Buster Skrine.. & how $1 billion in cap space could alter NFL free agency ~ ~ ~

[ljr]

4 hours ago, Colgateman said:

Funny how some of the guys in this thread are sh*tting on Skrine when he's one of the better nickel corners, but then act like trashpatrick is good, the Delusion! 

There are plenty of other threads to debate the pluses and minuses of our QB options ... The nickel CB thread is probably not the best place for it, jmo

[Jetdawgg]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Revis got 17 plus. Cro got 8. Why give a skit corner that much coin? Don't you think it could have been better used elsewhere? Considering he was a replacement level player and was outplayed by UDFAs, he was unnecessary. Period. Overpaid. Overrated. 

Kyle Wilson was outplayed for 5 seasons. Skrine is an upgrade and the Jets were 10 and 6. Where is the argument?

[CrazyCarl40]

3 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

Kyle Wilson was outplayed for 5 seasons. Skrine is an upgrade and the Jets were 10 and 6. Where is the argument?

Who would you rather have: Skrine for 8 million and NT Deon Simon or NT Snacks and Marcus Williams or McDougal playing the slot? Choice is pretty simple. Overpaying a third corner makes it difficult to pay other, better players. 

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Who would you rather have: Skrine for 8 million and NT Deon Simon or NT Snacks and Marcus Williams or McDougal playing the slot? Choice is pretty simple. Overpaying a third corner makes it difficult to pay other, better players. 

You take the pass defense in Skrine pretty easily. One misses 46%+ of the snaps, the other misses 31.something%.

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

You take the pass defense in Skrine pretty easily. One misses 46%+ of the snaps, the other misses 31.something%.

That's your opinion. I'll take the best player at his position and someone who can play slot corner at league average over an overrated slot corner and an unknown quanitity at a vital position in the 3-4 defense. It's not even a question. And playing time means nothing when the 3rd CB is ineffective far more than the NT. 

[SenorGato]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's your opinion. I'll take the best player at his position and someone who can play slot corner at league average over an overrated slot corner and an unknown quanitity at a vital position in the 3-4 defense. It's not even a question. And playing time means nothing when the 3rd CB is ineffective far more than the NT. 

Oh, if it's a talent and impact thing (yay), give me Wilkerson amd Skrine, running with a cheap NT combo like Simon and BJ Raji, over Harrison and unknown at CB. No D player who isn't even on the field half the D snaps is worth what Harrison will get in FA, particularly with all his value being tied up in run defense.

[SenorGato]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's your opinion. I'll take the best player at his position and someone who can play slot corner at league average over an overrated slot corner and an unknown quanitity at a vital position in the 3-4 defense. It's not even a question. And playing time means nothing when the 3rd CB is ineffective far more than the NT. 

Meh, there's more ways to work around not having Harrison than not having a quality 3rd CB that has shown a good ceiling against the pass and is only 27. If it's about talent and impact, then you keep Wilkerson, Skrine, and somehow manage to survive with Wilkerson/Williams/Richardson working with/around the Jets' latest cheap NT option/s. If it's about stopping keeping a low payroll and defending the run, then sure go Harrison and ?? at slot corner.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Oh, if it's a talent and impact thing (yay), give me Wilkerson amd Skrine, running with a cheap NT combo like Simon and BJ Raji, over Harrison and unknown at CB. No D player who isn't even on the field half the D snaps is worth what Harrison will get in FA, particularly with all his value being tied up in run defense.

Who said anything about Wilkerson? Good lord. 

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Who said anything about Wilkerson? Good lord. 

It's not really a black/white either/or situation. You went from who asking who you would rather spend on based on opportunity cost to making the same decision based on talent. In the case of talent, Harrison is not the best Jets DL available in FA and the best player the Jets could sign potentially sign in FA. Soooo, basically Harrison is the one, over Skrine at similar money, costing the Jets the most talent.

 

[CrazyCarl40]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

It's not really a black/white either/or situation. You went from who asking who you would rather spend on based on opportunity cost to making the same decision based on talent. In the case of talent, Harrison is not the best Jets DL available in FA and the best player of the three. Soooo, basically Harrison is the one, over Skrine at similar money, costing the Jets the most talent.

 

Try to stay on topic. Paying Buster Skrine nearly 8 million makes it harder for the Jets to sign actually good players like Snacks when they become free agents. That was the point. It has zero to do with your obsession in Wilk. 

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

lTry to stay on topic. Paying Buster Skrine nearly 8 million makes it harder for the Jets to sign actually good players like Snacks when they become free agents. That was the point. It has zero to do with your obsession in Wilk. 

I am staying on topic. You went from who asking who you would rather spend on based on opportunity cost to making the same decision based on talent. In the case of talent (and really value too), Harrison is a lesser move for the Jets outright from Skrine. When you switch the argument to talent, Harrison is not the best Jets DL available in FA and the best player the Jets could potentially sign in FA. That would be Wilkerson. Soooo, basically extending Harrison is the one, over Skrine at similar money, costing the Jets the most talent

The Jets have never paid any NT the kind of money Harrison is being rumored for this year. Skrine isn't stopping the Jets from extending him, they just probably won't value a 50% snap run stuffer like you do.

[Jetdawgg]

9 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Who would you rather have: Skrine for 8 million and NT Deon Simon or NT Snacks and Marcus Williams or McDougal playing the slot? Choice is pretty simple. Overpaying a third corner makes it difficult to pay other, better players. 

I am throughly convinced that your argument is unsustainable.

[CrazyCarl40]

3 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

I am throughly convinced that your argument is unsustainable.

Well that's nice. Why don't you go ahead and dispute it then?

[Jetdawgg]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Well that's nice. Why don't you go ahead and dispute it then?

What is there to dispute? The Jets have signed Skrine and they will continue to do so. End of story.

[CrazyCarl40]

25 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

What is there to dispute? The Jets have signed Skrine and they will continue to do so. End of story.

Ha. Okay. I thought we were having a major league discussion. I forgot there are so many dudes still playing in the minors here. 

[Jetdawgg]

5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Ha. Okay. I thought we were having a major league discussion. I forgot there are so many dudes still playing in the minors here. 

Last call here; your argument does not even rate Pee Wee  League.. The Jets are paying Skrine what he is worth to them. No other Jets CB could supplant him. Time to let this one go.

[CrazyCarl40]

6 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

Last call here; your argument does not even rate Pee Wee  League.. The Jets are paying Skrine what he is worth to them. No other Jets CB could supplant him. Time to let this one go.

The Jets are overpaying a slot corner. Period. His play is replaceable by many. Marcus Williams played better. Darrin Walls played better. McDougle could at least give it a shot and be way cheaper. But, as we saw with Cro, Breno etc, if you make the most money you won't get benched no matter how poorly you perform. 

[Jetdawgg]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets are overpaying a slot corner. Period. His play is replaceable by many. Marcus Williams played better. Darrin Walls played better. McDougle could at least give it a shot and be way cheaper. But, as we saw with Cro, Breno etc, if you make the most money you won't get benched no matter how poorly you perform. 

Do you really read and believe what you post here? This coaching staff and front office made mid season changes due to productivity. The data does not support your claims. You can't own your own set of facts. You can have the last word here. It won't change the factual content on display by the Jets.

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets are overpaying a slot corner. Period. His play is replaceable by many. Marcus Williams played better. Darrin Walls played better. McDougle could at least give it a shot and be way cheaper. But, as we saw with Cro, Breno etc, if you make the most money you won't get benched no matter how poorly you perform. 

The Jets actually aren't overpaying because Skrine is a quality corner. Period. Williams is still under contract and will probably start outside. Walls will walk as a FA to be replaced by whoever survives between McCluster/Milliner. Neither McDougle nor Milliner could be reasonably expected to play 70% of the snaps before the season like Skrine, but one of them probably can replace Darrin Smalls' 11.44% of snaps. As with most opinions, they're not necessarily right no matter how often and how strong you insist on insisting.

[CrazyCarl40]

20 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Do you really read and believe what you post here? This coaching staff and front office made mid season changes due to productivity. The data does not support your claims. You can't own your own set of facts. You can have the last word here. It won't change the factual content on display by the Jets.

You mean they dropped DeMario Davis' snaps for Erin Henderson? Cool. Davis was still on his rookie deal and wasn't just brought in by the new regime like Cro and Buster were. Can you provide an actual example of a player this regime signed and then benched for poor play? I'll wait. 

[CrazyCarl40]

18 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The Jets actually aren't overpaying because Skrine is a quality corner. Period. Williams is still under contract and will probably start outside. Walls will walk as a FA to be replaced by whoever survives between McCluster/Milliner. Neither McDougle nor Milliner could be reasonably expected to play 70% of the snaps before the season like Skrine, but one of them probably can replace Darrin Smalls' 11.44% of snaps. As with most opinions, they're not necessarily right no matter how often and how strong you insist on insisting.

Paying nearly 8 million for a slot corner is overpaying. Period. Slice it any way you like. If he was a quality corner he'd be able to start on the outside and there would have been no need for Cro to come on board at all. 

Also, there is no one on the Jets named McCluster. And you're right. Williams will likely start on the outside, because the 8 million dollar corner Buster Skrine isn't good enough to. Talk with any Browns fan. They were happy to see him go for a reason. He's not good. 

[SenorGato]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Paying nearly 8 million for a slot corner is overpaying. Period. 

It's actually not overpaying for a quality CB on the field ~70% of the time. Period. Slice it anyway you like it.

Like yourself, many Browns fans are mis-informed/under-informed.

[CrazyCarl40]

19 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

It's actually not overpaying for a quality CB on the field ~70% of the time. Period. Slice it anyway you like it.

Like yourself, many Browns fans are mis-informed/under-informed.

I guess your standards of quality are much lower than mine. And many other scouts and scouting services. 

[SenorGato]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

And many other scouts and scouting services. 

Making more things up doesn't help your non-existent argument. The white flag is appreciated.

[Colgateman]

If u expect mcnoodle and dee the glass man millineer to play at least 65% of the snaps, jets are in trouble.

 

[CrazyCarl40]

26 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Making more things up doesn't help your non-existent argument. The white flag is appreciated.

Again, Skrine rated as a bottom corner by PFF the last 3 seasons, as has been pointed out here numerous. This is not made up and ignoring it doesn't make it go away. You obviously have a case of the Mondays, I'll leave you be so you can enjoy the rest of your week in ignorant bliss.

[CrazyCarl40]

13 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

If u expect mcnoodle and dee the glass man millineer to play at least 65% of the snaps, jets are in trouble.

 

At some point you have to see what they're made of. And you couldn't get much worse than the performances of Skrine and Cromartie last year, so what's the harm? If they work out, if not, let them walk after their rookie contracts. Paying Skrine and Cro neatly 16 million combined next season is no way to go through 2016. That'd be a mistake. Cro is cuttable, Skrine isn't. The Jets have to live with that mistake of a contract.

[SenorGato]

46 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Again, Skrine rated as a bottom corner by PFF the last 3 seasons, as has been pointed out here numerous. This is not made up and ignoring it doesn't make it go away. You obviously have a case of the Mondays, I'll leave you be so you can enjoy the rest of your week in ignorant bliss.

Bottom what corner? When did it become last 3 btw? Corners worse than Skrine in 2015 according to PFF...Joe Haden...Antonio Cromatie...Brandon Flowers...Brandon Browner...Also, again - as has been pointed out before - PFF ranks a little over 100 CBs of the ~200+ CBs given playing time in a given season. As was actually linked here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2013

Skrine was top 3 in FO's AdjYds/Pass, and top 40 by success rate and pass distance + YAC at 24. The Jets, despite your claims that Skrine was one of the worst 3rd down CBs in the league and consistently beat, were the third best defense in the league at stopping 3rd down conversions - also linked and being repeated.

Any links to these scouts and scouting services you're saying agree with you? Nope. Links to PFF's past 3 years? Nope, just the one from this year expected to cover all ground for you.

The white flag at the end of your post is appreciated. Bet you don't THO. Bet you come back with some more made up stuff for another troll in the park.

[CrazyCarl40]

Here it is again:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/03/25/free-agency-five-worst-signings/

This one didn’t make sense at the time, but made even less sense after the Jets signed Antonio Cromartie for an even more lucrative deal just days later. Performance aside, they paid Skrine the 15th-most guaranteed money (four-year, $25m, $13m guaranteed) of any cornerback in the league to come in and be the Jets’ nickel corner. That’s bad business from the outset. When you look at Skrine’s past production it gets even worse.

The fifth-year cornerback was the weak link in the Browns’ secondary ever since he was thrust into the nickelback role in 2012. Skrine was promoted to starter in 2013 and turned in overall grades of –12.1 and -6.3 in the two subsequent seasons. He’s simply been a below average player over the course of his career, and even though he has played slot corner, he’s never stood out. His lowest passer rating against from the slot over the past three seasons is 95.5 and that came last year.

There are two other pretty glaring concerns with the deal, the first being Skrine’s limited stature at 5-foot-9 and 185 pounds. Undersized corners around the league tend to have a suppressed market due to many teams being unwilling to sign them. The other issue is Skrine’s egregious penalty problem from a year ago. He committed 17 penalties, the most at the position in the PFF era. There are so many red flags in this deal that it is easily the worst one we’ve seen yet this offseason.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/31/pro-top-10-nfl-secondaries-this-season-2/

New York Jets

Average PFF grade: 64.8

While Darrelle Revis (79.7) has had a pretty significant drop in play, he is still the No.2 cornerback in NFL QB rating allowed in coverage, at 51.2. Marcus Gilchrist has also played well at safety (81.3, No.18 safety). The remaining pieces have left much to be desired, though, in particularly Antonio Cromartie (45.2) and Buster Skrine (43.5).

[SenorGato]

15 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Here it is again:

 His lowest passer rating against from the slot over the past three seasons is 95.5 and that came last year.

So how does that rank compared to other CBs? They make no mention of him being a bottom tier CB once in that like you claim.   Not surprised to see an exaggerated claim loosely based on what actually is being said, but yeah this just means that you make up 99% of what you say on this or seemingly any topic.

[CrazyCarl40]

39 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

So how does that rank compared to other CBs? They make no mention of him being a bottom tier CB once in that like you claim.   Not surprised to see an exaggerated claim loosely based on what actually is being said, but yeah this just means that you make up 99% of what you say on this or seemingly any topic.

Here that is again, because you obviously have retention issues. Of the 114 CBs they ranked (obviously not all of them, but those that played enough snaps to be qualified) he was ranked 92. 114 corners is about 3 1/2 per team. So of all of the teams in the NFL and their top 3/4 corners, Skrine ranked in the bottom quarter of the league. Give him a raise!

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Here that is again, because you obviously have retention issues. Give him a raise!

Guy with retention skillz, Skrine is already under contract. Your dancing is cute and I'm sure you probably believe what you write, but, as usual, your latest attempt to gloss over and twist your nonsense is a bust. 

[Dcat]

PFF metrics are dubious at best.  People who rely on PFF rankings and PFF's enigmatic rating system assume PFF's ranking system has validity.  No one has ever shown how or why PFF's rankings are accurate.  Until such time, PFF's rankings are worth the paper they are printed on and not much more.

[CrazyCarl40]

19 minutes ago, Dcat said:

PFF metrics are dubious at best.  People who rely on PFF rankings and PFF's enigmatic rating system assume PFF's ranking system has validity.  No one has ever shown how or why PFF's rankings are accurate.  Until such time, PFF's rankings are worth the paper they are printed on and not much more.

Cool story. I'm using them because others have to make their cases. Good for the goose, and whatnot. That said, there aren't many other quantifiable solutions out there to help support football arguments other than what we all watch on television. No one here spends hours on end going through the game tapes, so you rely on others to do so. Yes, they have to be taken with a grain of salt, but they're not without some semblance of repute. Other professional organizations use them all the time. Obviously, they aren't the end all, be all but they do provide some basis for thought and evidence.

[CrazyCarl40]

31 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Guy with retention skillz, Skrine is already under contract. Your dancing is cute and I'm sure you probably believe what you write, but, as usual, your latest attempt to gloss over and twist your nonsense is a bust. 

You're not worth my time anymore. Have a good day.