Dia de Muerto - Mafia Win

[Integrity28]

holy sh*t.  someone please kill the Ape. 

 

thanks

 

How many times have you quit mafia completely over the years?

[HessStation]

That it? Thank god.. not fun at all. See you in 2 weeks

Owned u.

[Verbal]

Alright, I'll make a case in my defense before I go out.

 

 

First of all, I think you missed this post in your ISO, Verbal:

 

 

No, I saw it.....but you had been on his ass up until you just switched gears off him and provided no actual reasoning for it.  There was no shift in your read, or even you questioning.  You just did a 180 based on what the momentum looked like at the time....which is what makes me uneasy.

[Integrity28]

I'm wary of anyone making immediate "frame" cases on people that spoke out against the Pac lynch, btw. As I always say, town doesn't know how not to look bad. I think it more important to look at what those people were saying, if their logic was clearly naive town, then that's probably what they are - if they were just being divisive and introducing new trains to stall and/or falter the Pac train, then I think they are worth looking at.

 

Anyone that passionately insisted that someone else is scum, and then jumped on Pac is probably dirty. I think the thing to look at there is how sincere they may or may not have been with their reluctance to do so. Like, I think when someone reluctantly moves to a scum train but sort of attributes the move to other people, they are probably town afraid of not following their gut and being wrong. There's no basis for scum to vote scum and attribute it to other people, unless they are very, very good at the psychological side of faking scum. Get what I'm saying?

[Verbal]

I said he was scum and voted for him d1.

 

Right, but he was on your ass D1 as well.  I'm talking about much later, when he stopped coming at you.  But he's addressing this now, I guess.

[HessStation]

I'm wary of anyone making immediate "frame" cases on people that spoke out against the Pac lynch, btw. As I always say, town doesn't know how not to look bad. I think it more important to look at what those people were saying, if their logic was clearly naive town, then that's probably what they are - if they were just being divisive and introducing new trains to stall and/or falter the Pac train, then I think they are worth looking at.

Anyone that passionately insisted that someone else is scum, and then jumped on Pac is probably dirty. I think the thing to look at there is how sincere they may or may not have been with their reluctance to do so. Like, I think when someone reluctantly moves to a scum train but sort of attributes the move to other people, they are probably town afraid of not following their gut and being wrong. There's no basis for scum to vote scum and attribute it to other people, unless they are very, very good at the psychological side of faking scum. Get what I'm saying?

Nope

[JustInFudge]

How many times have you quit mafia completely over the years?

 

Not enough.  It will happen again.  Why?  Because I can and I will and want to.  Be prepared.

 

Now stfu and die.

[DPR]

Also, what came of DPR's "sudden death" mini game? Is that a wash because we finally lynched?

 

It was not needed because the lynch was made.

[WWWWombat]

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (3) - Crush, Lizard, JiF

Ape (1) - Lia

Wombat (4) - Lily, Pac, AVM, Verb

Pac (4) - 80, Leelou, Wombat

Smash (1) - Hally

JiF (1) - Arsis

Hally (1) - SMC

Darthe (1) - Hess

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 15.5 hours

 

 

I'm on Pac.  AVM, Verb, and Lily voting with him.

 

 

Evidently, that many times.

 

Space a line in between votes and such, and always bold. I'm colorblind and the patch doesn't help things ether. An old pirate does what he has to...

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (3) - Crush, Lizard, JiF

Wombat (4) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder

Pac (4) - 80, Leelou, Wombat, AVM

Smash (1) - Hally

JiF (1) - Arsis

Hally (1) - SMC

Darthe (1) - Hess

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 15.5 hours

 

AVM switched to Pac.  Nolder on me.  Town points for AVM imo.

 

 

I find it highly amusing that we now have a Mexican standoff in this particular game.

 

 

Ok I'll give you that. I still don't know what you think scum is going to do with the knowledge I think you're referring to. 

If you can give me a good reason this hurts town, not helps scum because we all know more knowledge is better than less, but actually hurts us then I'll apologize and admit you were right but until then I stand by what I've said.

 

You know what that most likely means right? At least one of the three is probably scum, possibly 2/3 even.

 

I was playing a sh*tty TD game. Also I have nothing to say right now anyway, did you want something?

 

Interesting sequence here.  Looks like possible TMI to me by Nolder but could be confirmation bias.

 

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (4) - Crush, Lizard, JiF, Ape

Wombat (4) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder

Pac (6) - 80, Leelou, Wombat, AVM, Arsis, Hess

Smash (1) - Hally

Hally (1) - SMC

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 12.5 hours

 

 

Arsis and Hess on Pac.  Townish.

 

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (4) - Crush, Lizard, JiF, Ape

Wombat (4) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder

Pac (7) - 80, Leelou, Wombat, AVM, Arsis, Hess, Smash

Smash (1) - Hally

Hally (1) - SMC

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 12.5 hours

 

 

Already thought Smash was town.

 

 

Guys who jumped after Nolders dumb post.

 

Guaranteed scum in here.  If they were town they would know that the OP doesn't say anything about how the recruiting works...  like at all.

 

Very interesting post by Pac.  Probably thought he was getting lynched at this point, so I'm guessing WIFOM.

 

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (3) - Crush, JiF, Ape

Wombat (7) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder, Arsis, Hally, Lizard

Pac (5) - 80, Leelou, AVM, Hess, Smash

Hally (1) - SMC

Nolder (1) - Wombat

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in <12 hours

 

 

I derp and switch to Nolder.  Arsis, Hally, and Lizzy are now on me.  Looks terrible for Hally.  Not sure about the other two.

 

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (4) - Crush, JiF, Ape, Wombat

Wombat (8) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder, Arsis, Hally, Lizard, Lia

Pac (6) - 80, Leelou, AVM, Hess, Smash, SMC

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 2.5 hours

 

 

Lia on me, SMC on Pac.  Looks townish for SMC but not sure.  He's prob not getting lynched soon anyway.

[WWWWombat]

Looks like I'm in time.

 

unvote

Vote Pac

 

 

I'm mostly voting you to stay alive at this point.  Scum clearly played us by getting us to not lynch Verbal or Nolder.

 

Self-explanatory.

 

 

 

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (2) - Crush, JiF

Wombat (8) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder, Arsis, Hally, Lizard, Lia

Pac (8) - 80, Leelou, AVM, Hess, Smash, SMC, Wombat, Ape

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 32 minutes.

 

 

Deadlocked trains with 32 min left.

[Integrity28]

Nope

 

I'm talking about sensing instinctive town logic driven posts, versus faked townie sounding posts. Will be easier to just show some examples if I find any.

[Verbal]

@Ape - let's be clear.  I wasn't trolling you.  I was arguing with you, and we went back & forth with insults and cases.  We probably both twisted each others' words as well.  There was no false meta involved - you began this game very differently than usual.  I realize now that it was due to work, but that doesn't mean I was trolling you.  It means I didn't know why you were being different and attributed those differences to scumtells.  Wrong?  Yeah, obviously.  But wrong because I didn't have all the information?  Yup.

 

So please drop the assertion that I trolled you.

[Integrity28]

We're moving to SD in the next couple years, fiance is from there originally, lots of family down there.

Pac: I feel for ya, I'm the non dog person here. I like dogs, I just don't want to deal with taking care of them.

So either I vote Pac for not being super helpful according to others which would be ******* rich coming from me or I vote Womby for being too talky and aggressive. At least from the wagons I see right now, not sure if I'll get on before end of phase or not. Of the two I think too talky/trying to be helpful but putting up a lot of sh*t to muddy the waters seems more scummy to me.

Womby

 

 

This post pinged at the time. Click it, then see my reaction. I forgot to multi-quote.

 

She's staying on my list.

[Verbal]

@Wombat - those posts make it look like you bussed early, and then switched when it got more imminent, and then switched back again when it was obvious one of you was being lynched.  You even posted to him like you thought he might be town "Scum clearly played us by getting us to not lynch Verbal or Nolder."  That was to Pac.  That looks like a bus, dude.

 

On a scum lynch, there is always an early bus and some spread out votes.  If 2 scum are the lynch options, scum will abandon all pretenses and bus the sh*t out of each other to hope someone will look good coming out of it.

[WWWWombat]

No reason other than gut feeling, that killing Pac instead of Wombat would be a mistake. I think Wombat has been Super Townie and forcing himself into everything which is really coming off badly to me. My game isn't far enough to make a strong logical case, but my gut reads in the past 3 games have been about 75% right. fwiw.

 

Crap case by Lizzie.  Trying to steer away from Pac and towards me.  Not sure what it says about him as I think scum might have come with something more solid.

 

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (1) - JiF

Wombat (9) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder, Arsis, Hally, Lizard, Lia, Crusher

Pac (8) - 80, Leelou, AVM, Hess, Smash, SMC, Wombat, Ape

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 12 minutes.

 

 

 

THAT is one ugly vote.

 

 

13 mins to deadline.

 

 

Deadline is actually at 9:23 EST. Check the OP timestamp.

 

72 hours, amigos - that's all you get.

 

 

5 minutes.  Verbal I see you on thread.  Change your vote and I'll consider not shooting you tonight.

 

80 "ultimatum"

 

Nice unvote

 

 

Vote 80

 

 

Move to number 1B for me. Scum tries and control the narrative. Kill this pig.

 

Crusher derping.

 

 

I offer the same to you.  Hammer Wombat.

 

Verbal counters.

[HessStation]

I'm talking about sensing instinctive town logic driven posts, versus faked townie sounding posts. Will be easier to just show some examples if I find any.

I'm just being a dick.

[WWWWombat]

As an accompaniment to a case, not THE case entirely, which is what 80 is pushing on PAC.

 

80's PAC Push- pure Meta

My point of view, logic with meta.

 

Scumbat. 

 

Lizzie pushes me over Pac again.

 

 

Shoot I thought 72 more hours.

 

unvote

 

vote Pac

 

80 your so ******* smart **** you

 

Crusher's vote was actually in time but didn't end up doing much.  Crusher still town imo.

[Integrity28]

@Ape - let's be clear.  I wasn't trolling you.  I was arguing with you, and we went back & forth with insults and cases.  We probably both twisted each others' words as well.  There was no false meta involved - you began this game very differently than usual.  I realize now that it was due to work, but that doesn't mean I was trolling you.  It means I didn't know why you were being different and attributed those differences to scumtells.  Wrong?  Yeah, obviously.  But wrong because I didn't have all the information?  Yup.

 

So please drop the assertion that I trolled you.

 

Nolder was trolling me, and I contend that you were too. I also stand by my opinion that you were presenting town tells as scum tells, and using things in your holistic case that contradicted the meta of me being "precise and calculated" when I'm scum.

 

It's all on the thread already, no point in re-hashing it. When we reach a level of arguing where you a blatantly saying that I call things scum behavior (like the CTM strategy of townie self preserve), when I clearly did not say that, and then end the post with "you're turn sweetheart" or whatever you said. That's trolling for more argument, imo.

 

I'm entitled to call it what it is. You are entitled to claim that's not the case. What I'm not going to do is go right back into it. I may have misunderstood some of what you said, but the majority of what I tried to address from your posts was misinformation and that's why I put the effort I did into straightening it out.

 

It's done. We've both forced each other into being top contributors - let the rest of the players evaluate now. 

[WWWWombat]

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (1) - JiF

Wombat (8) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder, Arsis, Hally, Lizard, Lia

Pac (8) - 80, Leelou, AVM, Hess, Smash, SMC, Wombat, Ape

80 (1) - Crusher

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 1 minute.

 

 

 

Someone please hammer Pac so everyone can see that 80 is a dumbass.

 

 

We can't - Wombat was the one at L-1 until you moved off.

 

 

He voted Pac. 

 

 

I moved to pac because 8- knows everything.  Keeop ******* with me and I will vote you next

 

 

Crusher & JiF - CHOOSE.

 

 

 

Amazing sequence here.  Crusher puts Pac at L - 1 and Verbal doesn't see it because DPR ****ed up the vote count.  Leelou and Crusher both correct Verbal, but apparently, he isn't reading and lets deadline pass without hammering Pac while trying to blame it on Crusher and JiF.

[WWWWombat]

In conclusion, roast Verbal please.

[Integrity28]

@Wombat - those posts make it look like you bussed early, and then switched when it got more imminent, and then switched back again when it was obvious one of you was being lynched.  You even posted to him like you thought he might be town "Scum clearly played us by getting us to not lynch Verbal or Nolder."  That was to Pac.  That looks like a bus, dude.

 

On a scum lynch, there is always an early bus and some spread out votes.  If 2 scum are the lynch options, scum will abandon all pretenses and bus the sh*t out of each other to hope someone will look good coming out of it.

 

Always? I've been on scum teams where my whole scum team put the last 4 votes in order on a train. I've been on scum teams where none of us have bussed. I'd be careful with absolute statements like this... 

[WWWWombat]

No, I saw it.....but you had been on his ass up until you just switched gears off him and provided no actual reasoning for it.  There was no shift in your read, or even you questioning.  You just did a 180 based on what the momentum looked like at the time....which is what makes me uneasy.

 

That is reasoning.  Derptown is a reason.

[WWWWombat]

@Wombat - those posts make it look like you bussed early, and then switched when it got more imminent, and then switched back again when it was obvious one of you was being lynched.  You even posted to him like you thought he might be town "Scum clearly played us by getting us to not lynch Verbal or Nolder."  That was to Pac.  That looks like a bus, dude.

 

On a scum lynch, there is always an early bus and some spread out votes.  If 2 scum are the lynch options, scum will abandon all pretenses and bus the sh*t out of each other to hope someone will look good coming out of it.

 

Don't care.  You let Pac live when you could have hammered him.

[WWWWombat]

I also like how Verbal "retracted" his reads when Ape went emo but all of a sudden he's ISO'd me (while missing posts) and has a scum read on me again.

[HessStation]

This is like Christmas.

[WWWWombat]

Don't have time to do D2 as I have to go.  You guys can do that.  Kill Verbal and Nolder.

[Verbal]

Amazing sequence here.  Crusher puts Pac at L - 1 and Verbal doesn't see it because DPR ****ed up the vote count.  Leelou and Crusher both correct Verbal, but apparently, he isn't reading and lets deadline pass without hammering Pac while trying to blame it on Crusher and JiF.

 

Do you see the timestamps on that?  They are the same ******* minute?  I'm not reading?  Is that seriously your angle?

[Verbal]

Always? I've been on scum teams where my whole scum team put the last 4 votes in order on a train. I've been on scum teams where none of us have bussed. I'd be careful with absolute statements like this... 

 

Few and far in between.  This is a bus-happy group.  Rare is the case where scum don't bus at least a little.

[Verbal]

I also like how Verbal "retracted" his reads when Ape went emo but all of a sudden he's ISO'd me (while missing posts) and has a scum read on me again.

 

lolwut

 

My read didn't change on you - it changed on Ape.  How are those related?  I retracted my read on Ape because I respect his gamesmanship and know he would not pull that as scum.  Never. 

 

I had you guys as #1 and #2 for most of the game - are you going to argue differently?

[Integrity28]

We're moving to SD in the next couple years, fiance is from there originally, lots of family down there.

Pac: I feel for ya, I'm the non dog person here. I like dogs, I just don't want to deal with taking care of them.

So either I vote Pac for not being super helpful according to others which would be ******* rich coming from me or I vote Womby for being too talky and aggressive. At least from the wagons I see right now, not sure if I'll get on before end of phase or not. Of the two I think too talky/trying to be helpful but putting up a lot of sh*t to muddy the waters seems more scummy to me.

Womby

 

This is that same post by Lia, it's the one that put Wombat at L2. FYI

 

 

Current Vote Count:

 

Verb (2) - Crush, JiF

Wombat (8) - Lily, Pac, Verb, Nolder, Arsis, Hally, Lizard, Lia

Pac (8) - 80, Leelou, AVM, Hess, Smash, SMC, Wombat, Ape

 

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline in 32 minutes.

 

 

After this, Crusher came in and flobbered around from Wombat to Pac, which looked awful. Crusher and Lia, definitely stay on my list. Verb and Nolder can stay too, for now. I'm trying to decide if Verbal threw the "scum always busses this way" post out there, BECAUSE their whole team might be on Wombat here? 

 

Which sets up lots of mislynching from the Pac train, trying to find the scum mates bussing him. 

[Verbal]

Don't care.  You let Pac live when you could have hammered him.

 

When I posted with maybe a minute or two left, I was ninja'd by the correction from Leelou & Crusher.  Looking at the vote count, it looked like Pac and you were tied....after you had been the one at L-1 a few minutes before that.

 

So I said for them to choose, as they, ACCORDING TO THE POSTED VOTE COUNT I SAW, were the only 2 not on the trains.

 

I'm surprised you are arguing this against me when you even quoted them and the timestamps are amazingly clear.

[Verbal]

This is that same post by Lia, it's the one that put Wombat at L2. FYI

 

 

After this, Crusher came in and flobbered around from Wombat to Pac, which looked awful. Crusher and Lia, definitely stay on my list. Verb and Nolder can stay too, for now. I'm trying to decide if Verbal threw the "scum always busses this way" post out there, BECAUSE their whole team might be on Wombat here? 

 

Which sets up lots of mislynching from the Pac train, trying to find the scum mates bussing him. 

 

You could be right - the whole team could be on Wombat here.....but I'm not one of them. 

[Verbal]

I feel like Wombat is trying to defend the case on him, but is actually doing the opposite.

[Lizard King]

Oy. Lot of work in RL. Come back to this later. Can't pretend to read this right now

[Integrity28]

lolwut

 

My read didn't change on you - it changed on Ape.  How are those related?  I retracted my read on Ape because I respect his gamesmanship and know he would not pull that as scum.  Never. 

 

I had you guys as #1 and #2 for most of the game - are you going to argue differently?

 

What happened had nothing to do with my alignment. By you saying I'd never do that as scum, you imply that I needed to fake-emo to get heat off of me... People weren't siding with you, they were siding with me. There's no pretense for me need to do anything, no matter what my alignment was at that point. I wasn't the lynch, I wasn't getting heat. 

 

 

It's starting to feel like you are using this to back-off a losing entanglement.