Weigh In On D'Brick D'Bate

[Dcat]

Brick would have many suitors on the open market. He has no incentive to take a pay cut. they can either restructure him with upfront bonus money, they can let his contract play out, or they can cut him. The pay cut route is optimistic. 

not one of the alleged suitors would be willing to pay anything close to what Brick's contact calls for next year. One way or another,  Brick will be facing a reduced contact. Just say no to deferring cap hits to the future when Brick becomes even less effective. 

[bitonti]

As far as threatening to cut goes, the player and agent initially get all pissey about it.  Then the agent looks at it and may see that what D'Brick gets on the open market may not be a whole lot more than what the Jets are proposing for a pay cut, no one is going to give him what we owe him now.  Then comes the relocation factor, does he have kids in school?  Does his wife like it here?  Brick would instantly become the #1 LT on the market but as I said is he going to get more than we are prepared to live with?  Sometimes this stuff comes down to pride.

 

(And I am not a fan of any restructure which defers liability more, if there is a way as one poster stated to convert remaining liabilities into a lower gaunatr5eed pay then perhaps.)

if my internet sleuthing is correct, Brick has a 1 year old, not in school. 

maybe he would be willing to accept a pay cut after June 1 but then again the Jets would have even less time to find a replacement if Brick calls their bluff.

And make no mistake, it is a bluff they can't cut this player without a replacement. Well they could but it would be dumb. That's the bottom line the Jets don't have even a developmental replacement.  I don't see why Brick would take a pay cut in a situation where he has all the leverage. 

 

The jets cutting Brick would be like when Chip Kelly cut Evan Mathis. Except that it's even more of a problem cause Brick isn't a guard.  Mathis is playing in the Super Bowl this week by the way, his team wasn't willing to pay him his rate, cut him even without having a replacement, and he moved on and found success elsewhere.  While the team he left never replaced him, the OL was a mess all year, and they struggled so badly that everyone got fired. 

 

purely from a perspective of how the front office looks the team needs to get better not worse. the fanbase will not abide a team getting worse. Not in this market.  It's a safer move for Mac to pay this player than to pull a Chip Kelly 

[SenorGato]

while they are better than Breno they are not good enough to play LT. If they could, they would already.

Right now at the senior bowl they are taking college left tackle and moving them to guard. they are taking college left tackles and moving them to right. They characterize these players early. These characterizations stick if a guy isn't fast enough to do it at 22 he won't be fast enough at 29. These players only get slower as the years go by. 

I understand why people aren't happy with Brick's number but I am not a buyer on signing a RT and hoping he can switch. 

They're not just better than Breno, but way better and mostly years younger as well. In a world where the Jets were paying top tier money for one of the worst starting LTs in the league a couple years, it's maybe a risk worth taking. 

I don't know what that second paragraph means, but I'm going to say  that the trend at the NFL level seems to be a more fungible OL where the good ones can play inside or out, either side of the line. 

While I understand your nervousness over taking a risk and getting way younger, more physical, more athletic, and generally all around better on the line, it might be worth it for the Jets. It certainly beats paying huge money for one of the sharpest declining players at the LT position over the past 2-3 years. 

[bitonti]

They're not just better than Breno, but way better and mostly years younger as well. In a world where the Jets were paying top tier money for one of the worst starting LTs in the league a couple years, it's maybe a risk worth taking. 

I don't know what that second paragraph means, but I'm going to say  that the trend at the NFL level seems to be a more fungible OL where the good ones can play inside or out, either side of the line. 

While I understand your nervousness over taking a risk and getting way younger, more physical, more athletic, and generally all around better on the line, it might be worth it for the Jets. It certainly beats paying huge money for one of the sharpest declining players at the LT position over the past 2-3 years. 

my nervousness stems from the fact that we've been discussing cutting Brick for weeks and no one's come up with a convincing list of replacements. That younger more physical athletic all around better player, who is he? how much will he cost? 

The tackles that can play either side of the line are like Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson top 5 picks. in other words they were drafted high to be LT eventually. The chances of a guy like Andre Smith or Mitchell Schwartz swapping to the left side are exceedingly small.  There is a huge difference between LT and RT in the NFL they aren't fungible. 

[SenorGato]

my nervousness stems from the fact that we've been discussing cutting Brick for weeks and no one's come up with a convincing list of replacements. That younger more physical athletic all around better player, who is he? how much will he cost? 

The tackles that can play either side of the line are like Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson top 5 picks. in other words they were drafted high to be LT eventually. The chances of a guy like Andre Smith or Mitchell Schwartz swapping to the left side are exceedingly small.  There is a huge difference between LT and RT in the NFL they aren't fungible. 

There's tons of candidates to replace him, you're just not into it. It certainly doesn't require the tanking or top 5 pick resources you've been going on about. 

Andre Smith was drafted 9th as a LT. Sebastian Vollmer gets shifted to LT whenever the Pats need despite not being a top 5 pick. I'm too lazy to think of more but there's definitely more as the LT and RT positions become more and more fungible in today's league. I'd say Schwartz is the longest shot of the group I listed, but he's been so steady for so long with the right size for the position that he'd probably do alright.

[bitonti]

There's tons of candidates to replace him, you're just not into it. It certainly doesn't require the tanking or top 5 pick resources you've been going on about. 

Andre Smith was drafted 9th as a LT. Sebastian Vollmer gets shifted to LT whenever the Pats need despite not being a top 5 pick. I'm too lazy to think of more but there's definitely more as the LT and RT positions become more and more fungible in today's league. I'd say Schwartz is the longest shot of the group I listed, but he's been so steady for so long with the right size for the position that he'd probably do alright.

Andre Smith never lived up to his draft pick. By the standards of being a top 10 pick he busted. 

Vollmer got roasted at LT so badly it ended their season. 

saying these guys can play LT is  basically just hoping 

[RutgersJetFan]

[SenorGato]

Andre Smith never lived up to his draft pick. By the standards of being a top 10 pick he busted. 

Vollmer got roasted at LT so badly it ended their season. 

saying these guys can play LT is  basically just hoping 

- Nope

- Yes, they lost a game and probably he had a bad game, always a possibility that a LT has a rough day against Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware. He's also been the best pass protecting RT of the decade according to FO, IIRC,  and is a solid all around OT in the grand scheme rather than just the one loss. 

Bringing D'Brick back for $14 million doesn't even offer the hope these guys offer. Both are bigger, younger, and have performed at high levels over a period of years in both the pass and run game. Restructuring him and locking him in for two years offers even less hope at this stage. 

All that said - I've been thinking lately that Schwartz might be the best buy of the bunch. He's been making peanuts, is entering his prime years as an OT, and has been so consistently good since entering the league.

[bitonti]

Bringing D'Brick back for $14 million doesn't even offer the hope these guys offer.

there's zero hope that a free agent starting RT could become a starting LT. That literally never happens.  If they sign Schwartz it's to replace Breno. Not to replace Brick. 

[SenorGato]

there's zero hope that a free agent starting RT could become a starting LT. That literally never happens.  If they sign Schwartz it's to replace Breno. Not to replace Brick. 

There's negative hope in bringing back D'Brick at $14 million next year, so looks like they'd be coming out ahead!

I'm into finding long term replacements for both tackles, and would also draft a T. Shon Coleman is who I have in mind, but probably there's others.

[bitonti]

There's negative hope in bringing back D'Brick at $14 million next year, so looks like they'd be coming out ahead!

I'm into finding long term replacements for both tackles, and would also draft a T. Shon Coleman is who I have in mind, but probably there's others.

Long term replacements come from the draft. Starters come from free agency and they cost money. Tons of money. 

Even "instant starter" draft guys like top 5/10 LT usually take a year or two to settle into the job, even if they play day 1. 

if the Jets had invested a long term project a few years ago it would be no problem to cut Brick. My problem isn't that Brick is damn great it's that they have no alternatives. Signing Mitchell Schwartz and moving him to LT is ludicrous. It's not a solution it's a prayer. 

[SenorGato]

Long term replacements come from the draft. Starters come from free agency and they cost money. Tons of money. 

Even "instant starter" draft guys like top 5/10 LT usually take a year or two to settle into the job, even if they play day 1. 

if the Jets had invested a long term project a few years ago it would be no problem to cut Brick. My problem isn't that Brick is damn great it's that they have no alternatives. Signing Mitchell Schwartz and moving him to LT is ludicrous. It's not a solution it's a prayer. 

D'Brick costs more and he's not as good as many of these also younger players have been. From the sounds of it, he's been legitimately bad at LT and not as difficult to replace as you are portraying...Yet somehow this never seems to cross your mind or come into play when you talk about the Jets' 2016 LT situation.

Keeping D'Brick is a solution in the sense that it's the easiest thing to do. As far as getting performance, value and improving the team, he doesn't seem like a solution at all. You're overvaluing a job title, the name, and tradition, seemingly not paying attention to anything else about D'Brick or alternatives.