JI/JN Border War Mafia Game Thread

[Marcellus Wallace]

So when I said:

Why post later without mentioning Frank's name. If I was asking to hear your case it must not have been so clear to me.

Then much later I bring it up again:

You never talked about him again. Do not try to blame it on us for not "acknowledging" your case, quoting you, or mentioning it at all.

2 quotes asking for my case is "repeatedly"...that isnt my definition of the word, but o.k. You werent lying. I honestly couldnt remember anyone other than Joe asking to hear more.

But I'm still confused about what you wanted to hear that I didnt already say. My case was quite detailed. He was contradicting himself left and right...that was my case. Nothing more nothing less. Nobody was listening, so I gave up. At that point in the game we didnt have any solid cases, so I figured I would start one on a character that I thought was acting scummy. Then we had chaous ensue and since nobody other than you and Joe were willing to listen, I refocused my efforts. This happens in just about every game.

[Vito Corleone]

I find it strange that you have all this concern for Virgil but then you end up voting me. Especially considering that you were in agreement with me that Virgil ignoring Joe and going for Sonny was stupid. Also, take into account his reveal and the deal he tried to strike with the cult.

After thinking it over, Virgil is very dangerous right now. His role reveal is keeping all the pressure away. Is it possible Virgil is the CL, recruited the Doc and revealed because he knew there would be no counter claim?

Virgil could be taking us for a ride.

I'd say that was interesting, but that would just be patting myself on the back, wouldn't it? I mean, all you did here was repeat what I theorized.

I'm very concerned that this could be the case. That's no lie. But what do you suggest we do about it? Are you ready to start the lynch mob to go after our doc? Without a counter-claim? I'm just not ready to do that.

And you just repeating what I said in the first place really kinda reeks of some sort of misdirection play. Like you're here to help the town when you're really not coming up with anything helpful on your own.

Simply looking at the numbers, you are likely scum or cult. With end game near and all the hoopla you made about Virgil you vote me. I just find it strange. I welcome pressure, you will find nothing here. My fear right now, is that you 2 could be potentially setting me up because I could be the easy lynch right now if this case you guys are building against me is believable to others.

[..]

I'm concerned that you are being pursuaded by Virgil who you find troubling and who has been wrong all game long.

Wow. If I was Virgil's partner in anything, why would I be the first to bring up the idea that he could potentially be cult? No one was talking about that concept at all but me - until you parrotted what I had to say.

And I came to my conclusions about you separately from Virgil. He had to direct me back to an earlier post that I had either skimmed over or missed to show me that he was suspicious of you - after I cast my vote. I'm not being persuaded by Virgil here, at all.

I feel very strongly that we need to lynch cult today, and you're my best guess for cult right now. It would be between you and Soprano, probably, but you have the case you dropped against Frank working against you. Virgil could be cult, but I'm not ready to lynch the doc. One of the lovers could be cult, but I'm not ready to lynch 2-for-1 today, either.

If you've got a better case for lynchable cult, I'm listening.

[Vito Corleone]

@ Doggin: Is there a deadline for the end of this day phase? I don't think you've posted one.

[Marcellus Wallace]

I'd say that was interesting, but that would just be patting myself on the back, wouldn't it? I mean, all you did here was repeat what I theorized.

I'm very concerned that this could be the case. That's no lie. But what do you suggest we do about it? Are you ready to start the lynch mob to go after our doc? Without a counter-claim? I'm just not ready to do that.

And you just repeating what I said in the first place really kinda reeks of some sort of misdirection play. Like you're here to help the town when you're really not coming up with anything helpful on your own.

Wow. If I was Virgil's partner in anything, why would I be the first to bring up the idea that he could potentially be cult? No one was talking about that concept at all but me - until you parrotted what I had to say.

And I came to my conclusions about you separately from Virgil. He had to direct me back to an earlier post that I had either skimmed over or missed to show me that he was suspicious of you - after I cast my vote. I'm not being persuaded by Virgil here, at all.

I feel very strongly that we need to lynch cult today, and you're my best guess for cult right now. It would be between you and Soprano, probably, but you have the case you dropped against Frank working against you. Virgil could be cult, but I'm not ready to lynch the doc. One of the lovers could be cult, but I'm not ready to lynch 2-for-1 today, either.

If you've got a better case for lynchable cult, I'm listening.

If you've got a better case for lynchable cult, I'm listening.

I must have missed your case against Virgil being the CL...you are the bomb. Sorry to try and steal your thunder. Eventhough you are coming after me instead.

Just because you made a case against him being CL doesnt clear you from that association. It could be a distancing move. After all, you were the one who consistently said Joe needed to go and we agreed. Virgil started a case against an innocent Sonny and then you dropped the hammer on him while I stayed with what I thought was the smart vote. Couple that with the fact that the 2 of you are all of a sudden coming after with a weak case makes me think its possible you guys are working together. This stinks of a set up.

I think Tony S. is an interesting prosepct. EY threw him out there along with Virgil as being scum when he went crazy and he hasnt been feeling heat.

And I dont have any other cases for you right now. I think that I have been pressured and I dont really think your case holds any weight. I mean at least Virgil can say that he acknowledged my case. You probably didnt even know that I made one against Frank.

And I would also like to point out, eventhough by no means does it clear my name, but I have only been a part of 1 innocent death and that was Rooney on day 1. That cant be said for anyone left in this game. Just trust your instincts here buddy. If I was cult, why would the CL let me be so active at this stage when guys like Ace, Wallace, Fredo and Carlito post once a day if that and get away with it without feeling any pressure. If I was being coached, and you got imagine the CL is coaching, I am pretty sure he would tell me to shut the F up from fear of lynch or nk.

[Tony Soprano]

Really, really unsure about what direction to go in at this point. The Carlito-Wallace man-union makes things even more convoluted, if that's possible.

But the one thing that is starting to smell weird is this burgeoning (sp?) Vito-Virgil "alliance". Virgil's reveal stunk and still stinks while Vito has been as scrutiny free as anyone.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

If you've got a better case for lynchable cult, I'm listening.

I must have missed your case against Virgil being the CL...you are the bomb. Sorry to try and steal your thunder. Eventhough you are coming after me instead.

Just because you made a case against him being CL doesnt clear you from that association. It could be a distancing move. After all, you were the one who consistently said Joe needed to go and we agreed. Virgil started a case against an innocent Sonny and then you dropped the hammer on him while I stayed with what I thought was the smart vote. Couple that with the fact that the 2 of you are all of a sudden coming after with a weak case makes me think its possible you guys are working together. This stinks of a set up.

I think Tony S. is an interesting prosepct. EY threw him out there along with Virgil as being scum when he went crazy and he hasnt been feeling heat.

And I dont have any other cases for you right now. I think that I have been pressured and I dont really think your case holds any weight. I mean at least Virgil can say that he acknowledged my case. You probably didnt even know that I made one against Frank.

And I would also like to point out, eventhough by no means does it clear my name, but I have only been a part of 1 innocent death and that was Rooney on day 1. That cant be said for anyone left in this game. Just trust your instincts here buddy. If I was cult, why would the CL let me be so active at this stage when guys like Ace, Wallace, Fredo and Carlito post once a day if that and get away with it without feeling any pressure. If I was being coached, and you got imagine the CL is coaching, I am pretty sure he would tell me to shut the F up from fear of lynch or nk.

How is doing nothing to avoid a random lynch "the smart vote".

Secondly. For you and Vito. If I were the CL why draw such suspicion to myself when up to that point most guys seemed to think I was innocent. Why ruin a clean reputation in the middle of a night phase. If I had not done that, would my name even be coming up today?

I thought it was a risk worth taking because I thought we had no time left. I am sure I will end up apologizing for it if it ultimately distracts the town from the real targets...but I thought it might help us.

Regarding your argument that you would not post so much if you were cult. Why don't you use that same logic for other guys. By your rationale, wouldn't the CL tell me to shut up too? Why does it work for you but not me.

[Doggin94it]

@ Doggin: Is there a deadline for the end of this day phase? I don't think you've posted one.

Day ends at 5:30 pm tomorrow

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Sorry, here it is quoted properly.

I must have missed your case against Virgil being the CL...you are the bomb. Sorry to try and steal your thunder. Eventhough you are coming after me instead.

Just because you made a case against him being CL doesnt clear you from that association. It could be a distancing move. After all, you were the one who consistently said Joe needed to go and we agreed. Virgil started a case against an innocent Sonny and then you dropped the hammer on him while I stayed with what I thought was the smart vote. Couple that with the fact that the 2 of you are all of a sudden coming after with a weak case makes me think its possible you guys are working together. This stinks of a set up.

I think Tony S. is an interesting prosepct. EY threw him out there along with Virgil as being scum when he went crazy and he hasnt been feeling heat.

And I dont have any other cases for you right now. I think that I have been pressured and I dont really think your case holds any weight. I mean at least Virgil can say that he acknowledged my case. You probably didnt even know that I made one against Frank.

And I would also like to point out, eventhough by no means does it clear my name, but I have only been a part of 1 innocent death and that was Rooney on day 1. That cant be said for anyone left in this game. Just trust your instincts here buddy. If I was cult, why would the CL let me be so active at this stage when guys like Ace, Wallace, Fredo and Carlito post once a day if that and get away with it without feeling any pressure. If I was being coached, and you got imagine the CL is coaching, I am pretty sure he would tell me to shut the F up from fear of lynch or nk.

How is doing nothing to avoid a random lynch "the smart vote".

Secondly. For you and Vito. If I were the CL why draw such suspicion to myself when up to that point most guys seemed to think I was innocent. Why ruin a clean reputation in the middle of a night phase. If I had not done that, would my name even be coming up today?

I thought it was a risk worth taking because I thought we had no time left. I am sure I will end up apologizing for it if it ultimately distracts the town from the real targets...but I thought it might help us.

Regarding your argument that you would not post so much if you were cult. Why don't you use that same logic for other guys. By your rationale, wouldn't the CL tell me to shut up too? Why does it work for you but not me.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Really, really unsure about what direction to go in at this point. The Carlito-Wallace man-union makes things even more convoluted, if that's possible.

But the one thing that is starting to smell weird is this burgeoning (sp?) Vito-Virgil "alliance". Virgil's reveal stunk and still stinks while Vito has been as scrutiny free as anyone.

This is the kind of post that has been typical of you and is what made me suspicious of you in the first place.

Basic observations we already know. Yes the game is convoluted, yes my reveal "stunk" as has been mentioned a million times already, and yes Vito has been scrutiny free, hence I took the time to reread his posts. Maybe you can try doing that too, that would be helpful. Did you read what I came up with on the names you already mentioned weren't getting heat...any thoughts, any ideas of your own?

Repeating Jimmy's theory about an alliance between myself and Vito also contributes nothing. Think it through for yourself. Why would I waste my time going through his posts again if he is my teammate. I could easily sit back, like you have done, and let someone else try it. Your tactic of bringing up his name twice without contributing any substance makes more sense as an easy distancing tactic. And why would Vito spend so much time challenging me as a potential CL. Seems like a lot of work to transparently distance ourselves from each other.

[Tony Soprano]

This is the kind of post that has been typical of you and is what made me suspicious of you in the first place.

Basic observations we already know. Yes the game is convoluted, yes my reveal "stunk" as has been mentioned a million times already, and yes Vito has been scrutiny free, hence I took the time to reread his posts. Maybe you can try doing that too, that would be helpful. Did you read what I came up with on the names you already mentioned weren't getting heat...any thoughts, any ideas of your own?

Repeating Jimmy's theory about an alliance between myself and Vito also contributes nothing. Think it through for yourself. Why would I waste my time going through his posts again if he is my teammate. I could easily sit back, like you have done, and let someone else try it. Your tactic of bringing up his name twice without contributing any substance makes more sense as an easy distancing tactic. And why would Vito spend so much time challenging me as a potential CL. Seems like a lot of work to transparently distance ourselves from each other.

Well, in a game with Joe's crazy role claim, the two deaths night one, your unorthodox role claim, and the fruit brothers' claim, a complicated and risky gambit by you and Vito is not very far-fetched at all.

You be as condescending as you'd like Virgil. You're still very likely cult/scum.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Well, in a game with Joe's crazy role claim, the two deaths night one, your unorthodox role claim, and the fruit brothers' claim, a complicated and risky gambit by you and Vito is not very far-fetched at all.

You be as condescending as you'd like Virgil. You're still very likely cult/scum.

I did not intend to be condescending so I apologize if my post came across more harshly than I meant it.

I really want to know if you read my summaries of the scrutiny-free guys and have anything to add. Things like that would benefit the town more than general observations. As I said at the time, I had trouble finding much so it would be good to get additional pairs of eyes looking at them.

And I am weary of the same things being said over and over about my reveal, from you and others. Naturally I acknowledge it looks scummy I asked to be converted, but I have explained what I was doing. And unless everyone is actually willing to lynch the town healer...we have only 24 hours to make up our minds on someone else. We need everyone contributing right now.

Same goes for Carlito and Marcellus. Claiming to be lovers - and we know neither of you is silenced today - then disappearing. Not helpful at all. Ace has been gone for a while too.

Of course I say this knowing the reason it's hard to get people contributing is because few of you, if there's even more than one besides me right now, are actually town-sided.

[Tony Soprano]

I did not intend to be condescending so I apologize if my post came across more harshly than I meant it.

I really want to know if you read my summaries of the scrutiny-free guys and have anything to add. Things like that would benefit the town more than general observations. As I said at the time, I had trouble finding much so it would be good to get additional pairs of eyes looking at them.

And I am weary of the same things being said over and over about my reveal, from you and others. Naturally I acknowledge it looks scummy I asked to be converted, but I have explained what I was doing. And unless everyone is actually willing to lynch the town healer...we have only 24 hours to make up our minds on someone else. We need everyone contributing right now.

Same goes for Carlito and Marcellus. Claiming to be lovers - and we know neither of you is silenced today - then disappearing. Not helpful at all. Ace has been gone for a while too.

Of course I say this knowing the reason it's hard to get people contributing is because few of you, if there's even more than one besides me right now, are actually town-sided.

Well, it is fair, in the sense that I contributed virtually nothing all weekend, and have been very busy at work all day. But, I'm just more of a brevity guy in general. I do agree that there have been several occasion sof me parroting another player's theory. I can see how that looks scummy, but I'm going to do that if that's what I really believe, rather than introduce an independent theory, just to do so.

I liked Carlito for scum/cult for a long time, but he's right, he'd make a horrible scum candidate, and would have almost from jump.

So if he's scum, Marcelles is also. That's a helluva gambit, but possible. What a great wifom to throw out there also.

You're right Virgil, you were not attracting heat before the reveal. And as you say, you immeadiately are in everyone's crosshairs afterwards. But then you had that "oh it was really a pro-town ruse" hustle prepared, so that's fishy.

And Vito, well, he's just been too smooth all game. More than happy to be the Don building a coalesence.

I really don't have much more than that, unfortunately. I will try and do some re-reading during the NYY's game and have a vote prepared before bed.

[Vito Corleone]

But the one thing that is starting to smell weird is this burgeoning (sp?) Vito-Virgil "alliance". Virgil's reveal stunk and still stinks while Vito has been as scrutiny free as anyone.

The moment of Virgil's "claim," I went ballistic on him. I had wanted to lynch Joe the day before because I thought he was either cult, or had a weird role that was likely to kill someone at night. As soon as Virgil pulled his prank, I called for Joe to use his "power" (if he had one!) on Virgil that night. Then I said that he was setting himself up for a quick lynch.

Then I was the first to bring up a case against him as potential cult believing, as I do, that his play was a smarter one as cult than as town.

With friends like me, Virgil doesn't need enemies.

My only "alliance" with him now is the complete lack of stomach to lynch a claimed doc without a counter-claim. Am I a little nervous about that? Yes I am, but I really don't know what choice I have at this moment other to believe he's a townie who made a move I would not have in his position.

Well, in a game with Joe's crazy role claim, the two deaths night one, your unorthodox role claim, and the fruit brothers' claim, a complicated and risky gambit by you and Vito is not very far-fetched at all.

You be as condescending as you'd like Virgil. You're still very likely cult/scum.

Virgil is not likely to be scum at all. He really would've been foolish to claim doc unless he knew the doc had already been converted, otherwise he'd be risking a counter-claim. I'll say it now, if there's a "real doc" out there, SPEAK UP!

But you trying to tie Virgil to me, and suggesting that he could be scum, all reeks of deflection from you and Jimmy. I said early on that the two of you could easily be cult partners, and nothing that's been said in this thread today has altered my opinion there. In fact, everything from the two of you today has only served to strengthen that opinion.

You can help to clear that up, though. You can vote for Conway.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Sorry, here it is quoted properly.

How is doing nothing to avoid a random lynch "the smart vote".

Secondly. For you and Vito. If I were the CL why draw such suspicion to myself when up to that point most guys seemed to think I was innocent. Why ruin a clean reputation in the middle of a night phase. If I had not done that, would my name even be coming up today?

I thought it was a risk worth taking because I thought we had no time left. I am sure I will end up apologizing for it if it ultimately distracts the town from the real targets...but I thought it might help us.

Regarding your argument that you would not post so much if you were cult. Why don't you use that same logic for other guys. By your rationale, wouldn't the CL tell me to shut up too? Why does it work for you but not me.

Sorry, this game has been all over the place and I forgot that was a vote to avoid random lynch. Fact remains he dropped the hammer way before the deadline if I remember correctly and killed an innocent again.

Look, I'm lost, no doubt about it, but I havent been voting for people that have been talking for that fact, I just feel that the cult and scum are laying low. Thats why I voted Ace because I found his random vote scummy and the fact that all he does is summarize what everyone else is saying and then never returns bothers me. He is so off the register, it would be a brilliant cult recruit or he is playing the low key scum card.

Pesonally, I see going after someone like him who barely contributes is a good strategy. Put pressure on the guy, make him speak, and see what comes from it. Us going back and forth at each other isnt getting us any where. We right now are putting pressure on players that are active and have been beneficial to the town for the most part instead of going after guys like Ace and Fredo that barely post and all they post is summaries.

It bothers me that there is no talk around them at all.

I did not intend to be condescending so I apologize if my post came across more harshly than I meant it.

I really want to know if you read my summaries of the scrutiny-free guys and have anything to add. Things like that would benefit the town more than general observations. As I said at the time, I had trouble finding much so it would be good to get additional pairs of eyes looking at them.

And I am weary of the same things being said over and over about my reveal, from you and others. Naturally I acknowledge it looks scummy I asked to be converted, but I have explained what I was doing. And unless everyone is actually willing to lynch the town healer...we have only 24 hours to make up our minds on someone else. We need everyone contributing right now.

Same goes for Carlito and Marcellus. Claiming to be lovers - and we know neither of you is silenced today - then disappearing. Not helpful at all. Ace has been gone for a while too.

Of course I say this knowing the reason it's hard to get people contributing is because few of you, if there's even more than one besides me right now, are actually town-sided.

Wait, did I miss something, is the healer and the Doc the same thing? Didnt you claim Doc. And this is a serious question. I am not implying anything, just curious.

Also, from what I have been reading and what others have said, most set ups have one of the lovers mafia. And they both die if lynched. Most of us thought Tony M. was scum. Its very possible Marcellus another inactive was recruited by the cult. He is another smart recruit for the CL, an inactive player feeling no heat.

Marcellus, Fredo, Ace are all players if I were the CL, would be trying to recruit because they barely post and have no heat as potential lynch candidates. Its very possible 1 or 2 of them are currently cult.

[Tony Soprano]

The moment of Virgil's "claim," I went ballistic on him. I had wanted to lynch Joe the day before because I thought he was either cult, or had a weird role that was likely to kill someone at night. As soon as Virgil pulled his prank, I called for Joe to use his "power" (if he had one!) on Virgil that night. Then I said that he was setting himself up for a quick lynch.

Then I was the first to bring up a case against him as potential cult believing, as I do, that his play was a smarter one as cult than as town.

With friends like me, Virgil doesn't need enemies.

My only "alliance" with him now is the complete lack of stomach to lynch a claimed doc without a counter-claim. Am I a little nervous about that? Yes I am, but I really don't know what choice I have at this moment other to believe he's a townie who made a move I would not have in his position.

Virgil is not likely to be scum at all. He really would've been foolish to claim doc unless he knew the doc had already been converted, otherwise he'd be risking a counter-claim. I'll say it now, if there's a "real doc" out there, SPEAK UP!

But you trying to tie Virgil to me, and suggesting that he could be scum, all reeks of deflection from you and Jimmy. I said early on that the two of you could easily be cult partners, and nothing that's been said in this thread today has altered my opinion there. In fact, everything from the two of you today has only served to strengthen that opinion.

You can help to clear that up, though. You can vote for Conway.

I think I'll vote for you. I'd like to see you with some heat on you, for once.

Vote - Vito

[Fredo Corleone]

Well, in a game with Joe's crazy role claim, the two deaths night one, your unorthodox role claim, and the fruit brothers' claim, a complicated and risky gambit by you and Vito is not very far-fetched at all.

You be as condescending as you'd like Virgil. You're still very likely cult/scum.

Not to mention as soon as boy toy 1 and boy toy2 announced their engagement we haven't heard hide nor hair of them. Maybe you and I Tony should bang one another and then we can be above question too.

I don't have alot of time and will share more later but I honestly don't think Virgil is bull crapping about his reveal. The only way he could be if the Doc is too afraid to counter claim or he is cult and know the Doc is converted.

so Virgil as scum is a little unlikely.

The Don. He's been pretty clean all game, may want to say too clean, but not anything with him until his little thing with Virgil. But again, it seems they are sizing each other up. If they are in cahoots then they got me because I don't understand why they would. Again I have a hard time putting Virgil as anything but cult or Doc. Maybe both?

Jimmy? He's all over the damn place and very well might be cult. But again not sure if Im getting a scum vibe from him. He really seems like he's throwing **** against the fence and trying to get what sticks.

Tony Soprano. The comfortable court jester of the game. He spends more time in his alt outside the game then inside the game. He seem, to be taking to his character. This one might be a little scummy to me. He has just done enough to stay in the loop without really doing too much. Or drawing any negativce attention.

Ace hasn't really given us that muc either way and I could buy him being CL, cult or even scum.

The too sissy's are the ones that bug me the most. Just doesn't make sense they this couple could both be town especially after the first possible couple we lost the first night. I think they're betting on our un-williness to lynch a pair at this point.

Feel free to hit me up. I'll check back at about 6;30 and I'll be on tonight after work.

[Tony Soprano]

Not to mention as soon as boy toy 1 and boy toy2 announced their engagement we haven't heard hide nor hair of them. I Tony Maybe you and should bang one another and then we can be above question too.

I don't have alot of time and will share more later but I honestly don't think Virgil is bull crapping about his reveal. The only way he could be if the Doc is too afraid to counter claim or he is cult and know the Doc is converted.

so Virgil as scum is a little unlikely.

The Don. He's been pretty clean all game, may want to say too clean, but not anything with him until his little thing with Virgil. But again, it seems they are sizing each other up. If they are in cahoots then they got me because I don't understand why they would. Again I have a hard time putting Virgil as anything but cult or Doc. Maybe both?

Jimmy? He's all over the damn place and very well might be cult. But again not sure if Im getting a scum vibe from him. He really seems like he's throwing **** against the fence and trying to get what sticks.

Tony Soprano. The comfortable court jester of the game. He spends more time in his alt outside the game then inside the game. He seem, to be taking to his character. This one might be a little scummy to me. He has just done enough to stay in the loop without really doing too much. Or drawing any negativce attention.

Ace hasn't really given us that muc either way and I could buy him being CL, cult or even scum.

The too sissy's are the ones that bug me the most. Just doesn't make sense they this couple could both be town especially after the first possible couple we lost the first night. I think they're betting on our un-williness to lynch a pair at this point.

Feel free to hit me up. I'll check back at about 6;30 and I'll be on tonight after work.

You degenerate, wang-sniffing, stalker-pervert!

[Fredo Corleone]

You degenerate, wang-sniffing, stalker-pervert!

So. That's a yes?

[Vito Corleone]

Sorry, this game has been all over the place and I forgot that was a vote to avoid random lynch. Fact remains he dropped the hammer way before the deadline if I remember correctly and killed an innocent again.

Go back and read that entire day again. Not day phase, but that day. It won't take you long, because nothing was happening at all. No one was changing their vote. No one was talking about changing their vote. In fact, no one was talking at all!

I was very clear that I wanted Joe lynched, but that I would change my vote to avoid the random lynch if I had to. I waited until the last minute for me (which I'd also stated earlier), because I wasn't going to be able to get back to the game between then and the deadline. From the lack of any conversation going on, I didn't feel comfortable leaving it up to any other player in the game to make sure we avoided the random lynch.

Please, go back and read that. Then tell me what you think.

I think I'll vote for you. I'd like to see you with some heat on you, for once.

Vote - Vito

Such a compelling case! I'm going to have a tough time defending myself against this one.

Tony, I'm getting more and more confident that you're dirty. Trouble is that I'm not 100% on whether you're scum or cult. I'm guessing cult, maybe even CL. But I feel the case is just a little bit stronger against Jimmy right now.

If someone else wants to press a case against you between now and the deadline, I'd be willing to move my vote.

Jimmy, how about you?

[Vito Corleone]

Marcellus, Fredo, Ace are all players if I were the CL, would be trying to recruit because they barely post and have no heat as potential lynch candidates. Its very possible 1 or 2 of them are currently cult.

The only confirmed cult we have is Frank, and Frank was one of the more talkative players in the game. So it seems to me that the CL is not thinking this way. Hiding in plain sight guys who like to agree with others but really not contribute anything concrete seem like more likely cult converts to me - based on Frank as a model.

It's possible -maybe even probable- that one of them is cult. But I really like you and Tony as cult right now. The fact that you two are consistently avoiding talking about each other is painfully obvious.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Wait, did I miss something, is the healer and the Doc the same thing? Didnt you claim Doc. And this is a serious question. I am not implying anything, just curious.

Alright, I just went and reread. I was faded on Friday and seriously didnt comprehend aything that was going on, or mabye I told myself I read that whole page and I didnt. Anyway, somehow none of what was going on registered.

Virgil, can you explain your role, I'm confused. Are you the Healer or the Doc?

Go back and read that entire day again. Not day phase, but that day. It won't take you long, because nothing was happening at all. No one was changing their vote. No one was talking about changing their vote. In fact, no one was talking at all!

I was very clear that I wanted Joe lynched, but that I would change my vote to avoid the random lynch if I had to. I waited until the last minute for me (which I'd also stated earlier), because I wasn't going to be able to get back to the game between then and the deadline. From the lack of any conversation going on, I didn't feel comfortable leaving it up to any other player in the game to make sure we avoided the random lynch.

Please, go back and read that. Then tell me what you think.

We're good. Nothing really scummy about that hammer drop. It was a good decision. Sorry, I am just lost like a mother****er right now. And I have had like 4 straight nights of drinking. Im not comprehending well...lol. But I am caught up.

Such a compelling case! I'm going to have a tough time defending myself against this one.

Tony, I'm getting more and more confident that you're dirty. Trouble is that I'm not 100% on whether you're scum or cult. I'm guessing cult, maybe even CL. But I feel the case is just a little bit stronger against Jimmy right now.

If someone else wants to press a case against you between now and the deadline, I'd be willing to move my vote.

Jimmy, how about you?

I think Tony is very possibly scum as well. I said the earlier. I also think its no coincidence that EY was thinking he was scum. And I really dont like how you asked him to join you against me and how he voted for you. Very confusing.

The only confirmed cult we have is Frank, and Frank was one of the more talkative players in the game. So it seems to me that the CL is not thinking this way. Hiding in plain sight guys who like to agree with others but really not contribute anything concrete seem like more likely cult converts to me - based on Frank as a model.

It's possible -maybe even probable- that one of them is cult. But I really like you and Tony as cult right now. The fact that you two are consistently avoiding talking about each other is painfully obvious.

You know what you are right. Frank was very active, but thats why I keep saying its possible that he was converted and NK in the same night. Either way, its making me rethink everything.

Unvote

After rereading, I realize that I might be off on all my thoughts right now. Things look a lot different now after going back. Some things I said today, I dont neccessarily agree with now.

I would like to know more about the roles we have here. Im going to do some research on the roles and look back at Tony. I think that Tony could very well be either scum or cult.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count

Vito Corleone (1) - Tony Soprano

Jimmy Conway (1) - Vito Corleone

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch

[Marcellus Wallace]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lover

I didn't know who it was untill last night which is why I never tried to help Carlito before. Each night I submitted a name to Doggin to try to find my lover. Carlito could do the same and he finally found me last night.

And the links say Goon and Cop. So are you guys saying you are both innocent little homos? Doesnt Goon mean, scum? And if one of you is cop, have you been getting investigations?

He told me he protown. Thats all I have to go on. If he is scum which I doubt we need to hold off killing him. If we kill town of scum today theres a really good chance that its game over and the cult wins.

I re-read the mod pm. He's definitely a townie.

Marcellus is correct about our role, previously we had a restriction on us not to even hint at the role, but that was before we found each other; the mod has since informed us that we can in fact reveal our roles since we're no longer looking for each other.

According to the Mod PM Marcellus is definitely pro-town, and he did ask me earlier if I was cult, so that leads me to believe he's not. Do keep in mind, neither of us had any reason to lie to each other, seeing as in order for one of us to live both of us have to, and at the time when we asked about it we had not had the restriction of revealing our role lifted yet.

I'm not cult, I've been in the hot seat for a very long time, so I would be a terrible person for the scum to pick up, and I think that Frank safely confirmed with his death that I wasn't cult before that.

So both of you are saying in your PM, Doggin told you that you have found your lover and he is protown.

If you were looking for each other every night, when you put in names that wasnt your lover, what would you get back from Doggin? I am not looking for you to reveal any info that would help scum or cult, just what did he say?

I guess Im not understanding your role and place in the game if you guys are just innocent lovers. That seems pointless to put you in the game. There has to be a catch.

[Tony Soprano]

Go back and read that entire day again. Not day phase, but that day. It won't take you long, because nothing was happening at all. No one was changing their vote. No one was talking about changing their vote. In fact, no one was talking at all!

I was very clear that I wanted Joe lynched, but that I would change my vote to avoid the random lynch if I had to. I waited until the last minute for me (which I'd also stated earlier), because I wasn't going to be able to get back to the game between then and the deadline. From the lack of any conversation going on, I didn't feel comfortable leaving it up to any other player in the game to make sure we avoided the random lynch.

Please, go back and read that. Then tell me what you think.

Such a compelling case! I'm going to have a tough time defending myself against this one.

Tony, I'm getting more and more confident that you're dirty. Trouble is that I'm not 100% on whether you're scum or cult. I'm guessing cult, maybe even CL. But I feel the case is just a little bit stronger against Jimmy right now.

If someone else wants to press a case against you between now and the deadline, I'd be willing to move my vote.

Jimmy, how about you?

No Don, I'm a roleless townie. I just honestly am vaguely suspicious of just about evevryone at this point. I think all the weird reveals and roles has most people back on their heels. Do you think there's an especially strong case on anyone right now.

We've wasted a lot of time, votes, lynches, and maybe any chance to win the game by going after the wrong people. There's definitely a couple, maybe 3 , slowplaying scums/cult that are just laughing their asses off at us right now.

[Fredo Corleone]

No Don, I'm a roleless townie. I just honestly am vaguely suspicious of just about evevryone at this point. I think all the weird reveals and roles has most people back on their heels. Do you think there's an especially strong case on anyone right now.

We've wasted a lot of time, votes, lynches, and maybe any chance to win the game by going after the wrong people. There's definitely a couple, maybe 3 , slowplaying scums/cult that are just laughing their asses off at us right now.

Wow, Soprano you actually contributed. No doubt here. They haven't said a peep since they revealed. Even Marcellous hasn't showed up with his customary first vote and quick retreat. Now he sits back and will drop the hammer as soon as we go ahead get anxious at put someone at risk.

i find everyone a little shady as of now. Vito, Jimmy, even the DOC? has me nervous. You I really can't get a read on. Your play seems awfully cavalier for teamate play. Yet, you have been doing the scum slow play minor contribution route. Yet may just be your style.

Ace is another one that is not giving me much of a read. I've been waiting for him to come out with something all game. Not sure what to think. Maybe cult hiding out.

It seems to me that by definition the cult would lay low. Except maybe the leader. Yet, Frank was very active. This is what lead me to believe he was a late convert. Or the cult leader may not have too much control. Not sure.

[Fredo Corleone]

And the links say Goon and Cop. So are you guys saying you are both innocent little homos? Doesnt Goon mean, scum? And if one of you is cop, have you been getting investigations?

So both of you are saying in your PM, Doggin told you that you have found your lover and he is protown.

If you were looking for each other every night, when you put in names that wasnt your lover, what would you get back from Doggin? I am not looking for you to reveal any info that would help scum or cult, just what did he say?

I guess Im not understanding your role and place in the game if you guys are just innocent lovers. That seems pointless to put you in the game. There has to be a catch.

Jimmy? The point here is I really believe that MY brother, may he rest in peace and Nicky where the first couple. Why would they be cop and goon but these two are both innocent? Makes no sense. not to mention they also could be converted. Yet, they get a free pass to sit back and anal-yze everyones else move. Marcelous hasn't been seen since the time they revealed. Remeber this? He put the first vote on the last couple votes. Yet now, he is just sitting back.

Sounds like team coached play to me. One of them has to be dirty.

[Ace Rothstein]

In response to me losing track of the days...

That just sounds like you arent reading up on posts and that would be easy to do if you were scum/cult that hasnt had any heat on him whatsoever and is the least active person in the game. I dont know what you are, you could be the Tooth Fairy with all the strange roles in this game, for all I know, but I think pressuring you is a good idea.

2 quotes asking for my case is "repeatedly"...that isnt my definition of the word, but o.k. You werent lying. I honestly couldnt remember anyone other than Joe asking to hear more.

Sorry, this game has been all over the place and I forgot that was a vote to avoid random lynch. Fact remains he dropped the hammer way before the deadline if I remember correctly and killed an innocent again.

Alright, I just went and reread. I was faded on Friday and seriously didnt comprehend aything that was going on, or mabye I told myself I read that whole page and I didnt. Anyway, somehow none of what was going on registered.

So why is it ok for you to forget or miss things but when I think I've got 24 hours more than I really did its some sort of scum tell?

And for the record my vote on Carlito was not random. I'd voted for him during the previous day phase and the 2nd time I voted for him, while poorly timed, was for the exact same reason as the previous day (he had still not explained the post where he collected a bunch of Lefty's posts and declared he thought him innocent). Since Joe was the Village Idiot, did he even have the power to silence Carlito? All the mafia wiki says about the role is they "habitually say the wrong thing", nothing about night powers...

So tell me something else Jimmy, why is my "random" vote of Carlito suspicious yet you haven't said a word about Soprano voting for Vito without so much as pretending to offer an explanation?

[Fredo Corleone]

In response to me losing track of the days...

So why is it ok for you to forget or miss things but when I think I've got 24 hours more than I really did its some sort of scum tell?

And for the record my vote on Carlito was not random. I'd voted for him during the previous day phase and the 2nd time I voted for him, while poorly timed, was for the exact same reason as the previous day (he had still not explained the post where he collected a bunch of Lefty's posts and declared he thought him innocent). Since Joe was the Village Idiot, did he even have the power to silence Carlito? All the mafia wiki says about the role is they "habitually say the wrong thing", nothing about night powers...

So tell me something else Jimmy, why is my "random" vote of Carlito suspicious yet you haven't said a word about Soprano voting for Vito without so much as pretending to offer an explanation?

Ace, nice to see you. So tell me, how do you feel about nutpuppy 1 and nutpuppy 2? Do you think their reveal as lover is legit? Do you think if they are lovers are they scum? Mafia? I think one of them has to be dirty. Carlito was silenced by the village idiot and again is silence by Marcellous tool in his mouth? Marcellous has lead the last two lynches with a vote and then disapeared till the next day phase. Now since the professed their backdoor love, neither one has been around.

[Marcellus Wallace]

In response to me losing track of the days...

So why is it ok for you to forget or miss things but when I think I've got 24 hours more than I really did its some sort of scum tell?

And for the record my vote on Carlito was not random. I'd voted for him during the previous day phase and the 2nd time I voted for him, while poorly timed, was for the exact same reason as the previous day (he had still not explained the post where he collected a bunch of Lefty's posts and declared he thought him innocent). Since Joe was the Village Idiot, did he even have the power to silence Carlito? All the mafia wiki says about the role is they "habitually say the wrong thing", nothing about night powers...

So tell me something else Jimmy, why is my "random" vote of Carlito suspicious yet you haven't said a word about Soprano voting for Vito without so much as pretending to offer an explanation?

I am not the only one that thought your vote on Carlito was strange. And its not that I was totally against the concept of voting Carlito, he was scummy to me as well as to many others. The timing of the vote just didnt make sense, it was useless at that point. Thats why a bunch of players called you out immediately after you dropped that vote.

The difference between me and you in this situation is that I actually did read, I just was faded and didnt comprehend or possibly thought I read up and didnt the morning after my B-Day. Check out when all that went down, it was right when my B-Day started and I woke up that next morning after 4 hours of drunken sleep. I just didnt comprehend well. At least I went back and got caught up and refocused my thoughts because clearly I missed some important stuff.

You on the other hand, just drop randomness and sometimes it looks as if you arent reading up. For example, here you are calling me out on not acknowledging the Tony S. random vote when I clearly did just about 5 posts above #1736. I actually address it twice in that post. I specifically said that it was strange and that I wanted to go back and look at Tony, which I did.

Here's what I noticed, Tony has probably thrown around more votes than anyone else in this game. He also had some very interesting exchanges that I plan on going back and posting for all to see, there are some posts that are interesting.

I still want to hear from our role claimers and gets some questions from them. I am not totally clear on the claims and we need to get some conversation going around their roles.

[Vito Corleone]

Ace, nice to see you. So tell me, how do you feel about nutpuppy 1 and nutpuppy 2? Do you think their reveal as lover is legit? Do you think if they are lovers are they scum? Mafia? I think one of them has to be dirty. Carlito was silenced by the village idiot and again is silence by Marcellous tool in his mouth? Marcellous has lead the last two lynches with a vote and then disapeared till the next day phase. Now since the professed their backdoor love, neither one has been around.

The fact that they've put the "do not disturb" sign on their bedroom door since they found each other is definitely disturbing. I was never thrilled with the idea of Joe silencing Carlito on the first day, absolutely hated it on the second day, and now they both seem to have been gagged. Not good.

So what are the options with them?

1.) They could be exactly what they say they are - two innocent players who'll both die if one gets killed.

2.) Could be that they started that way, but that one (or both) has been converted to cult.

3.) They could be the forbidden variety: one town, one scum. But if that's the case, and the town half knows it, he should take the opportunity now to help the town by speaking up. It might be possible that Doggin set the game up with lovers of that type, and also didn't tell the townie that his lover's scum. Because as we all know, Doggin sucks.

4.) It could be that their whole story is BS, and that they're scum or cult partners. Tying themselves together to get us to not vote for either of them out of fear that lynching one will result in two dead innocents - and us losing the game.

Any other options?

[Marcellus Wallace]

I don't really see Joe's case on lefty, after re-reading. I think a Joe Sonny scum/cult team is not far fetched at all. Mosty I like Joe as scum b/c I feel he is pushing a very weak case. Of course, he could just be wrong, and not scum. Or, of course, he could be right about Lefty afterall.

Sonny has seemed scummy for quite a while. I think we may look back after the game is over and see that EY stopping the Sonny lynch was a town-killer.

My vote is staying on Sonny, but I am eager for Carlito's return also, and more Lefty-Joe battling.

I think his story reeks. What saves him is that we know there is not much upside to pulling this as scum/cult, unless it's part of a multi-layered gambit, which is what I would actually put my money on.

Um, so far EY and Sonny have both been right on everything that's been revealed...

See, I'd rather act like a girl, and be right, than act like a 'man' and be wrong. Ultimately, my death helped the town. Have YOU helped the town?

Alright, these are the post after looking back at Tony S. that really jump out at me. He was defending Lefty pretty strongly when even before the reveal of Joe, Lefty was a target.

I pointed out earlier that he has probably flip flopped votes more than anyone in this game and has been, if I'm not mistaken, part of every successful lynch train that has started. He is really just going with the flow and taking what he can, a bit of scum tell right there. I dont think he has come up with a single case on his own (this has been mentioned) but when you see the timing of his votes, they are always right when the train is starting to gain numbers.

His exchange with EY is concerning. There was a lot going on and he was ignoring it to battle with EY who was dead. The reason why this bothers me is because EY had said that he was potential scum/cult before he died. It was almost like Tony remembered it and was battling to prove why EY was wrong about what he did just incase someone went back and noticed EY called him out as someone to watch when he died. EY is a pretty good finder in the game, I think Tony was worried about it and thats why during a crucial part of the game he decided to battle EY instead of help us figure out all the strange reveals that were taking place.

[Tony Soprano]

In response to me losing track of the days...

So why is it ok for you to forget or miss things but when I think I've got 24 hours more than I really did its some sort of scum tell?

And for the record my vote on Carlito was not random. I'd voted for him during the previous day phase and the 2nd time I voted for him, while poorly timed, was for the exact same reason as the previous day (he had still not explained the post where he collected a bunch of Lefty's posts and declared he thought him innocent). Since Joe was the Village Idiot, did he even have the power to silence Carlito? All the mafia wiki says about the role is they "habitually say the wrong thing", nothing about night powers...

So tell me something else Jimmy, why is my "random" vote of Carlito suspicious yet you haven't said a word about Soprano voting for Vito without so much as pretending to offer an explanation?

Now Jimmy, I was very honest here. I said I don't really have anything on the, other than his game long slickness and a desire to see some heat on him for the first time.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Alright, I just went and reread. I was faded on Friday and seriously didnt comprehend aything that was going on, or mabye I told myself I read that whole page and I didnt. Anyway, somehow none of what was going on registered.

Virgil, can you explain your role, I'm confused. Are you the Healer or the Doc?

I am the town healer, meaning each night phase I can protect one person from both NKs and cult conversions.

I understand the confusion...I initially claimed as the doctor (only able to protect against NKs) in an attempt to get the cult to waste a conversion attempt on me. Whether it worked remains to be seen but at least we know the cult did not successfully convert every night, since we are still playing.

[Tony Soprano]

The fact that they've put the "do not disturb" sign on their bedroom door since they found each other is definitely disturbing. I was never thrilled with the idea of Joe silencing Carlito on the first day, absolutely hated it on the second day, and now they both seem to have been gagged. Not good.

So what are the options with them?

1.) They could be exactly what they say they are - two innocent players who'll both die if one gets killed.

2.) Could be that they started that way, but that one (or both) has been converted to cult.

3.) They could be the forbidden variety: one town, one scum. But if that's the case, and the town half knows it, he should take the opportunity now to help the town by speaking up. It might be possible that Doggin set the game up with lovers of that type, and also didn't tell the townie that his lover's scum. Because as we all know, Doggin sucks.

4.) It could be that their whole story is BS, and that they're scum or cult partners. Tying themselves together to get us to not vote for either of them out of fear that lynching one will result in two dead innocents - and us losing the game.

Any other options?

If they really are fanooks, is it possible that one or both were town and then one converted, which got them both converted to the cult?

[Marcellus Wallace]

I am the town healer, meaning each night phase I can protect one person from both NKs and cult conversions.

I understand the confusion...I initially claimed as the doctor (only able to protect against NKs) in an attempt to get the cult to waste a conversion attempt on me. Whether it worked remains to be seen but at least we know the cult did not successfully convert every night, since we are still playing.

Thanks for clarifying that. After looking back and reading what you have posted, you seem squeaky clean which is scary cause you might have the town by the balls.

Have you been protecting yourself every night? Obviously the scum hasnt tried to NK you at this point, but we dont know if the cult has tried to convert you. Would Doggin let you know if you have been attempted to be recruited?

If they really are fanooks, is it possible that one or both were town and then one converted, which got them both converted to the cult?

Its a beautiful cop out, and we havent heard from them since, and I would really like some answers to my questions. What I have read on lovers and siblings doesnt really give you a clear answer to what they can do and how they win.

Once again, its just crazy to think that Carlito is going to avoid a lynch again. I still think he is scum. I could see the pontential that thelovers arent honest with each other because they dont want to hurt each others feelings or something like that...afterall they are fags.

Vito, I think you nailed all the options, my next question is, if we lynch how does it affect the game? What will we learn? I just know Doggin and I dont see any point for him to put 2 fags in the game and they are both innocent. It makes no sense to include them if they are just 2 little innocent homo's that have no bearing on the game.