jetsjetsjetss Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Name 1. you said not overspending in free agency every team has overpaid players. Sydney rice? also every team drafts players so obviously they build through the draft but they also build with free agency so what ur really saying is draft a top qb and win a super bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 And the thing is, the Saints didn't overpay for Brees. The rest of their roster was carved out mostly via the draft. Draft and SMART signings (with minimal or no overpays). That's how you build a roster. Every champion has done it that way. Great work, Purple Pirate. Can you imagine if Zach Miller had like an 11 million dollar cap hit last year? That would be crazy. you said not overspending in free agency every team has overpaid players. Sydney rice? also every team drafts players so obviously they build through the draft but they also build with free agency so what ur really saying is draft a top qb and win a super bowl? Or the Broncos signed like a QB for 100 million dollars? And the thing is, the Saints didn't overpay for Brees. The rest of their roster was carved out mostly via the draft. Draft and SMART signings (with minimal or no overpays). That's how you build a roster. Every champion has done it that way. Great work, Purple Pirate. How many of these teams went into the season 30 million dollars under the salary cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Can you imagine if Zach Miller had like an 11 million dollar cap hit last year? That would be crazy. Or the Broncos signed like a QB for 100 million dollars? How many of these teams went into the season 30 million dollars under the salary cap? I don't know if you know this, but the season doesn't start until after Labor Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 And the thing is, the Saints didn't overpay for Brees. The rest of their roster was carved out mostly via the draft. Draft and SMART signings (with minimal or no overpays). That's how you build a roster. Every champion has done it that way. Great work, Purple Pirate. depends on how you look at it. the saints gave up a 2nd rounder(or 2 cant remember) for a qb with a serious shoulder injury. quite a gamble that paid off. I also remember a few other trades and free agency aquisitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I don't know if you know this, but the season doesn't start until after Labor Day. I don't know if you know this but you are one snarky mother****er. Make your point like a man, not a teenaged girl, you're smart enough to do that, I've seen it. I know full well when the season starts. I'm just saying that let's not pretend you can build a championship team on the cheap or that you can do it through the draft. Every single one of those teams have high priced players, whether ones they drafted or signed. You don't OWN these guys, so if you wind up resigning a player that you drafted, you are basically spending money on a free agent. Built through the draft is such a nebulous assignation, it really means nothing. Not sure you noticed the QB's of every one of those teams, by the way. Those guys don't come cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just looking at the list, I find it hard to count the Saints and Brees, Favre and the Packers and the Ravens and Anquan Boldin being built through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I don't know if you know this but you are one snarky mother****er. Make your point like a man, not a teenaged girl, you're smart enough to do that, I've seen it. I know full well when the season starts. I'm just saying that let's not pretend you can build a championship team on the cheap or that you can do it through the draft. Every single one of those teams have high priced players, whether ones they drafted or signed. You don't OWN these guys, so if you wind up resigning a player that you drafted, you are basically spending money on a free agent. Built through the draft is such a nebulous assignation, it really means nothing. Not sure you noticed the QB's of every one of those teams, by the way. Those guys don't come cheap. Why am not surprised that someone who named himself after queen bitch Mark Gastineau would have a thin skin? But I digress. I've said it before, because of people like you I am sure I will say it again. ITS ONLY BEEN THREE ******* DAYS. THE JETS HAVE A PLAN AND ARE BEING SMART WITH THEIR MONEY RATHER THAN OVERPAYING FOR THE LIKES OF BRANDON PETTIGREW. THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THE DEEPEST DRAFTS EVER AND THE JETS CURRENTLY HAVE 9 PICKS. ASSESSING HOW A TEAM DID IN FREE AGENCY LESS THAN FOUR DAYS INTO A FREE AGENCY PERIOD IS EVEN DUMBER THAN ASSESSING A DRAFT BEFORE A TEAM PLAYS A GAME. How about you calm the **** down and see how this plays out and at one point I am sure John Idzik will do a press conference or sit with Eric Allen for an interview on NYJets.com and explain what the Jets strategy was and why they did or did not sign certain players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Why am not surprised that someone who named himself after queen bitch Mark Gastineau would have a thin skin? But I digress. I've said it before, because of people like you I am sure I will say it again. ITS ONLY BEEN THREE ******* DAYS. THE JETS HAVE A PLAN AND ARE BEING SMART WITH THEIR MONEY RATHER THAN OVERPAYING FOR THE LIKES OF BRANDON PETTIGREW. THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THE DEEPEST DRAFTS EVER AND THE JETS CURRENTLY HAVE 9 PICKS. ASSESSING HOW A TEAM DID IN FREE AGENCY LESS THAN FOUR DAYS INTO A FREE AGENCY PERIOD IS EVEN DUMBER THAN ASSESSING A DRAFT BEFORE A TEAM PLAYS A GAME. How about you calm the **** down and see how this plays out and at one point I am sure John Idzik will do a press conference or sit with Eric Allen for an interview on NYJets.com and explain what the Jets strategy was and why they did or did not sign certain players. This isn't my point, all caps. It wasn't really about Idzik specifically, from my point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The Packers haven't made a single big splash free agent signing. Nor have the 49ers. Or Seahawks. They're waiting for the draft. The 49ers lost a super bowl a year ago and are a super bowl contender, the Seahawks just won a super bowl, the Packers are an example of what? Without Rodgers that team pretty much sucks. We saw how they did last season without their QB. Yeah easy to build a team and not do much when you have a HOF type QB who has the weight of the world on his shoulders for that team. And even going back a year or two, yes, you need to build through the draft, but did anybody actually follow who was on the Seahawks ? They had quite a few players who came from free agency or trades that helped them win that super bowl. Hell the 49ers went out and grabbed Boldin. yeah you need to build from the draft, but you'd be blind to say the Seahawks just won the super bowl because it was all about the draft. I mean they were a team who pretty much made big trades/signings every damn year. Did they do it the first few days of free agency, no, but they still brought in a boatload of talent to help them win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Why am not surprised that someone who named himself after queen bitch Mark Gastineau would have a thin skin? But I digress. I've said it before, because of people like you I am sure I will say it again. ITS ONLY BEEN THREE ******* DAYS. THE JETS HAVE A PLAN AND ARE BEING SMART WITH THEIR MONEY RATHER THAN OVERPAYING FOR THE LIKES OF BRANDON PETTIGREW. THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THE DEEPEST DRAFTS EVER AND THE JETS CURRENTLY HAVE 9 PICKS. ASSESSING HOW A TEAM DID IN FREE AGENCY LESS THAN FOUR DAYS INTO A FREE AGENCY PERIOD IS EVEN DUMBER THAN ASSESSING A DRAFT BEFORE A TEAM PLAYS A GAME. How about you calm the **** down and see how this plays out and at one point I am sure John Idzik will do a press conference or sit with Eric Allen for an interview on NYJets.com and explain what the Jets strategy was and why they did or did not sign certain players. And about the thin skin, there are people on here you wouldn't talk to that way. Don't do it with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just looking at the list, I find it hard to count the Saints and Brees, Favre and the Packers and the Ravens and Anquan Boldin being built through the draft. You can point out a few players here and there that were picked up as free agents and were central to the role of their championships. But every single Super Bowl team acquired the overwhelming majority of its players via the draft, and didn't overspend in free agency. A lot of them also made some smart trades here and there. The alternative is the Dan Snyder Redskins, treating draft picks like garbage, or Tannenbaum always giving away picks to sign peoples' UFA's. It's just not a smart way to build a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 the Packers are an example of what? Without Rodgers that team pretty much sucks. And despite having Favre already on their roster, the Packers drafted Rodgers in the back end of the 1st round. Which a lot of people criticized them for at the time. Smart draft choices, smart money decisions in free agency, smart trades. That's how you build a perennial contender. Spending just to spend gets teams nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewPLP Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Why am not surprised that someone who named himself after queen bitch Mark Gastineau would have a thin skin? But I digress. I've said it before, because of people like you I am sure I will say it again. ITS ONLY BEEN THREE ******* DAYS. THE JETS HAVE A PLAN AND ARE BEING SMART WITH THEIR MONEY RATHER THAN OVERPAYING FOR THE LIKES OF BRANDON PETTIGREW. THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THE DEEPEST DRAFTS EVER AND THE JETS CURRENTLY HAVE 9 PICKS. ASSESSING HOW A TEAM DID IN FREE AGENCY LESS THAN FOUR DAYS INTO A FREE AGENCY PERIOD IS EVEN DUMBER THAN ASSESSING A DRAFT BEFORE A TEAM PLAYS A GAME. How about you calm the **** down and see how this plays out and at one point I am sure John Idzik will do a press conference or sit with Eric Allen for an interview on NYJets.com and explain what the Jets strategy was and why they did or did not sign certain players. Yes have a plan alright.. Do nothing and say we need 40 mil for draft picks... Yes the Jets have 12 picks, big deal, most are past round 5.. Unless you are some sort of practice squad hero, I don't expect to strike gold on a player in those rounds. Yes it could happen, but more than likely it's wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You can point out a few players here and there that were picked up as free agents and were central to the role of their championships. But every single Super Bowl team acquired the overwhelming majority of its players via the draft, and didn't overspend in free agency. A lot of them also made some smart trades here and there. The alternative is the Dan Snyder Redskins, treating draft picks like garbage, or Tannenbaum always giving away picks to sign peoples' UFA's. It's just not a smart way to build a team. I understand. I'm just saying that "building through the draft" is not as cut and dried as use of the cliche would indicate. The Broncos built through the draft right up until the time they signed Manning. It got them nowhere until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 And about the thin skin, there are people on here you wouldn't talk to that way. Don't do it with me. You might want to think about that before you write something like the following to me again, tough guy: I don't know if you know this but you are one snarky mother****er. Make your point like a man, not a teenaged girl, you're smart enough to do that, I've seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewPLP Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 And despite having Favre already on their roster, the Packers drafted Rodgers in the back end of the 1st round. Which a lot of people criticized them for at the time. Smart draft choices, smart money decisions in free agency, smart trades. That's how you build a perennial contender. Spending just to spend gets teams nowhere. Go into the season with question marks all over and hope all the 6th round draft picks are up to speed and ready for showtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 you said not overspending in free agency every team has overpaid players. Sydney rice? also every team drafts players so obviously they build through the draft but they also build with free agency so what ur really saying is draft a top qb and win a super bowl? QB is the most important position on the field, so yes, that's an important aspect. The teams that stockpiled QB's even when they already had their starter in place seem to have benefited the most. The Niners took Kaepernick in the 2nd round when they already had Alex Smith. The Seahawks took Russell Wilson in the 3rd after giving Matt Flynn big money. The Packers drafted Rodgers in the 1st round when they already had Favre. You don't always have to be picking 1st to get a top QB, as these teams have proven. Meanwhile, the teams who are taking these QB's also seem to have rosters that are well-rounded and full of talent. How did they get there? Smart draft picks (drafting the best possible players, not reaching for positions of need), smart trades, and smart free agent pickups. It takes a combination of those 3 factors. Overpaying 2 or 3 guys in free agency has never been part of the strategy of any perennial contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You might want to think about that before you write something like the following to me again, tough guy: You're the biggest tough guy here. I'd never mess with you in a million years, you know that. I'm just telling you, don't talk down to me. I don't think that's too much to ask. Unless such a request challenges your obviously inflated idea of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I understand. I'm just saying that "building through the draft" is not as cut and dried as use of the cliche would indicate. The Broncos built through the draft right up until the time they signed Manning. It got them nowhere until then. True, but they did surround Manning with talent nicely, at least on offense. Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, and Julius Thomas were all draft picks, and the former 2 had produced before nicely Peyton got there. So was Knowshon Moreno. Wes Welker they signed, yes. With a competent front office, head coach and some nice talent, it made the decision for Peyton to go there very easy. But generally teams don't find a Peyton Manning on the free agent list. Look at the QB's that were on the market this year. That's more of the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You're the biggest tough guy here. I'd never mess with you in a million years, you know that. I'm just telling you, don't talk down to me. applebees! applebees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yes have a plan alright.. Do nothing and say we need 40 mil for draft picks... Yes the Jets have 12 picks, big deal, most are past round 5.. Unless you are some sort of practice squad hero, I don't expect to strike gold on a player in those rounds. Yes it could happen, but more than likely it's wishful thinking. Show me where I even remotely suggested that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yes have a plan alright.. Do nothing and say we need 40 mil for draft picks... Yes the Jets have 12 picks, big deal, most are past round 5.. Unless you are some sort of practice squad hero, I don't expect to strike gold on a player in those rounds. Yes it could happen, but more than likely it's wishful thinking. Exactly, you gotta use all of your resources to improve a team--not just draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Go into the season with question marks all over and hope all the 6th round draft picks are up to speed and ready for showtime. We were never going to be a Super Bowl contender this year, whether we spent big in free agency or not, but our play this season could set up nicely for the future. The 12 draft choices we have will play a large role in that. Super Bowl contenders string together several successful years before they win a title, generally. That's what we're trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 QB is the most important position on the field, so yes, that's an important aspect. The teams that stockpiled QB's even when they already had their starter in place seem to have benefited the most. The Niners took Kaepernick in the 2nd round BECAUSE they had Alex Smith. The Seahawks took Russell Wilson in the 3rd after giving Matt Flynn big money. The Packers drafted Rodgers in the 1st round when they already had Favre. You don't always have to be picking 1st to get a top QB, as these teams have proven. Meanwhile, the teams who are taking these QB's also seem to have rosters that are well-rounded and full of talent. How did they get there? Smart draft picks (drafting the best possible players, not reaching for positions of need), smart trades, and smart free agent pickups. It takes a combination of those 3 factors. Overpaying 2 or 3 guys in free agency has never been part of the strategy of any perennial contender. Bold part fixed. I agree with everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Exactly, you gotta use all of your resources to improve a team--not just draft picks. But to you, "improving the team" means signing guys up to the salary cap, no matter what other factors are involved. Signing the wrong players to big deals and having it blow up in your face is far worse than under-spending in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 But to you, "improving the team" means signing guys up to the salary cap, no matter what other factors are involved. Signing the wrong players to big deals and having it blow up in your face is far worse than under-spending in free agency. No, not up to the salary cap. I just posted in another thread that if Idzik uses $25M more of the $40M he will have after cutting Sanchez to improve the team, and he gets similar value to the value he got in the Decker deal, then I will be supportive of this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I understand. I'm just saying that "building through the draft" is not as cut and dried as use of the cliche would indicate. The Broncos built through the draft right up until the time they signed Manning. It got them nowhere until then. Another point on this: The Broncos got a playoff victory with Tim Tebow as their QB. Many people thought they were idiots for casting Tebow aside so easily for a QB coming off 4 neck surgeries. Clearly, they knew what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You're the biggest tough guy here. I'd never mess with you in a million years, you know that. I'm just telling you, don't talk down to me. I don't think that's too much to ask. Unless such a request challenges your obviously inflated idea of yourself. Dude, I didn't talk down to you. It was a comeback after you called me a bitch and little girl. If you're gonna dish it out... As far as being a tough guy - show me a post where I ever threatened someone. It's never happened. I've made fun of plenty of ITGs. I'm not one myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 We were never going to be a Super Bowl contender this year, whether we spent big in free agency or not, but our play this season could set up nicely for the future. The 12 draft choices we have will play a large role in that. Super Bowl contenders string together several successful years before they win a title, generally. That's what we're trying to do. The number one asset to building a championship team is be good at drafting I don't disagree and I'd never advocate going spend crazy in FA. I just think when there are prove commodities available for a reasonable amount of money (how TB got away with that contract, I'll never know) relying on the crapshoot that is the NFL draft seems like the weaker choice. It's a case by case thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No, not up to the salary cap. I just posted in another thread that if Idzik uses $25M more of the $40M he will have after cutting Sanchez to improve the team, and he gets similar value to the value he got in the Decker deal, then I will be supportive of this off-season. But who are you using that $25M on? Keep in mind that Decker got a 5-year deal. We're not looking for people who will only be here for 2 seasons. What free agents did we pass on that would be helping this team in 2016? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No, not up to the salary cap. I just posted in another thread that if Idzik uses $25M more of the $40M he will have after cutting Sanchez to improve the team, and he gets similar value to the value he got in the Decker deal, then I will be supportive of this off-season. Can you wait until free agency plays out so you can see if he does that. If May 1st rolls around and we haven't spent any more money, I'll be right there with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The number one asset to building a championship team is be good at drafting I don't disagree and I'd never advocate going spend crazy in FA. I just think when there are prove commodities available for a reasonable amount of money (how TB got away with that contract, I'll never know) relying on the crapshoot that is the NFL draft seems like the weaker choice. It's a case by case thing. The draft is only a "crapshoot" to the weaker teams. Yes, the Packers, Steelers, 49ers and Seahawks have whiffed on their fair share of draft picks. But they also tend to find the late round "gems" far more often than other teams do. If it all really came down to just random chance and luck, teams wouldn't invest millions and millions on scouting and make sweeping front office changes year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewPLP Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Same people here thinking Idzik doing a good job same people that buy their basketball sneakers at Payless discount... Sorry, I like my Nikes... Where did most of you lose common sense.... FA is now a bad thing and we should sign nobody? Drinking the Idzik kool-aid or full blown retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Dude, I didn't talk down to you. It was a comeback after you called me a bitch and little girl. If you're gonna dish it out... As far as being a tough guy - show me a post where I ever threatened someone. It's never happened. I've made fun of plenty of ITGs. I'm not one myself. Unless you were honestly pointing out the start of the NFL season to someone who spends an inordinate (unhealthy?) amount of time on a football fan website, you were indeed acting like a high school girl. Tone goes a long way. You wouldn't take that tone with any number of people on here, so I ask the same respect. I don't have a problem with you. I'm tired of talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Unless you were honestly pointing out the start of the NFL season to someone who spends an inordinate (unhealthy?) amount of time on a football fan website, you were indeed acting like a high school girl. Tone goes a long way. You wouldn't take that tone with any number of people on here, so I ask the same respect. I don't have a problem with you. I'm tired of talking about it. Oh gimme a break. Like I'm the only smartass on this board. I can only imagine how you would react if the rib thread was directed at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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