Holmes could be disciplined for gaming investment

[Bleedin Green]

people talk crap about the top 100 list, it's voted on by the players. there's also a separate vote by the fans. Santonio is on both lists, Edwards is on neither.

***

look at the nYJ website... all the wallpapers of Santonio's big plays. they say a picture is worth a 1000 words. I wonder what games the Edwards lovers were watching

Santonio TD vs PITT AFC CG

http://www.newyorkjets.com/assets/images/photos-and-videos/walppapers/495x335/110124-week-20-holmes-td-495x396.jpg

Santonio TD vs NE, corner of EZ

http://www.newyorkjets.com/assets/images/photos-and-videos/walppapers/495x335/110117-holmes-td-495x396.jpg

Santonio climbing the ladder vs Buf

http://www.newyorkjets.com/assets/images/photos-and-videos/walppapers/495x335/week-17-td-holmes-495x396.jpg

Santonio "big catch" vs MIA

http://www.newyorkjets.com/assets/images/photos-and-videos/walppapers/495x335/101213-holmes-big-catch-late-495x396.jpg

Santonio's "big plays" various teams DET, HOU, CLE

http://www.newyorkjets.com/assets/images/photos-and-videos/walppapers/495x335/101123-holmes-wall-495-396.jpg

in fairness there are 2 Braylon wallpapers "gaining extra yard" and the "hard earned TD" vs NE. there are 2 shared wallpapers where there are both WR celebrating.

so to review you have, on the official Jets website, 5 Santonio Wallpapers and 2 Braylon wallpapers. But Braylon is secretly better. yeah right.

even if you believe it, the Jets don't.

So then you finally admit that your opinion of Holmes and Edwards has absolutely zero do with any sort of evaluation based on their abilities or what they have done on the field, but solely on the press and popular opinion. You're really not helping your cause here at all. Actually, you're only hurting it. The fact that you're using wallpapers as support of your case is a pure joke. I seriously feel like you have to just be messing with us now, because I can't understand how you could possibly be serious with this. I am just left dumbfounded that you could possibly think what you're saying here actually compromises an argument that could be considered even slightly intelligible. Honestly, the more of these kind of arguments I see in favor of Holmes, the less it makes me think of him, since I'm not sure how good he must really be if nobody seems to be capable of putting together even a slightly coherent argument based on any sort of facts of significance (i.e., not wallpapers and asinine lists).

Every argument in Holmes favor simply dismisses the factual arguments people put together in favor of Edwards without any reason other than because you feel like dismissing them and then say Holmes is better because "it's obvious" or "it's not even close" or whatever other random unquantifiable, indefensible vague statements that are thrown out. I just find it hilarious that you're trying to put such enormous weight on these lists because they're voted on by players and fans, like that should mean a damn thing, while the Pro Bowl is voted on by players, fans AND coaches and is largely considered a complete joke. The fact is Holmes was just considered another pretty good Steelers WR playing second-fiddle to Hines Ward right up until that Super Bowl. He has been living off the rep from that one game ever since. And if how a team rates a player means so much, then what does it say about Holmes that the team he actually played that one glorious game for shipped his a$$ off for a 5th round pick? And that's not just any team, that's the Pittsburgh f'n Steelers.

[Newyorkgiants10]

rodgers was 24 on that top 100 list thats how u know that list is horse sh*t

[Bleedin Green]

rodgers was 24 on that top 100 list thats how u know that list is horse sh*t

This post just made me go take a look at this list. At which point one of the first things I found was Devin Hester rated as the 32nd best player in the NFL, which essentially means he would be the very best player on at least one NFL team. That's one spot below Reggie Wayne, which was far above where Holmes was ranked. I seriously couldn't stop laughing. And let's not even get into the number of rookie / second year players who made this list. Even if this list was decent, using it as justification for an argument would be a joke, but after looking at it, I can only just shake my head.

[Newyorkgiants10]

exactly my point hester at 32 for being a good special team player and an average wide reciever at best warrants him to be ranked number 32, thats bullsh*t. but i dont even care about that as much as rodgers at 24.. he should be in top 3 easy

[flgreen]

So then you finally admit that your opinion of Holmes and Edwards has absolutely zero do with any sort of evaluation based on their abilities or what they have done on the field, but solely on the press and popular opinion. You're really not helping your cause here at all. Actually, you're only hurting it. The fact that you're using wallpapers as support of your case is a pure joke. I seriously feel like you have to just be messing with us now, because I can't understand how you could possibly be serious with this. I am just left dumbfounded that you could possibly think what you're saying here actually compromises an argument that could be considered even slightly intelligible. Honestly, the more of these kind of arguments I see in favor of Holmes, the less it makes me think of him, since I'm not sure how good he must really be if nobody seems to be capable of putting together even a slightly coherent argument based on any sort of facts of significance (i.e., not wallpapers and asinine lists).

Every argument in Holmes favor simply dismisses the factual arguments people put together in favor of Edwards without any reason other than because you feel like dismissing them and then say Holmes is better because "it's obvious" or "it's not even close" or whatever other random unquantifiable, indefensible vague statements that are thrown out. I just find it hilarious that you're trying to put such enormous weight on these lists because they're voted on by players and fans, like that should mean a damn thing, while the Pro Bowl is voted on by players, fans AND coaches and is largely considered a complete joke. The fact is Holmes was just considered another pretty good Steelers WR playing second-fiddle to Hines Ward right up until that Super Bowl. He has been living off the rep from that one game ever since. And if how a team rates a player means so much, then what does it say about Holmes that the team he actually played that one glorious game for shipped his a$$ off for a 5th round pick? And that's not just any team, that's the Pittsburgh f'n Steelers.

It's part of the therapy for Vernon Gholston withdrawal

[F.Chowds]

So then you finally admit that your opinion of Holmes and Edwards has absolutely zero do with any sort of evaluation based on their abilities or what they have done on the field, but solely on the press and popular opinion. You're really not helping your cause here at all. Actually, you're only hurting it. The fact that you're using wallpapers as support of your case is a pure joke. I seriously feel like you have to just be messing with us now, because I can't understand how you could possibly be serious with this. I am just left dumbfounded that you could possibly think what you're saying here actually compromises an argument that could be considered even slightly intelligible. Honestly, the more of these kind of arguments I see in favor of Holmes, the less it makes me think of him, since I'm not sure how good he must really be if nobody seems to be capable of putting together even a slightly coherent argument based on any sort of facts of significance (i.e., not wallpapers and asinine lists).

Every argument in Holmes favor simply dismisses the factual arguments people put together in favor of Edwards without any reason other than because you feel like dismissing them and then say Holmes is better because "it's obvious" or "it's not even close" or whatever other random unquantifiable, indefensible vague statements that are thrown out. I just find it hilarious that you're trying to put such enormous weight on these lists because they're voted on by players and fans, like that should mean a damn thing, while the Pro Bowl is voted on by players, fans AND coaches and is largely considered a complete joke. The fact is Holmes was just considered another pretty good Steelers WR playing second-fiddle to Hines Ward right up until that Super Bowl. He has been living off the rep from that one game ever since. And if how a team rates a player means so much, then what does it say about Holmes that the team he actually played that one glorious game for shipped his a$$ off for a 5th round pick? And that's not just any team, that's the Pittsburgh f'n Steelers.

LMFAO!~

[Bugg]

A bingo hall is now viewed as criminality? Good thing grandma didn't know about this. These are the same owners who require honest injury reports to keep the bokkies, legal and illegal, honest with their pointspreads. And allow their logos to be used for various state scratch lottery tickets.

The NFL bitching about gambling is is like a whore complaining about pornography.

On the other hand grandma did help grandpa run a speakeasy druing Prohibtion. Roughly the same time and places the Maras, who now pretend they came over on the Mayflower, won a certain football team in a card game, or so the legend goes.

There are good reasons and bad reasons to argue Holmes and Edwards. This is no reason either way, a nonissues. This is a bored football media looking for nonsense to write when there really isn't anything to write about.

[stoicsentry]

Just sign Edwards

[bitonti]

Every argument in Holmes favor simply dismisses the factual arguments people put together in favor of Edwards without any reason other than because you feel like dismissing them and then say Holmes is better because "it's obvious" or "it's not even close" or whatever other random unquantifiable, indefensible vague statements that are thrown out. I just find it hilarious that you're trying to put such enormous weight on these lists because they're voted on by players and fans, like that should mean a damn thing, while the Pro Bowl is voted on by players, fans AND coaches and is largely considered a complete joke. The fact is Holmes was just considered another pretty good Steelers WR playing second-fiddle to Hines Ward right up until that Super Bowl. He has been living off the rep from that one game ever since. And if how a team rates a player means so much, then what does it say about Holmes that the team he actually played that one glorious game for shipped his a$$ off for a 5th round pick? And that's not just any team, that's the Pittsburgh f'n Steelers.

you can bash Holmes all day but can you talk up Edwards?

Braylon Edwards was arrested for DUI, arrested for Assault, didn't show up for court date... but Holmes is the troublemaker? Holmes' weed issues were 2 years ago, Edwards got arrested during last years regular season. That's a fact.

Braylon Edwards is not a deep threat, he's not a gamebreaker and he doesn't score as many TD's as Holmes. Holmes has a SB ring, he was SB MVP in fact and produced more for the Jets than Edwards did, last year, in less games.

Let's see you make a case for why Edwards is better, instead of a case for why Im a jerk and Holmes sucks.

[Bleedin Green]

you can bash Holmes all day but can you talk up Edwards?

Braylon Edwards was arrested for DUI, arrested for Assault, didn't show up for court date... but Holmes is the troublemaker? Holmes' weed issues were 2 years ago, Edwards got arrested during last years regular season. That's a fact.

Braylon Edwards is not a deep threat, he's not a gamebreaker and he doesn't score as many TD's as Holmes. Holmes has a SB ring, he was SB MVP in fact and produced more for the Jets than Edwards did, last year, in less games.

Let's see you make a case for why Edwards is better, instead of a case for why Im a jerk and Holmes sucks.

The funny thing is I don't bash Holmes at all. I've said repeatedly I want him back. I think he's an extremely good player, I just prefer Edwards. I'm able to talk up one player without endlessly bashing another in order to try to build him up, unlike you. It's not my fault if you take it as some grave insult for me to say there are certain things Edwards is better at than Holmes.

You want facts about each being a "trouble maker"? FACT: Edwards next suspension will be his first, Holmes next suspension will be for a year. FACT: Edwards has repeatedly admitted his wrong-doings and apologized, Holmes has repeatedly stated as recently as last year's regular season that he has no intentions of changing his behavior. Frankly, I don't give a sh*t who's a nicer guy or any of that nonsense, what I give a sh*t about is which one is a bigger risk for the Jets, and the guy who's another puff away from a year off is UNQUESTIONABLY the bigger risk in that department.

As far as the rest of your evaluation? I'll go point by point:

Braylon Edwards is not a deep threat - FALSE, multiple arguments have been repeatedly placed in front of you showing that Edwards was actually as significantly better deep threat than Holmes last year. Because you choose to ignore them don't make them any less true.

he's not a gamebreaker - Now we're using vague, judgmental values stated as definitive fact based on YOUR opinion? Just stop.

he doesn't score as many TD's as Holmes - This could not possibly be more incorrect. I mean there is literally NOTHING about this that is even slightly true. It's baseless. In one more year in the league, Edwards has 13 more TDs than Holmes. Considering Holmes has never come close to scoring that many TDs in a year, that's not exactly something that year makes up for.

Holmes has a SB ring - Now it's Edwards fault that he was draft to the Browns while Holmes was drafted to the Steelers? Laughable.

he was SB MVP in fact - So does Deon ******* Branch. That said, I will fully admit Holmes played a great game, but again, it's not like Edwards has even ever had that opportunity. Sorry, but a Super Bowl MVP does not automatically make one player better than the other.

and produced more for the Jets than Edwards did, last year - absolutely 100% false. Edwards produced more in EVERY statistical category

in less games - hey, you got one right! Congrats!!

[JiFtheOracle]

This post just made me go take a look at this list. At which point one of the first things I found was Devin Hester rated as the 32nd best player in the NFL, which essentially means he would be the very best player on at least one NFL team. That's one spot below Reggie Wayne, which was far above where Holmes was ranked. I seriously couldn't stop laughing. And let's not even get into the number of rookie / second year players who made this list. Even if this list was decent, using it as justification for an argument would be a joke, but after looking at it, I can only just shake my head.

So? You dont think its telling at all that neither players nor fans find BE to be at top 100 player? Why dont you just ask yourself...do you think he is? Do you think Holmes is?

I think people's opinion about the game who know more than us, is meaningful. Like for example, I'll take Rex Ryan's opinion over yours. Especially considering he had to prepare for both players as a DC. So let look at how he talks about both players and trading.

BE - Rex basically says - "my brother was in Cleveland, said everything being written about BE was wrong. He's a good guy and good player. You'll be happy with him". Thats about it.

Holmes - Rex constantly says - "he's a nightmare to prepare against. He was the most dangerous player in the division while I was there. He's the best player on the field. He's a game changer. He's clutch." Everything he says is literally gushing about the talent. You never hear him talk about BE like that....why?

[Bleedin Green]

So? You dont think its telling at all that neither players nor fans find BE to be at top 100 player? Why dont you just ask yourself...do you think he is? Do you think Holmes is?

I think people's opinion about the game who know more than us, is meaningful. Like for example, I'll take Rex Ryan's opinion over yours. Especially considering he had to prepare for both players as a DC. So let look at how he talks about both players and trading.

BE - Rex basically says - "my brother was in Cleveland, said everything being written about BE was wrong. He's a good guy and good player. You'll be happy with him". Thats about it.

Holmes - Rex constantly says - "he's a nightmare to prepare against. He was the most dangerous player in the division while I was there. He's the best player on the field. He's a game changer. He's clutch." Everything he says is literally gushing about the talent. You never hear him talk about BE like that....why?

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that Rex Ryan thinks Holmes is a better player. I also know what popular opinion is, but even you have to admit that before even looking at their respective talents, one playing most of their career the Steelers and the other for the Browns plays a very big part in all of that. Frankly, Holmes was never considered anything special until that Super Bowl performance, while after his 2007 season Edwards was considered an elite WR talent.

My opinion isn't even necessarily that Edwards is unquestionably a better player of the two for every team in the NFL, it's that I prefer him and his abilities to those of Holmes for the Jets. If I was a fan of a different team, I could very easily think completely different about that, I just find Edwards a better fit for this team. While I love Rex, it's been clear since before Holmes even put a Jets jersey on that Rex's mind was already made up about him, and I think his opinion is much more based on who he had a tougher time defending as the Ravens DC than anything either player has done as a Jet. Of course that certainly counts for something, but the fact that one player matches up better against the Ravens than another does not necessarily make that player the better fit for the Jets.

Don't think for a second that I'm not well aware of Rex's preference and that it won't play a big part into who the Jets choose to keep, it just so happens that I feel differently for a lot of very specific reasons. I like Holmes a lot, I just find it funny that those who prefer him feel the need to bash Edwards relentlessly with completely fabricated reasons and can't provide anything beyond vague subjective statements as to why he is so unquestionably the better of the two. Let me be clear again, there is nothing more I want to see than the Jets resign BOTH of these players, but that doesn't change which player I prefer.

[JiFtheOracle]

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that Rex Ryan thinks Holmes is a better player. I also know what popular opinion is, but even you have to admit that before even looking at their respective talents, one playing most of their career the Steelers and the other for the Browns plays a very big part in all of that. Frankly, Holmes was never considered anything special until that Super Bowl performance, while after his 2007 season Edwards was considered an elite WR talent.

My opinion isn't even necessarily that Edwards is unquestionably a better player of the two for every team in the NFL, it's that I prefer him and his abilities to those of Holmes for the Jets. If I was a fan of a different team, I could very easily think completely different about that, I just find Edwards a better fit for this team. While I love Rex, it's been clear since before Holmes even put a Jets jersey on that Rex's mind was already made up about him, and I think his opinion is much more based on who he had a tougher time defending as the Ravens DC than anything either player has done as a Jet. Of course that certainly counts for something, but the fact that one player matches up better against the Ravens than another does not necessarily make that player the better fit for the Jets.

Don't think for a second that I'm not well aware of Rex's preference and that it won't play a big part into who the Jets choose to keep, it just so happens that I feel differently for a lot of very specific reasons. I like Holmes a lot, I just find it funny that those who prefer him feel the need to bash Edwards relentlessly with completely fabricated reasons and can't provide anything beyond vague subjective statements as to why he is so unquestionably the better of the two. Let me be clear again, there is nothing more I want to see than the Jets resign BOTH of these players, but that doesn't change which player I prefer.

Fair enough, but the bold, I disagree with. Rex has said numerous times that Holmes essentially won them 4 games single handed last season. And I think when you can match up against the best defensive team in the league well, it probably will translates to success else where too.

[Bleedin Green]

Fair enough, but the bold, I disagree with. Rex has said numerous times that Holmes essentially won them 4 games single handed last season. And I think when you can match up against the best defensive team in the league well, it probably will translates to success else where too.

Fair point, of course you're also talking to a guy who shakes his head every time Holmes gets credit for so many of those wins. Not that he doesn't deserve tons of credit for making the big plays he did, but I felt like it became this media frenzy once he started making some big plays to credit him with the win every time he made one. Like I said, I truly mean it when I say I am a big Holmes fan, but I just don't see some of the things there that others do (plus his potential suspension status scares the sh*t out of me). For example, I loved Holmes just as much as the next guy when he caught the game-winner against the Texans, but I also think anyone he gives Holmes more credit for the win because of catching a wide-open TD than Edwards catch on the play before is insane. Of course, that's purely subjective.

I know a lot of it comes with personal preference, and that Edwards TD catch against the Pats in the postseason is one of my favorite Jets plays in years. I actually get why a lot of people love Santonio, the part that just drives me nuts is those who crap all over Edwards in the process. The fact is I could make 10 times better of an argument in favor of Holmes than a lot of people who prefer him, that doesn't involve having to fabricate reasons why Braylon allegedly sucks.

Keep in mind, I definitely don't lump you in that category JiF. We just happen to disagree on preference, which is what it is. Honestly, besides that I think we agree on most of this situation, which is a stance I can certainly get.

[JiFtheOracle]

Fair point, of course you're also talking to a guy who shakes his head every time Holmes gets credit for so many of those wins. Not that he doesn't deserve tons of credit for making the big plays he did, but I felt like it became this media frenzy once he started making some big plays to credit him with the win every time he made one. Like I said, I truly mean it when I say I am a big Holmes fan, but I just don't see some of the things there that others do (plus his potential suspension status scares the sh*t out of me). For example, I loved Holmes just as much as the next guy when he caught the game-winner against the Texans, but I also think anyone he gives Holmes more credit for the win because of catching a wide-open TD than Edwards catch on the play before is insane. Of course, that's purely subjective.

I know a lot of it comes with personal preference, and that Edwards TD catch against the Pats in the postseason is one of my favorite Jets plays in years. I actually get why a lot of people love Santonio, the part that just drives me nuts is those who crap all over Edwards in the process. The fact is I could make 10 times better of an argument in favor of Holmes than a lot of people who prefer him, that doesn't involve having to fabricate reasons why Braylon allegedly sucks.

Keep in mind, I definitely don't lump you in that category JiF. We just happen to disagree on preference, which is what it is. Honestly, besides that I think we agree on most of this situation, which is a stance I can certainly get.

Well, I think knowing that both of us want both resigned...that at least we are coming from an objective view. I dont think Braylon sucks. He's won me over big time. He was a damn good WR this past season. Definitely would love to see him for years to come...along with Holmes.

[Bleedin Green]

Well, I think knowing that both of us want both resigned...that at least we are coming from an objective view. I dont think Braylon sucks. He's won me over big time. He was a damn good WR this past season. Definitely would love to see him for years to come...along with Holmes.

Couldn't agree more. To have both guys back with Cotchery around as our "dumbass insurance" would be most ideal.