Maxman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 New York Jets Head Coach Todd Bowles, 8.8 On Christian Hackenberg’s practice today… He made some progress and he’s got some things to watch to learn from with the interceptions, but overall we’ll grade the film and going forward he had some good and bad plays. He’s just got to learn from them. On if Josh McCown will be the starting quarterback Saturday… We haven’t discussed it yet. We just had to put out an unofficial depth chart. On if the unofficial depth chart means anything… No. On how much time he spent on the depth chart… None. On if (Senior Director, Media Relations) Bruce Speight put the depth chart together… Yes (laughter). On if (Director, Public Relations) Jared Winley also helped… Yes, they get their time this year to put that stuff out there so I’m happy for them. On Deshon Foxx’s injury… Foxx went down. I don’t know the nature of it yet. I’ll go inside and check it out. On the severity Lorenzo Mauldin’s injury… I’m not sure yet. He’s still day-to-day. The trainer said he’s getting better. We’ll see how he feels tomorrow. On Xavier Coleman’s injury… He’s got a deep bone bruise. On Bilal Powell’s injury… He’s got a neck (injury). When he’s feeling better, he’ll practice. I don’t know how serious it is yet, but he’s getting treatment and we’ll go from there. On the nature of Powell’s injury… I do not know the nature of it right now. On if Powell’s injury occurred when he got the wind knocked out of him… It was part of it. On if he feels the team needs to add a wide receiver due to Quincy Enunwa’s injury… We don’t know what we have yet because they’re all young. We have to get some more plays in and get some preseason games under our belt to see what we have. We don’t know what we have yet so we have a lot of young guys to play with. On if he’s in wait-and-see mode to determine if the team needs to add another wide receiver… Yes. On if the team won’t be adding a receiver this week… I can’t say that for sure. We may if someone becomes available. We may not. On how to balance not overloading the young receivers, but still having them prepared for the game… They get to play obviously. They get the install. They don’t have anybody in front of them to teach them, but we have good coaches and they’ll be ready to play. In the preseason games, we’ll see how much growth they make. On if Robby Anderson is physical enough to handle coverage… He’s fast and he’s tough. I’m not going to say he’s physical enough because he doesn’t weigh that much, but his speed kills and we’ll do things to put him in position to make some plays and we’ll play football. On if Anderson has progressed as a route runner this year… He was a good route runner last year. We just had two guys that played underneath him in Brandon (Marshall) and Quincy with (Eric) Decker being hurt. We had a lot of underneath guys and Robby was the only one (that could) stretch the field so that’s what he did, but he was a good route runner a year ago. On who he likes as the second wide receiver… It’s too early. We haven’t played any games. I’ll let that play itself out. I don’t have any favorites after a week and a half of camp. We haven’t played any preseason games. I’m not determining who the second wideout or the third tackle is or anything like that before we play any games. On if the young receiving corps makes it difficult to get a fair assessment of Hackenberg… On him or the other two quarterbacks as well? On specifically Hackenberg… I can get a read on all of them. The receivers have nothing to do with the quarterbacks. They all have to play. On if it makes it tougher to develop a quarterback with young receivers… No. It’s how they grasp the system and how they run the system. On what’s led to Hackenberg getting more time with the first unit… Nothing. Like I said, it’s the second week of camp. We’re moving guys around and we’re getting them reps with different people. We’ve got Mo (Wilkerson), Leonard (Williams) and Sheldon (Richardson) reps with the second-team d-line. It doesn’t mean anything. We’re just getting guys used to playing with other people so when they get in the game, the timing isn’t as off as it would be. On if younger receivers will make it tough on quarterbacks during the games… No, the quarterbacks just have to play their game. It doesn’t matter whether you’re throwing to a rookie receiver who’s a first pick or a seventh-round pick. You have to get the job done. The receivers have to do their job. The quarterback has to do their job. That’s all that counts. On if young receivers would make it tougher on the offense as a whole… Not really. If the receivers are good, then the offense is no problem. Rookie receivers play every year. We just have to get ours up to speed. On Sheldon Richardson’s comments about Brandon Marshall… My thoughts on it are they know how I feel. We’ve addressed it. I really don’t have time for a bunch of BS that happened a year ago. We had sixth months to talk about it. All that (stuff) is over. He’s been well informed of that, and we’ve moved on from that. On if he’s talked to Richardson since yesterday… We’ve moved on from there. Believe me. We’ve had team discussions, individual discussions and we’ve moved on. On if he means Richardson has been informed… Everybody’s been informed. He’s been informed. Everyone’s been informed. On if everyone has been informed since yesterday… That’s when it happened. I don’t have time for the BS. We’ve moved forward. It’s not my discussion to have. On Steve McLendon gathering the team in the middle of practice… It’s good that they can get themselves out of a hole and get themselves together and pick themselves up. We still want to start faster, but they’re growing up a little bit. On if he’s concerned about Richardson’s maturity… I’m going to repeat this answer one more time. I don’t have time for BS. Can we move on? You’re going to get that answer probably the next 30 times you ask it so we can move on or the interview can be over. Either one is fine with me. On if McLendon gathering the team impacted pace, energy and tempo going forward… Pace and tempo were good. We were just sloppy early on. A certain side of the ball made plays and the other side came back and made some plays, but the fact that they’re working together shows some growth. On if he has done the Oklahoma drill during camp before… We did it last week. We did it once last week. We didn’t do it last year, but we did it last week. On if the rationale for the Oklahoma Drill is because he has talked about hitting more in this camp… It’s a little different side of some of the things that we want those guys to do, so it’s a little part of hitting more. On if he likes seeing the drill as an old-school guy… I don’t feel bad looking at it from the outside, I could tell you that. (joking) On if something like the Oklahoma Drill creates a mentality that he is looking for… I’m trying to create a tough mentality in camp and get used to hitting. Last year, we tried to wait until the preseason game to do hitting, but you have to hit early, you have to play this game the way that you play it every day, so we’re trying to get more contact in there. On what he likes about running backs Jordan Todman, Romar Morris, and Elijah McGuire… They all can run routes very well, but obviously they have to learn the blitz pick-up a lot better than they have, but they’re getting a chance to play with the other two guys down, so we’ll see what the future holds. On if this is in relation to Matt Forte and Powell sitting out for today’s practice… Well, obviously it’s in relation to the two guys who are injured. They wouldn’t be getting as many reps, but it’s good for them to get some reps in while the other guys are down, so they get a chance to show what they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Maxman said: On if Josh McCown will be the starting quarterback Saturday… We haven’t discussed it yet. We just had to put out an unofficial depth chart problem for Bowles is, he has no beef in this organization's long term goal as of right now. He's coaching for his job. He will put McCown in and he will want him to start the season as well and win as many meaningless games as possible, like last year. Mac probably wants to see his guys and get a definitive answer on them. We'll see who prevails. I'm gonna say it'll be McCown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, Maxman said: I can get a read on all of them. The receivers have nothing to do with the quarterbacks. They all have to play. Can we just fire him now? Can Enunwa coach? Maybe it can be like a Disney movie where the injured star motivates the team from the sideline, and then miraculously heals for the SuperBowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 37 minutes ago, j4jets said: problem for Bowles is, he has no beef in this organization's long term goal as of right now. He's coaching for his job. He will put McCown in and he will want him to start the season as well and win as many meaningless games as possible, like last year. Mac probably wants to see his guys and get a definitive answer on them. We'll see who prevails. I'm gonna say it'll be McCown. Starting McCown on Saturday would/will have no effect on Bowles job security. In fact it would just be the norm, veterans tend to take the first preseason game's first reps. Even dudes like Carr and Wilson didn't get those over the vets in front of them. Unless he thinks a younger QB knocked it out of the park the first couple of weeks he was probably always going to give McCown the first series or two in that particular game- and to be honest, that may be just as well for Hack and Petty who will get more reps than he will at the end of the day in ADDITION to a better chance to show off what they have. Yes that's probably against backups, no it doesn't matter. As long as they show they have a grasp of the offense and how its run against live competition it'll bode well for their chances to start the only PS game that's important which is the third one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 hour ago, win4ever said: Can we just fire him now? Can Enunwa coach? Maybe it can be like a Disney movie where the injured star motivates the team from the sideline, and then miraculously heals for the SuperBowl. He's right to an extent. If Hack makes a well timed throw and/or the right decision more often than not the coaches who are privy to the play call will know it regardless what happens after he lets go of the ball. For instance if a WR drops a pass that was otherwise accurate (not behind them, not too far away, etc) does that preclude the coaching staff from being able to judge whether Hack did his job or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfaninNE Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Most will focus on the QB starting or Sheldon questions but for me, this is really concerning in the aftermath of Enunwa's injury Quote On Bilal Powell’s injury… He’s got a neck (injury). When he’s feeling better, he’ll practice. I don’t know how serious it is yet, but he’s getting treatment and we’ll go from there. Man I hope he is OK. **** Neck Injuries freaking career and life killers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 56 minutes ago, Tony MaC said: He's right to an extent. If Hack makes a well timed throw and/or the right decision more often than not the coaches who are privy to the play call will know it regardless what happens after he lets go of the ball. For instance if a WR drops a pass that was otherwise accurate (not behind them, not too far away, etc) does that preclude the coaching staff from being able to judge whether Hack did his job or not? It's more to do with decision making and timing, so if a young receiver has an extra step on his route, then the timing is thrown off, and the angles may be thrown off as well. We see this often around draft time where a receiver makes a "rounded" cut instead of a linear cut, and this disrupts the timing and position of the throw. Second, if a bad receiver can't gain separation from a defensive player, then the QB is forced to hold onto the ball to go through the progressions. Since all of the receivers are inexperienced, there is a decent chance that all of them may have trouble with either the route or gaining separation. We saw this being an issue when we had a hobbled Holmes and David Nelson running out there alongside Hill. I believe the Steelers even admitted that they knew the receivers couldn't beat their guys one on one, and altered their defense to be more aggressive (the desired counteraction to a QB that is forced to hold onto the ball). Therefore, you will see more coverage sacks than usual, which may reflect poorly on the QB. The QB might be making a good read by not throwing it into coverage, but the lack of separation or timing with young receivers may lead to sacks, which reflects bad on the QB and offensive line, both of which have been widely reported this training camp. If this was just a drill without defense, then it's easier to determine play for a young QB. However, a bad receiver absolutely has an effect on a QB, even if it's through no fault of the quarterback. Say an inexperienced receiver is tipping off his routes, this allows the defensive player to jump the route, without the normal reactionary time necessitated for such a play. And QBs are taught to throw the ball before a player becomes "open" and thus prior to their final break, which means the QB is factoring in the defensive player not reading the route without the assumed time difference in reacting. It'll lead to more interceptions and incomplete passes, even if the QB made the right read and throw, because the receiver tipped off his routes. Now coaches can coach the receivers to run precise routes, but that takes time to get into muscle memory. So for someone like Bowles to say that the receivers have no such impact on evaluating the QB is taking a substantially limited view of the processes a QB has to go through to be successful. It lends further notice to the fact that he's just not equipped to develop a QB, especially with a precise offensive system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, win4ever said: It's more to do with decision making and timing, so if a young receiver has an extra step on his route, then the timing is thrown off, and the angles may be thrown off as well. We see this often around draft time where a receiver makes a "rounded" cut instead of a linear cut, and this disrupts the timing and position of the throw. Second, if a bad receiver can't gain separation from a defensive player, then the QB is forced to hold onto the ball to go through the progressions. Since all of the receivers are inexperienced, there is a decent chance that all of them may have trouble with either the route or gaining separation. We saw this being an issue when we had a hobbled Holmes and David Nelson running out there alongside Hill. I believe the Steelers even admitted that they knew the receivers couldn't beat their guys one on one, and altered their defense to be more aggressive (the desired counteraction to a QB that is forced to hold onto the ball). Therefore, you will see more coverage sacks than usual, which may reflect poorly on the QB. The QB might be making a good read by not throwing it into coverage, but the lack of separation or timing with young receivers may lead to sacks, which reflects bad on the QB and offensive line, both of which have been widely reported this training camp. If this was just a drill without defense, then it's easier to determine play for a young QB. However, a bad receiver absolutely has an effect on a QB, even if it's through no fault of the quarterback. Say an inexperienced receiver is tipping off his routes, this allows the defensive player to jump the route, without the normal reactionary time necessitated for such a play. And QBs are taught to throw the ball before a player becomes "open" and thus prior to their final break, which means the QB is factoring in the defensive player not reading the route without the assumed time difference in reacting. It'll lead to more interceptions and incomplete passes, even if the QB made the right read and throw, because the receiver tipped off his routes. Now coaches can coach the receivers to run precise routes, but that takes time to get into muscle memory. So for someone like Bowles to say that the receivers have no such impact on evaluating the QB is taking a substantially limited view of the processes a QB has to go through to be successful. It lends further notice to the fact that he's just not equipped to develop a QB, especially with a precise offensive system. You know what, that was a really good retort. Those are definitely nuances that can impact a QB's play during a game, and I see your point up to a point. But even if these happened to Hack, if his receivers are tipping off their routes, if they cant gain separation, or if their timing is off, wouldn't the coaches be able to recognize their effects and take them into account when evaluating him? Especially in this part of the process. This wasn't specified before but lets focus on the coaching staff's ability to judge QB's during this particular training camp. Every WR on this roster is green as hell and all the QB's have to deal with them more or less equally. Because of that it wouldn't be much of an issue to evaluate all three and determine who should be the starter despite this mass inexperience. Their handicaps (in this case inexperienced WR's) are all the same so its more or less a moot point if these things are happening more often than on most teams. Its an internal evaluation about who runs this offense, and all of its warts, the best with perhaps some considerations made for upside and inexperience of Hack and Petty. Now, where your point will hold firmer is when it comes time to evaluate Hack after a season, because then they have to compare him to other young QB's who don't have this team's "handicaps" and receiver mistakes will matter more when trying to make a call on whether he should still be the man in 2018. That much I'll concede. In context, I think Bowles was being asked about whether or not he can evaluate the QB's in this competition right now in spite of the WR problems the Jets are having and I still think he's not wrong for saying yes and that they can evaluate the positions separately- for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tony MaC said: You know what, that was a really good retort. Those are definitely nuances that can impact a QB's play during a game, and I see your point up to a point. But even if these happened to Hack, if his receivers are tipping off their routes, if they cant gain separation, or if their timing is off, wouldn't the coaches be able to recognize their effects and take them into account when evaluating him? Especially in this part of the process. This wasn't specified before but lets focus on the coaching staff's ability to judge QB's during this particular training camp. Every WR on this roster is green as hell and all the QB's have to deal with them more or less equally. Because of that it wouldn't be much of an issue to evaluate all three and determine who should be the starter despite this mass inexperience. Their handicaps (in this case inexperienced WR's) are all the same so its more or less a moot point if these things are happening more often than on most teams. Its an internal evaluation about who runs this offense, and all of its warts, the best with perhaps some considerations made for upside and inexperience of Hack and Petty. Now, where your point will hold firmer is when it comes time to evaluate Hack after a season, because then they have to compare him to other young QB's who don't have this team's "handicaps" and receiver mistakes will matter more when trying to make a call on whether he should still be the man in 2018. That much I'll concede. In context, I think Bowles was being asked about whether or not he can evaluate the QB's in this competition right now in spite of the WR problems the Jets are having and I still think he's not wrong for saying yes and that they can evaluate the positions separately- for now. Thanks. It's a really interesting concept, and I'm not really disagreeing with you because it's a limited impact, so the coaches should still be able to evaluate Hack. I agree completely, the coaches should factor in the issues with the receivers when trying to figure out how Hackenberg is doing because that's exactly what I want them to be doing. My problem was Bowles saying the receivers don't matter in evaluation, thus taking mistakes committed by them out of the equation. I think the litmus test would work based on comparison if any of them were actually good, but they are either horrible or unproven so there is no standard to compare them to. Is McCown struggling more or less because of receivers or because he sucks? Is Hack or Petty struggling more because of receivers or lack of experience? If we had someone to set the standard (like a good QB- although at that point, this has less impact because we are just competing to find the backup QB) then we could analyse the deviation from the standard. It also then brings in other factors are well, pertaining to experience. Does McCown, who has much more experience recognize coverage or play concepts better than the two youngsters learning it? Not that it matters as much, because the entire team is essentially green, but does McCown get an advantage playing with the first team more? By definition, the first team should be at least somewhat better than the second team and so forth, so does having those guys factor into the decisions? Or is it negated by Hack or Petty facing the second team/third team? It wouldn't be a linear breakdown, so is our second team defense proportionately equal in talent ratio to the second team offense, as the same rate that the first team defense is equal to the first team offense? Are there more risks taken by second team players because they need to flash to move up the depth chart during practice, so how does that factor in? I like to think that every single guy on offense has a major impact on every play (although the RB can be exempt on some). If a RT is letting the defense run right through him, then it shortens up the time for the QB to go through progressions, possibly step into throws thus throwing off mechanics, or get sacked. Same for any offensive lineman, so we would have to factor that in when trying to see how the offense is doing. So if the offense has trouble with the offensive line, then teams tend to move towards a quick strike offense that's based on limiting the impact of a subpar offensive line. It's a reason why many non top tier college teams go to the spread system with no huddle, quick hit RPO based offenses. The defense just doesn't have enough time to take advantage of the subpar offensive line. If Bowles just said, we factor in everything or we analyze as much as possible and every component of the offense, then it was fine. The dismissal of the receivers being a factor is what gets me because it's almost like he doesn't recognize how the individual parts have to work together to bring a good result. I kinda saw some similar issues on defense last year, where the team wasn't really on the same page, especially with Revis. The whole defense would be in press man cover, and Revis would peel off about 7 yards before the snap like he was playing zone, without any help underneath. And Bowles never seemed to correct it, even though it was obvious. I think we'll start to see how things are going during the pre-season, although the first pre-season game might be ugly. I think the second one is the big one for all the QBs and receivers. Part of it is that the guys we picked have certain limitations as well. Hansen runs a very limited route tree, so any route that is apart from the ones he ran in college are going to be very foreign for him. Stewart played on a run dominant team, opposite a dynamic receiver, which took away attention, so how does he set up the defense when it may not be one on one match ups? Marks had a decorated career but he has physical limitations, so how does he create separation? While I'm not all that particularly excited about the season (unless one of the young QBs steps up this pre-season), I'm very excited about the pre-season because there is so much to evaluate on offense and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 when the giants were developing eli, they made sure to have pieces around him to make it easier for him. they used tiki as his safety outlet, they had shockey (before they had to get rid of him), and they brought in plaxico. the giants knew eli was a talented, strong armed but erratic passer, so they brought in a big wr (like marshall - he would have helped hack) and a reliable rb to catch screens. eli's completion percentage for his career is 60% and many years it was below this. but the giants understood what pieces to put around him. the jets need to follow this model with hack, who reminds me of eli, a prototypical pocket passer whose completion percentage was never that good but throws a better long ball. the jets have 3 rbs who can catch, that's good. they have 2 TEs who can catch. they don't have the big possession wr, marshall is gone. i really hope hackenberg plays well in the preseason games, b/c that will make it even tougher for bowles to justify starting mccown when the rest of the team is young and the whiny veterans aren't there to throw a hissy fit about it. at some point, bowles needs to realize that if either petty or hack looks decent for a stretch of games that saves his job - not if his defense looks decent with all those first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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