BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't think Hill has the lateral agility to take screen passes like Demaryius and do much with the football. Dez attacks the ball better than anyone in the league other than Calvin. I guess we just see things differently. Hill just looks goofy as an athlete. Well I guess you can rely on the eye-test, but you can't fake the agility numbers that Hill put up and they're second to none, especially considering how tall he is. The kid is a freak and if allowed to develop properly he's going to be a very consistent threat. Demaryius' numbers are extremely similar to Hill's by the way: both had their best game as a rookie in their first game and then were plagued by being nicked up and inconsistency (Hill- 252 and 3 tds, Thomas 283 and 2 tds). Although Thomas was dealing with the Achilles injury and then the pinky, Hill is on pace for extremely similar per game numbers and will wind up with better overall numbers due to being healthier this season. Thomas didn't take the jump until Manning and while he's clearly the better player currently, I don't see why you're willing to give he a first rounder the benefit of the doubt until this 3rd season to perform and not our 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Well I guess you can rely on the eye-test, but you can't fake the agility numbers that Hill put up and they're second to none, especially considering how tall he is. The kid is a freak and if allowed to develop properly he's going to be a very consistent threat. Demaryius' numbers are extremely similar to Hill's by the way: both had their best game as a rookie in their first game and then were plagued by being nicked up and inconsistency (Hill- 252 and 3 tds, Thomas 283 and 2 tds). Although Thomas was dealing with the Achilles injury and then the pinky, Hill is on pace for extremely similar per game numbers and will wind up with better overall numbers due to being healthier this season. Thomas didn't take the jump until Manning and while he's clearly the better player currently, I don't see why you're willing to give he a first rounder the benefit of the doubt until this 3rd season to perform and not our 2nd rounder. Because Thomas' athleticism passes the eye test, Hills doesn't...at least not yet. When Thomas was catching passes from Tebow you could see it. He's got ability in space that I haven't seen from Hill. Some guys it just doesn't translate in pads. Gholston was a "freak" and he ran like a fire hydrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because Thomas' athleticism passes the eye test, Hills doesn't...at least not yet. When Thomas was catching passes from Tebow you could see it. He's got ability in space that I haven't seen from Hill. Some guys it just doesn't translate in pads. Gholston was a "freak" and he ran like a fire hydrant. Ehh, Vernon's problem was that he didn't like football and avoided contact when he got into the NFL, not that he wasn't a good athlete. Thomas didn't show that he was anything special until the second half of his second season; but seeing as how he was the 22ndish overall pick, you'd like to think he would show quicker development and promise than a guy picked 20 slots after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ehh, Vernon's problem was that he didn't like football and avoided contact when he got into the NFL, not that he wasn't a good athlete. Thomas didn't show that he was anything special until the second half of his second season; but seeing as how he was the 22ndish overall pick, you'd like to think he would show quicker development and promise than a guy picked 20 slots after him. His athleticism didn't translate in pads. He was a stiff. He didn't avoid contact he ran right into it and didn't know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Respectfully have to disagree. His combine certainly helped, but that's not just because of his world-class measurables, he caught everything thrown at him and showed very smooth hands there. He was 11th pick in the second round and that's exactly where you draft guys like this: prototypical size and speed, he was arguably one of the most explosive WRs in college football when he averaged almost 30 yards per catch and while he only caught 30 balls that year, he had 800+ yards and a half dozen tds. When you watch his clips, you see a kid who can make acrobatic catches, is extremely physical and can take the top off a defense. Last year you saw all that talent in the first game against buffalo, but then teams started to take notice of him and he was shut down. He started over-thinking and losing focus. I've always said he has very good hands, he's just been caught thinking about his next move which causes him to have a lapse in concentration. He needs a #1 WR to draw coverages and this kid will be putting up ~1000 yards consistently, I firmly believe that. It was my stance last year and the beginning of this that hell put up 700+ this year and be primed for a breakout next year and I stand by that. You can see that he's more than just catch wide open passes, but that like Dez and Crabtree, he's able to take quick screens and hitches and break them off for 70+, not to mention some nice catches in traffic and a couple impressive one handed grabs. You can definitely see the potential here and it's easy to see why he was a second round pick. Hill was drafted where he was because Tannenbaum is an accountant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ike Taylor's first mistake was not getting his hands on Hill off the line. You give Hill a free pass- yes, his track speed is incredible. Good corners(which Taylor is) throw off routes before they even start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hill was drafted where he was because Tannenbaum is an accountant. Hill is the type of guy that will get slammed by this fan-base until he breaks out next year for 1000 yards when we get other play-makers and everyone will be saying how they're so glad to be wrong. Like it or not, he's following a very similar trajectory as many other good WRs in this league: rough rookie season with a game or two of brilliance, improvement in every phase second year with a couple more games of flashes and then a breakout 3rd year. We can only wait and see, but I have a lot of faith in this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ike Taylor's first mistake was not getting his hands on Hill off the line. You give Hill a free pass- yes, his track speed is incredible. Good corners(which Taylor is) throw off routes before they even start. Ike's not getting his hands on him because MM has almost exclusively been lining Hill up as the Z receiver in order to give him that couple yards of cushion to use the agility that you said he doesn't have in order to beat press-man coverage like that. It's not by accident that he was routinely beating Ike like that. It's also allowed him to get in motion and create some mismatches. Hill has done a lot more than he gets credit for and has shown the ability to beat bump-n-run coverage, which is why you've seen a lot of teams either bracket him or play off-man and give him more of a cushion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I agree. I think that Hill has been drawing a decent amount of safety help. I noticed it in a bunch in both the Pats and Steelers games. Polamalu is a slug, so Hill blows right by in the clip above, but the I think he is drawing bodies which should be helping the others out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I agree. I think that Hill has been drawing a decent amount of safety help. I noticed it in a bunch in both the Pats and Steelers games. Polamalu is a slug, so Hill blows right by in the clip above, but the I think he is drawing bodies which should be helping the others out. I started noticing it during the Atlanta game and it became more apparent against Pitt and NWE. It's not surprising either, as he was averaging 18 yards a reception through this first three games and then 27 yards a catch and about 100 yards a game in week 2 and 3 against Buffalo and NWE. We didn't get to see him at Tennessee as he was knocked out on the first player, but the following three games against Atlanta, Pitt and NWE he was drawing the attention of the defense. He still has the ability to beat that coverage a couple times a game as we saw against Pitt, Geno just needs to hit him when he does. I know I'm probably one of Hill's biggest supporters, but I truly feel if we have anyone else on this team that's capable of drawing double coverage, Hill will be able to be more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I started noticing it during the Atlanta game and it became more apparent against Pitt and NWE. It's not surprising either, as he was averaging 18 yards a reception through this first three games and then 27 yards a catch and about 100 yards a game in week 2 and 3 against Buffalo and NWE. We didn't get to see him at Tennessee as he was knocked out on the first player, but the following three games against Atlanta, Pitt and NWE he was drawing the attention of the defense. He still has the ability to beat that coverage a couple times a game as we saw against Pitt, Geno just needs to hit him when he does. I know I'm probably one of Hill's biggest supporters, but I truly feel if we have anyone else on this team that's capable of drawing double coverage, Hill will be able to be more consistent. No one likes him but the team misses Santonio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 No one likes him but the team misses Santonio. I like him and miss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I like him and miss him. You are nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 No one likes him but the team misses Santonio. Very true, well, besides Jif. Holmes is still a very good player and when given time, Geno's accuracy would actually matchup well with Holmes. I still loathe his first-down celebration and he's just a poison, but one that's currently needed. Finally investing in a #1 allows Hill to be in a supporting role and Kerley to stay in the slot. I believe you pointed it out, but not many people realize that AJ Green is what makes that receiving corp look so good; take him away and they become more average. One stud receiver can change the face of an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 You are nobody. That's mean. I thought you were the last person left around here who sorta liked me. Oh well, guess my time has finally ended here. Now its just a matter of....do I start a farewell thread or just ride out into the sunset without notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Very true, well, besides Jif. Holmes is still a very good player and when given time, Geno's accuracy would actually matchup well with Holmes. I still loathe his first-down celebration and he's just a poison, but one that's currently needed. Finally investing in a #1 allows Hill to be in a supporting role and Kerley to stay in the slot. I believe you pointed it out, but not many people realize that AJ Green is what makes that receiving corp look so good; take him away and they become more average. One stud receiver can change the face of an offense. Green is awesome, no doubt about it. But the Jets secondary struggled badly against the Titans too, there's no #1 there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 That's mean. I thought you were the last person left around here who sorta liked me. Oh well, guess my time has finally ended here. Now its just a matter of....do I start a farewell thread or just ride out into the sunset without notice. If there is no farewell thread, then it never happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Green is awesome, no doubt about it. But the Jets secondary struggled badly against the Titans too, there's no #1 there. I wasn't looking to absolve our defense, our secondary is not good. It was more a statement that getting one stud receiver can make a below average receiving corp look a lot better than it really is. You put a Dez Bryant, AJ Green or Julio Jones on this team and all of a sudden you hear people talk about what great complimentary pieces Hill, Kerley and Cumberland are. Speaking of teh weaponz, Winslow is eligible to come back after the Saints game/Bye week correct? It's having a solid bye week this year, it always seemed like we were getting stuck with having it much earlier in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 If there is no farewell thread, then it never happened! I'm wavering a little on this decision. The thought of how much joy it would bring TomShane is driving me to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I wasn't looking to absolve our defense, our secondary is not good. It was more a statement that getting one stud receiver can make a below average receiving corp look a lot better than it really is. You put a Dez Bryant, AJ Green or Julio Jones on this team and all of a sudden you hear people talk about what great complimentary pieces Hill, Kerley and Cumberland are. Speaking of teh weaponz, Winslow is eligible to come back after the Saints game/Bye week correct? It's having a solid bye week this year, it always seemed like we were getting stuck with having it much earlier in the season. Rex was used to having a CB shut down opposing #1's by themselves...allowing him to go nuts with blitz schemes and what not. We're blitzing this year with little results. Some has to do with veteran QB's figuring it out...and some has to do with our secondary sucking. Having a Revis or Cromartie was a big part of Rex's scheme and why it was so successful. Milliner looking totally lost hasnt helped matters. In theory going CB there was okay- but the kid cant play right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm wavering a little on this decision. The thought of how much joy it would bring TomShane is driving me to stay. T0mShane does not know how to handle joy. Rex was used to having a CB shut down opposing #1's by themselves...allowing him to go nuts with blitz schemes and what not. We're blitzing this year with little results. Some has to do with veteran QB's figuring it out...and some has to do with our secondary sucking. Having a Revis or Cromartie was a big part of Rex's scheme and why it was so successful. Milliner looking totally lost hasnt helped matters. In theory going CB there was okay- but the kid cant play right now. I don't think people are "figuring it out". Brady sure didn't look like he figured anything out in the second half and he has seen Rex D's as much as anybody. Sometimes the players have to make plays. In the Bengals game it looked like he was chucking it up there and the WR's were just getting the ball over the DB's. Gusys were around, but not making plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't think people are "figuring it out". Brady sure didn't look like he figured anything out in the second half and he has seen Rex D's as much as anybody. Sometimes the players have to make plays. In the Bengals game it looked like he was chucking it up there and the WR's were just getting the ball over the DB's. Gusys were around, but not making plays. Yup. players all suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacked4JetsFB Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 We don't need receivers. We need CBs. The goal of any season is to finish in the top 5 in defense. If our sucky CBs prevent us from doing that I'm gonna be pissed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 T0mShane does not know how to handle joy. I don't think people are "figuring it out". Brady sure didn't look like he figured anything out in the second half and he has seen Rex D's as much as anybody. Sometimes the players have to make plays. In the Bengals game it looked like he was chucking it up there and the WR's were just getting the ball over the DB's. Gusys were around, but not making plays. How Brady looked against the Jets is how he's looked mostly this season. The Pats WR's are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacked4JetsFB Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 How Brady looked against the Jets is how he's looked mostly this season. The Pats WR's are terrible. Weapinzzzz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacked4JetsFB Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 You sound like a scorned lover. Scorned? He'll no! Top five defense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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