or am I trying to say he's a good player or ever will be...but if we're going to be fair and knock him for his production, he's been open plenty...plenty.  If his QB didnt "trust" him as so many are saying, then he wouldnt be leading the team in targets.  He's playing in a miserable offense, with a very inconsistent rookie QB, with absolutely zero threat to take any attention away from him and he's still very raw.  

 

People keep comparing him to Jeffrey, which will always happen because of where they were selected but the difference in systems/team really makes it unfair.  He's got BMarsh on one side, so he's constantly getting 1 on 1, and he's got someone who can get him the ball throwing to him, on a team who's thrown it about 100 more times than the Jets.

 

I just dont think its fair to be writing the kid off already.  He's 22 years old and came into the league as a project and his growth has been stunted by having a terrible Qb, playing on a terrible offense. 

[Villain The Foe]

And I'm not even trying to make the case that the Jets made the right pick with Hill or am I trying to say he's a good player or ever will be...but if we're going to be fair and knock him for his production, he's been open plenty...plenty.  If his QB didnt "trust" him as so many are saying, then he wouldnt be leading the team in targets.  He's playing in a miserable offense, with a very inconsistent rookie QB, with absolutely zero threat to take any attention away from him and he's still very raw.  

 

People keep comparing him to Jeffrey, which will always happen because of where they were selected but the difference in systems/team really makes it unfair.  He's got BMarsh on one side, so he's constantly getting 1 on 1, and he's got someone who can get him the ball throwing to him, on a team who's thrown it about 100 more times than the Jets.

 

I just dont think its fair to be writing the kid off already.  He's 22 years old and came into the league as a project and his growth has been stunted by having a terrible Qb, playing on a terrible offense. 

 

Sorry but yes....I gotta do this! lol. 

 

Alshon Jeffery in his last 6 games have put up 627 receiving yards and 3 TD's on 34 catches along with 64 rushing yards. Thats 691 total yards in just 6 games. We keep comparing Hill to Jeffery because he was drafted ahead of him when he simply shouldnt have. Many people who defend Hill tend to talk about Jeffery having Marshall opposite him and cutler throwing to him. I've been the biggest proponent of Jeffery and I can emphatically say "no", that is not why Jeffery is better than Hill. 

We are Jet fans and we all know that Hill doesnt have reliable hands, he doesnt run solid routes and only seems to be a streak threat. Outside of a 9 route Hill has difficulty getting separation. 

 

Jeffery is not as fast, but he gets separation, he runs solid routes, HE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD (Hills greatest asset), has very good hands and simply produces. 

 

Hill's stats for the entire season: 

 

340 yards on 23 attempts and 1TD. Zero rushing yards.

 

Jeffery has four 100yd receiving outings in his last 6 games and is averging over 100yds per game in his last 6 games. Better yet, Jeffery has 1 less TD (3) than Hill has his entire career (4). Jeffery has 10 less catches in his last 6 games (34) than Hill has his entire career (44). Jeffery has 64 rushing hards these last 6 games to ZERO for Hills entire career. Jeffery has four 100yd receiving games in his last 6 games, Hill has 1 in his career. And this last one is very telling....Jeffery has more yards in his last 6 games (627) than Hill has in his entire career (592). 

 

So you may not be trying to make a case, but I am. 

 

 

Hill Sucks right now. Yes, he has potential, but having potential means nothing until you exercise it. Dude is looking real "bustly" right now. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Sorry but yes....I gotta do this! lol.

Alshon Jeffery in his last 6 games have put up 627 receiving yards and 3 TD's on 34 catches along with 64 rushing yards. Thats 691 total yards in just 6 games. We keep comparing Hill to Jeffery because he was drafted ahead of him when he simply shouldnt have. Many people who defend Hill tend to talk about Jeffery having Marshall opposite him and cutler throwing to him. I've been the biggest proponent of Jeffery and I can emphatically say "no", that is not why Jeffery is better than Hill.

We are Jet fans and we all know that Hill doesnt have reliable hands, he doesnt run solid routes and only seems to be a streak threat. Outside of a 9 route Hill has difficulty getting separation.

Jeffery is not as fast, but he gets separation, he runs solid routes, HE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD (Hills greatest asset), has very good hands and simply produces.

Hill's stats for the entire season:

340 yards on 23 attempts and 1TD. Zero rushing yards.

Jeffery has four 100yd receiving outings in his last 6 games and is averging over 100yds per game in his last 6 games. Better yet, Jeffery has 1 less TD (3) than Hill has his entire career (4). Jeffery has 10 less catches in his last 6 games (34) than Hill has his entire career (44). Jeffery has 64 rushing hards these last 6 games to ZERO for Hills entire career. Jeffery has four 100yd receiving games in his last 6 games, Hill has 1 in his career. And this last one is very telling....Jeffery has more yards in his last 6 games (627) than Hill has in his entire career (592).

So you may not be trying to make a case, but I am.

Hill Sucks right now. Yes, he has potential, but having potential means nothing until you exercise it. Dude is looking real "bustly" right now.

Jeffrey is the better player right now, no doubt. But I'd be shocked if he had any where near that production on the Jets. Me thinks it would be very similar to Hill's.

[Matt39]

Jeffrey is the better player right now, no doubt. But I'd be shocked if he had any where near that production on the Jets. Me thinks it would be very similar to Hill's.

 

Jeffrey would be this teams #1

[Villain The Foe]

Jeffrey is the better player right now, no doubt. But I'd be shocked if he had any where near that production on the Jets. Me thinks it would be very similar to Hill's.

 

 

Maybe Jeffery is just "good". Maybe he does everything better than Hill in regards to the WR skill set, outside of pure speed which is more of a natural ability than a skill. Maybe its more than just Jeffery playing with Marshall because their numbers are pretty similar (outside of TD's), with Jeffery averaging 3yds per catch more than marshall. 

 

Maybe Jeffery would have been our #1 WR instead of Kerley when Santonio got hurt. Hill certainly couldnt step up to the plate. Plain and simple....the Stephen Hill sympathizers are reaching. 

[Villain The Foe]

Jeffrey would be this teams #1

THIS. We thought the very same thing. You posted this as I was typing the very same thing! 

[JiFtheOracle]

Jeffrey would be this teams #1

And?

[#27TheDominator]

Sorry but yes....I gotta do this! lol. 

 

Alshon Jeffery in his last 6 games have put up 627 receiving yards and 3 TD's on 34 catches along with 64 rushing yards. Thats 691 total yards in just 6 games. We keep comparing Hill to Jeffery because he was drafted ahead of him when he simply shouldnt have. Many people who defend Hill tend to talk about Jeffery having Marshall opposite him and cutler throwing to him. I've been the biggest proponent of Jeffery and I can emphatically say "no", that is not why Jeffery is better than Hill. 

We are Jet fans and we all know that Hill doesnt have reliable hands, he doesnt run solid routes and only seems to be a streak threat. Outside of a 9 route Hill has difficulty getting separation. 

 

Jeffery is not as fast, but he gets separation, he runs solid routes, HE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD (Hills greatest asset), has very good hands and simply produces. 

 

Hill's stats for the entire season: 

 

340 yards on 23 attempts and 1TD. Zero rushing yards.

 

Jeffery has four 100yd receiving outings in his last 6 games and is averging over 100yds per game in his last 6 games. Better yet, Jeffery has 1 less TD (3) than Hill has his entire career (4). Jeffery has 10 less catches in his last 6 games (34) than Hill has his entire career (44). Jeffery has 64 rushing hards these last 6 games to ZERO for Hills entire career. Jeffery has four 100yd receiving games in his last 6 games, Hill has 1 in his career. And this last one is very telling....Jeffery has more yards in his last 6 games (627) than Hill has in his entire career (592). 

 

So you may not be trying to make a case, but I am. 

 

 

Hill Sucks right now. Yes, he has potential, but having potential means nothing until you exercise it. Dude is looking real "bustly" right now. 

 

 

Jeffrey would be this teams #1

 

 

None of this has anything to do with why Hill went ahead of Jeffery.  Jeffery went late because he was out of shape and gave teams the impression that he wasn't dedicated.  His 367 yards last year on a team with Cutler and Marshall attest to the fact that he wasn't any slam dunk. To his credit he has dedicated himself and is making the most of his opportunity, but there is no guarantee that would have happened here with Sparano and Sanchez. You guys can act like Hill was a workout warrior, but picking a fat guy that looked like he didn't give a sh*t about football is just as much like picking Gholston as picking a guy that ran well. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Maybe Jeffery is just "good". Maybe he does everything better than Hill in regards to the WR skill set, outside of pure speed which is more of a natural ability than a skill. Maybe its more than just Jeffery playing with Marshall because their numbers are pretty similar (outside of TD's), with Jeffery averaging 3yds per catch more than marshall.

Maybe Jeffery would have been our #1 WR instead of Kerley when Santonio got hurt. Hill certainly couldnt step up to the plate. Plain and simple....the Stephen Hill sympathizers are reaching.

Who's arguing different? Jefferey is better. Do I need to repeat that more?

All I'm saying is, I don't think he would be producing like he is on this offense and that comparing production, isn't exactly apples to apples.

You can call me an aplogist or sympathizer. But I don't thinks its crazy to think we haven't seen all he's got because I believe his development is curved due to his QB and offense.

[Villain The Foe]

None of this has anything to do with why Hill went ahead of Jeffery.  Jeffery went late because he was out of shape and gave teams the impression that he wasn't dedicated.  His 367 yards last year on a team with Cutler and Marshall attest to the fact that he wasn't any slam dunk. To his credit he has dedicated himself and is making the most of his opportunity, but there is no guarantee that would have happened here with Sparano and Sanchez. You guys can act like Hill was a workout warrior, but picking a fat guy that looked like he didn't give a sh*t about football is just as much like picking Gholston as picking a guy that ran well. 

It wasnt like Jeffery was drafted a few rounds behind Hill, it was a few spots behind hill. His 367 yards last year showed that he was a rookie, this is year two, and what is he showing? He's putting up similar numbers to his #1 Wide receiving counterpart who's been in the league for 8 years and has lit it up for 2 prior teams. 

 

To his credit.....no guarantee??? Look, all these hypotheticals are exactly that. The point here is that he's a better WR than Hill and he's showing it, its no longer "hypothetical" like when I was pissed when the Jets passed on him. This my friend is plain-as-day reality. 

[Matt39]

And?

Just saying. He'd be a big part of this passing game. A big reason this passing game has struggled is because of Hill being terrible.

[Villain The Foe]

Who's arguing different? Jefferey is better. Do I need to repeat that more?

All I'm saying is, I don't think he would be producing like he is on this offense and that comparing production, isn't exactly apples to apples.

You can call me an aplogist or sympathizer. But I don't thinks its crazy to think we haven't seen all he's got because I believe his development is curved due to his QB and offense.

No, you dont have to repeat it again. This last quoted post of yours has made it clear. My problem however wasnt that, it was the thought of "Jeffery possibly putting up similar numbers". I highly doubt that given that Hill is playing like a total bust. I doubt that Jeffery would be playing like a total bust given that he IS a better receiver. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Just saying. He'd be a big part of this passing game. A big reason this passing game has struggled is because of Hill being terrible.

 

Maybe...but I truly dont see any WR putting those type's of #'s on this offense.  Could be wrong...maybe Jeffrey would, but I think he'd be seeing a very different look from the defense if he was the sole guy here...if he could still produce or not is the real question.

 

No, you dont have to repeat it again. This last quoted post of yours has made it clear. My problem however wasnt that, it was the thought of "Jeffery possibly putting up similar numbers". I highly doubt that given that Hill is playing like a total bust. I doubt that Jeffery would be playing like a total bust given that he IS a better receiver. 

 

Kerley IS a better WR than Hill...what do his numbers look like?  Like I said above, I just dont see WR's putting up big #'s in this offense.  Could be wrong, but thats my opinion.  We could speculate all day long.  

 

Bottom line is, you're right, at this point, the Jets looked to have made the wrong decision but I dont think its because of statistical measures which has seem to be crux of the argument.  

[Matt39]

None of this has anything to do with why Hill went ahead of Jeffery.  Jeffery went late because he was out of shape and gave teams the impression that he wasn't dedicated.  His 367 yards last year on a team with Cutler and Marshall attest to the fact that he wasn't any slam dunk. To his credit he has dedicated himself and is making the most of his opportunity, but there is no guarantee that would have happened here with Sparano and Sanchez. You guys can act like Hill was a workout warrior, but picking a fat guy that looked like he didn't give a sh*t about football is just as much like picking Gholston as picking a guy that ran well. 

 

I agree- but I'm not looking at this situation like we should have taken Jeffrey over Hill. I just never understood the Hill pick to begin with. Especially with a guy like Jeffrey still available...(assuming the wanted to go WR)

[#27TheDominator]

It wasnt like Jeffery was drafted a few rounds behind Hill, it was a few spots behind hill. His 367 yards last year showed that he was a rookie, this is year two, and what is he showing? He's putting up similar numbers to his #1 Wide receiving counterpart who's been in the league for 8 years and has lit it up for 2 prior teams. 

 

To his credit.....no guarantee??? Look, all these hypotheticals are exactly that. The point here is that he's a better WR than Hill and he's showing it, its no longer "hypothetical" like when I was pissed when the Jets passed on him. This my friend is plain-as-day reality. 

 

The guy didn't do much last year and now he is blowing up.  My hero.  Acting like he is a slam dunk now is like complaining about teams not taking Tom Brady.  The Jets may have been gunshy about taking a guy with a questionable work ethic. If you think his numbers were guaranteed when he was drafted I don't know what to tell you.  I can give you a pat on the back and say you were right for liking the guy, but comparing Hill to a guy that blew up is not very fair.  HIll is pretty much a monster compared to Brian Quick and AJ Jenkins and they were both selected ahead Jeffrey and HIll.  

 

I agree- but I'm not looking at this situation like we should have taken Jeffrey over Hill. I just never understood the Hill pick to begin with. Especially with a guy like Jeffrey still available...(assuming the wanted to go WR)

 

You agree, but you don't agree

[Matt39]

The guy didn't do much last year and now he is blowing up.  My hero.  Acting like he is a slam dunk now is like complaining about teams not taking Tom Brady.  The Jets may have been gunshy about taking a guy with a questionable work ethic. If you think his numbers were guaranteed when he was drafted I don't know what to tell you.  I can give you a pat on the back and say you were right for liking the guy, but comparing Hill to a guy that blew up is not very fair.  HIll is pretty much a monster compared to Brian Quick and AJ Jenkins and they were both selected ahead Jeffrey and HIll.  

 

 

You agree, but you don't agree

 

I'm saying Hill stinks and if we knew how to evaluate WR's(Tannenbaum) that pick was a no brainer if we're comparing the two. 

[Villain The Foe]

Maybe...but I truly dont see any WR putting those type's of #'s on this offense.  Could be wrong...maybe Jeffrey would, but I think he'd be seeing a very different look from the defense if he was the sole guy here...if he could still produce or not is the real question.

 

 

Kerley IS a better WR than Hill...what do his numbers look like?  Like I said above, I just dont see WR's putting up big #'s in this offense.  Could be wrong, but thats my opinion.  We could speculate all day long.  

 

Bottom line is, you're right, at this point, the Jets looked to have made the wrong decision but I dont think its because of statistical measures which has seem to be crux of the argument.  

And Jeffery IS better than Kerley, what does his numbers look like? I think you could be wrong. 

[bitonti]

Receivers often stop getting targeted when QB's dont trust theyll come back on the footballl. Hill has struggled with this.

yeah it's Geno with the trust problem

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

The guy didn't do much last year and now he is blowing up.  My hero.  Acting like he is a slam dunk now is like complaining about teams not taking Tom Brady.  The Jets may have been gunshy about taking a guy with a questionable work ethic. If you think his numbers were guaranteed when he was drafted I don't know what to tell you.  I can give you a pat on the back and say you were right for liking the guy, but comparing Hill to a guy that blew up is not very fair.  HIll is pretty much a monster compared to Brian Quick and AJ Jenkins and they were both selected ahead Jeffrey and HIll.  

 

 

You agree, but you don't agree

You can complain about your team not taking Tom Brady when you were saying since before that draft occurred that your team better take Brady when they get a chance. Thats  basically what I've been doing. You've been on the forumz long enough to know this is true. Stop pretending like I just jumped on the bandwagon. Everyone who's been around here knows that I've been high on Jeffery since before the draft. 

[#27TheDominator]

I'm saying Hill stinks and if we knew how to evaluate WR's(Tannenbaum) that pick was a no brainer if we're comparing the two. 

 

Oh.  I disagree.  I actually kind of like Hill.  He is a bit stiff, but I think he brings things to the table.  I think he will be tough to cover once/if we ever get somebody to demand some help across from him.  

 

 

You can complain about your team not taking Tom Brady when you were saying since before that draft occurred that your team better take Brady when they get a chance. Thats  basically what I've been doing. You've been on the forumz long enough to know this is true. Stop pretending like I just jumped on the bandwagon. Everyone who's been around here knows that I've been high on Jeffery since before the draft. 

 

You like the guy, but if couldn't understand why he wasn't a slam dunk draft pick I don't know what to tell you.

[Villain The Foe]

yeah it's Geno with the trust problem

 

 

lol

[Villain The Foe]

 

You like the guy, but if couldn't understand why he wasn't a slam dunk draft pick I don't know what to tell you.

This statement right here brother I can absolutely accept. When people defend Hill because he's a Jet I simply cant accept. Hill is playing like a bust. Yes, I understand the thought behind the pick. I simply cant understand how you pass on Jeffery even with that thought. It was a 2nd round pick, and even when he was "fat" he was pretty good, and he made it to the combine in shape and very sharp, like a WR. 

[JiFtheOracle]

And Jeffery IS better than Kerley, what does his numbers look like? I think you could be wrong. 

 

Huh?  This has nothing to do with my point.  lol

 

That said, I could be wrong...but I doubt it.

[Matt39]

yeah it's Geno with the trust problem

 

 

 

That throw is on Hill. a 6'4 receiver letting the CB beat him in front of the football is the sign of a bad WR. Hill didnt cut off his route soon enough allowing the CB(Verner) to get in front of him. A good wideout makes that play.

[bitonti]

That throw is on Hill

 

the only thing Stephen Hill could do different was duck and not try to catch that hospital ball.

 

 

people say Hill is a bust, the dude was on pace for a 1000 yard season before that throw in week 4.  it's not the only time Geno has hung him out there, he's been taking massive hits all year. 

 

single high safety, you don't throw the deep slant to the middle of the field. it should have never been thrown. it ended up being an interception not because Hill didn't do enough or run the route correctly but cause Geno made a very poor decision. 

 

note Santonio basically running wide open. 

[Matt39]

the only thing Stephen Hill could do different was duck and not try to catch that hospital ball.

 

 

people say Hill is a bust, the dude was on pace for a 1000 yard season before that throw in week 4. 

 

single high safety, let's throw the deep slant to the middle of the field. it should have never been thrown.

 

note Santonio basically running wide open. 

 

There's no such thing as a hospital ball anymore 9 times out of 10 a throw over the middle like that is a penalty. That was a good throw to a bad WR. It should have been called a penalty too...but Hill set himself up to get clobbered. Geno has the arm to make those throws with a safety over the top.

[bitonti]

There's no such thing as a hospital ball anymore 9 times out of 10 a throw over the middle like that is a penalty. That was a good throw to a bad WR. It should have been called a penalty too...but Hill set himself up to get clobbered. Geno has the arm to make those throws with a safety over the top.

 

we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Stephen Hill was concussed because Geno made a poor decision. there was nothing he could have done differently. 

[Matt39]

we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Stephen Hill was concussed because Geno made a poor decision. there was nothing he could have done differently. 

 

Not let a smaller CB body him too the football? Nelson has the same issues. A big WR who isnt physical is the last thing you want to be.

[Villain The Foe]

Huh?  This has nothing to do with my point.  lol

 

That said, I could be wrong...but I doubt it.

But it does have something to do with my point, which is Jeffery is a good receiver, and its not because of Marshall/Cutler, though it does help to have other playmakers around you. I will not deny that. I simply feel that when you have Jeffery on your team you have a "playmaker". Hill isnt a playmaker.

[#27TheDominator]

This statement right here brother I can absolutely accept. When people defend Hill because he's a Jet I simply cant accept. Hill is playing like a bust. Yes, I understand the thought behind the pick. I simply cant understand how you pass on Jeffery even with that thought. It was a 2nd round pick, and even when he was "fat" he was pretty good, and he made it to the combine in shape and very sharp, like a WR. 

 

 

Pretty good in college and lazy does not equal pretty good in the NFL

 

Not let a smaller CB body him too the football? Nelson has the same issues. A big WR who isnt physical is the last thing you want to be.

 

C'mon.  The smaller QB was running under him the entire route, presumably because he had safety help over.  It was a terrible idea to throw that ball - especially with Griffin waiting to decapitate Hill.  Lack of physicality had nothing to do with that pick.