I have extrapolated that Idzik is going to have Rex on a short leash. (Good)

[kelticwizard]

No, I haven't heard that before, but this is a different day and age, and every situation is different.  I'm not crazy about this move, and I normally wouldn't do it, but then in a normal situation, I (if I were the GM) wouldn't have to because I would have had the option of firing Rex and bringing my own HC, rather than having  to stick with someone I didn't have full confidence in and trust his judgment.

I'm sorry, I'm not buying this idea that Idzik not being able to come to work his first day and fire Rex is just so amazing.  Other GM's have been hired with an existing coach in place, and besides Idzik took the job under the stated conditions.  That implies he is going to make an honest effort to make the situation work, not that he'll be looking to erode the coach's authority so he can discard him in a year.

 

 

 

For example, he [Rex] could choose to stick with Pace as one of his starters at OLB (or let him play a majority of the minutes) rather than starting or giving those minutes to Barnes or Sapp.  That's not in the best interest of the team as Pace is the past, not the future, and his slowness makes him a liability on the field, but Rex might feel that Pace gives him the best opportunity to win this year...

This is my point-if Rex is no longer given the ability to decide who to play but rather can be overruled by a GM who claims it's "not in the best interest of the team" then Rex is not being allowed to function as a head coach.  At best, he's sort of an on the field front for Coach Idzik. 

 

If that's the case, Woody should have just let Rex go along with Tannenbaum instead of tying his hands like this.

[JoeKlecko]

I'm sorry, I'm not buying this idea that Idzik not being able to come to work his first day and fire Rex is just so amazing.  Other GM's have been hired with an existing coach in place, and besides Idzik took the job under the stated conditions.  That implies he is going to make an honest effort to make the situation work, not that he'll be looking to erode the coach's authority so he can discard him in a year.

 

 

 

 

 

This is my point-if Rex is no longer given the ability to decide who to play but rather can be overruled by a GM who claims it's "not in the best interest of the team" then Rex is not being allowed to function as a head coach.  At best, he's sort of an on the field front for Coach Idzik. 

 

If that's the case, Woody should have just let Rex go along with Tannenbaum instead of tying his hands like this.

 

That's fine if you don't buy it.  I'm not asking you to.  I'm just explaining things as I see them.

 

Each situation is different.  Just because Idzik took the job with Rex doesn't imply anything.  That's YOUR interpretation.  You could be right, I could be right, or there could be another perspective that perhaps neither of us thought about.  And again you make yet another leap.  I never said anything about Idzik seeking to erode Rex's authority.  That may have been a consequence of his wanting to insure what he thinks is best for the team long term, and in fact, it helps support my position, not yours.

 

Regardless, no matter we discuss in relation to all of this, you keep going back to Woody should have fired Rex, and as I've stated countless times before, that makes no sense.  Woody likes Rex.  It makes TOTAL sense that Woody could have hired Idzik with the provviso that he couldn't fire Rex.  Remember Caldwell?  He turned down the job.  Why do you think that is?  One of the reasons could have been that he wouldn't have been given the lattitude to fire Rex.  He may have been told that he had to work with Rex for a year, and then if he wasn't happy with him could fire him.  Maybe Caldwell didn't like the idea of having to deal with having to accept a HC and not being able to hire his on guy.  Besides, the Falcons were interested in Caldwell, and perhaps other teams were too.  Idzik had no other options.  Other high profile candidates like Gamble weren't hired, either.  It could easily be that Idzik was the only one willing to accept Rex.  

 

Why wouldn't he accept the job under those circumstances?  He gets to be a GM when no one else was even interviewing him.  He had connections with the Jets.  He knew the roster had problems and he had no cap money to work with this year anyway, so many coaches may not have wanted to take the job this year anyway.  He knew he could start addressing the roster this year, have some time to rebuild, then if Rex did well and led the team to an excellent season, he could keep him.  If not, he could fire him, and with a good number of the teams personnel issues solved, with lots of cap space and potentially high draft position again next season, the Jets' job would be a lot more attractive to potential HC candidates.

 

It's really pointless for us to discuss this further.  We both have said about all we can say.  You seem to only want to see things one way and are like a dog with a bone with your Rex should have fired Woody thing.  You're not gonna change your mind and neither am I.  It's cool.  We don't have to agree.

[kelticwizard]

....Just because Idzik took the job with Rex doesn't imply anything.  That's YOUR interpretation. 

 

On the contrary, when Idzik took the job on the understanding that Rex would be head coach-indeed, when talking to Rex was part of the interview process-that absolutely implied that he would make a good faith effort to work with Rex and to respect Rex's position.  Anything else would be dishonest.

 

And again you make yet another leap.  I never said anything about Idzik seeking to erode Rex's authority.

I never claimed you did.  I just pointed out that is exactly what Idzik did to Rex.

 

 

That may have been a consequence of his wanting to insure what he thinks is best for the team long term, and in fact, it helps support my position, not yours.

Thank you for admitting now that Idzik publicly eroded Rex's authority. 

 

Regardless, no matter we discuss in relation to all of this, you keep going back to Woody should have fired Rex, and as I've stated countless times before, that makes no sense.  Woody likes Rex. 

I have said repeatedly that Woody should have fired Rex if he doesn't have enough confidence in him to allow Rex to effectively function as a head coach.  Who plays and who doesn't, including the QB, is the decision not only of every other head coach in the NFL, but also every HC at the college and high school level as well.  You have even given an example of how many minutes a game a veteran should get vs a younger player as being beyond Rex's authority. 

 

In the two lengthy posts you have made on this issue, you have not written a single sentence as to how Rex is supposed to project the air of authority necessary to do the job if it's publicy proclaimed he doesn't have the right to say who sits and who plays.  Other coaches have that, for good reason.  Now Rex doesn't, and everybody knows it.

[JoeKlecko]

On the contrary, when Idzik took the job on the understanding that Rex would be head coach-indeed, when talking to Rex was part of the interview process-that absolutely implied that he would make a good faith effort to work with Rex and to respect Rex's position.  Anything else would be dishonest.

 

 

 

I never claimed you did.  I just pointed out that is exactly what Idzik did to Rex.

 

 

 

Thank you for admitting now that Idzik publicly eroded Rex's authority. 

 

 

 

I have said repeatedly that Woody should have fired Rex if he doesn't have enough confidence in him to allow Rex to effectively function as a head coach.  Who plays and who doesn't, including the QB, is the decision not only of every other head coach in the NFL, but also every HC at the college and high school level as well.  You have even given an example of how many minutes a game a veteran should get vs a younger player as being beyond Rex's authority. 

 

In the two lengthy posts you have made on this issue, you have not written a single sentence as to how Rex is supposed to project the air of authority necessary to do the job if it's publicy proclaimed he doesn't have the right to say who sits and who plays.  Other coaches have that, for good reason.  Now Rex doesn't, and everybody knows it.

 

Sorry, your last paragraph is utter BS imo. I don't need to write any such thing.   If just because Idzik is going to be involved in some of those decisions Rex suddenly can't project an air of authority then that's on Rex, not Idzik, and means Rex should have been fired.  Just because we have a strong GM that is gonna make sure that Rex makes the right decisions and does what is in the best interests of the team doesn't mean that all of a sudden he has no authority and the players won't listen to him.  I'd be willing to bet that with most every team in the NFL the GM has more say so than any of us realize.  It's just not made public.

 

I'm in favor of any and everything that makes the Jets a tough, successful football team, regardless of who the CS is.  You on the other hand are putting Rex or the position of the HC over the team and its ultimate success.  I'm a Jets fan, not a Rex fan or HC fan.   What, is your dad a HC or you coach a Pop Warner team or something?

 

If you can't understand that Idzik needs to see what the team has in Geno and the other young players so that he can make plans for next off season, then I can't help you.  Rex has shown not to understand the need to develop young players and/or see what they have in them.  He needs to be overridden in that regard.  Most quality HCs do that as a matter of course.  It's another skill that Rex needs to develop if he hopes to be a really good HC.

[Cmartin]

I think the press is making more of this than it should be. I'm sure most coaches let their GM know what they plan on doing and receive some feedback from management.

[slats]

Other high profile candidates like Gamble weren't hired, either.  It could easily be that Idzik was the only one willing to accept Rex.  

There may've been candidates who wanted no part of Rex. In fact, there probably were. But Gamble wasn't one of them. He was openly lobbying for the job, and after a few interviews around the league, no one hired him. The Jets didn't want him.

 

Why wouldn't he accept the job under those circumstances?  He gets to be a GM when no one else was even interviewing him.  He had connections with the Jets.  He knew the roster had problems and he had no cap money to work with this year anyway, so many coaches may not have wanted to take the job this year anyway.  He knew he could start addressing the roster this year, have some time to rebuild, then if Rex did well and led the team to an excellent season, he could keep him.  If not, he could fire him, and with a good number of the teams personnel issues solved, with lots of cap space and potentially high draft position again next season, the Jets' job would be a lot more attractive to potential HC candidates.

I agree with almost all of this. The Jets' job wasn't attractive for either a GM or coaching candidate. Very high profile, but some serious roster and cap issues that didn't have a quick solution. It was going to be an ugly first season. The only thing making it remotely attractive would be a little patience. Retaining Rex for a year (if only a year) gives the GM cover for a year while he makes a series of low level moves in preparation for a 2014 where he'll actually have room to operate.

It's pretty obvious that Woody likes Rex, and that he wanted Rex and his new GM to work together - for at least a year. Idzik needs to fairly evaluate Rex in this situation, just as Woody is no doubt evaluating Idzik.

The Jets HC job becomes much more attractive if Geno proves to be the answer at QB. But, ironically, if Geno proves to be the answer at QB, Rex is much more likely to be retained.

[Sperm Edwards]

None of these explanations (or rationalizations) explain why Idzik felt the need to disclose the situation to the press.  Releasing this sensitive/controversial topic to the the NY media vultures is small of him if it was intended, and amateurish if it just slipped out.  It was totally unnecessary.

 

I'm just being honest, as I've been (and still am) a big fan of almost everything Idzik's done so far, including the manner in which he's handled himself.

[kelticwizard]

I think the press is making more of this than it should be. I'm sure most coaches let their GM know what they plan on doing and receive some feedback from management.

They should work together.  But the final decision about who plays and who sits resides with the head coach-or at least must be perceived as residing with the head coach. It's also damaging to publicly say that Rex might not have the interests of the organization at heart.

 

If the organization feels that Rex is counter-productive to the organization-and Rex should be the public face of the organization-then why is Rex there in the first place?  Damndest thing I ever saw.

[kelticwizard]

 If just because Idzik is going to be involved in some of those decisions Rex suddenly can't project an air of authority then that's on Rex, not Idzik, and means Rex should have been fired.  Just because we have a strong GM that is gonna make sure that Rex makes the right decisions and does what is in the best interests of the team doesn't mean that all of a sudden he has no authority and the players won't listen to him. 

 

If Idzik is going to publicly declare that who sits and who plays is not the coach's decision, it is obvious that Rex's authority has been reduced.  Football players are headstrong young men mostly in their early to mid twenties, and one of the key motivating tools a coach has is that if you don't play the way he wants you to play, you sit on the bench.  Take that away from him and you are hamstringing him hugely. 

 

 

You on the other hand are putting Rex or the position of the HC over the team and its ultimate success.  I'm a Jets fan, not a Rex fan or HC fan.   What, is your dad a HC or you coach a Pop Warner team or something?

I'm in favor of sending Rex or any coach you send out there having the full complement of powers necessary to achieve success.  The players play hard  because the coach has been able to motivate them.  Giving playing time or taking it away is absolutely key to this and if the players don't perceive Rex as being fully in charge of that they won't reach down and play hard for him.

 

You have heard of players who would run through a wall for the head coach, and that is what you want.  I never heard of a player who would run through a wall for a General Manager.  Have you?

[JiFtheOracle]

There may've been candidates who wanted no part of Rex. In fact, there probably were. But Gamble wasn't one of them. He was openly lobbying for the job, and after a few interviews around the league, no one hired him. The Jets didn't want him.

 

I agree with almost all of this. The Jets' job wasn't attractive for either a GM or coaching candidate. Very high profile, but some serious roster and cap issues that didn't have a quick solution. It was going to be an ugly first season. The only thing making it remotely attractive would be a little patience. Retaining Rex for a year (if only a year) gives the GM cover for a year while he makes a series of low level moves in preparation for a 2014 where he'll actually have room to operate.

It's pretty obvious that Woody likes Rex, and that he wanted Rex and his new GM to work together - for at least a year. Idzik needs to fairly evaluate Rex in this situation, just as Woody is no doubt evaluating Idzik.

The Jets HC job becomes much more attractive if Geno proves to be the answer at QB. But, ironically, if Geno proves to be the answer at QB, Rex is much more likely to be retained.

 

I think thats horsesh*t.  No offense.

 

Who the **** is John Idzik?  Nobody on this board knew a damn thing about him until he was mentioned way down the line for potential GM's.  That said, John Idzik, is attracted to any franchise offering him a GM job.  Its the ultimate opportunity for a career front office guy.  Lets be honest, if a team is looking for a new GM, the team isnt in a good situation. When do you see a GM fired from a good team and the next GM just walks into a gold mine? Never?  Same thing goes for a new HC.

 

Idzik is a spineless coward if he accepted an unattractive job and got Rex forced upon him.  And Rex doesnt give him any cover.  If Rex is ultimately fired and Idzik proceeds to continue to fail, everyone will point back and say, he retained Rex instead of bringing in his own guy to change the culture immediately.  It will be his stain and no doubt it will be taken into consideration if someone targets John as their next GM. 

[jack48]

Considering Rex stayed with mark last year after some of of the most terrible performances  by a QB- I think Idzik can not be content to just let Rex have full say in this.

 

 

Considering Rex stayed with mark last year after some of of the most terrible performances  by a QB- I think Idzik can not be content to just let Rex have full say in this.

 

Rex is a self-confessed offensive ignoramus.  I do not want him making the call.

[jack48]

If Idzik is going to publicly declare that who sits and who plays is not the coach's decision, it is obvious that Rex's authority has been reduced.  Football players are headstrong young men mostly in their early to mid twenties, and one of the key motivating tools a coach has is that if you don't play the way he wants you to play, you sit on the bench.  Take that away from him and you are hamstringing him hugely. 

 

 

I'm in favor of sending Rex or any coach you send out there having the full complement of powers necessary to achieve success.  The players play hard  because the coach has been able to motivate them.  Giving playing time or taking it away is absolutely key to this and if the players don't perceive Rex as being fully in charge of that they won't reach down and play hard for him.

 

You have heard of players who would run through a wall for the head coach, and that is what you want.  I never heard of a player who would run through a wall for a General Manager.  Have you?

 

 

If Idzik is going to publicly declare that who sits and who plays is not the coach's decision, it is obvious that Rex's authority has been reduced.  Football players are headstrong young men mostly in their early to mid twenties, and one of the key motivating tools a coach has is that if you don't play the way he wants you to play, you sit on the bench.  Take that away from him and you are hamstringing him hugely. 

 

 

I'm in favor of sending Rex or any coach you send out there having the full complement of powers necessary to achieve success.  The players play hard  because the coach has been able to motivate them.  Giving playing time or taking it away is absolutely key to this and if the players don't perceive Rex as being fully in charge of that they won't reach down and play hard for him.

 

You have heard of players who would run through a wall for the head coach, and that is what you want.  I never heard of a player who would run through a wall for a General Manager.  Have you?

If the players do not play hard you fire them.  Idzik is the boss.  Rex is lucky to still have a job.  I am not sure that a coach who gave Mark Sanchez carte blanche for four years is qualified to make this kind of call.  Idzik is stuck with Rex.  I am sure Rex understands that there are going to be some  conditions of his precarious employment.

[Sperm Edwards]

I think thats horsesh*t.  No offense.

 

Who the **** is John Idzik?  Nobody on this board knew a damn thing about him until he was mentioned way down the line for potential GM's.  That said, John Idzik, is attracted to any franchise offering him a GM job.  Its the ultimate opportunity for a career front office guy.  Lets be honest, if a team is looking for a new GM, the team isnt in a good situation. When do you see a GM fired from a good team and the next GM just walks into a gold mine? Never?  Same thing goes for a new HC.

 

Idzik is a spineless coward if he accepted an unattractive job and got Rex forced upon him.  And Rex doesnt give him any cover.  If Rex is ultimately fired and Idzik proceeds to continue to fail, everyone will point back and say, he retained Rex instead of bringing in his own guy to change the culture immediately.  It will be his stain and no doubt it will be taken into consideration if someone targets John as their next GM. 

 

I think this is horsesh*t.  

 

I think someone would be a spineless coward if they couldn't handle an unattractive job with Rex forced upon him for the first year.  

 

Next, none of us being familiar with Idzik, prior to the Jets interviewing him, isn't as meaningful as you're making it out to be.  Idzik, from all accounts, is/was very respected around the league.  While he was not the highest profile hire, I didn't read any accounts saying it was anything other than a good one. Moreover, it was a decision made after interviewing many candidates, by a firm that seems to know what they're doing (better than Woody on his own, anyway).

 

If the Jets suck this year he will absolutely get a mulligan, as would any new hire the Jets made at GM.  

If Geno Smith is good it will help find a new HC in the event Rex is canned.

If Geno Smith is good it may very well save Rex's job.

[faba]

Idzik was respected throughout the league according to all reports. I just think he is putting everyone on notice we have to perform better. Is he showing his authority- you bet he is Rex's boss

[JiFtheOracle]

I think this is horsesh*t.  

 

I think someone would be a spineless coward if they couldn't handle an unattractive job with Rex forced upon him for the first year.  

 

Next, none of us being familiar with Idzik, prior to the Jets interviewing him, isn't as meaningful as you're making it out to be.  Idzik, from all accounts, is/was very respected around the league.  While he was not the highest profile hire, I didn't read any accounts saying it was anything other than a good one. Moreover, it was a decision made after interviewing many candidates, by a firm that seems to know what they're doing (better than Woody on his own, anyway).

 

If the Jets suck this year he will absolutely get a mulligan, as would any new hire the Jets made at GM.  

If Geno Smith is good it will help find a new HC in the event Rex is canned.

If Geno Smith is good it may very well save Rex's job.

 

 

Idzik was respected throughout the league according to all reports. I just think he is putting everyone on notice we have to perform better. Is he showing his authority- you bet he is Rex's boss

 

I'm sure Idzik is well respect, but how many interviews did he get?  

 

Even so, thats beside my point.  Every FO type of guy who wants to advance their career is listening and is attracted to any team calling about being their next GM.  99% of those teams, are a mess hence why they are looking for a GM.

 

And yes, I agree, Idzik gets a mulligan for this year.  But deciding to keep Rex even if for one year is permanently on his resume.  It will be determining factor if this doesnt work out and he's looking to get another GM job in the future.  That "decision" is on him and if it wasnt, he's spineless puppet.  

[whodeawhodat]

Rex staying on as HC damn well was a condition of any GM taking the job. This was public knowledge and I dont know how any of the regulars on this forum could have forgotten that.

 

If anything, this shows that starting Sanchez last season was not just a Rex decision.  You think Tannenbaum would be fine with Rex benching sanchize after Tannenbaum just gave him that crazy contract extension?  T was Rex's boss and if any of you have a boss you know the boss gets what he wants, most of the time.

 

QB is the one position on this team where Rex should take input from others, shiiiiiiit, let them make the decision as they are more prepared to make the correct decision imo.  What would have undermined Rex would be if Idzik said he would have input on what type of defense the Jets would run but he didnt say that.

[JoeKlecko]

None of these explanations (or rationalizations) explain why Idzik felt the need to disclose the situation to the press.  Releasing this sensitive/controversial topic to the the NY media vultures is small of him if it was intended, and amateurish if it just slipped out.  It was totally unnecessary.

 

I'm just being honest, as I've been (and still am) a big fan of almost everything Idzik's done so far, including the manner in which he's handled himself.

 

I agree with you.  I don't understand why he went public with it unless he had mentioned it in private to Rex and Rex balked at the idea, so Idzik felt the need to let it be known publicly that this is how it was going to be.

 

I hope he learns a better way to handle these things or doesn't slip up again.

[JoeKlecko]

They should work together.  But the final decision about who plays and who sits resides with the head coach-or at least must be perceived as residing with the head coach. It's also damaging to publicly say that Rex might not have the interests of the organization at heart.

 

If the organization feels that Rex is counter-productive to the organization-and Rex should be the public face of the organization-then why is Rex there in the first place?  Damndest thing I ever saw.

 

It's the Jets.  What do you want?  It's part of their culture.  LOL

[JoeKlecko]

If Idzik is going to publicly declare that who sits and who plays is not the coach's decision, it is obvious that Rex's authority has been reduced.  Football players are headstrong young men mostly in their early to mid twenties, and one of the key motivating tools a coach has is that if you don't play the way he wants you to play, you sit on the bench.  Take that away from him and you are hamstringing him hugely. 

 

 

I'm in favor of sending Rex or any coach you send out there having the full complement of powers necessary to achieve success.  The players play hard  because the coach has been able to motivate them.  Giving playing time or taking it away is absolutely key to this and if the players don't perceive Rex as being fully in charge of that they won't reach down and play hard for him.

 

You have heard of players who would run through a wall for the head coach, and that is what you want.  I never heard of a player who would run through a wall for a General Manager.  Have you?

 

You're amazing with your leaps and stretches of what was said.  Now you're stretching the announcement that it will be a group decision who starts somehow means that Rex won't be able to bench players who aren't producing or who become a discipline problem.  You're unreal guy.  Nothing was said to that effect.  I'm sure that if Rex felt he needed to bench someone that they all initially agreed would start, then Rex would and could bench him. You're really making a mountain out of this molehill.

[T0mShane]

I agree with you. I don't understand why he went public with it unless he had mentioned it in private to Rex and Rex balked at the idea, so Idzik felt the need to let it be known publicly that this is how it was going to be.

I hope he learns a better way to handle these things or doesn't slip up again.

IMO, it's important for any newly-hired exec to establish that he's the Alpha Dog. This is Management 101. If, indeed, that's what Idzik was doing, it's mission accomplished.

[JoeKlecko]

I think thats horsesh*t.  No offense.

 

Who the **** is John Idzik?  Nobody on this board knew a damn thing about him until he was mentioned way down the line for potential GM's.  That said, John Idzik, is attracted to any franchise offering him a GM job.  Its the ultimate opportunity for a career front office guy.  Lets be honest, if a team is looking for a new GM, the team isnt in a good situation. When do you see a GM fired from a good team and the next GM just walks into a gold mine? Never?  Same thing goes for a new HC.

 

Idzik is a spineless coward if he accepted an unattractive job and got Rex forced upon him.  And Rex doesnt give him any cover.  If Rex is ultimately fired and Idzik proceeds to continue to fail, everyone will point back and say, he retained Rex instead of bringing in his own guy to change the culture immediately.  It will be his stain and no doubt it will be taken into consideration if someone targets John as their next GM. 

 

Why is it horsebleep?  Sorry, I just don't see that at all.

 

I agree with your second paragraph, but how does that lead to your third?  Why is he a spineless coward if he accepted an unattractive job?  And just because it may have been unattractive this year, doesn't mean it will be next year.  If Idzik saw it as unattractive, it was because of the lousy cap situation, lousy roster situation and having Rex forced upon him.  He knew those things were all basically one year deals.  To turn down the opportunity to become a GM (with all that goes with that) because of a few things that either definitely would change within a year or quite likely would, he'd have to be an idiot.  He knew he could begin addressing the roster issue immediately.  He could solve some issues via the draft and others via FA.  He knew there were certain players like Sanchez and Tone that he was stuck with for this then they'd be gone.  He knew he'd be stuck with Rex for a year, and if Rex learned his lessons and did a good job coaching, great, problem solved.  If not, he figured he could convince Woody to fire Rex at the end of the season and bring in his own choice.  If not, he could bide his time for another year or two until he could fire Rex or get another GM job elsewhere.  In the meantime, he's proved that he's a capable GM by the way he cleaned up the cap with the Jets, the great job he did with the draft and getting the players signed and into camp and in cleaning up many of the problems around the Jets.  It wouldn't be held against him by other teams that he wanted to fire Rex and couldn't because Woody wouldn't allow him to.  They'd understand, because they know what a doofus Woody is.

 

What do you mean "Idzik continues to fail?  One has to actually fail, before one can "continue to fail."  Idzik hasn't failed at anything yet.  That is completely bogus.

[JoeKlecko]

I'm sure Idzik is well respect, but how many interviews did he get?  

 

Even so, thats beside my point.  Every FO type of guy who wants to advance their career is listening and is attracted to any team calling about being their next GM.  99% of those teams, are a mess hence why they are looking for a GM.

 

And yes, I agree, Idzik gets a mulligan for this year.  But deciding to keep Rex even if for one year is permanently on his resume.  It will be determining factor if this doesnt work out and he's looking to get another GM job in the future.  That "decision" is on him and if it wasnt, he's spineless puppet.  

 

NO it won't.  You're totally wrong on this.  As another poster said, EVERYONE knew that keeping Rex as HC was a requirement of the new GM.  That cannot and will not be held against Idzik.  He wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to show that he was a quality GM if he hadn't accepted the job even with the limitations.  Have you never accepted a job that wasn't perfect but you needed a job and it was the best opportunity you had at the present? Get real, guy.  No job is perfect.  There are downsides to every job.  If you're smart you can often change those factors or at least learn to cope with them.  If nothing else, you take that job and bide your time until something better comes along.  It's not then held against you that you took that less than perfect job.  It's totally ridiculous to try to claim that it will somehow hurt Idzik in the future.

[kelticwizard]

You're amazing with your leaps and stretches of what was said.  Now you're stretching the announcement that it will be a group decision who starts somehow means that Rex won't be able to bench players who aren't producing or who become a discipline problem.  You're unreal guy.  Nothing was said to that effect. 

I really don't see how this plan will work.  Only 11 guys can start on a side.  If it takes a group decision to decide who starts and when, then clearly Rex can't start everyone he wants unless he and Idzik are long lost identical twins who think exactly alike.

 

 

Here's an example from a previous post of yours, #35.

Idzik supposedly will be here indefinitely. That's not a given with Rex.  Idzik needs to find out if Geno can play, and he needs to find out if Sapp, and some of the other young players are keepers, or if they will need to be replaced/upgraded during the next off season.  It is in the best interests of the team going forward to find out what they have in their young players, but it may not be in Rex's best interests, or at least Rex may not think that it is. For example, he could choose to stick with Pace as one of his starters at OLB (or let him play a majority of the minutes) rather than starting or giving those minutes to Barnes or Sapp.  That's not in the best interest of the team as Pace is the past, not the future, and his slowness makes him a liability on the field, but Rex might feel that Pace gives him the best opportunity to win this year simply because he's a veteran, knows the system, won't make mental mistakes, and can set the edge, whereas a young player will probably make some mental mistakes, won't know the system as well, so there will be some growing pains, but offers a whole lot more upside in terms of energy and speed.

 

So that leaves Rex with what-the title of head coach but not really the power?  If this plan goes forward as you explained it, Rex will very frequently not have the people on the field that he thinks gives him the best chance to win the game.  This is your idea of good?

 

Every other HC at any level is the decision-maker as to who plays and who doesn't, and for good reason-it's an important way for him to exert his authority and get the extra effort from the individuals on the team.  Whether you or the others want to admit it or not, the sentences "Rex has full head coach powers." and  "Rex does not decide who sits and who plays" are mutually exclusive statements.  And everybody who follows football knows it, or should.

[JoeKlecko]

IMO, it's important for any newly-hired exec to establish that he's the Alpha Dog. This is Management 101. If, indeed, that's what Idzik was doing, it's mission accomplished.

 

I agree with that to an extent, but in this situation, I think it could possibly have more negative repercussions than whatever positive it would gain from establishing himself as Alpha Dog.  We'll probably never know why he chose to do that or whether it was an inadvertent slip of the tongue.  Perhaps the media had been questioning him a lot, testing him to see if Rex was calling the shots or not, and he felt the need to set the record straight as you suggest.  Whatever his intent, he definitely got the message across that he's Charles in Charge.

[JoeKlecko]

I really don't see how this plan will work.  Only 11 guys can start on a side.  If it takes a group decision to decide who starts and when, then clearly Rex can't start everyone he wants unless he and Idzik are long lost identical twins who think exactly alike.

 

 

Here's an example from a previous post of yours, #35.

 

So that leaves Rex with what-the title of head coach but not really the power?  If this plan goes forward as you explained it, Rex will very frequently not have the people on the field that he thinks gives him the best chance to win the game.  This is your idea of good?

 

Every other HC at any level is the decision-maker as to who plays and who doesn't, and for good reason-it's an important way for him to exert his authority and get the extra effort from the individuals on the team.  Whether you or the others want to admit it or not, the sentences "Rex has full head coach powers." and  "Rex does not decide who sits and who plays" are mutually exclusive statements.  And everybody who follows football knows it, or should.

 

Again with the leaps.  You're driving me nuts!!!  Rex perhaps not being able to start everyone he wants has nothing to do with his ability to bench or punish players at the beginning of the season.  To begin with, if a player has been a discipline problem or not performed up to snuff, then more than likely Idzik, Mornhinweg and Thurman would be in total agreement with Rex.  If not, then they would probably be the ones more likely to want to sit that player that hasn't been playing as well as they think he should or to punish him.  Rex isn't a disciplinarian and in the past has not demanded accountability.  Idzik and Mornhinweg, and possibly Thurman would be much more likely to do those things than Rex, the players' coach who wants to be best friends with all of them.

 

Bullspit.  You are totally overreacting to this whole thing.  You act as if it's a fait accompli that they will disagree every time with Rex and Rex' power and authority will be usurped and as a result he'll become a little, useless shrinking violet.  Anyone that knows anything about Rex knows that isn't going to happen.  Idzik isn't stupid.  He's not gonna sabotage Rex and the team.  It's about working together and being on the same page, which is vitally important.  You're the one who needs to understand, not the rest of us.

[T0mShane]

When has Rex ever punished a player?

[kelticwizard]

 

 

Leap nothing.  I'm just going by what you wrote.  How the thing the other decision-makers will be doing is to force Rex to start younger players so the team knows what they have for future years, instead of Rex having the people he feels he needs to win the game.  You even said that doing so might not be in Rex's best interest, (as defined by winning games this season), but in the team's best interest, (as defined by winning more games in the future).

 

Well, if that's the case, this year Rex will not only be the only coach in the NFL who can't play or start the people he feels he needs to play, he'll be the only coach in college or high school football who can't do it either.   And it doesn't matter if the others will go along if the player is a discipline problem or not, for the job of head coach you need to know you have the ability to do these things without asking anybody. 

 

Rex is carrying a burden no other coach has to carry or should have to carry.  I like Rex, I'm glad that he has the chance to coach this year.  But if Woody is going to keep Rex only by locking this albatross around his neck, he should have done the honorable thing and let Rex go along with Tannenbaum. 

[JoeKlecko]

Leap nothing.  I'm just going by what you wrote.  How the thing the other decision-makers will be doing is to force Rex to start younger players so the team knows what they have for future years, instead of Rex having the people he feels he needs to win the game.  You even said that doing so might not be in Rex's best interest, (as defined by winning games this season), but in the team's best interest, (as defined by winning more games in the future).

 

Well, if that's the case, this year Rex will not only be the only coach in the NFL who can't play or start the people he feels he needs to play, he'll be the only coach in college or high school football who can't do it either.   And it doesn't matter if the others will go along if the player is a discipline problem or not, for the job of head coach you need to know you have the ability to do these things without asking anybody. 

 

Rex is carrying a burden no other coach has to carry or should have to carry.  I like Rex, I'm glad that he has the chance to coach this year.  But if Woody is going to keep Rex only by locking this albatross around his neck, he should have done the honorable thing and let Rex go along with Tannenbaum. 

 

LOL!!!  Whatever.  You're truly impossible.  You really need to take a logic course and a reading comprehension class or get back on your meds.  In your last post you were making the leap that because others were involved with choosing who would start Rex wouldn't be able to punish or bench people.  I'm too tired to go back and quote you.  I know what you said and so does everyone else who has read this thread.  Now you totally ignore that and try to make it about something else.

 

I have better things to do with my time than continuing to discuss this with you.

[slats]

LOL!!!  Whatever.  You're truly impossible.  You really need to take a logic course and a reading comprehension class or get back on your meds.  In your last post you were making the leap that because others were involved with choosing who would start Rex wouldn't be able to punish or bench people.  I'm too tired to go back and quote you.  I know what you said and so does everyone else who has read this thread.  Now you totally ignore that and try to make it about something else.

 

I have better things to do with my time than continuing to discuss this with you.

No place for the bold here. State your case, as emphatically as you want, but please don't attack other posters like that.

If you truly have better things to do than continue the discussion, try to get on with those better things before you lower yourself to hurling insults.

Thanks.