BwanaZulia Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 You lose all credibility when you say "It doesn't matter how much money you spend.." Sorry Dude, that is how we got into the position we are in. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 i don't know where you heard that. The true story is that the Jets set up a videotape console in the interview room and when Cutler walked in the lights were off and they got right down to breaking tape. Mangini et al. showed him tape of himself and they broke it down together. Cutler's flaws aren't intellectual they are emotional. At times on film he clearly got completely pissed at the low level of talent surrounding him and he didn't trust his Vandy teammates or "lift them up" as much as say a guy like Chad Pennington might have. some would say he's got a bad attitude, others would say he takes no s--t. All i know is the Jets need some of that in the locker room, and they definately need a guy who can throw 25 yard outs and 45 yard go's without flinching. Well I will try to find the source but I heard Cutler had a hard time with the project. Also, Jeff George was very similar to Cutler attitude wise. Doesn't mean much - just pointing that out. If you wanted to you could switch Jeff George's scouting report with Cutler's and you would not know the difference with perhaps the exception that Cutler is slightly more mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 You lose all credibility when you say "It doesn't matter how much money you spend.." Sorry Dude, that is how we got into the position we are in. i don't know who you are talking to but they didn't spend money poorly they just didn't get lucky with the return - Chad could have come back and been great. Remember before the first game of the season Trent Green torn an artery in his leg, played with a stint in and he was just fine. Football teams put high risk players in high risk positions and hope the bet pays off the Jets just haven't been getting any luck with the QB. Even if Chad comes back they have the cap room now to pull a SD, draft a 2nd starter caliber QB and groom him for the future. Chad is after all nearly 30 and his arm is attached by dental floss at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 You lose all credibility when you say "It doesn't matter how much money you spend.." Sorry Dude, that is how we got into the position we are in. BZ What's going on here that I'm agreeing with post after post from BZ??? Spend the money, but spend it wisely. No more mega-contracts for "He could be lights-out" players (Chad, Ellis, DRob, etc) who require greatness all around them to be such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 What's going on here that I'm agreeing with post after post from BZ??? Spend the money, but spend it wisely. No more mega-contracts for "He could be lights-out" players (Chad, Ellis, DRob, etc) who require greatness all around them to be such. FEEL.................. WORLD............................ ENDING................................ If the past 4 Super Bowl teams have proven anything it is you can win with a bunch of players. You don't need super stars, head cases or million dollar arms. You need hard working players, a good scheme and depth at every position. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Well I will try to find the source but I heard Cutler had a hard time with the project. Also, Jeff George was very similar to Cutler attitude wise. Doesn't mean much - just pointing that out. If you wanted to you could switch Jeff George's scouting report with Cutler's and you would not know the difference with perhaps the exception that Cutler is slightly more mobile. yes that's the contra case. Hey I admit he's not a low risk pick. but there have been others that have said Jay Cutler might not only be the best QB in the draft he might be the best QB the league has seen for over a decade. An anonymous NFL coach called him an "absolute bonafide motherf--ker" and he's like "Clark Kent stepping out of the booth". http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11803548/page/2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 i don't know who you are talking to but they didn't spend money poorly they just didn't get lucky with the return - Chad could have come back and been great. Remember before the first game of the season Trent Green torn an artery in his leg, played with a stint in and he was just fine. Football teams put high risk players in high risk positions and hope the bet pays off the Jets just haven't been getting any luck with the QB. Even if Chad comes back they have the cap room now to pull a SD, draft a 2nd starter caliber QB and groom him for the future. Chad is after all nearly 30 and his arm is attached by dental floss at this point. I just don't think that is a need for the 2006 season. There is enough there between Chad, Patrick and Brooks to get the job done. Pulling a rookie, for big money to sit in pine is just not worth it at this point. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 They need a new franchise caliber QB in the worst way. That man is Jay Cutler. bit, Cutler would be a 50/50 proposition on becoming the "franchise" QB Jet fans think he will become. Do you really want to roll the dice with the #4 pick on those odds? D'Brick and Mario will be sitting right there and I'm sure you'll agree with me that either of those guys has a much better chance than 50/50 of becoming dominate players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 yes that's the contra case. Hey I admit he's not a low risk pick. but there have been others that have said Jay Cutler might not only be the best QB in the draft he might be the best QB the league has seen for over a decade. An anonymous NFL coach called him an "absolute bonafide motherf--ker" and he's like "Clark Kent stepping out of the booth". http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11803548/page/2/ Yeah he has amazing tools. It's just his stats, smarts, and attitude that kinda scare me. I realize he was not surrounded by good talent but neither was Glenn Foley, and others who put up better college numbers. I will trust in whatever Mangini does. He has been around enough good players to know which one to pick or not to pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I like the Jets taking a guy like Paul Pinegar, Fresno State late in the draft (6th or 7th round) have him compete with Bollinger, and Kingsbury. He was coached by non other than Pat Hill, also had no talent around him. But put up decent numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Anyone remember the Heisman winning QB we Drafted from Notre Dame?? Actually that year we drafted QB's with our 1st and 2nd picks! The Heisman winner never made it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Anyone remember the Heisman winning QB we Drafted from Notre Dame?? Actually that year we drafted QB's with our 1st and 2nd picks! The Heisman winner never made it.. Yea, but Savage, I'm sure Cutler will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Unless the Jets really are putting faith in Ramsey or Pennington to be the longterm answers at QB, they will draft a QB at 4. That guy might be Cutler, who knows. But there is something about Cutler - good or bad I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensince69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Slick Rick. Goes down with Ryan Leaf and browning nagel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Yea, but Savage, I'm sure Cutler will. Are you sure?? I know Bit is a Pro at picking DT's but QB's are a much harder task! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Are you sure?? I know Bit is a Pro at picking DT's but QB's are a much harder task! Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnys025 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Ask the Lions how they feel right now about spending a ton of money on a "franchise" QB. Exactly, I already started a post a while back about taking a top 5 qb in the first round. Elway was the last top 5 qb who was drafted in 83 to win a superbowl. Now, you just need a stout defense and a role playing QB to win one. A steller defense and a running back who can carry the load 30 carries per game is the formula for success in today's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Now, you just need a stout defense and a role playing QB to win one. A steller defense and a running back who can carry the load 30 carries per game is the formula for success in today's NFL. vinny, it's not exactly rocket science out there. You nailed the winning formula. However, the "role playing" QB needs to have the ability to also make big plays in crucial situations. No better example than Ben Rothlisberger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amuck57 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 build are o-line, AND FIND A WAY TO GET SCHAUB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnys025 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 vinny, it's not exactly rocket science out there. You nailed the winning formula. However, the "role playing" QB needs to have the ability to also make big plays in crucial situations. No better example than Ben Rothlisberger. Right, but you have everyone on here pleading their case for Lionheart, Young, or Cutler. I'm trying to get back to the basics to get our "draft a franchise qb" posters to come back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 vinny, it's not exactly rocket science out there. You nailed the winning formula. However, the "role playing" QB needs to have the ability to also make big plays in crucial situations. No better example than Ben Rothlisberger. I rather have a good 2 back running attack..But that's just me! I guess you can't build stats sharing carries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinGreenNC Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 wow half of the people on this site obviously have never been to a JET game and seen penningpuss and his noodle arm........and as for ramsey if a hall of fame coach like gibbs didnt see anything in him then i find it hard to believe that we can salvage his career. WE NEED A NEW FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK it doesnt matter how much money u spend.....if your gunna fix things then fix them the right way not a half ass job we have two first round picks and if the jets cant find a way to get a new qb that will b here for years to come then that says a lot about the new front office! Dude, whats the sense of drafting a, "Franchise Quarterback" what you call it, if we do not have the O-line to protect him? No QB can throw from his back. And don't tell me that we should draft Young because of his scambling abilities, he would be facing faster smarter players in the pro's, not to mention the fact that we do not run the option in our offense. As far as Leinart goes, he is a good QB, but i think that he was a product of a particular system and that he will be an average QB at best. And Cutler, i think he is getting too much hype right now, and that he doesnt have the mental capacity to understand and read defenses. If i had to pick out of the 3, it would be Leinart. My choice would be Mario From NC State, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Dude, whats the sense of drafting a, "Franchise Quarterback" what you call it, if we do not have the O-line to protect him? The Texans tried to do that. How has that turned out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinGreenNC Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 The Texans tried to do that. How has that turned out? Obviously the guy that started this thread doesnt see or understand this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 The Texans tried to do that. How has that turned out? Tex have you ever tried to explain that a QB becomes a Franchise player when he has "EARNED" the title?? Going by that Term Ryan Leaf and Rick Mirer were Franchise QB's and Brady is not! Not to mention DFat and Byron Thomas are Franchise players and Joe Klecko isn't!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Tex have you ever tried to explain that a QB becomes a Franchise player when he has "EARNED" the title?? Going by that Term Ryan Leaf and Rick Mirer were Franchise QB's and Brady is not! Not to mention DFat and Byron Thomas are Franchise players and Joe Klecko isn't!! Savage, the word "franchise player" is a relative term. Most football fans can understand the meaning. Unfortunately, delusional Jet fans (not all Jet fans) see it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 You can draft a QB at 4 and use your next 2 or 3 picks on offensive lineman. Not saying I agree with drafting Cutler, but to dismiss it just by saying "We have no Oline" is stupid. We can build an Oline with our other draft picks - yea we have other draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Exactly, I already started a post a while back about taking a top 5 qb in the first round. Elway was the last top 5 qb who was drafted in 83 to win a superbowl. Now, you just need a stout defense and a role playing QB to win one. A steller defense and a running back who can carry the load 30 carries per game is the formula for success in today's NFL. Disagree on the 30-carry RB. All of these guys averaged under 18 carries on superbowl winners: Antowain Smith/Kevin Faulk with the Pats (2001, 2003) Pittman/Alstott with Tampa (2002) Parker/Bettis with Pittsburgh (2005) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Disagree on the 30-carry RB. All of these guys averaged under 18 carries on superbowl winners: Antowain Smith/Kevin Faulk with the Pats (2001, 2003) Pittman/Alstott with Tampa (2002) Parker/Bettis with Pittsburgh (2005) And for 4 years we could have Had a StatMonkey/Jordon combo! Whoops then it wouldn't have been StatMonkey ,it would have been Martin/Jordan! Not a Bad combo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Chad Pennigton might never be a starter again. Patrick Ramsey was given the kiss of death by Joe Gibbs. Brooks Bollinger is beyond words horrible. arguably there is no team in the NFL that needs franchise QB more than the NYJ. Maybe Minny, which is why they are trying to trade up for our spot. We can't say don't draft a QB because it is so risky. Nothing would be more risky than NOT drafting a QB. It doesn't have to be Cutler high it could be Croyle, Jacobs, Clemens, I. Martin, Gradkowski, Pinegar, Josh Betts, jeff Mroz hey i don't care who they want - whoever it is, make not mistake this team needs young healthy arms via the draft. as for Tex and Savage what do you guys have ideas as for how the Jets can get competative? No what's that? you don't actually come up with anything constructive ever you only dispense wise cracks and insults? Thought so. Savage is just pissed he is going to owe me a bottle of booze. If Martin didn't get cut in this purge he never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Chad Pennigton might never be a starter again. Patrick Ramsey was given the kiss of death by Joe Gibbs. Brooks Bollinger is beyond words horrible. arguably there is no team in the NFL that needs franchise QB more than the NYJ. Maybe Minny, which is why they are trying to trade up for our spot. We can't say don't draft a QB because it is so risky. Nothing would be more risky than NOT drafting a QB. It doesn't have to be Cutler high it could be Croyle, Jacobs, Clemens, I. Martin, Gradkowski, Pinegar, Josh Betts, jeff Mroz hey i don't care who they want - whoever it is, make not mistake this team needs young healthy arms via the draft. as for Tex and Savage what do you guys have ideas as for how the Jets can get competative? No what's that? you don't actually come up with anything constructive ever you only dispense wise cracks and insults? Thought so. Savage is just pissed he is going to owe me a bottle of booze. If Martin didn't get cut in this purge he never will. Ok Bit lets up the Bet to a Grand?? Or are you All Talk? I have confidence in this new Regime! You Guys spit out scenarios like it's Fantasy Football! The difference is pure speculation and jumping to conclusions has never been my cup of Tea! I love the way we are progressing and will wait till at least the first preseason Game to judge how they have done! I don't profess to be a Pro Draft picker like some of you and what we need is obvious! Still miss your boy Hermie do ya!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 as for Tex and Savage what do you guys have ideas as for how the Jets can get competative? I've been consistent all along. Use the #4 pick on D'Brick or Mario Williams. Deal a 2nd rounder to the Falcons for Schaub. Continue to build the OLine with picks 2-5 rounds. Drafting a QB at #4 would be the biggest blunder the Jets could make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Chad Pennigton might never be a starter again. Patrick Ramsey was given the kiss of death by Joe Gibbs. Brooks Bollinger is beyond words horrible. arguably there is no team in the NFL that needs franchise QB more than the NYJ. Maybe Minny, which is why they are trying to trade up for our spot. We can't say don't draft a QB because it is so risky. Nothing would be more risky than NOT drafting a QB. It doesn't have to be Cutler high it could be Croyle, Jacobs, Clemens, I. Martin, Gradkowski, Pinegar, Josh Betts, jeff Mroz hey i don't care who they want - whoever it is, make not mistake this team needs young healthy arms via the draft. as for Tex and Savage what do you guys have ideas as for how the Jets can get competative? No what's that? you don't actually come up with anything constructive ever you only dispense wise cracks and insults? Thought so. Savage is just pissed he is going to owe me a bottle of booze. If Martin didn't get cut in this purge he never will. I agree Bit, I will trust in what this regime does. There are players I like more than others but if they call Cutler's name come draft day I will be excited because it means the new regime has tested him and his background and believes he will be a good choice for the franchise. I also agree that it does not reall matter when the Jets draft a QB so long as they draft one in this draft. Cimini said Bollinger will be moved at some point and I beleive that to be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I've been consistent all along. Use the #4 pick on D'Brick or Mario Williams. Deal a 2nd rounder to the Falcons for Schaub. Continue to build the OLine with picks 2-5 rounds. Drafting a QB at #4 would be the biggest blunder the Jets could make. Dam Tex how come Draft Daddy hasn't invited you to join their Crack Staff?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Chad Pennigton might never be a starter again. Patrick Ramsey was given the kiss of death by Joe Gibbs. Brooks Bollinger is beyond words horrible. arguably there is no team in the NFL that needs franchise QB more than the NYJ. Maybe Minny, which is why they are trying to trade up for our spot. We can't say don't draft a QB because it is so risky. Nothing would be more risky than NOT drafting a QB. It doesn't have to be Cutler high it could be Croyle, Jacobs, Clemens, I. Martin, Gradkowski, Pinegar, Josh Betts, jeff Mroz hey i don't care who they want - whoever it is, make not mistake this team needs young healthy arms via the draft. as for Tex and Savage what do you guys have ideas as for how the Jets can get competative? No what's that? you don't actually come up with anything constructive ever you only dispense wise cracks and insults? Thought so. Savage is just pissed he is going to owe me a bottle of booze. If Martin didn't get cut in this purge he never will. This I could agree with. It's just the people who are hell-bent on only taking a QB at #4 (or the ultimate in stupidity, using our #4, #29, and high 3rd for a sure-shot a Leinart). Croyle/Whitehurst in the 3rd (or Croyle in the mid-2nd if we do the Minn trade), I.Martin with our late 4th or a comp 4th, or even our high 5th. Gradowski, Pinegar, or one of the others. Fine with me. If Ramsey (somehow) works out as a late bloomer like Brees & others, or if Pennington can actually throw a football again, then we didn't piss away the big pick & a $20-25M SB on a mega-expensive QB that we don't need (like Rivers) & may not even be NFL-caliber. Not to mention, there will always be experienced veterans for hire next year (like BJohnson, Gannon, Grbac, T.Green, Brees, etc.) & who knows what player might be available next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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