Hammer, meet nail in Metland

[Bugg]

Randolph may not be the 2nd coming of John McGraw, but the Mets' problems have more to do with the GM than the manager.

Analysis

With aging players, barren farm system, Omar Minaya's rule a reign of error

BY ADAM RUBIN

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Tuesday, June 10th 2008, 11:42 AM

Cataffo/News Manager Willie Randolph (l.) has felt the heat this season, but GM Omar Minaya added injury-prone players ...

Rothstein for News ... Orlando Hernandez (r.) and Pedro Martinez ...

Antonelli/News ... and Moises Alou.

You are watching the painfully slow demise of The New Mets, the vision Omar Minaya articulated four years ago but built as a house of cards.

Since being introduced as GM during the final week of the 2004 season, Minaya has upped the annual payroll roughly $55 million, to nearly $140 million. But as the Mets open a home stand Tuesday against the NL West-leading Diamondbacks, they sit two games under .500 and 7-1/2 games behind the first-place Phillies.

Two primary reasons for the Mets' misfortunes are clear:

• Minaya used to espouse the idea of having a young and athletic roster, which proved lip service in reality. Like a college student with a credit card, he just spent and spent and spent without considering any consequences. He offered too many years - to Luis Castillo, Orlando Hernandez, Guillermo Mota and Julio Franco, to name a few - perhaps even more frequently than too many dollars. The Mets had the oldest 40-man roster in baseball in a survey conducted in March, at 29.79 years. Their reliance on players in their late 30s and early 40s in a post-steroid era goes against the grain and was up for debate from the start. Minaya, asked in spring training about his club's age, dismissed any concern. Yet who couldn't predict Moises Alou, Pedro Martinez and El Duque landing on the disabled list for significant stretches of the season?

• The decline and fragility of veteran players has been compounded by one of the worst farm systems in baseball, which has left no safety net. When Alou and Marlon Anderson landed on the disabled list in rapid succession, Mets brass promoted third catcher Raul Casanova. When they finally dipped to the minors for a young player, they called up Double-A first baseman Nick Evans and asked him to play the outfield, a position he'd manned for only 17 games in his professional career. After a three-double debut in Colorado, Evans was in a 1-for-19 rut when he was sent back down. The Mets subsequently promoted 32-year-old former Phillie Abraham Nunez, who had been released from the Brewers' minor-league system, and who had batted just .133 in 13 games at Triple-A New Orleans. Regardless of anyone's opinion about Willie Randolph's job performance, and the manager certainly goes before Minaya, Randolph was handcuffed during San Diego's four-game weekend sweep that included three one-run games because his five-man bench consisted of unusable Ryan Church (post-concussion syndrome), two backup catchers, Nunez and the non-starter among Damion Easley and Fernando Tatis.

Still, writing obituaries with 100 games remaining can be foolish. The front page of the Houston Chronicle's sports section on June 1, 2005 - with the Astros 19-32 and already 14 games out of first - depicted a tombstone and proclaimed "RIP: Astros' Season." The Astros won the National League pennant.

Alou is expected back from the disabled list today and Martinez has comfortably hit 90 mph in two starts since returning from a strained left hamstring that kept him out two months. But even if the Mets do make a push for a postseason berth - lest anyone forget Colorado's storybook push at the end of last year, or Philadelphia catching the Mets despite a seven-game deficit with 17 to play - there's no foundation on which all this is built, which just means the Mets slipped through once more before the window on this group closes.

The bungled handling of Church's May 20 concussion exemplifies the lack of leadership and foresight. Even though the right fielder has consistently offered absolution of the front office, the situation was handled questionably at best. Church was allowed to fly from Atlanta, where he suffered the concussion, to Colorado. And even though he told reporters while in Denver that he felt like he was in a boat bobbing on the Bering Sea, Church pinch-hit twice that series. Team brass responded that Church was making his own decisions, but in how many medical settings is the patient the one prescribing the path to well-being and not the doctor? The Mets have a tradition of delaying putting players on the DL, only to play shorthanded for a week and then do what was common sense in the first place, and this case has been perhaps the worst. Indeed, Church went on the DL yesterday.

Meanwhile, the Shea faithful have grown accustomed to adding a big-ticket item each winter as well as expecting trading-deadline maneuvers to put the Mets in better position to contend. But it's conceivable that the cavalry isn't coming this time.

Despite Carlos Delgado's consecutive three-hit games to close the road trip to lift his average to .245, the Mets must not exercise his $12 million option, and instead will need to cut him a $4 million buyout check this winter. Would Fred and Jeff Wilpon really authorize a push for free-agent-to-be Mark Teixeira, a Scott Boras client, which would up the money allotted to that position at a time when ownership already has gone beyond what it cared to spend on this year's payroll?

There really isn't as much coming off the books as might appear, even if the Wilpons want to hold spending at that $140 million level. David Wright's salary increases $2.5 million, to $7.5 million in 2009. Jose Reyes' salary goes from $4 million to $5.75 million. Johan Santana's salary jumps $1 million as well, to $20 million.

Teammates already are convinced that pending free agent Oliver Perez plans to sign elsewhere. But without a viable minor-league arm to inherit a rotation spot - does anyone expect Double-A pitchers Jon Niese or Bobby Parnell to break camp with the big club next season?- Perez's $6.5 million salary would need to be used to lure another free-agent starter, perhaps even more expensive. Martinez also would need to be replaced if he isn't re-signed. (If he is re-signed, there's that injury risk again.) With teams preferring to have six capable starting pitchers in camp, El Duque's $6 million salary isn't entirely free and clear after 2008. And unless the Mets are ready to hand an outfield spot to prospect Fernando Martinez as their new ballpark opens, they'll need to spend more for a replacement for Alou, who is making $7.5 million this season.

The dependence on free agency coupled with the lack of a farm system also raises the question: Has Minaya failed to recognize a seismic shift in the MLB landscape? Teams, even with large payrolls, may not be able to retool solely through free agency anymore. With even smaller-market teams flush with money, fewer and fewer attractive free agents hit the market each winter, making the upcoming class headlined by Teixeira and C.C. Sabathia a perilous vehicle for restocking.

<A name=community>

[Jet Moses]

I think they could have won it all last year if Pedro didn't miss so many games. But that ship done sailed and it's time to shake up the roster. Get rid of Delgado, anyway, anyhow, any where.

[GimmeShelter]

Rubbish article.

Omar put the Mets back on the map. One hit away from the WS in 06 and if the players don't collapse last season he has us in the play-offs again. Raising a NY teams payroll from 90 mill to 145 with a new TV deal is not a issue when two of the players, Delgado and Beltran were critical to our 06 success. Johan was also a no brainer.

It's not like the Mets are getting ousted in the divisional round every year with a 210 mill payroll. The players simply collapsed down the stretch last year or articles like this one do not exist. The trade for Church and Schneider along with Johan was brilliant. I guess Omar should have seen Church's concussion coming in the writers opinion. I bet this writer also slammed Milledge while he was here for his antics yet now critiques Omar trading our farm.

The bench portion of the article is also weak and for comparison sake the Yanks at 210 mill pinch hit Chad Moeller in a recent game and I am sure no manager is going crazy late inning game planning for their bench of Moeller-Duncan and Betemit.

Another point on the farm system. The horrible farm system the writer speaks of was good enough to get us Santana and Church who prior to the concussion were among the league leaders stat wise at their perspective positions. It's also safe to say that the CF the Twins ended up with from our horrible farm system is a sure bet to be a better player than Melky Cabrera no? The team across town that refused to part with their farm in a Johan deal has seen those prospects win how many games? I'll help you.... zero.

Let's let the season play out before posting trash like this or at the very least provide us with a update on how your former Omar bashing favorite Brian Bannister is doing.

[Zeebers]

This article has some truths to it, but generally misses on some key points. As GS pointed out. The Mets were an afterthought before Minaya took over. He made them into contenders. Has he made some questionable moves? Yes. Has he made some good moves? Yes. Do the Mets have an older roster. Sure they do. He probably gambled on some aging vets this year and unfortunately they're not coming through. I think this team can be tweaked and be a contender easily next year if not this year. The core players are still young. You have Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Church and Santana and Maine as a 1-2 punch going forward. You can do a lot worse than that. I don't think the Mets picture is as grim as pointed out in the article.

[Jet Moses]

This article has some truths to it, but generally misses on some key points. As GS pointed out. The Mets were an afterthought before Minaya took over. He made them into contenders. Has he made some questionable moves? Yes. Has he made some good moves? Yes. Do the Mets have an older roster. Sure they do. He probably gambled on some aging vets this year and unfortunately they're not coming through. I think this team can be tweaked and be a contender easily next year if not this year. The core players are still young. You have Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Church and Santana and Maine as a 1-2 punch going forward. You can do a lot worse than that. I don't think the Mets picture is as grim as pointed out in the article.

I'm just thankful baseball doesn't have a salary cap. This team can be salvaged, even this year.

[Matt39]

Rubbish article.

Omar put the Mets back on the map. One hit away from the WS in 06 and if the players don't collapse last season he has us in the play-offs again. Raising a NY teams payroll from 90 mill to 145 with a new TV deal is not a issue when two of the players, Delgado and Beltran were critical to our 06 success. Johan was also a no brainer.

It's not like the Mets are getting ousted in the divisional round every year with a 210 mill payroll. The players simply collapsed down the stretch last year or articles like this one do not exist. The trade for Church and Schneider along with Johan was brilliant. I guess Omar should have seen Church's concussion coming in the writers opinion. I bet this writer also slammed Milledge while he was here for his antics yet now critiques Omar trading our farm.

The bench portion of the article is also weak and for comparison sake the Yanks at 210 mill pinch hit Chad Moeller in a recent game and I am sure no manager is going crazy late inning game planning for their bench of Moeller-Duncan and Betemit.

Another point on the farm system. The horrible farm system the writer speaks of was good enough to get us Santana and Church who prior to the concussion were among the league leaders stat wise at their perspective positions. It's also safe to say that the CF the Twins ended up with from our horrible farm system is a sure bet to be a better player than Melky Cabrera no? The team across town that refused to part with their farm in a Johan deal has seen those prospects win how many games? I'll help you.... zero.

Let's let the season play out before posting trash like this or at the very least provide us with a update on how your former Omar bashing favorite Brian Bannister is doing.

Are you kidding me with this post? Really? Talk about cant getting the Yankees out of your head.

The Mets are awful, how comparing that to the Yankees makes it any better is beyond me.

[Barton]

Are you kidding me with this post? Really? Talk about cant getting the Yankees out of your head.

The Mets are awful, how comparing that to the Yankees makes it any better is beyond me.

What did you expect? GS is so bitter and jealous of the Yankees he cant even make a post about the Mets without mentioning them.

[Zeebers]

Are you kidding me with this post? Really? Talk about cant getting the Yankees out of your head.

The Mets are awful, how comparing that to the Yankees makes it any better is beyond me.

Agreed, that post was too much about the Yankees, but is there anything he said about the Yankees that wasn't true??

[GimmeShelter]

Are you kidding me with this post? Really? Talk about cant getting the Yankees out of your head.

The Mets are awful, how comparing that to the Yankees makes it any better is beyond me.

The poster of the article is a Yankee fan who has been bashing Omar and everything he does for two years plus now so who has which team in there head? You know, the same guy who defended Clemens but of course Roger is not a minority.

If you haven't caught on to that trend of posting and remarks made about Omar and Latin players you've been in a coma. My mention of the Yanks was just a comparison to point out how the article is narrow minded and just a attack on Omar. If you however feel anything I said was incorrect regarding the Yanks feel free to elaborate.

[Bugg]

The poster of the article is a Yankee fan who has been bashing Omar and everything he does for two years plus now so who has which team in there head? You know, the same guy who defended Clemens but of course Roger is not a minority.

If you haven't caught on to that trend of posting and remarks made about Omar and Latin players you've been in a coma. My mention of the Yanks was just a comparison to point out how the article is narrow minded and just a attack on Omar. If you however feel anything I said was incorrect regarding the Yanks feel free to elaborate.

I am a Yankee fan,but haven't defended Clemens, so I don't know where you get that. In fact, Clemens is clearly a dumbass. The only thing to add is that we don't know who else did what for sure-like the now-injured and declining David Ortiz.

Scary thought-they may all have done it.

But it doesn't absolve Clemens.

And if you can defend or explain the Mets singing old and hurt Alou, proven MLB tested roid boy Mota, El Duque, Pedro(both pitchers who are possibly HoF(El Dugque) or certainly so in Martinez'z case, quality but now old and hurt) and Delgado( a person I admit I detest more than almost anyone else in sports), by all means, the floor is yours. If an Irish or black GM signed 4 or 5 over-the-hill players of his ethnic group to big bucks contracts as Omar did with these Latin guys, what would you say then?And in fairness Beltran has been a solid if not great signing.

Or if you can explain why when Randolph went to discipline dancer boy Reyes last summer, Omar intervened to stop him from doing so.Randolph only played or coached on something like 15 playoff teams, so what does he know, I guess, about playing middle infielder on a winning team. Isn't that why he was hired in the 1st place? Better Omar indulge this man (he's now 24) like a spoiled child,and watch him waste his talent.

I'd note that I'm so disgusted by Reyes' talent that I drafted him in round 1, pick 5 of my fanstasy draft this year. Silly me. If I could get "silly handshakes after rountine MLB plays" stat added in my league, I'd be in 1st. Thank God for Josh Hamilton, so I'm 5th in a league of 14.

[Zeebers]

I am a Yankee fan,but haven't defended Clemens, so I don't know where you get that. In fact, Clemens is clearly a dumbass. The only thing to add is that we don't know who else did what for sure-like the now-injured and declining David Ortiz.

Scary thought-they may all have done it.

But it doesn't absolve Clemens.

And if you can defend or explain the Mets singing old and hurt Alou, proven MLB tested roid boy Mota, El Duque, Pedro(both pitchers who are possibly HoF(El Dugque) or certainly so in Martinez'z case, quality but now old and hurt) and Delgado( a person I admit I detest more than almost anyone else in sports), by all means, the floor is yours. If an Irish or black GM signed 4 or 5 over-the-hill players of his ethnic group to big bucks contracts as Omar did with these Latin guys, what would you say then?And in fairness Beltran has been a solid if not great signing.

Or if you can explain why when Randolph went to discipline dancer boy Reyes last summer, Omar intervened to stop him from doing so.Randolph only played or coached on something like 15 playoff teams, so what does he know, I guess, about playing middle infielder on a winning team. Isn't that why he was hired in the 1st place? Better Omar indulge this man (he's now 24) like a spoiled child,and watch him waste his talent.

I'd note that I'm so disgusted by Reyes' talent that I drafted him in round 1, pick 5 of my fanstasy draft this year. Silly me. If I could get "silly handshakes after rountine MLB plays" stat added in my league, I'd be in 1st. Thank God for Josh Hamilton, so I'm 5th in a league of 14.

I agree on El duque, I can't stand the guy. If they cut him yesterday it wouldn't be early enough for me. He lost me when he didn't show up for the 2006 playoffs. He's lived off of his reputation for too long. Alou is always hurt, when he plays he's great, but again he is always hurt.

You miss the point when it comes to Pedro. No one knows the Mets existed until Pedro signed on, he gave the team credibility. He's a rockstar and I think he's actually worth his weight in gold. Yes he's always injured also, but the Mets had no choice but to give him the extra year when Boston wouldn't.

Beltran is a perennial all-star. He makes a lot of money, but if you look at the contract being tossed out there, he might even be underpaid.

As for Reyes, I think Yankee fans dislike him because of the comparisons to Reyes. The comparisons are unfair. Jeter is a HoFer. Reyes has a long long way to go to get into that discussion. I would still much rather have Jeter up when you need a big hit. With that said, as of today. What exactly does Jeter do better than Reyes. I'll give you that's he's a better hitter even though Reyes to this year has had a much better year offensively. Reyes has played a terrible shortstop this year, but Jeter is not in Reyes' league as far as defensive range. Reyes has superior xtra-base power. Speed is not even an issue. Arm, probably a toss up unless you're talking about the jump toss from short left field. Jeter is better at putting his Jeterian swing on balls and "driving" singles to the opposite field. Again, Jeter has a hell of a career, and Reyes is nowhere close to that. I am not saying Reyes is a better player right now, but that point is at least up for discussion, and if you don't think so, you'll probably need to take off those Yankee colored glasses.

Fantasy wise, why not draft Reyes, someone else would. By all accounts he's had a sub par season. But look closely at his numbers, they're pretty damn good. 2006 Reyes could have been an MVP, last year on "BAD" year he stole over 60 bases and scored over 120 runs and hit .280+. What exactly do you want from the guy. Anyway if you want more silly handshakes on your fantasy squad, maybe you can find the Melkman and Robbie Cano "what do you know" on your league waiver wire. But be careful, they might hurt your avg a little. Maybe you'll get extra points for having starters who do pirouettes after every strikeout. Just saying. Whatever helps.

[Thai Jet]

What did you expect? GS is so bitter and jealous of the Yankees he cant even make a post about the Mets without mentioning them.

Yes the under 500 Yankees.

[GimmeShelter]

I am a Yankee fan,but haven't defended Clemens, so I don't know where you get that. In fact, Clemens is clearly a dumbass. The only thing to add is that we don't know who else did what for sure-like the now-injured and declining David Ortiz.

Scary thought-they may all have done it.

But it doesn't absolve Clemens.

And if you can defend or explain the Mets singing old and hurt Alou, proven MLB tested roid boy Mota, El Duque, Pedro(both pitchers who are possibly HoF(El Dugque) or certainly so in Martinez'z case, quality but now old and hurt) and Delgado( a person I admit I detest more than almost anyone else in sports), by all means, the floor is yours. If an Irish or black GM signed 4 or 5 over-the-hill players of his ethnic group to big bucks contracts as Omar did with these Latin guys, what would you say then?And in fairness Beltran has been a solid if not great signing.

Or if you can explain why when Randolph went to discipline dancer boy Reyes last summer, Omar intervened to stop him from doing so.Randolph only played or coached on something like 15 playoff teams, so what does he know, I guess, about playing middle infielder on a winning team. Isn't that why he was hired in the 1st place? Better Omar indulge this man (he's now 24) like a spoiled child,and watch him waste his talent.

I'd note that I'm so disgusted by Reyes' talent that I drafted him in round 1, pick 5 of my fanstasy draft this year. Silly me. If I could get "silly handshakes after rountine MLB plays" stat added in my league, I'd be in 1st. Thank God for Josh Hamilton, so I'm 5th in a league of 14.

Delgado was a absolute force power and RBI wise until the wrist injury last year and a must signing at the time. The alternatives to Alou last winter were slim for 2008 and 1/2 a season of him should have sufficed considering the steal of a trade Omar made for Church and the Johan contract.

Reyes (wasting talent?) is on pace for 20 HR's - 80 RBI's- 112 Runs and 60 SB's. He had a bad Sept last year so it's time to move off that incorrect statement.

Randolph sat Reyes so not sure how he did not discipline him and you act like this is the first time in history a player and manager have not been in love.

Pedro was a mandatory signing at the time to attract future FA's to the Mets. If you don't think Beltran was a great signing maybe you can list for me the better all around CF's in the game. After nagging injuries in 05 he hit 75 HR's , scored 220 runs and stole 45 bases the next two seasons. Not quite Melky like but we'll take it just the same.

El Duke is/was a flyer we can afford to miss on as when healthy last year he was our best SP. You know about eating mistakes don't you? Clemens in 08, Igawa, Pavano, just to name a few. In fact anytime you want to put up Casman's track record against Omar's please do. Whenever that subject is touched on we hear how the owner forced Cashman's moves yet Cash was able to talk the owner into keeping prospects who haven't been able to win in the majors and a 4th outfielder rather than trade for Johan.

Finally, the Mets went wire to wire for the better part of two seasons and your only ammo during that span was Delgado hatred (remember you said he wouldn't hit in the post season in 06?) and the Bannister trade which now has moved off your radar due to him being what the Mets thought he was, JAG. Omar arrived on the scene with no SP and had two young superstars to build around. He added vets to the young nucleus as no-one is handing you 24 yr old stars and the Mets won immediately yet you post as if they've finished last for three straight seasons.

I'll go out on a limb and guess you won't be at Marenge Night at Shea this summer.

[Bugg]

MINAYA IS MAKING SAME OLD MISTAKES

WILLIE WORRIES: Manager Willie Randolph, watching the MetsNew York Mets pull off a 5-3, 13-inning win last night over the Diamondbacks, has taken much of the blame, but GM Omar Minaya put together the roster of ailing veterans.

June 12, 2008 -- THE All-Star Game is shaping up as potential humiliation in the Bronx for the Mets. Willie Randolph is scheduled to be there as an NL coach, though he might not even be the Met manager any longer. And Cleveland's Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore almost certainly will be there, and so might Cincinnati's Brandon Phillips.

That would be an extreme embarrassment for Omar Minaya. He traded all three in June 2002 for Bartolo Colon. His reasoning then, as Montreal's GM, was that the Expos were under threat of being contracted, so he was willing to make a damn-tomorrow deal.

That would work better as an alibi except for two little items: 1) The Expos were never contracted, and 2) he is presiding over the majors' oldest team now, symbolic that he talks about player development, but almost always goes with veterans.

So this roster is a reflection of its architect. He, therefore, is as responsible for the group that collapsed last September and is under .500 now as is Randolph. He's more responsible actually. Yet it is Randolph who is on the launching pad. This is how the game works: coaches get fired before managers, managers get fired before general managers.

However, Randolph's record is Minaya's record. Minaya hired Randolph to this job. They have been a team since Minaya took over after the 2004 season; hired, ironically, because the Mets so badly wanted to change the subject after ludicrously trading their best pitching prospect, Scott Kazmir, for Victor Zambrano. Kazmir might be in The Bronx for the All-Star Game, too.

Minaya came in saying he wanted to mimic the Brave model, creating a farm system that would make the roster self-sustaining. He inherited Jose ReyesJose Reyes and David Wright, and mainly has used the system for his favorite pastime, obtaining older, established players. His initial first-round pick as Met GM, Mike PelfreyMike Pelfrey , had his finest pro moment last night with eight powerhouse innings against Arizona in which he outpitched Brandon Webb, the sinkerball maestro the Mets most hope he emulates.

He still didn't win because Billy Wagner surrendered a tying, three-run homer to Mark Reynolds in the ninth. Thus, Carlos Beltran's two-run homer in the 13th that brought a 5-3 triumph helped the Mets avoid another one of those devastating setbacks.

Still, the record is 31-33 and the problems from not having that self-sustaining farm system are obvious. As that old roster has broken down, Minaya had to summon the not ready (Nick Evans) or from a retread group (Fernando Tatis, Robinson Cancel, Raul Casanova, Abraham Nunez, Chris Aguila) that would be laughed off the Long Island Ducks.

At his introductory press conference, Minaya said, "The plan is pitching, defense and athleticism." But four years later, you have to wonder if he has lost his way. The only starting pitchers assured to move into Citi Field are Johan Santana, John Maine and likely Pelfrey. The defense has constantly been sacrificed for older offense: Think Paul Lo Duca, Shawn Green, Moises Alou and Carlos Delgado.

When asked about his work here, Minaya said, "I see this more as a turnaround of a franchise. We have been over .500 three years and play an exciting style of speed baseball that has not been seen here before."

Now Mookie Wilson, Lenny Dykstra and Wally Backman might take issue to that speed comment. I will point out again that Minaya inherited Reyes, who is the main speed player. And Minaya was permitted to spend money in a bolder way than his predecessors, which allowed additions such as Delgado, Carlos Beltran, Pedro Martinez and Billy Wagner, which helped forge those over-.500 marks.

Minaya also has constructed a roster that depended on Alou, who after returning from the DL for one game Tuesday, already was injured again. Minaya put together a clubhouse with such a leadership void that Marlon Anderson was orchestrating team meetings shortly after being obtained last year and was trying to be inspiring at another gathering on Tuesday, his first day off the DL.

The deterioration from age and lack of core leadership have undermined Randolph's team, and might make him an All-Star coach, but an unemployed manager next month. But Randolph can only manage the team his GM gives him.

joel.sherman@nypost.com

[DaBrick Wall]

Rubbish article.

Omar put the Mets back on the map. One hit away from the WS in 06 and if the players don't collapse last season he has us in the play-offs again. Raising a NY teams payroll from 90 mill to 145 with a new TV deal is not a issue when two of the players, Delgado and Beltran were critical to our 06 success. Johan was also a no brainer.

It's not like the Mets are getting ousted in the divisional round every year with a 210 mill payroll. The players simply collapsed down the stretch last year or articles like this one do not exist. The trade for Church and Schneider along with Johan was brilliant. I guess Omar should have seen Church's concussion coming in the writers opinion. I bet this writer also slammed Milledge while he was here for his antics yet now critiques Omar trading our farm.

The bench portion of the article is also weak and for comparison sake the Yanks at 210 mill pinch hit Chad Moeller in a recent game and I am sure no manager is going crazy late inning game planning for their bench of Moeller-Duncan and Betemit.

Another point on the farm system. The horrible farm system the writer speaks of was good enough to get us Santana and Church who prior to the concussion were among the league leaders stat wise at their perspective positions. It's also safe to say that the CF the Twins ended up with from our horrible farm system is a sure bet to be a better player than Melky Cabrera no? The team across town that refused to part with their farm in a Johan deal has seen those prospects win how many games? I'll help you.... zero.

Let's let the season play out before posting trash like this or at the very least provide us with a update on how your former Omar bashing favorite Brian Bannister is doing.

Can you write a freaking comment without mentioning the Yankees? Thank God the Yankees didn't trade for Santana. If they did they'd be today's Mets: bad now, bad future.

Also great job analyzing that "farm system." The Twins GAVE Santana away for NOTHING, and Church was a great acquisition, but it's not like he was a top-flight player at the time of the trade. Get back to me in 3 years on the non-Santana trade for the Yanks.

At least you are right on one point. Melky Cabrera sucks. But so does Carlos Gomez.

[GimmeShelter]

Can you write a freaking comment without mentioning the Yankees? Thank God the Yankees didn't trade for Santana. If they did they'd be today's Mets: bad now, bad future.

Also great job analyzing that "farm system." The Twins GAVE Santana away for NOTHING, and Church was a great acquisition, but it's not like he was a top-flight player at the time of the trade. Get back to me in 3 years on the non-Santana trade for the Yanks.

At least you are right on one point. Melky Cabrera sucks. But so does Carlos Gomez.

Yes sport Gomez was a top prospect and if you think he sucks you haven't been watching much baseball this year. The player the Twins got is hitting .280 with 5 HR's and 18 SB's in his first season of regular playing time. Once his plate discipline improves and his OBP goes up he will be a upper echelon lead-off hitter. The prospects the Yanks overhyped and refused to trade have zero W's and are no longer in the rotation.

If the Yanks had traded for Johan they'd have 7-10 more wins then they do today.

As to Church, you have to give Minaya credit for correctly reading into the fact that all those doubles playing in spacious Washington would translate into HR's even at Shea.

In summary Omar traded Milledge, Huber, Gomez, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerral for Church, Santana and Schneider. I make that deal 7 days a week but before you or any media writer can discredit the Twins haul you need to go back and revisit their track record in trades. Knoblauch, Nathan, Liriano, Guzman, Castillo etc.

[DaBrick Wall]

Yes sport Gomez was a top prospect and if you think he sucks you haven't been watching much baseball this year. The player the Twins got is hitting .280 with 5 HR's and 18 SB's in his first season of regular playing time. Once his plate discipline improves and his OBP goes up he will be a upper echelon lead-off hitter. The prospects the Yanks overhyped and refused to trade have zero W's and are no longer in the rotation.

If the Yanks had traded for Johan they'd have 7-10 more wins then they do today.

As to Church, you have to give Minaya credit for correctly reading into the fact that all those doubles playing in spacious Washington would translate into HR's even at Shea.

In summary Omar traded Milledge, Huber, Gomez, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerral for Church, Santana and Schneider. I make that deal 7 days a week but before you or any media writer can discredit the Twins haul you need to go back and revisit their track record in trades. Knoblauch, Nathan, Liriano, Guzman, Castillo etc.

Ah yes, and what has Carlos Gomez provided? A hearty .717 OPS with a stellar .312 OBP. Now that screams leadoff hitter. But I get it. Hughes and Kennedy suck because they haven't gotten a win in one month, but Gomez will automatically improve his walk rate. I forgot the part where Mets prospects or ex-prospects automatically improve while Yankees ones suck based on one month of work.

I did give Minaya credit for that trade. It was a great trade. But it's not like he was a great player before the trade and Jim Bowden of all people was looking for a boatload of top prospects for him. The fact that you said "The Mets farm system got them Church" doesn't really matter, because they weren't expected to give up any top prospects for him. ANd just because the Twins have a good track record in trades doesn't mean they get it right 100% of the time.

[Zeebers]

Can you write a freaking comment without mentioning the Yankees? Thank God the Yankees didn't trade for Santana. If they did they'd be today's Mets: bad now, bad future.

Also great job analyzing that "farm system." The Twins GAVE Santana away for NOTHING, and Church was a great acquisition, but it's not like he was a top-flight player at the time of the trade. Get back to me in 3 years on the non-Santana trade for the Yanks.

At least you are right on one point. Melky Cabrera sucks. But so does Carlos Gomez.

Personally I don't care one way or another if the Twins made a good deal or not. The fact of the matter is if you don't think Gomez has had a good year in his first year of playing time you're not paying attention. Don't forget Gomez is only 22 years old and if you actually watched him play you would see what he's capable of. I am going to go out on a limb and say that you probably watched him during the Yankee series in which he played terrible and showed that he's still very undisciplined along with all his ability. He's already better than the Melkman. If you find anyone who would take Cabrera over Gomez send him my way, I'll sell him the Verrazano.

If you're telling me you're glad the Yankees didn't make the Santana trade, you're either a blind homer or lying through your teeth. There were rumors that Santana was available for Kennedy and Cabrera. Personally I never thought that was on the table but who knows. If that were the case, Cashman needs to evaluate his talent evaluators, because they're both terrible and overrated. Hughes and Cabrera can be debated, but Hughes thus far has shown you nothing.

[Jet Moses]

Still, the record is 31-33 and the problems from not having that self-sustaining farm system are obvious. As that old roster has broken down, Minaya had to summon the not ready (Nick Evans) or from a retread group (Fernando Tatis, Robinson Cancel, Raul Casanova, Abraham Nunez, Chris Aguila) that would be laughed off the Long Island Ducks.

Ouch.

[Barton]

Yes sport Gomez was a top prospect and if you think he sucks you haven't been watching much baseball this year. The player the Twins got is hitting .280 with 5 HR's and 18 SB's in his first season of regular playing time. Once his plate discipline improves and his OBP goes up he will be a upper echelon lead-off hitter. The prospects the Yanks overhyped and refused to trade have zero W's and are no longer in the rotation.

If the Yanks had traded for Johan they'd have 7-10 more wins then they do today.

As to Church, you have to give Minaya credit for correctly reading into the fact that all those doubles playing in spacious Washington would translate into HR's even at Shea.

In summary Omar traded Milledge, Huber, Gomez, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerral for Church, Santana and Schneider. I make that deal 7 days a week but before you or any media writer can discredit the Twins haul you need to go back and revisit their track record in trades. Knoblauch, Nathan, Liriano, Guzman, Castillo etc.

You cant honestly believe that.

Dude, the Mets frickin blow this season. Stop denying.

[124]

Yes the under 500 Yankees.

Well you know those 31-34 Mets are just fantastic as well.

BTW, the Yankees are 33-33.