Which HC decision was worse?

[Charlie Brown]

Precisely.

While we might have made some noise in the playoffs, we weren't winning the Super Bowl this year, Special Teams and a slow Defense would have been our undoing.  The way to look at this is if we opened the year 1-4 and finished 8-8 we'd all be very happy right now, very optimistic about the turnaround.  But because we opened so strongly and finished so strongly, perceptions are all out of whack, it's now like Mets Fever around here where the loveable losers got hot and got on a run and made it to the finals.  The Jets were not that type of team, Ivory did not play like Cespedis down the stretch and Fitzpatrick was not going to become Daniel Murphy in the playoffs.

Yeah, we blew it in Buffalo.  We were allowed to be pissed for two weeks.  But now, we should see that 10-6 was f-cking awesome, we beat the Giants and Patriots dramatically, and we open 2016 as one of the Top 5 teams in the AFC if not just on the strength of our passing game; that sentence right there should have us laughing and jumping for joy alone, enough with the negativity.

SAR I

Ummmmmm this

Great post.  Jets fans are like all fans I guess way to emotional.  This was a first year for this regime and I love the fact that Bowles didn't say he was perfect but rather he had to get better, much better, than last year because we didn't win a SB. 

I ask when did we ever have such a HC act and say such a thing? I would argue never.  Whether Bowles turns out to be the real deal or not is still up  for debate but the fact that the Jets are headed in the right direction for a change is not really debateable  

So folks should enjoy themselves for a moment it hasn't been like this for a  long long time around here. 

[BowlesMovement]

the Rex "coaching" decision was not a coaching decision at all. He didn't pick the groceries. His choice was Sanchez or Clemens or Brunnell. "A vet like Fitz" being available who exactly was that? And the team had to trade for Fitz. Pushing all in with Mark, that's more of a Woody/Tannenbaum failure than a Rex failure. 

If this is true,  why did we go from a very solid roster when Rex took over to an awful roster in 5 years with the same GM and scouting department that was there? The only difference was Rex.

Riddle me that one batman.

[BowlesMovement]

Clemens would have been a far better choice to start that Sanchez. Sanchez had zero business starting in 09, zero. He should have been starting at USC in 09, Rex was too busy trying to figure out how to get Mark to bone his wife to realize that.

 

[#27TheDominator]

Clemens would have been a far better choice to start that Sanchez. Sanchez had zero business starting in 09, zero. He should have been starting at USC in 09, Rex was too busy trying to figure out how to get Mark to bone his wife to realize that.

 

Have you ever seen Clemens play?  You want to talk about winning in spite of the QB?  Clemens was so bad that the one game he did play in 2009 that he barely put up 100 yards passing against one of the worst defenses in the league.  I am no Sanchez fan, but he is considerably better than Clemens and he has been since day 1.  There is a reason Sanchez gets $5M/year and Clemens gets $1.5M.

[BowlesMovement]

Have you ever seen Clemens play?  You want to talk about winning in spite of the QB?  Clemens was so bad that the one game he did play in 2009 that he barely put up 100 yards passing against one of the worst defenses in the league.  I am no Sanchez fan, but he is considerably better than Clemens and he has been since day 1.  There is a reason Sanchez gets $5M/year and Clemens gets $1.5M.

Its more than just about who was better, which is still up for debate, Sanchez was terrible for most of the 2009 regular season. Its more about the right way to develop your QB. Most people believed Sanchez should have still been in College, he had so little experience even in college, there was no way he should have been starting right away in the NFL. He was drafted too high, but that is not a reason to make another mistake. In poker that is called throwing good money after bad money. It was terrible on so many levels.

[#27TheDominator]

Its more than just about who was better, which is still up for debate, Sanchez was terrible for most of the 2009 regular season. Its more about the right way to develop your QB. Most people believed Sanchez should have still been in College, he had so little experience even in college, there was no way he should have been starting right away in the NFL. He was drafted too high, but that is not a reason to make another mistake. In poker that is called throwing good money after bad money. It was terrible on so many levels.

They got so close, that this discussion is ridiculous.  Chad Pennington was properly developed.  How did that work out?  I don't give a **** about developing Sanchez, I car about wins and how far we can get in the playoffs.  It is obvious that the Jets made the proper decision to go on that run when they did.  It didn't work, but as calculated moves go it made a sh*tload more sense than Leon Johnson throwing a halfback option in field goal range. 

[BowlesMovement]

They got so close, that this discussion is ridiculous.  Chad Pennington was properly developed.  How did that work out?  I don't give a **** about developing Sanchez, I car about wins and how far we can get in the playoffs.  It is obvious that the Jets made the proper decision to go on that run when they did.  It didn't work, but as calculate moves go it made a sh*tload more sense than Leon Johnson throwing a halfback option in field goal range. 

OK, thanks for confirming for me you don't understand anything about the NFL, and letting me know I don't need to waste my time debating you. Its pretty clear why you love Rexy so much. Carry on.

[nj meadowlands]

Herm having Chad fall down and not getting more yardage for Brien in 2004 was an all-time boner

[#27TheDominator]

Bill Cowher, Ken Whisenhunt, and John Harbaugh totally agree with your assessment. I mean they don't understand how the NFL works. How else could they expect QBs who had so much college experience at powerhouse schools like Miami of Ohio and the Delaware Blue Hens to be prepared to lead a team in the NFL at such a young age? I'm sure you will have some amazing retort about how Tommy Maddox started week one for the Steelers (LOL) or that Flacco was prepared from his season riding the pine for Pitt.

[BowlesMovement]

Bill Cowher, Ken Whisenhunt, and John Harbaugh totally agree with your assessment. I mean they don't understand how the NFL works. How else could they expect QBs who had so much college experience at powerhouse schools like Miami of Ohio and the Delaware Blue Hens to be prepared to lead a team in the NFL at such a young age? I'm sure you will have some amazing retort about how Tommy Maddox started week one for the Steelers (LOL) or that Flacco was prepared from his season riding the pine for Pitt.

Go Rex! He was da greatest!!

[nyjunc]

Thoughts?

a vet like Fitz that couldn't even get a loaded team to the playoffs this year, it's too bad we didn't get him in 2009 then we wouldn't have those 2 title game apps to look back on.

[nyjunc]

Herm having Chad fall down and not getting more yardage for Brien in 2004 was an all-time boner

Brien missed further kick by inches moments earlier.  that play had no impact, the K just shanked it.

[#27TheDominator]

Brien missed further kick by inches moments earlier.  that play had no impact, the K just shanked it.

It doesn't make the decision any more idiotic.  Why lose yards to kick?  I don't even think they switched hashes or anything.

[nyjunc]

It doesn't make the decision any more idiotic.  Why lose yards to kick?  I don't even think they switched hashes or anything.

they were putting where the k felt most comfortable, did I like losing 2 yeards? No? we could have handed off and maybe gained a yard or 2 or at worst not lose yards but the K has to make that kick.

[pajet]

I picked Rex.  In a vacuum the stupidest was Vance Joseph, however considering all of the options, the Sanchez decision had the most long term detriment to the franchise

[nyjunc]

I picked Rex.  In a vacuum the stupidest was Vance Joseph, however considering all of the options, the Sanchez decision had the most long term detriment to the franchise

yes, it really sucked having 2 chances to reach the SB with him.  the bad decision on sanchez was stripping all of the talent he had to throw to after 2010 and expecting him to get better.

[nyjunc]

On each of these choices:

Rex handing starting job to mark, made 2 title games when we couldn't even make playoffs year before w/ HOfer.  Obvious correct decision.

Bowles giving Ivory 6 carries and letting Fitz throw.  something was up w/ Ivory, that's the only explanation. m the wind did not affect Buffalo and that's not why we lost.  the team being unprepared and not making adjustments is why we lost.

Favre was fine in 2008.  the injury was an excuse.  Mangini did nothing wrong, Favre sabotaged our season.

we were brutal in 1995, I am not sure who the other choices were but to start a converted QB in his first game wasn't a good decision.  I hope he is as good of a DC in Miami as he was a DB for us.

[pajet]

How about taking a knee before trying a long game winning field goal in Pittsburgh?

There's my winner...can't believe I didn't think of that.   Abosolute worst.  I wanted him fired before the team left Pittsburgh.

[nj meadowlands]

Brien missed further kick by inches moments earlier.  that play had no impact, the K just shanked it.

Doesn't matter. If made, it still would've been one of the 2 or 3 longest kicks in Heinz field history at the time.  Kickers are mental midgets, and they did him no favors.

[pajet]

they were putting where the k felt most comfortable, did I like losing 2 yeards? No? we could have handed off and maybe gained a yard or 2 or at worst not lose yards but the K has to make that kick.

I vividly recall a stat being posted that at the time no kicker had made a 40+ yard field goal in that direction on that field.   So, from 40+ yards out, it makes perfect sense to take a knee, lose yardage and ask your kicker do something no one else has been able to do, especially when a screen to martin in the flat probably would have picked up 5 or 6 yards and caught the Steelers flat footed.  And ironically, the only reason we were in that game is we watched Marty Shottenheimer make the exact same gaffe against us in SD the week before.

[nyjunc]

Doesn't matter. If made, it still would've been one of the 2 or 3 longest kicks in Heinz field history at the time.  Kickers are mental midgets, and they did him no favors.

That was 2004, Heinz Field opened in 2001.  there wasn't much history in the building to fall back on that silly stat.  a week later in the same EZ Vinatieri nailed a near 50 yarder that would have been good from 60.  that was the worst excuse being offered at the time.

[pajet]

yes, it really sucked having 2 chances to reach the SB with him.  the bad decision on sanchez was stripping all of the talent he had to throw to after 2010 and expecting him to get better.

Don't get excited...I am one of the few that actually liked Rex...I just think the more prudent long term decision would have been to have him sit for a year...As for whether or not that is on Tanny or rex or woody, I would agree with the sentiment that it is up for debate.

[nyjunc]

I vividly recall a stat being posted that at the time no kicker had made a 40+ yard field goal in that direction on that field.   So, from 40+ yards out, it makes perfect sense to take a knee, lose yardage and ask your kicker do something no one else has been able to do, especially when a screen to martin in the flat probably would have picked up 5 or 6 yards and caught the Steelers flat footed.  And ironically, the only reason we were in that game is we watched Marty Shottenheimer make the exact same gaffe against us in SD the week before.

Heinz Field opened in 2001, the game was played during the 2004 season.  there weren't a lot of attempts.  a week later into the same EZ Adam Vinatieri nailed an almost 50 yarder.  that stat meant nothing.

 

what if we attempt a screen Curtis gets hit as he catches it 5 yards back? then what would fans have said?  the bottom line is the K missed a makeable FG.

actually, the week before never should have went to OT.  if not for a roughing the passer penalty.

[nyjunc]

Don't get excited...I am one of the few that actually liked Rex...I just think the more prudent long term decision would have been to have him sit for a year...As for whether or not that is on Tanny or rex or woody, I would agree with the sentiment that it is up for debate.

long term the best thing would have been to bring more talent in around him.  when they surrounded him w/ talent early he succeeded then after 2010 we allowed 2 of his main targets to leave and gave him 3 of his top 5 weapons that would be out of football after that season.  then in 2012 we had no depth and after injuries to Holmes and keller his main weapons were Chaz Schilens, Clyde gates and Stephen Hill. 

[BowlesMovement]

long term the best thing would have been to bring more talent in around him.  when they surrounded him w/ talent early he succeeded then after 2010 we allowed 2 of his main targets to leave and gave him 3 of his top 5 weapons that would be out of football after that season.  then in 2012 we had no depth and after injuries to Holmes and keller his main weapons were Chaz Schilens, Clyde gates and Stephen Hill. 

This I agree with, but you do know that these were 100% Rex decisions right? 

[nyjunc]

This I agree with, but you do know that these were 100% Rex decisions right? 

I don't believe that.  we had some cap issues, we went for it from 2008-2010 and we had to make some tough decisions.  He was part of the decision making and obviously bringing Mason in was his idea which didn't work out but to solely blame him would be unfair.

[pajet]

Heinz Field opened in 2001, the game was played during the 2004 season.  there weren't a lot of attempts.  a week later into the same EZ Adam Vinatieri nailed an almost 50 yarder.  that stat meant nothing.

 

what if we attempt a screen Curtis gets hit as he catches it 5 yards back? then what would fans have said?  the bottom line is the K missed a makeable FG.

actually, the week before never should have went to OT.  if not for a roughing the passer penalty.

 

3 seasons, plus however many playoff games Pitt had is a fairly decent sample size.  We didn't have the best kicker in the league, we had an above average kicker who made most of his big kicks and was scapegoated for that came.

The great CM is a HoF.  I sure he would have been smart enough to slap the ball to the ground if there was nothing there.

Don't remember the details of the referenced SD game other than the exact same scenario occurring and don't care to look it up, point is the decision and result happened which should have been been in the back of hermi's mind

[BowlesMovement]

I don't believe that.  we had some cap issues, we went for it from 2008-2010 and we had to make some tough decisions.  He was part of the decision making and obviously bringing Mason in was his idea which didn't work out but to solely blame him would be unfair.

Interesting, we had cap issues and had to let go of our offensive weapons but miraculously had enough cap room to go HARD after Namdi, and that was NOT Rex's decision?? Those were 100% Rex's decisions. He told Tanny and Woody that if he got Namdi he would win the SB in 2011.

[pajet]

long term the best thing would have been to bring more talent in around him.  when they surrounded him w/ talent early he succeeded then after 2010 we allowed 2 of his main targets to leave and gave him 3 of his top 5 weapons that would be out of football after that season.  then in 2012 we had no depth and after injuries to Holmes and keller his main weapons were Chaz Schilens, Clyde gates and Stephen Hill. 

Don't disagree with any of this the receiving core both he and Geno had to deal with was a crime.

[nyjunc]

 

3 seasons, plus however many playoff games Pitt had is a fairly decent sample size.  We didn't have the best kicker in the league, we had an above average kicker who made most of his big kicks and was scapegoated for that came.

The great CM is a HoF.  I sure he would have been smart enough to slap the ball to the ground if there was nothing there.

Don't remember the details of the referenced SD game other than the exact same scenario occurring and don't care to look it up, point is the decision and result happened which should have been been in the back of hermi's mind

unless those #s show how many attempted from that side of the field and what the conditions were they were meaningless in only a few seasons.

HOFers never have negative plays.

I am telling you what happened in SD, their K also missed a makeable FG but that game doesn't get to OT if Eric Barton doesn't rough Brees after we stopped them at the end of regulation.

Interesting, we had cap issues and had to let go of our offensive weapons but miraculously had enough cap room to go HARD after Namdi, and that was NOT Rex's decision?? Those were 100% Rex's decisions. He told Tanny and Woody that if he got Namdi he would win the SB in 2011.

the rules were crazy pre and post lockout which hurt us for a few years.  they made room to get Nnamdi and yes Rex was leading that charge.  Remember we would have saved w/ Cro going elsewhere.  they all made bad decisions post lockout.

[BowlesMovement]

the rules were crazy pre and post lockout which hurt us for a few years.  they made room to get Nnamdi and yes Rex was leading that charge.  Remember we would have saved w/ Cro going elsewhere.  they all made bad decisions post lockout.

Rex destroyed any hope Sanchez had of becoming a viable QB option for us with his decisions and his personal greed in the offseason before 2011. His desire to rebuild the 85 Bears not only destroyed Sanchez in 11 and for good in 12, but it also did not work. Rex fans need to come to grips with this reality.

[flgreen]

Lol, wrong as usual. Rex TOTALLY chose Sanchez. He told Tanny to get him. It was well publisized

Of coursethe HC is going to have some input but GM is responsible for the draft selections ultimately.  

 

Do you think you can provide some of the links to the WELL PUBLICIZED articles at the time that proved that Rex  forced Tanny to select Sanchez.  I don't remember them at all from the time. 

[nyjunc]

Rex destroyed any hope Sanchez had of becoming a viable QB option for us with his decisions and his personal greed in the offseason before 2011. His desire to rebuild the 85 Bears not only destroyed Sanchez in 11 and for good in 12, but it also did not work. Rex fans need to come to grips with this reality.

he played a role. 

[BowlesMovement]

he played a role. 

He was the writer, director and lead actor.

[nyjunc]

He was the writer, director and lead actor.

does he get any credit for making the moves for Edwards and Holmes?