Avatar Mafia Game Thread

[Fredo Corleone]

Basically, she ****ed us over. She wasn't kidding when she said she sucked as a townie. She had to have known about this.

This is misleading as hell - and an obvious attempt to glom onto other players who don't see the reason Soprano had to go. Scummish.

[Fredo Corleone]

So basically, it needs to go like this:

Lynch me. Get me off the board.

Use whatever info you get from me, and form the nightkill to triangulate the mafia.

Everyone should agree on a lynch choice before voting at all. Just discuss it. You can keep a tally on who wants to vote for a player, just like a vote count, but with no votes.

When a majority is reached, everyone casts that vote, and do not wait for the condemned to speak. do not unvote.

This is the only way to protect the Avatar.

You ought to be able to smoke the mafia out pretty quick. Lefty is my #1 choice to start.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

First things first - I'm guessing that we've just seen a role used that adds an extra lynch to the Day phase.

It would make the most sense that this was a mafia role, and that they want to cut down on the info that the town can gain by going through two lynches and two NK's. I'm not positve about all that, but it would make the most sense in terms of balance.

The more I think about it, she didn't really **** us over, and she was right to want to be lynched in a way. Just 100% wrong in first revealing and playing selfishly like I said earlier. It's actually a pretty good town power. I'm not sure why you think it was a scum power. Ridiculous theory # 5 is it? Why would scum have a power to essentially give up their night kill? You're off the reservation like I said. I'm not sure if you've even come up with one good idea yet, you're all over the place.

[Fredo Corleone]

The more I think about it, she didn't really **** us over, and she was right to want to be lynched in a way. Just 100% wrong in first revealing and playing selfishly like I said earlier. It's actually a pretty good town power. I'm not sure why you think it was a scum power. Ridiculous theory # 5 is it? Why would scum have a power to essentially give up their night kill? You're off the reservation like I said. I'm not sure if you've even come up with one good idea yet, you're all over the place.

I've seen fewer waffles at a breakfast buffet.

It wasn't her power. It was another person, I'm guessing mafia, who activated their role.

I'm also fairly sure that she did not try to mislead the game once she got her feet underneath her. She probably did have a fire vs. fire power that would have hurt the mafia if they tired to NK her - all the more reason to hasten a lynch.

But by all means, tell us how you think an extra lynch would be a good power for the town

Anyway, everything you say is scummy, and you're flashing one of your biggest tells in bright neon. Whenever you get mad, or nervous, you panic post, and you don't stop.

The best part is that you seem to think I need help getting myself lynched - but don't worry, Scumplestiltskin, Your turn is coming. heh

[Ace Rothstein]

First things first - I'm guessing that we've just seen a role used that adds an extra lynch to the Day phase.

It would make the most sense that this was a mafia role, and that they want to cut down on the info that the town can gain by going through two lynches and two NK's. I'm not positve about all that, but it would make the most sense in terms of balance.

It makes no sense that it would be a mafia role. Mafia want to get to the night phase ASAP to submit another NK, they don't want to put it off.

And I am concerned about offing townies.

I'm pretty convinced that you're town at this point, but I can't say I agree with most of your ideas.

So basically, it needs to go like this:

Lynch me. Get me off the board.

Use whatever info you get from me, and form the nightkill to triangulate the mafia.

Everyone should agree on a lynch choice before voting at all. Just discuss it. You can keep a tally on who wants to vote for a player, just like a vote count, but with no votes.

When a majority is reached, everyone casts that vote, and do not wait for the condemned to speak. do not unvote.

This is the only way to protect the Avatar.

You ought to be able to smoke the mafia out pretty quick. Lefty is my #1 choice to start.

I completely disagree with this. We can't volunteer to drop a fourth straight townie, especially one with a role. Your roleblocks could come in handy. And if scum is worried about them, let them NK you - you want to be lynched anyway, so who cares? I'd rather they NK you than the Avatar. If they'd rather shoot for the Avatar every night, you can maybe slow them down.

We need to target scum with this lynch. I understand that this game is different with the instant win condition, but it still benefits the town to have townies survive.

I understand the value of running potential vote tallies rather than casting actual votes. That's one idea I think we should run with.

With that in mind, I'm willing to vote Lefty.

[Fredo Corleone]

And as far as the whacked out theories go - I will always say when they are theories, and will not try to sway the game with them. It's just how I think, it's how I build games, and it's because I'm slightly off-my-rocker, usually to Doggin's amusement.

But if it was my game, I would totally include a Mafia Dayfinder. No one would be looking for it, and think of what the town would need to overcome somethign like that. But that's for another game.

For the rest of this game, I'll cut the theories down so that I'm not more of a town liability.

But when I say I'm sure, I'm sure.

[Fredo Corleone]

It makes no sense that it would be a mafia role. Mafia want to get to the night phase ASAP to submit another NK, they don't want to put it off.

Actually, it makes perfect sense, especially at the beginning of the game when I have already volunteered for the lynch. It's like a free kill.

And I am concerned about offing townies.

I'm pretty convinced that you're town at this point, but I can't say I agree with most of your ideas.

I completely disagree with this. We can't volunteer to drop a fourth straight townie, especially one with a role. Your roleblocks could come in handy. And if scum is worried about them, let them NK you - you want to be lynched anyway, so who cares? I'd rather they NK you than the Avatar. If they'd rather shoot for the Avatar every night, you can maybe slow them down.

We need to target scum with this lynch. I understand that this game is different with the instant win condition, but it still benefits the town to have townies survive.

I understand the value of running potential vote tallies rather than casting actual votes. That's one idea I think we should run with.

With that in mind, I'm willing to vote Lefty.

I understand - it's not an easy idea to get used to, but you have to look at it from a stretegic point of view. The further into the game we get, the more of a liability I am to the Avatar.

It doesn't matter that a few townies are going to die - that's how the game goes - but with our finder and our healer down, we're starting at a huge disadvantage, and we can't afford to take any more chances.

[Marcellus Wallace]

vote lefty

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Actually, it makes perfect sense, especially at the beginning of the game when I have already volunteered for the lynch. It's like a free kill.

It makes no sense as a mafia power.

Without the role, we would be at day 3, with 14 players, and minus 2 townies, possibly including the Avatar or another safeguard role.

With the role, we are at day 2, with 15 players and minus 1 townie.

Why would scum want to do that?

We should have lynched you before Soprano, you're nothing but a distraction.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Actually, it makes perfect sense, especially at the beginning of the game when I have already volunteered for the lynch. It's like a free kill.

So now you want to be lynched?

[Lefty Ruggerio]

It makes no sense as a mafia power.

Without the role, we would be at day 3, with 14 players, and minus 2 townies, possibly including the Avatar or another safeguard role.

With the role, we are at day 2, with 15 players and minus 1 townie.

Why would scum want to do that?

We should have lynched you before Soprano, you're nothing but a distraction.

Got the numbers wrong, should be 16 and 17 not 14 and 15.

[Ace Rothstein]

Didn't you just say you were gonna cut down on the theorizing?

Actually, it makes perfect sense, especially at the beginning of the game when I have already volunteered for the lynch. It's like a free kill.

Honestly, it makes no sense. Where do they want to be when we're undergoing our third lynch vote? Up three townies or four?

The fact that the town has a role blocker tells us the mafia have roles. So not only do they want to get another NK in, but they have info to gather thru their roles, too. Probably a watcher/tracker, maybe a roleblocker of their own, who knows what else.

No way do they want us having another chance to lynch scum before they get their own night actions in. This is a town role, probably the result of Soprano's lynch.

I understand - it's not an easy idea to get used to, but you have to look at it from a stretegic point of view. The further into the game we get, the more of a liability I am to the Avatar.

It doesn't matter that a few townies are going to die - that's how the game goes - but with our finder and our healer down, we're starting at a huge disadvantage, and we can't afford to take any more chances.

I hear what you're saying, and I understand. But they already know who's scum and who's not. Lynching you doesn't cut down on the number of players they're looking at as the avatar. They're looking at 12 (presumably) potential avatars. We lynch you, they're still looking at the same 12 players - but their numbers have gotten better. We lynch scum, they're looking at the same 12 but our numbers are better.

Killing the avatar isn't the only way they win. They can win in the traditional way, too. We need live townies. Let them worry about your role tonight, and as long as you're alive. Let's try to lynch scum now, and every lynch. That's the path to winning.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

I can't really see the mafia wanting an extra lynch. They are at risk of getting lynched. They are not at risk of getting NKed. So, that being said, they'd rather the night phases than an extra lynch. IMHO.

Also... who's to say Fredo is telling the truth about being a townie roleblocker? The best lies have a bit of truth to them? I do believe our Mod loves that phrase... or it might have been DPR? Perhaps he IS a roleblocker.. but not an innocent one. Don't be content that he is innocent just because he offered himself up for a lynch. Look how many of us are hesitant to vote him now even with the argument that he'd be a liability to the town and the Avatar if he was kept alive.

[Fredo Corleone]

I can't really see the mafia wanting an extra lynch. They are at risk of getting lynched. They are not at risk of getting NKed. So, that being said, they'd rather the night phases than an extra lynch. IMHO.

Also... who's to say Fredo is telling the truth about being a townie roleblocker? The best lies have a bit of truth to them? I do believe our Mod loves that phrase... or it might have been DPR? Perhaps he IS a roleblocker.. but not an innocent one. Don't be content that he is innocent just because he offered himself up for a lynch. Look how many of us are hesitant to vote him now even with the argument that he'd be a liability to the town and the Avatar if he was kept alive.

Then lynch me.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, so just let it be noted that I think that Soprano did nothing to extend the lynch - and that it was a mafia who did.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

They didn't extend it. Whoever or whatever reason for it.. we have TWO lynches in one day. Again, I digress, why would the mafia want two lynches? They are not immune to those.. but they aren't likely to nk themselves so they, in my opinion, would rather have the night phase. Expecially with a finder role gone and no guarentee we have another one out there they don't have a whole lot to fear at night now.

[Fredo Corleone]

Ready for a whacky theory? And it's not really a theory, it's just a note on game balancing.

In a game with many roles - and I think we all agree that this is one of those games - it's fine to give people straight forward roles. A finder investigates, a healer protects, a vig kills.

But it's more fun, and more of a puzzle, if you mix it up and make the powers more of a catch 22. Doggin specializes in this, hence my comments at the beginning of the game.

Knowing that, what are the chances that this is a straight forward game where a normally enhanced mafia team go against a normally enhanced town, but with the twist that killing the Avatar results in a mafia win?

It makes perfect sense to give people powers that would seem useless until they learned the situation that they could be used in - does that sound familiar to anyone? Are you thinking "when in the hell am I supposed to use my power?". Well, the answer is, as the game plays out, and you leanr more, you'll realize when and what you are supposed to do.

So, again, don't trap yourselves into thinking that this has to be like every other game. It's not - we already have proof of that. Our best bet at a town win is for people to chill, watch carefully for scum beahvior, and not give away too much as we gather information.

If you have a strange power - don't use it until it makes sense.

If you see soemthing that doesn't make sense - like a day that goes on even after the lynch, think about why that may happen. What would be the reason behind it?

I'll tell you that Soprano would have phrased her power differently if it was to extend a day by another lynch. She caught on at the end, and leading the town to believe anything else would have hurt the town.

[Fredo Corleone]

Hey, also, no one is taking into account what Doggin said about Day Actions inthe opening post. What happened was a Day Action, IMO, and in this case, it served the mafia best because you had two townies up for the lynch.

[Henry Hill]

I don't know why everyone is giving Tony heat because she said her role and you all were still ok for the lynch.

I think that was a well planned out move y whoever used it. To go ahead and lynch the leading player. That way we can lynch Lefty today, or we can run the lynch on Fredo and not have a wasted lynch tomorrow.

Fredo please minimize the dramatics of wanting death, I am not in a melancholy mood, and if your theory about Lefty proves true, I look forward to having you in this game for a while to come.

Plus upon a reread Lefty instantly jumped out of the gate somewhat discrediting marcellus when marcelllus said something about the mafia having a finder.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Why didn't I lie about my role when I was revealing? Because it never crossed my mind to do so. Townies=honest where I come from, unless your name is DPR.

That's the one thing I will take away from this game. I'll start lying, regardless of alignment, because it goes over better. All this attention on me (and yes, I KNOW I brought it on myself) is keeping the scum very happy because it's not on them. I f***ed up bad. I'd suggest that you either lynch me and lose a townie or move on to someone else. But we can't keep this up and do it on day three, too. Whoever suggested lynching Fredo today and then looking at me again tomorrow - I don't like that idea. If you're going to lynch me, I think it's in the town's best interest to get it over with.

You guys are gonna think I'm nuts (well, more than you already do) but Fredo makes a lot of sense. I don't like losing two more townies, but better that than running up votes on everybody but the Avatar. His power is more useful than mine, and you will gain some decent info from my death. I'd actually recommend lynching me first. I CANNOT believe I'm saying that, but yeah, that's my advice. Get me to L-1 and I'll follow with the hammer on myself.

I would say it was most likely her role based on her insistance to be lynched first. Giving herself up first was the smart move knowing there would be another lynch.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

I don't know why everyone is giving Tony heat because she said her role and you all were still ok for the lynch.

I think that was a well planned out move y whoever used it. To go ahead and lynch the leading player. That way we can lynch Lefty today, or we can run the lynch on Fredo and not have a wasted lynch tomorrow.

Fredo please minimize the dramatics of wanting death, I am not in a melancholy mood, and if your theory about Lefty proves true, I look forward to having you in this game for a while to come.

Plus upon a reread Lefty instantly jumped out of the gate somewhat discrediting marcellus when marcelllus said something about the mafia having a finder.

What are you trying to say? That because I thought the mafia finder idea was terrible, I'm scum? People aren't jumping on the lynch as fast as you like, you want to add more fuel to the fire to see if you can make it go faster?

[Vito Corleone]

Why does everyone seemingly want to die? Soprano first, then she didn't, then she did. Then Fredo. Now Lefty (because quite frankly, trying to suggest a no-vote when you've got 3 on you already isn't exactly helping your case).

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Why does everyone seemingly want to die? Soprano first, then she didn't, then she did. Then Fredo. Now Lefty (because quite frankly, trying to suggest a no-vote when you've got 3 on you already isn't exactly helping your case).

It was a bad idea, I'll admit that, and I realized that not long after bringing it up.

Tbh, I was looking forward to getting some information from the night kill. At first I thought lynching her was basically a waste in the same way that Fredo is thinking about it now. So I figured that if we could vote to not lynch today, it would be like it never happened, and we just went into the night phase like normal. Then I realized that it wasn't a bad thing that we didn't enter the night phase, but a good thing because scum lost their night kill.

[Fredo Corleone]

It was a bad idea, I'll admit that, and I realized that not long after bringing it up.

Tbh, I was looking forward to getting some information from the night kill. At first I thought lynching her was basically a waste in the same way that Fredo is thinking about it now. So I figured that if we could vote to not lynch today, it would be like it never happened, and we just went into the night phase like normal. Then I realized that it wasn't a bad thing that we didn't enter the night phase, but a good thing because scum lost their night kill.

"Not long after" being 3 minutes. That's the equivilant of "Oh sh*t".

Do not try and twist what I've said. Your the second person to do it, and it's a scum move. My position is clear, and if anyone needs me to explain it again, I will.

Wrong. It's still D2. The scum didn't lose anything. They just gain an extra lynch. That's why I said it was a scum power.

Lefty, you are flailing. Basically, you are going to die unless you have some great insight to the game that you've been hiding.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

How are you so positive it's a scum power? They are at risk of being lynched. They have no fear of being night killed. Sure they can try to lead a lynch on another innocent... shall we look at who jumped right up on starting another lynch when they found we had another one this game day? Shall we look at who voted even after it was suggested multiple times to talk it out who we all agree to vote instead of just jumping on votes?

[Carlito Brigante]

I think its very possible we could have a priest in this game and a few people know this If you get my drift.

My vote stays on Henry Hill

Also Doggin why did we not get an opening story for this game ? or did I somehow miss this/

Is it possible there is no Mafia group and just singular evil entities with NK powers ?

[Ace Rothstein]

It's still D2. The scum didn't lose anything. They just gain an extra lynch. That's why I said it was a scum power.

Fredo, your hair-brained theories don't help anything.

The only way the towns wins any game of Mafia is by lynching Mafia. The scum didn't not gain an extra lynch, the town did. Just because we suck so far at lynching scum doesn't mean that another lynch is to their advantage. It certainly shouldn't be.

And, frankly, it doesn't matter. We have another lynch today. Let's lynch scum.

I wouldn't post I had a computer problem, unless asked unless it were true. You claim I am a newb breaking a lurking decorum but I am far more experienced then that.

I had the alt password saved to my computer, and I accidentally deleted the last character on the password. I tried copying and pasting it, but with the last character gone it wouldn't log me in.

So I followed the game until I got the issue sorted out.

Not for nothing Henry, but this is seriously weak. It took you four days to figure out that you screwed up the password? I would've had a PM into Doggin after the first couple login fails. I think most people would have.

[Oscar 'Snaps' Provalone]

Then lynch me.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, so just let it be noted that I think that Soprano did nothing to extend the lynch - and that it was a mafia who did.

Your latest wacky theory is not as wacky as others.

But here's a thought: WHY DON'T WE START LYNCHING MAFIA?

This "lynch me" stuff is moronic. Hello?!!? The mafia wins the conventional way as well. So the mafia can win in the end with the avatar still alive.

We have 3 townies dead and you (a claimed townie) is telling people to lynch you. That would put the town down 4. A successful NK tonight puts the town down 5.

That would leave 15 players with 5 mafia. That's not a good place to be in starting day 3.

So why don't you focus on actually getting mafia. Soprano played stupidly and her final move was probably the stupidest of all. We should move on and stop with this "lynch me I'm townie" crap and start going after mafia.

I like the move against Lefty. You have any other options--that actually include going after mafia--then do that.

[Joe Cabot]

"Not long after" being 3 minutes. That's the equivilant of "Oh sh*t".

Do not try and twist what I've said. Your the second person to do it, and it's a scum move. My position is clear, and if anyone needs me to explain it again, I will.

Wrong. It's still D2. The scum didn't lose anything. They just gain an extra lynch. That's why I said it was a scum power.

Lefty, you are flailing. Basically, you are going to die unless you have some great insight to the game that you've been hiding.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! We get it Fredo, we get it.

[Carlito Brigante]

So now you want to be lynched?

Both he and Soprano have been saying that for a while which leads me to believe they know something we do not know as I alluded to in my last post

As for you Ace once again you have a whole lot to say with nothing to back it up like a vote on who your actully focusing on. You made yet another good point on Henry Hill being scum yet still no one is jumping on to what we assume to be lieing Scum.

[Carlito Brigante]

Your latest wacky theory is not as wacky as others.

But here's a thought: WHY DON'T WE START LYNCHING MAFIA?

This "lynch me" stuff is moronic. Hello?!!? The mafia wins the conventional way as well. So the mafia can win in the end with the avatar still alive.

We have 3 townies dead and you (a claimed townie) is telling people to lynch you. That would put the town down 4. A successful NK tonight puts the town down 5.

That would leave 15 players with 5 mafia. That's not a good place to be in starting day 3.

So why don't you focus on actually getting mafia. Soprano played stupidly and her final move was probably the stupidest of all. We should move on and stop with this "lynch me I'm townie" crap and start going after mafia.

I like the move against Lefty. You have any other options--that actually include going after mafia--then do that.

What makes you so sure their are 5 mafia ?

Im not so sure there is even a mafia group yet.

[Oscar 'Snaps' Provalone]

What makes you so sure their are 5 mafia ?

Im not so sure there is even a mafia group yet.

The default mafia setup is 25% scum. So that's 3/12, 4/16, and 5/20. There were 20 players in this game.

Plus, from the source material we know that the Fire Nation were the main bad guys. So we can assume that (with perhaps certain exception like Soprano's character) the scum team is made up of Fire Nation people.

[Oscar 'Snaps' Provalone]

^^^ To add, right now it doesn't matter that there is a scum team because the town has been doing the scum's job thus far in lynching 2 power roles.

[Ace Rothstein]

As for you Ace once again you have a whole lot to say with nothing to back it up like a vote on who your actully focusing on. You made yet another good point on Henry Hill being scum yet still no one is jumping on to what we assume to be lieing Scum.

Pay attention, Carlito:

I understand the value of running potential vote tallies rather than casting actual votes. That's one idea I think we should run with.

With that in mind, I'm willing to vote Lefty.

If you don't see the benefit of that, I don't know what to tell you. I don't feel like holding your hand on this one.

Is it possible there is no Mafia group and just singular evil entities with NK powers ?

What makes you so sure their are 5 mafia ?

Im not so sure there is even a mafia group yet.

In a game that started with 20 players, it's reasonable to assume a scum team of five players. Maybe smaller with some sort of third party, too, but with no evidence of a SK that seems less likely right now.

I'm interested in hearing your theory, though.

[Fredo Corleone]

If ya'll want to lynch Lefty, I can't argue that.

He's my best choice for mafia by a longshot - which I've pointed out many times.

As far as lynching me goes, it's not a martyr move - the town gains info from lynches, and I'm a liability becuase the mafia know I'm not the Avatar.

Having said that, I can't make you lynch me, so if you want to scum hunt, I say lynch Lefty.

[Fredo Corleone]

What makes you so sure their are 5 mafia ?

Im not so sure there is even a mafia group yet.

Now this is a wacky theory - which is not to say I didn't consider it (the prince that hunts the Avatar would make a great excuse to build a game like that) but in the end, it would be far too outweighed toward the town.

I'm thinking we have a normal scum dispersion of 4 to 5, and maybe a symp.