Mangini annoyed with Kellen *cough*Browning Nagle*cough* Clemens

[Sperm Edwards]

That's bull**** because Chad's completion percentage over the years on deep passes has actually be very good. He just doesn't heave the ball that often over 30-40 yards.

That's because he doesn't heave it unless the deep coverage has totally broken down & his receiver is open by 5-10 yards. If every QB only threw the ball deep in those situations, I'm sure their numbers would look similar.

From what I'm reading of the camp reports (though I don't put too much stock in reports of the first 4 days of camp), that has not changed at all.

[Jetfan13]

I can throw the ball deep, but it does not make me an NFL QB.

Chad is limited. He is tremendously accurate under 10 yards. Anything beyond that he is severly limited.

If his number over 10 yards were historically good then your point about Herm would be accurate, but they have been terrible.

at least your boy TX backs up his drivel with stats...show us...

[Sperm Edwards]

at least your boy TX backs up his drivel with stats...show us...

Stats don't show how many intermediate & deep passes - with enough room to complete it if the ball got there quickly enough - that Chad didn't make in favor of a dumpoff.

Not that he's the end-all of NFL WR's, but I used to remember at the stadium watching Moss trot off the field in disgust after he'd beaten the coverage deep only to have Chad dump that 3rd & 8 off to Martin for a 6 yard gain. Happened a lot even before the shoulder separation. He just didn't mouth off to the press about it like a Terrell Owens.

[124]

Not that he's the end-all of NFL WR's, but I used to remember at the stadium watching Moss trot off the field in disgust after he'd beaten the coverage deep only to have Chad dump that 3rd & 8 off to Martin for a 6 yard gain. Happened a lot. He just didn't mouth off to the press about it like a Terrell Owens.

Exactly Sperm because Chad does not have the arm strength, aka the ability, to throw the deep ball on a consistent basis. The only time he throws it deep is, when you said, the receiver has the Cornerback beaten by at least 10 yards. Otherwise, he knows the Corner will catch up and have a chance at breaking up the reception.

Santana Moss would've been better than Laveranues Coles here if he had a Quarterback who could make all the throws.

[Jetfan13]

Stats don't show how many intermediate & deep passes - with enough room to complete it if the ball got there quickly enough - that Chad didn't make in favor of a dumpoff.

Not that he's the end-all of NFL WR's, but I used to remember at the stadium watching Moss trot off the field in disgust after he'd beaten the coverage deep only to have Chad dump that 3rd & 8 off to Martin for a 6 yard gain. Happened a lot even before the shoulder separation. He just didn't mouth off to the press about it like a Terrell Owens.

Chad is limited. He is tremendously accurate under 10 yards. Anything beyond that he is severly limited.

To make a statement like that you should be able to back it up. I want to see what he is looking at to make that statement..

Not to make a comparison but Brady throws alot of underneath passes also. He has 3 rings and an MVP so it is ok for him. And that Moss , early in the season, also made a few faces & grimaces because Brady hadn't acclimated himself to the speed factor yet. Of course we all know how that worked out in the end...

[124]

Al, the difference there is that when Brady needs to throw a deep ball, he can do it with ease. When he needs to throw a rocket 15,20 or 25 yard crossing route or out route or whatever route, he can do it with plenty of speed on it, he doesn't loft it in there and hope for a prayer. Brady can beat you over the middle of the field more than 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, Chad Pennington cannot. And lastly, if you're New England down 10 with 5 minutes to go, you don't worry. If you're the Jets, you know its over because Pennington cannot carry a team to such a comeback because of his lack of arm strength. Dink & dunks don't win Super Bowls.

[Jetfan13]

Al, the difference there is that when Brady needs to throw a deep ball, he can do it with ease. When he needs to throw a rocket 15,20 or 25 yard crossing route or out route or whatever route, he can do it with plenty of speed on it, he doesn't loft it in there and hope for a prayer. Brady can beat you over the middle of the field more than 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, Chad Pennington cannot. And lastly, if you're New England down 10 with 5 minutes to go, you don't worry. If you're the Jets, you know its over because Pennington cannot carry a team to such a comeback because of his lack of arm strength. Dink & dunks don't win Super Bowls.

no arguement Joe, I said it wasn't meant as a comparison.

[BaumerJet]

Clemens throws have also been improving, his descision making needs some work still, but again, 3 days of TC, it could turn either way really fast.

Also, Penny keeps sticking with the underneathe routes, whats his longest completion been 20yds give or take a few? He's playing to win the practices, not for when it counts

Lets wait till the 7th to begin making decisions in either of these two, when defenses start game planning them and thier weaknesses (like stacking 8 in the box to prevent the check down passes)

C-Mart, he threw a 35-Yard slant to LC in Saturday afternoon's practice - I should know, I was there & photographed the reception - I think he's getting better.

Still, He's appearing to be injury prone in the regular season & should he fall, I just don't think KC is the answer - Ange might be (Next Year) but not now...

[KSJets]

Exactly Sperm because Chad does not have the arm strength, aka the ability, to throw the deep ball on a consistent basis. The only time he throws it deep is, when you said, the receiver has the Cornerback beaten by at least 10 yards. Otherwise, he knows the Corner will catch up and have a chance at breaking up the reception.

Santana Moss would've been better than Laveranues Coles here if he had a Quarterback who could make all the throws.

And I still blame that on Herm's ultra-conservativeness. I remember a game against the Titans a couple of years ago where Chad threw 3 or 4 deep passes in the game, and they were completed. I think it was the opening game of the season.

I also remember the flea-flicker last year that Kellen threw against Pittsburgh that was underthrown by Kellen and caused Coles' ankle injury because the CB caught up to him. Kellen has a much stronger arm than Chad, which is a given. One of the negatives on Kellen coming out of college was that his long passes weren't very accurate. That seems to be holding true.

Now, I'm not talking about the out routes or anything like that, but Chad does have a very nice deep ball that he throws. I will forever blame Herm though because I firmly believe these coaches pound it into their heads about INT's and not wanting turnovers, that it's counter-productive. I can already see it happening with Mangini and Clemens with these practices. I just hope Kellen doesn't become afraid to throw it deep for fear of throwing an INT.

[124]

Chad made those throws against Tennessee at home on Monday Night Football in 2003, pre torn rotator cuff surgeries.

[KSJets]

No, it was the 2006 season opener that I was thinking about:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28871&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG1