An inside look at how Jets QB Christian Hackenberg reinvented himself

[sourceworx]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i'd rather have a QB with mechanics/footwork issues than a QB who can't make reads when the defenses are flying around.

Hacks' problems are more fixable than Geno's. 

Exactly. The hardest thing for a QB to get a handle on in the NFL is the mental aspect of the game. Hackenberg has it. Fix the footwork, and you have yourself a QB.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i'd rather have a QB with mechanics/footwork issues than a QB who can't make reads when the defenses are flying around.

Hacks' problems are more fixable than Geno's. 

Can you provide an example, b?

[PepPep]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I also think he's a mush mentally and the thought of having to watch his pasty, red-cheeked face choking back tears after losses for the next three years makes me ill.

I don't see him as that type of player. Quite the opposite. Everything I have heard and read about this kid tells me he is mentally tough, a great competitor and has great leadership skills. 

I don't know if he will develop into the real deal, but I certainly doubt he will wilt under the pressure or not have the mental toughness to 'cut it' in the NFL. That will not be his undoing. Yes, he's got a pasty, red-cheeked face. But I highly doubt any crying will be going on after losses. 

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i'd rather have a QB with mechanics/footwork issues than a QB who can't make reads when the defenses are flying around.

Hacks' problems are more fixable than Geno's. 

Did Hack show that the was a great D reader his last two years in PSU?  The issue for many of the snarky doubters of hackenburg like myself has never really been that is he worth trying to develop as a major project because he has upside.  It's that we used a 2nd rounder on such a developmental QB with a LOT to fix.

Heck I think the stoopid Bills beat us on this one, using a 4th rounder for a project with upside in Cardale Jones.

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Exactly. The hardest thing for a QB to get a handle on in the NFL is the mental aspect of the game. Hackenberg has it. Fix the footwork, and you have yourself a QB.

A guy whose major excuse is that his mechanics are sh*t because he was shell shocked by bad oline play for two years means he is strong mentally?  Of what I've seen he has a good work ethic, has the size and the arm, other than that he has shown zero the last two years in anything else to do with Qbing.

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Can you provide an example, b?

after giving it some basic searching, no i cannot find another instance where a 5 star Prep QB had an awesome freshman year, the program got Sanduskied, he didn't transfer, and was beat up, and then reclaimed. 

 

Here's an interesting article about all the 5 star prep QBs though. 

 

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/grading-5-star-qbs-past-decade/

 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Did Hack show that the was a great D reader his last two years in PSU?  

Why are we only talking about his last 2 years? The program lost scholarships and their head coach. The offensive coaching during those years would have made Paul Hackett blush. 

[sourceworx]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I'm trashing him because he can't throw a football correctly and talking about his feet is the height of stupidity. I also think he's a mush mentally and the thought of having to watch his pasty, red-cheeked face choking back tears after losses for the next three years makes me ill. The Paxton Lynch thing simply has a chance to be an amazing footnote in Jets misery history and is not the basis for my disapproval of the Hackenberg pick.

The guy got the sh!t beat out of him the last two years. PSU's pass protection was basically non-existent. 

Watch any game where a QB gets beat up.  You'll see his mechanics and timing progressively get worse over the course of that game (this will happen to even the best QBs). 

Hackenberg dealt with that every week for two seasons. 

This isn't Tim Tebow, whose myriad of issues made him anything but an NFL QB. If they fix Hackenberg's footwork, then he has everything anyone would want in a QB.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I don't see him as that type of player. Quite the opposite. Everything I have heard and read about this kid tells me he is mentally tough, a great competitor and has great leadership skills. 

I don't know if he will develop into the real deal, but I certainly doubt he will wilt under the pressure or not have the mental toughness to 'cut it' in the NFL. That will not be his undoing. Yes, he's got a pasty, red-cheeked face. But I highly doubt any crying will be going on after losses. 

I'll bet you a dollar he cries on camera within his first three starts.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

after giving it some basic searching, no i cannot find another instance where a 5 star Prep QB had an awesome freshman year, the program got Sanduskied, he didn't transfer, and was beat up, and then reclaimed. 

 

Here's an interesting article about all the 5 star prep QBs though. 

 

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/grading-5-star-qbs-past-decade/

 

Don't be coy. I want an example of a guy who never hit 60% of his passes due to "mechanics," but then turned it all around on the pro level because they fixed his mechanics.

[sourceworx]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

A guy whose major excuse is that his mechanics are sh*t because he was shell shocked by bad oline play for two years means he is strong mentally?  Of what I've seen he has a good work ethic, has the size and the arm, other than that he has shown zero the last two years in anything else to do with Qbing.

If a QB (any QB) gets hit often, you're going to eventually see their mechanics and timing degrade. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

The guy got the sh!t beat out of him the last two years. PSU's pass protection was basically non-existent. 

Watch any game where a QB gets beat up.  You'll see his mechanics and timing progressively get worse over the course of that game (this will happen to even the best QBs). 

Hackenberg dealt with that every week for two seasons. 

This isn't Tim Tebow, whose myriad of issues made him anything but an NFL QB. If they fix Hackenberg's footwork, then he has everything anyone would want in a QB.

Here's the thing: he's going to get beat up in the pros, too. QBs gets pressured on every passing play. They get hit a lot. 

[PepPep]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'll bet you a dollar he cries on camera within his first three starts.

Really putting your money where your mouth is with that one dollar. lol. 

Seriously though, I'm just curious why you think he is so mentally weak. Is it b/c he got so beat up the last couple of seasons at PSU?

 I just have not seen that at all from him and it doesn't really fit his character make up when you hear him in interviews and read about him in draft profiles. 

[sourceworx]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Here's the thing: he's going to get beat up in the pros, too. QBs gets pressured on every passing play. They get hit a lot. 

Did you ever actually watch him at PSU?

There's getting pressured by a defense, and there's getting beat up by a defense.  He got beat up every week. 

[sourceworx]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Don't be coy. I want an example of a guy who never hit 60% of his passes due to "mechanics," but then turned it all around on the pro level because they fixed his mechanics.

You're right, the issues bit brought up had zero to do with anything regarding Hackenberg's play.  

While I find the fact that he stuck it out with PSU admirable, it was the worst thing that he could have done for himself.  He should have transferred when Bill O'Brien left.

[PepPep]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Here's the thing: he's going to get beat up in the pros, too. QBs gets pressured on every passing play. They get hit a lot. 

Yes, but you cannot compare that PSU O-line to ANY NFL O-line. They were just absolutely awful. I mean, terrible. The Jets o-line is a dream come true for Hack and its not even one of the top O-lines in the NFL. Sure, Hack will feel pressure from opposing defenses, and he will probably get sacked like every other QB in the NFL. But I'm not nec. concerned about him getting 'beat up' b/c he's holding on to the ball too long or will somehow wilt under the pressure after being 'shell-shocked'. 

 

15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

A guy whose major excuse is that his mechanics are sh*t because he was shell shocked by bad oline play for two years means he is strong mentally?

I don't think the two are nec. related. Yes, he was hammered due to awful o-line play. He also had bad receivers that could not get open after Robinson went Pro. I mean, the talent overall dropped off considerably at PSU after the scandal. Their RB (forget his name) was actually a pleasant surprise and took a lot of pressure off of Hack. 

And yes, having to rush your footwork and your throws and immediately look at pressure in your face when the ball is hiked WILL mess with your footwork, make you scramble early and ruin your ability to go through progressions.

But that DOES NOT nec. make you weaker mentally. It can go both ways. You can wilt and start giving up on plays, holding on to the ball, throwing INTs, even when you DO have time. We saw some of this from Sanchez in the Pros.

But it can also make you stronger mentally, more prepared for worst case scenario, if you will. I doubt Hack EVER sees another terrible O-line like the one he did his last two years at Penn State. 

So I'm just not sure how the two have a direct cause and effect relationship in this case.  

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Really putting your money where your mouth is with that one dollar. lol. 

Seriously though, I'm just curious why you think he is so mentally weak. Is it b/c he got so beat up the last couple of seasons at PSU?

 I just have not seen that at all from him and it doesn't really fit his character make up when you hear him in interviews and read about him in draft profiles. 

He looked like he was about to start sobbing when Gruden was lobbing softballs at him. In that same interview, he essentially blamed his coaching: "I had my left foot back and...and...they <sniffle> never said anything. They never said anything, Jon!!!" 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You're right, the issues bit brought up had zero to do with anything regarding Hackenberg's play.  

While I find the fact that he stuck it out with PSU admirable, it was the worst thing that he could have done for himself.  He should have transferred when Bill O'Brien left.

Consider how many excuses you've already had to apply to this one player.

[PepPep]

4 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You're right, the issues bit brought up had zero to do with anything regarding Hackenberg's play.  

While I find the fact that he stuck it out with PSU admirable, it was the worst thing that he could have done for himself.  He should have transferred when Bill O'Brien left.

I have watched him quite a bit his last two years. And he DID look awful. But it was OBVIOUS that he did all he could under the circumstances. I mean, I was surprised they didn't have to bring him out of the game on a stretcher, the D, for the most part would just overload the line of scrimmage and bring everyone, knowing Hack had no chance and the WRs were average at best. Hack DID read the defense, he made his audibles, it just rarely made a difference- he had no time to get rid of the ball, and when he did, looked uncomfortable and rushed- for good reason. He was also in the shotgun most of the time and was obviously uncomfortable lining up that way as well.  

[sourceworx]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Consider how many excuses you've already had to apply to this one player.

I count one. Nowhere near as many as you have for John Idzik.

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I have watched him quite a bit his last two years. And he DID look awful. But it was OBVIOUS that he did all he could under the circumstances. I mean, I was surprised they didn't have to bring him out of the game on a stretcher, the D, for the most part would just overload the line of scrimmage and bring everyone, knowing Hack had no chance and the WRs were average at best. Hack DID read the defense, he made his audibles, it just rarely made a difference- he had no time to get rid of the ball, and when he did, looked uncomfortable and rushed- for good reason. He was also in the shotgun most of the time and was obviously uncomfortable lining up that way as well.  

Can you name one of Ben Roethlisberger's teammates from Miami (Ohio)?

[T0mShane]

Just now, sourceworx said:

I count one. Nowhere near as many as you have for John Idzik.

 

Idzik took down Rex. The guy is a hero and should be remembered as such.

[sourceworx]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Idzik took down Rex. The guy is a hero and should be remembered as such.

Wrong again, Pop. Rex was going down no matter what. He took Idzik with him.  

The best thing he ever did for this organization.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Wrong again, Pop. Rex was going down no matter what. He took Idzik with him.  

The best thing he ever did for this organization.

Woody Johnson would have made Rex Coach for Life if it wasn't for the clear-eyed leadership of John Idzik. He was our Moses.

[PepPep]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Can you name one of Ben Roethlisberger's teammates from Miami (Ohio)?

No. What does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that Big Ben had an equally bad o-line and no talent around him? Are you suggesting we should be comparing the Big 10 to the Mid-American Conference. Was Miami (Ohio) stripped of scholarships due to a scandal? did a bunch of their players leave b/c a coach covered up a molestation scandal?

I actually just looked at the stats of Miami (OH) from 2003 (Big Ben was drafted in 2004). They were pretty darn good. That offense put up some numbers, including the RBs.   

[sourceworx]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Woody Johnson would have made Rex Coach for Life if it wasn't for the clear-eyed leadership of John Idzik. He was our Moses.

Clear-eyed leadership.

His refusal to spend ANY money in 2014 is the reason Maccagnan had to dole out so many bloated contracts last year. The gaping holes his putrid drafts left had to be filled with older vets that Mac had to sign or trade for.

Rex was hanging by a thread in 2014. The second he knew he was finished, he made sure he took Idzik with him (the Miami game where he refused to let Geno throw a pass publicly revealed the strife between the two, and sealed Idzik's fate).

Idzik was an abortion of a GM. If he was our Moses, then Rex was our Jesus.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Clear-eyed leadership.

His refusal to spend ANY money in 2014 is the reason Maccagnan had to dole out so many bloated contracts last year. The gaping holes his putrid drafts left had to be filled with older vets that Mac had to sign or trade for.

Rex was hanging by a thread in 2014. The second he knew he was finished, he made sure he took Idzik with him (the Miami game where he refused to let Geno throw a pass publicly revealed the strife between the two, and sealed Idzik's fate).

Idzik was an abortion of a GM. If he was our Moses, then Rex was our Jesus.

So you're saying the imprudent actions of the prior GM impacted the ability of the next GM to operate successfully?

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, PepPep said:

No. What does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that Big Ben had an equally bad o-line and no talent around him? Are you suggesting we should be comparing the Big 10 to the Mid-American Conference. Was Miami (Ohio) stripped of scholarships due to a scandal? did a bunch of their players leave b/c a coach covered up a molestation scandal?

I actually just looked at the stats of Miami (OH) from 2003 (Big Ben was drafted in 2004). They were pretty darn good. That offense put up some numbers, including the RBs.   

I'm suggesting that using the weppinz argument is the go-to maneuver for defending bad QBs.

[sourceworx]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So you're saying the imprudent actions of the prior GM impacted the ability of the next GM to operate successfully?

In a way, I guess. Mac still had to make smart personnel decisions, and with a few exceptions I'd say he has done so. But CBA rules forced him to spend to the limit because Idzik sat on a huge amount of cap money and wouldn't spend any of it. He was hoping to spend big with his own coach in place (I shudder to think what inept clown he would have hired) in 2015.  Rex spared us of that nightmare scenario.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

In a way, I guess. Mac still had to make smart personnel decisions, and with a few exceptions I'd say he has done so. But CBA rules forced him to spend to the limit because Idzik sat on a huge amount of cap money and wouldn't spend any of it. He was hoping to spend big with his own coach in place (I shudder to think what inept clown he would have hired) in 2015.  Rex spared us of that nightmare scenario.

So you're admitting that Idzik was fired before his intended program was set to take root?

[Dcat]

Just now, T0mShane said:

So you're admitting that Idzik was fired before his intended program was set to take root?

Izik drafted four horrible WRs in the richest WR draft in the last 50 years. There was no intended program except to save money, alienate players and their agents and act like a court jester at press conferences.   

[sourceworx]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So you're admitting that Idzik was fired before his intended program was set to take root?

Nope. Not in the least.

While i agree they should have fired Rex when they fired Tannenbaum, Idzik agreed to take on the job with Rex as the coach. No one put a gun to his head.  Once he did that, Rex became his coach. The fact that he ran the team into the ground in hopes of getting the coach fired is inexcusable. By doing so he forfeited his chance to hire another coach.

Woody already made the mistake of firing one but not the other in 2013.  He thankfully didn't repeat it in 2015.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Izik drafted four horrible WRs in the richest WR draft in the last 50 years. There was no intended program except to save money, alienate players and their agents and act like a court jester at press conferences.   

I'm sort of kidding about Idzik, but if Dee Milliner and Jace Amaro stay healthy and contribute, and Richardson, Winters, Pryor, and Enunwa continue to develop, Idzik will have had one of the best two-year runs of any GM in Jets history. Add to that his trade for Ivory and landing Eric Decker as a free agent. The history changes.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Nope. Not in the least.

While i agree they should have fired Rex when they fired Tannenbaum, Idzik agreed to take on the job with Rex as the coach. No one put a gun to his head.  Once he did that, Rex became his coach. The fact that he ran the team into the ground in hopes of getting the coach fired is inexcusable. By doing so he forfeited his chance to hire another coach.

Woody already made the mistake of firing one but not the other in 2013.  He thankfully didn't repeat it in 2015.

We agree that Woody biffed the whole thing.

[Dcat]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I'm sort of kidding about Idzik, but if Dee Milliner and Jace Amaro stay healthy and contribute, and Richardson, Winters, Pryor, and Enunwa continue to develop, Idzik will have had one of the best two-year runs of any GM in Jets history. Add to that his trade for Ivory and landing Eric Decker as a free agent. The history changes.

the 4th for Ivory was ok.  nothing spectacular there considering Ivory's chronic injury history.  Which hurt the team badly last year, by the way.  I will NOT credit Idzik for Decker.  Decker's star wife wanted to be here and that made Decker far more amenable to Jets offers.  In fact, Idzik probably could have got him for less.  It was all about Jessie.  That's why Decker is a Jet.  Everything else in there is "if... if.... if... if... if...."  Idzik did nothing special and was Woody's little money saver puppet.  He disposed of Revis per Woody's orders and completely ruined what could have been an outstanding draft.  I will never....  NEVER forgive that azzhole for that.  Never.