My take on Joe Douglas, and his future with the Jets.

[JKlecko]

7 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Unpopular take: calling Shula a great coach is like calling Orville Wright a fighter pilot.

I detested Shula for a number of reasons, chief among them watering down the field for the playoffs back in the '80s (or was it '90s?), but he was a great coach.

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:41 PM, peebag said:

The bar for the Jets GM role has been set so low that any modicum of success will seem gigantic.

Bottom line is thar the team needs extended success and that means multiple winning seasons.

So far Joe hasn't made a go of it.

JD has had zero success yet he’s considered a “good” GM

 

Mangini gets worshipped here and at least he had one 10-6 season 

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 8/30/2024 at 5:56 PM, Barton said:

Becton barely passed block in college.

Huh?

[Larz]

What if……they win a bunch of games and it’s fun ?

[doitny]

43 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

I envy your meeting Joe Klecko.  After Namath, he was my favorite Jet as well.

With regards to Wilson, yes he wants to win, but he also wants to be great and to get paid.  If the Jets had added Nabers, Wilson's opportunities could have been cut by 30-40%.  He's had to suffer with crap QBs the last two years and finally gets a chance to put up big numbers with Rodgers this year.  He's also very competitive. I know it would frustrate and probably piss me off, if I had had to play with crap QBs the first two seasons of my career, and didn't have nearly as great numbers as I could have.  Then I finally get the chance to rack up big numbers with a future HOF QB, and they draft another #1 WR that's going to take opportunities away from me, and maybe money out of my pocket?  I don't think Wilson was bothered by adding Corley, and wouldn't have been bothered by adding a WR in the 2nd round if the Jets had a 2nd round pick, but taking another WR in the top 10, that's an entirely different matter. But even if I'm wrong and it wouldn't have bothered Wilson, the rest would have been bad enough, and the Jets don't need him to make any more dumb decisions like that.

i agree with this but there is a flip side to this. what if GW wants too much money? 

we see how crazy the WR salaries are. i know most people here think there playing Madden and will say we must sign him no matter what, but thats not real life. he could just want too much money. drafting a Nabers would have given us some leverage. then if he wants too much money we could let him go.

i have been a fan of the idea that after Rodgers we should get the best FA QB around. i think this team is too good to chance drafting a QB and putting all our hopes on him. but what if we do go the drafting a 1st rd QB again? i dont think GW would want to resign here. as you said he wasted already 2 years of his career on bad QB play im sure he doesnt want to waste more. i can see him leaving and going with a team with an established NFL QB. in that case having a Nabers would have been good.

this is all a mute point since we never had a chance to draft Nabers or Oduze but what i said above is a real concern for me. i could very well see us drafting Joe Nobody in rd 1 and GW leaving not wanting to play with a rookie QB again.

[JKlecko]

32 minutes ago, doitny said:

i agree with this but there is a flip side to this. what if GW wants too much money? 

we see how crazy the WR salaries are. i know most people here think there playing Madden and will say we must sign him no matter what, but thats not real life. he could just want too much money. drafting a Nabers would have given us some leverage. then if he wants too much money we could let him go.

i have been a fan of the idea that after Rodgers we should get the best FA QB around. i think this team is too good to chance drafting a QB and putting all our hopes on him. but what if we do go the drafting a 1st rd QB again? i dont think GW would want to resign here. as you said he wasted already 2 years of his career on bad QB play im sure he doesnt want to waste more. i can see him leaving and going with a team with an established NFL QB. in that case having a Nabers would have been good.

this is all a mute point since we never had a chance to draft Nabers or Oduze but what i said above is a real concern for me. i could very well see us drafting Joe Nobody in rd 1 and GW leaving not wanting to play with a rookie QB again.

IMO that's not the way to treat home-grown players.  That indeed is how you alienate players and get them where they don't want to play for the Jets.  Wilson deserves every penny he asks for. He has thrived in spite of lousy QB play, kept working hard to improve himself, and hasn't complained.  He is the type that should be kept and paid.  The very LAST thing the Jets need to do now that they're starting to establish some credibility, is to show their own and other players in the NFL that they are cheap and not going to pay their own players who do well.  That might be a way to deal with greedy mercenaries like Reddick, but not our home-grown players.  Wilson is not the type imo to be greedy.  He wants to win, and he knows that the team can't pay too many huge salaries or they'll be forced to let players go and then they won't be as good.

I agree that probably the best thing to do is for the Jets to trade for a veteran QB or if good one should become available in FA, sign him. Unless there are major changes to the offensive staff, there is no one on the CS that can develop a young QB.  We are in total agreement there.

I don't think that Wilson would necessarily want to leave unless the Jets drafted a Zach clone and had no veteran QB on board.

[Claymation]

A great job Jeff Ulbrich and the Jets staff on finding these 2 gems.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

On 8/29/2024 at 7:19 PM, Alka said:

Joe Douglas was a rookie General Manager when he came onto the Jets, and as a rookie, made many mistakes.  He learned on the job, and if you look at his overall record, you might say he is no better than average.  In fact, if you look at his overall record, you might even say he is a below average general manager.

My biggest problem with Douglas is that he keeps making bonehead moves and he is no longer a rookie. He did them most recently with Huff and with Reddick. How many years did it take him to put together a decent oline? Him...the oline expert. Let's also not forget his involvement in the non-moves for QB after the Rodgers injury.  I keep hearing from the Jets content creators that if we would've had decent QB play last year, the Jets would've made the playoffs. All angles on that take point to Douglas. The Rodgers trade and everything that has come out of that stems directly from Douglas worst decision, a decision so awful that in any other team it would've cost him his job.

So, curb your enthusiasm.

I do agree that Saleh should be gone if this team falls, but Douglas, is not blameless beyond his rookie year.

[Alka]

58 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

My biggest problem with Douglas is that he keeps making bonehead moves and he is no longer a rookie. He did them most recently with Huff and with Reddick. How many years did it take him to put together a decent oline? Him...the oline expert. Let's also not forget his involvement in the non-moves for QB after the Rodgers injury.  I keep hearing from the Jets content creators that if we would've had decent QB play last year, the Jets would've made the playoffs. All angles on that take point to Douglas. The Rodgers trade and everything that has come out of that stems directly from Douglas worst decision, a decision so awful that in any other team it would've cost him his job.

So, curb your enthusiasm.

I do agree that Saleh should be gone if this team falls, but Douglas, is not blameless beyond his rookie year.

You have laid out an excellent argument for JD's failures, and I can not dispute them.

However, the gist of my thread was that moving forward, I believe that despite all of his past failures, He is now a seasoned GM who has made great decisions in the recent past, and to jettison him now, would be to judge him on his past, and not his future.

You certainly can judge him by his past failures if you would like, but I will judge him by his past successes, and his most recent successes.

Past Successes:

1. Trade of Jamal Adams-  Perhaps the best trade in the NY Jets history.

2.  Getting control of the CAP

3. The draft of 2021.  Perhaps one of the best 2 or 3 best drafts in NYJ history.

4.  Scouting and acquiring a Pro-bowl player in Quincy Williams, who is one of the best players on the Jets defense.  

Recent Successes:

1. The team that JD has put together for this upcoming season is the high point in JD's career.  More than several NFL pundits have claimed that this is perhaps the best roster in the entire NFL.

2. Most recently, scouting and bring in several undrafted free agents that have made our 53 man roster this year, not to mention X Gibson, who is a very good player who also was a Undrafted free agent from last season.

3. I like how he is not chaining the team to long term contracts on older players, and looking to give multi year contracts to proven young veterans, like Quinnen Williams, Quincy Williams, Michael Carter II.  

He finally got the offensive line right, and has multiple years left on our newly acquired left guard, our center, and now our future left tackle that we just drafted.  I love the drafting of the QB we got in the fourth round this year, and believe that JD will never again make the mistake he made with a overrated player at QB like Zach Wilson.

To sum it all up, you can view the glass as half empty or half full.  I guess I am a half full sort of person, and believe that JD's best days are ahead of him.  Get rid of him after this season, and we will just have to start over with another untried, untested rookie GM, who we will have to deal with his mistakes and disasters.

 

 

[Ecuadorian Jet]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

To sum it all up, you can view the glass as half empty or half full.  I guess I am a half full sort of person, and believe that JD's best days are ahead of him.  

If I were not an optimist, I would not be an Ecuadorian that out all the teams in the NFL, chose the Jets to be my team. All Jets fans are optimists, some are sarcastic, and some have a dark humor about it. But make no mistake, there is no sports fan in the world more optimist than a Jets fan.

😉 

[Alka]

57 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

If I were not an optimist, I would not be an Ecuadorian that out all the teams in the NFL, chose the Jets to be my team. All Jets fans are optimists, some are sarcastic, and some have a dark humor about it. But make no mistake, there is no sports fan in the world more optimist than a Jets fan.

😉

It's hard to argue with your logic. LOL  

I am a life long Jets fan.  Not because I am an optimist, but because when I was 9 years old, I was drawn to Joe Namath and the team that was located close to where I live. Once I became a fan, there was no going back.  I do not flip-flop on my loyalty.  I am not a quitter.  

My family had season tickets to the Jets, and I watched the Jets go and win the superbowl.  Little did I know that things would be rocky for the next 50 plus years.

My love for the Jets make me emotionally attached to the Jets, and my heart always tries to look on the bright side of whatever is going on with the Jets. 

But, I also try to be a realist.  I call things out when I see them, and I have called for the firing of countless head coaches and several GM's. 

I see things differently with Joe Douglas, and hope that Woody Johnson sees things the way I do.

[varjet]

My views on JD are pretty simple:

• He has made a lot of good looking personnel moves.
• He has made some colossally bad ones.  
• He has brought the team from picking top 2 to top 15.  Progress.  
• He needs to put a team on the field that contends for a playoff spot.  It looks like he will finally get there.
• In the grand scheme of things he is one of the Jets better GMS (or at least he looks competent).   No matter what you think negative about JD, in a normal process the odds of the Jets replacing JD and Saleh with someone who ends up better is low.  
• So if I am Woody I am sticking with the current regime, signing them for reasonable extensions, seeing if continuity can help the overall process and pushing them in internal meetings to perform.
• But if someone like Jim Harbaugh shows up again and can take the whole operation over, you bring him in, pay him what he wants, fire the guys on staff and pay their severance.   Barring that, I am not seeing anyone in the pipeline who is going to create a better experience for the fans than JD and Saleh can.  That is largely based on lack of confidence that Woody and Chris can sign someone better.