How the Seahawks were built(and now hopefully, the Jets)

[Matt39]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000318407/article/how-the-seattle-seahawks-were-built

 

 

The Seahawks made the Super Bowl by not following the crowd. In an era of high-flying passing attacks, they built up a dominant, multi-faceted defense buttressed by a strong running game.

Coach Pete Carroll and general manager John Schenider see prospects differently than the rest of the league. They draft players in surprising spots, often raising the ire of the draftnik industrial complex. They take players that are "too light" or "in between positions."

 

» Only four Seahawks remain from the pre-Carroll era, although they are vital. Max Unger is a Pro Bowlcenter. Brandon Mebane and Red Bryant form the backbone of Seattle's stout rush defense. Carroll and Schneider made a dizzying amount of moves when they took over in 2010, but it's telling that they decided to award long-term contracts to Mebane and Bryant.

 

Self-scouting is one of the most underrated aspects of NFL organizations. The Seahawks were smart enough to know which inherited players were worth the money. You don't see a lot of ex-Seahawks making noise.

 

 

The Seahawks drafted an All-Pro (Thomas), two Pro Bowl players (Chancellor and Okung) and two other valuable contributors (Thurmond and Tate.) They traded for Marshawn Lynch at a deep discount; he's evolved into the second-best running back in the NFL. They also traded for Chris Clemons, a journeyman pass rusher that has been sensational in Seattle.

 

This was Seattle's vision. They loaded up their team -- especially their defense -- with physical players. TheSeahawks started building defensive depth everywhere, especially on the line and in the secondary. That 2010 crop set the stage for the team's dramatic climb to the league's upper crust.

 

» Not every Seahawks pick has been golden. In 2011, they tried to rebuild the offensive line with James Carpenter (first round) and John Moffit (third round). Those picks haven't panned out, and the Seahawkshave yet to get much production from the 2013 draft class.

 

» The back end of the 2011 draft, however, was incredible. K.J. Wright is one of the most versatile and underrated linebackers in football. Richard Sherman is a Defensive MVP candidate selected in the fifth round.Byron Maxwell and Malcolm Smith have played huge snaps for Seattle down the stretch this year.

 

Maxwell is a perfect example of how the Seahawks do business. He quietly stayed on the sideline for nearly two and a half seasons. When he was called upon this season to replace Brandon Browner and Walter Thurmond, Maxwell was somehow an upgrade over both of them. Maxwell might be more physical than even Sherman at the line of scrimmage. He was ready for his moment, and that comes back to coaching.

 

» The Seahawks adjusted their approach last offseason. After three years of steadily building their roster, they went for broke. They put some finishing veteran touches on a team that was ready for theSuper Bowl.

 

Michael Bennett's one-year contract was the single best bargain basement deal by any team in free agency last year. Other teams were scared away by his shoulder injury, but the Seahawks was happy to take on the short-term risk. (Bennett figures to strike it rich as a free agent this year.)

 

Cliff Avril was another reasonably priced free agent, while Tarvaris Jackson upgraded the team's backup quarterback spot. The trade for Percy Harvin has been a bust thus far, but it reflected a team that was in position to take a chance with multiple draft picks. As poor as that trade looks, Carroll and Schneider must be happy he's available for their inconsistent offenseSuper Bowl Sunday.

 

» We made it this far without talking about Russell Wilson. Finding your franchise quarterback in the third round changes everything, and the Seahawks will admit they would have taken Wilson earlier if they knew he would be this good.

 

They key is that Carroll, who promotes competition above all, recognized his third-round pick was a far better option than his $6-million free agent signing: Matt Flynn. Wilson's low salary allowed theSeahawks to take more chances in free agency, but that advantage has been overstated by some. You still have to spend (and draft) smartly. No one has done it better than Seattle.

[PFSIKH]

Lets see how smart they are when they have to start paying Wilson and Sherman.

 

Same for the 49ers with Kapernick.

 

It is easier to build depth when the most important position is counting less than 1% against the cap. 

 

Lets see how good Seattle's D is when Wilson is count 5, 8, 10 or million against the cap.   

[CTM]

Yes, and if Tarvaris Jackson or Matt Flynn were at QB they'd be drafting ahead of us this year.

[Sperm Edwards]

Forgot about whiffing on a pair of $40M WRs.  

 

Difference between the '09-10 Jets and the '12-13 Seahawks:  Jets drafted Sanchez, Seahawks drafted Wilson.  The end.

[T0mShane]

Yeah, Russ Wilson has really dragged that team to The Bowl on his back.

[T0mShane]

In all seriousness, Pete Carroll is to DBs what Rex is to DL. Because he gets low-dollar corners to play like All-Pros, they can spend on pass rushers, which equals a great defense. Rex gets first round DL, makes them play like first round DL, then supplements them with expensive corners. Not as nifty.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yeah, Russ Wilson has really dragged that team to The Bowl on his back.

 

Is he a walking 3 & out or worse? 

 

The rest of the teams were comparable overall talent.

[Matt39]

Forgot about whiffing on a pair of $40M WRs.  

 

Difference between the '09-10 Jets and the '12-13 Seahawks:  Jets drafted Sanchez, Seahawks drafted Wilson.  The end.

 

Wilson's really been on fire this January.

[Matt39]

Yes, and if Tarvaris Jackson or Matt Flynn were at QB they'd be drafting ahead of us this year.

 

Who did they trade up with?

[Matt39]

Is he a walking 3 & out or worse? 

 

The rest of the teams were comparable overall talent.

 

We'll see if the Seahawks pass defense can hold Peyton under 350 yards. The 2009 Jets could not.

[T0mShane]

Is he a walking 3 & out or worse?

The rest of the teams were comparable overall talent.

If the Jets drafted Wilson, he'd never see the field except to run the Wildcat for two snaps. Maybe they'd let him cover punts.

[Sperm Edwards]

Wilson's really been on fire this January.

 

So because his stats don't show gaudy numbers you think that does nothing for the ground game? Or that this, in turn, keeps the defense off the field? You see no connection to these things whatsoever, and believe the Seahawks would be in the superbowl with Mark Sanchez in Russell Wilson's place?

 

lol

[Sperm Edwards]

If the Jets drafted Wilson, he'd never see the field except to run the Wildcat for two snaps. Maybe they'd let him cover punts.

 

You posted it so it much be true.  The Jets would have had to draft Wilson in round 2 to get him, and the Jets totally have a history of never playing their high draft picks.  You are so right. 

[Matt39]

So because his stats don't show gaudy numbers you think that does nothing for the ground game? Or that this, in turn, keeps the defense off the field? You see no connection to these things whatsoever, and believe the Seahawks would be in the superbowl with Mark Sanchez in Russell Wilson's place?

 

lol

 

You brought up Sanchez, not me. Their defense is better than ours was in 2009 as is their running game. Wilson's a good player(I think he's awesome fwiw) but he's not the main reason why this team is winning games this January.

 

Marshawn Lynch is dominating because of Russell Wilson? No. Moreno yes, Lynch....not even close

[Sperm Edwards]

You brought up Sanchez, not me. Their defense is better than ours was in 2009 as is their running game. Wilson's a good player(I think he's awesome fwiw) but he's not the main reason why this team is winning games this January.

 

Marshawn Lynch is dominating because of Russell Wilson? No. Moreno yes, Lynch....not even close

 

I brought up the obvious difference between their team and ours of a few years ago.

 

Their defense and running game are both aided by a stud QB instead of a garbage QB.  No rational football fan believes otherwise.

[T0mShane]

You posted it so it much be true. The Jets would have had to draft Wilson in round 2 to get him, and the Jets totally have a history of never playing their high draft picks. You are so right.

No, the Rex Jets are very courageous and innovative on offense and don't allow draft position to dictate which players start at all.

[Matt39]

I brought up the obvious difference between their team and ours of a few years ago.

 

Their defense and running game are both aided by a stud QB instead of a garbage QB.  No rational football fan believes otherwise.

 

Its the opposite imo, but to each his own. Wilson hasn't been asked to do much this postseason, because the Seahawks can afford to play conservative.

 

The Jets had the same formula in 2009 till Peyton went nuts against our secondary. We'll see what Seattle can do on Sunday. It helps their kicker is a stud too. We had to punt that postseason with Feely and he left 6 points on the board as the placekicker.

[T0mShane]

I brought up the obvious difference between their team and ours of a few years ago.

Their defense and running game are both aided by a stud QB instead of a garbage QB. No rational football fan believes otherwise.

That time Russell Wilson turned a fifth round pick into the best corner in football.

[Sperm Edwards]

That time Russell Wilson turned a fifth round pick into the best corner in football.

 

It matters what round he was drafted during the games?

 

We had the best corner in football.  They have the best corner in football.  

[Lizard King]

I brought up the obvious difference between their team and ours of a few years ago.

Their defense and running game are both aided by a stud QB instead of a garbage QB. No rational football fan believes otherwise.

Their defensive and offensive speed and athleticism is so far and away from our athleticism its scary. People say they play power football, I argue they play fast football with power. Big difference. They aren't road graders. They are tremendous athletes. Especially on both sides of the line. It's amazing to watch.

[Matt39]

Their defensive and offensive speed and athleticism is so far and away from our athleticism its scary. People say they play power football, I argue they play fast football with power. Big difference. They aren't road graders. They are tremendous athletes. Especially on both sides of the line. It's amazing to watch.

 

"no rational football fan believes this"

[Sperm Edwards]

Its the opposite imo, but to each his own. Wilson hasn't been asked to do much this postseason, because the Seahawks can afford to play conservative.

 

The Jets had the same formula in 2009 till Peyton went nuts against our secondary. We'll see what Seattle can do on Sunday. It helps their kicker is a stud too. We had to punt that postseason with Feely and he left 6 points on the board as the placekicker.

 

Peyton went nuts against our secondary, in part, because we couldn't stay on the field on offense once Greene got hurt.  That is my recollection.  It is also my recollection that we didn't score any points in the 2nd half on offense.  Teams can win games even when the defense isn't having a great (or good) game.  

 

But yeah, we'll see what happens in the game.  

[Matt39]

Peyton went nuts against our secondary, in part, because we couldn't stay on the field on offense once Greene got hurt.  That is my recollection.  It is also my recollection that we didn't score any points in the 2nd half on offense.  Teams can win games even when the defense isn't having a great (or good) game.  

 

But yeah, we'll see what happens in the game.  

 

Jones was finished so the Greene injury hurt, yes. Lito Sheppard was useless as a player and it finally caught up to the Jets. Feely missed two field goals. A lot of players had their hand in that loss.

 

Peyton throws for 377 at home it doesn't matter who the QB on the other side is...especially if you're missing FG's.

[T0mShane]

It matters what round he was drafted during the games?

We had the best corner in football. They have the best corner in football.

The difference between the Seahawks and the Jets is that they produce guys like Sherman and Chancellor and Baldwin, which makes it easier to overcome giving boneheaded contracts to hack wideouts or whiffing on a high OL pick. As a cap aficionado, you know better than most how important it is to cultivate high-level production from non-premium draft slots.

[Sperm Edwards]

Their defensive and offensive speed and athleticism is so far and away from our athleticism its scary. People say they play power football, I argue they play fast football with power. Big difference. They aren't road graders. They are tremendous athletes. Especially on both sides of the line. It's amazing to watch.

 

Whatever.  We both had stingy defenses (despite ours being put into lots of bad positions by our bad QB).  Style points don't count.  Our D in '09 was sick.  Hard to know what would have been (even with Sanchez) had Lito Sheppard not decided to stop playing football.

 

But even still, to say the rest of the team looks no better when you have a stud QB replacing garbage at QB is not realistic IMO.  Everything then becomes about what the defense did or did not do, and they're pretty much required to hold everyone to 15 points or less to win.

[Lizard King]

Jones was finished so the Greene injury hurt, yes. Lito Sheppard was useless as a player and it finally caught up to the Jets. Feely missed two field goals. A lot of players had their hand in that loss.

Peyton throws for 377 at home it doesn't matter who the QB on the other side is...especially if you're missing FG's.

Bingo. Our secondary cost that game

[Sperm Edwards]

Jones was finished so the Greene injury hurt, yes. Lito Sheppard was useless as a player and it finally caught up to the Jets. Feely missed two field goals. A lot of players had their hand in that loss.

 

Peyton throws for 377 at home it doesn't matter who the QB on the other side is...especially if you're missing FG's.

 

It matters.  He's on offense less if the QB on our side doesn't keep getting off the field.  Blame Greene for not being there, blame Jones for being there.  Blame the defense for having the best QB ever have a great 2nd half.  Blame everyone except Mark Sanchez.

[T0mShane]

Whatever. We both had stingy defenses (despite ours being put into lots of bad positions by our bad QB). Style points don't count. Our D in '09 was sick. Hard to know what would have been (even with Sanchez) had Lito Sheppard not decided to stop playing football.

But even still, to say the rest of the team looks no better when you have a stud QB replacing garbage at QB is not realistic IMO. Everything then becomes about what the defense did or did not do, and they're pretty much required to hold everyone to 15 points or less to win.

You're completely discounting how ballsy it was from an organizational standpoint to start Wilson in the first place. There is zero chance he gets that opportunity here.

[Sperm Edwards]

Bingo. Our secondary cost that game

 

They clearly did as the game played out.  But it has happened before, in NFL history, where a team can still win a game when the defense doesn't completely dominate their opponent all game long.

 

If we put points on the board on offense in the 2nd half, you can't know that the game would have played out exactly the same way.  

[Sperm Edwards]

You're completely discounting how ballsy it was from an organizational standpoint to start Wilson in the first place. There is zero chance he gets that opportunity here.

 

You're completely discounting how lucky Seattle got with him.  The same geniuses with the same keen eye for QB talent decided Matt Flynn was a franchise QB.

 

Flynn was getting beaten in camp which means it's obvious that the difference between the two is only going to grow, and at an accelerated rate.  I credit them for doing it, since it succeeded.  However there's no evidence that starting Wilson in game 1 in September last year made the team (or Wilson) any better than holding a clipboard for a month and then starting him in October after Flynn fell flat on his face.  Certainly a hard argument to suggest it made the difference between the superbowl or no superbowl this year.

[Sperm Edwards]

"no rational football fan believes this"

 

Tell us again how it's all about the WR weapons and the QB is just there for the ride, with little difference among them all.

[Matt39]

It matters.  He's on offense less if the QB on our side doesn't keep getting off the field.  Blame Greene for not being there, blame Jones for being there.  Blame the defense for having the best QB ever have a great 2nd half.  Blame everyone except Mark Sanchez.

 

Im not absolving Sanchez of anything- but I do get he was a rookie too. Sanchez on the road in a title game as a rookie was never going to be in our favor. If Feely makes those two kicks thats 23 instead of 17. Not terrible on the road. But yes the offense sh*t the bed in the second half and the secondary got abused.

[Matt39]

Tell us again how it's all about the WR weapons and the QB is just there for the ride, with little difference among them all.

 

This playoffs so far, Wilson has been along for the ride.

 

Wilson was a big part of Seattle's success this season though. He's a great player on a great team. It's never been about one player- you seem to think otherwise.

[Matt39]

This was never intended to be a Sanchez thread either- just some positive hope for the Idzik tenure. Emulating Seattle is a good thing.

[T0mShane]

You're completely discounting how lucky Seattle got with him. The same geniuses with the same keen eye for QB talent decided Matt Flynn was a franchise QB.

Flynn was getting beaten in camp which means it's obvious that the difference between the two is only going to grow, and at an accelerated rate. I credit them for doing it, since it succeeded. However there's no evidence that starting Wilson in game 1 in September last year made the team (or Wilson) any better than holding a clipboard for a month and then starting him in October after Flynn fell flat on his face. Certainly a hard argument to suggest it made the difference between the superbowl or no superbowl this year.

It wasn't bad luck that led the Jets to 1. Draft Sanchez, 2. Grant him the starting job, 3. Surround him with punk exiles 4. Hire Sparano 5. Bring in Tebow 6. Keep running him out there long after he was clearly toast. It was mismanagement. You should be crediting the Seahawks for not doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on their mistakes. Pretty sure Pete Carroll isn't walking around with a Matt Flynn jersey tattoo these days.