Darron Lee

[Augustiniak]

11 hours ago, Bugg said:

Don't wish ill on Lee; quite the contrary. As long as he is here,would like to see him be a great player.

Problem is offense wins games in the 2016 NFl. The rules and the refs enforcing them beg you to pass effectively. And even the best of defenses in this league fail several times every game. This franchise, however, always seems to draft defense first. the coach is AGAIN a defense guy. Simply under Woody Johnson at the same time offense has taken off appears to have overvalued defense. Are we allowed to look around the NFL  and wonder WTF is going on here compared to every other team?We've been the fan base stuck outside on a freezing day watching the party inside with our noses pressed up against the window forever.

exactly what i've been thinking all night.  the rules are geared to score and the jets can't score with fitz and this is no surprise.  qbs like dalton and wilson will hang 20-30 on you and you've got to be able to match it.  at least the gm is trying to groom qbs, i'd just like to read that petty is practicing b/c every time fitz sucks and geno doesn't play it just makes it worse.

[whodeawhodat]

12 hours ago, PCP63 said:

Lee had a hell of a game. I'll get crap for that statement, but it's true. Graham honestly just made quite a few amazing plays against perfect coverage.

Agree, he was one of the only positives maybe the only positive on sunday.  Didnt make all the plays but he played well.  

[varjet]

Lee was right in Graham's pocket on most of those throws.

MacC was looking for a traditional drop back QB.  That is why he avoided Lynch and Prescott, and maybe even Brisset.  We already went down that road with Smith and Petty.  Smith and Petter were better than Lynch, Prescott and Brisset in coverage, but because we already owned Smith and Petty, we were not tripling down on that.

If Connor Cook turns out good, that is a different story, but we will likely never know, because he will sit behind Carr.

[Big Blocker]

10 minutes ago, varjet said:

Lee was right in Graham's pocket on most of those throws.

MacC was looking for a traditional drop back QB.  That is why he avoided Lynch and Prescott, and maybe even Brisset.  We already went down that road with Smith and Petty.  Smith and Petter were better than Lynch, Prescott and Brisset in coverage, but because we already owned Smith and Petty, we were not tripling down on that.

If Connor Cook turns out good, that is a different story, but we will likely never know, because he will sit behind Carr.

I don't know how what Macc wanted is the prime metric here.  Rather than that, two things should be clear to everyone.

One is the Denver Broncos are right now perhaps the best run organization in the NFL.  They are the defending champs, and since Elway took over they have made a number of great moves to get there.  Despite that they looked questionable heading into this past off season with Manning retiring, Osweiler leaving and only Simean under contract.  The Sanchez move was a head scratcher, but it ended up not sinking them.  So the Jets, needing a Qb medium to long term, and Petty not being a sure thing, pass on Lynch who everyone said was the 3rd best option at Qb in the draft, after Goff and Wentz.  Any Jet fan who did not notice that the Broncos then traded up to get Lynch either doesn't understand the significance of that, or was not paying attention.  It was.... NOTEWORTHY.

Second, especially on a team like the Jets that does not have a quality Qb that looks solid for the medium to long term, someone who can fill that role is more important than an upgrade at Linebacker.  If you don't understand that, you don't understand the game and where the Jets are.

Those two things being the case, the OP here must be the worst OP I've seen all year if not longer than that.  I could not possibly disagree more with the OP.

[JiFtheOracle]

13 hours ago, Jolot said:

I would jump in here but how can you argue with this truth bomb ? "If Lynch wins 20 Super Bowls in Denver it still wasn't a mistake to pass him up "....

That might be the greatest quote in the history of the world.  And the day he does win his 20th Super Bowl.  I picture Whofan crying, TO style, "that's my linberbacker".

[chirorob]

13 hours ago, Bugg said:

Don't wish ill on Lee; quite the contrary. As long as he is here,would like to see him be a great player.

Problem is offense wins games in the 2016 NFl. The rules and the refs enforcing them beg you to pass effectively. And even the best of defenses in this league fail several times every game. This franchise, however, always seems to draft defense first. the coach is AGAIN a defense guy. Simply under Woody Johnson at the same time offense has taken off appears to have overvalued defense. Are we allowed to look around the NFL  and wonder WTF is going on here compared to every other team?We've been the fan base stuck outside on a freezing day watching the party inside with our noses pressed up against the window forever.

That's not really true.  Denver won with D.   Last year Carolina was in the SB with D.  Sea Hawks were a yard away from winning back to back with D. 

Look at how every week TE after TE owns us.  Having someone to possibly cover that would be a huge addition. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, chirorob said:

That's not really true.  Denver won with D.   Last year Carolina was in the SB with D.  Sea Hawks were a yard away from winning back to back with D. 

Look at how every week TE after TE owns us.  Having someone to possibly cover that would be a huge addition. 

and cam newton, nfl mvp.

[UnitedWhofans]

13 hours ago, Bugg said:

Not the past few weeks. 

We scored 17 points yesterday 

[varjet]

45 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I don't know how what Macc wanted is the prime metric here.  Rather than that, two things should be clear to everyone.

One is the Denver Broncos are right now perhaps the best run organization in the NFL.  They are the defending champs, and since Elway took over they have made a number of great moves to get there.  Despite that they looked questionable heading into this past off season with Manning retiring, Osweiler leaving and only Simean under contract.  The Sanchez move was a head scratcher, but it ended up not sinking them.  So the Jets, needing a Qb medium to long term, and Petty not being a sure thing, pass on Lynch who everyone said was the 3rd best option at Qb in the draft, after Goff and Wentz.  Any Jet fan who did not notice that the Broncos then traded up to get Lynch either doesn't understand the significance of that, or was not paying attention.  It was.... NOTEWORTHY.

Second, especially on a team like the Jets that does not have a quality Qb that looks solid for the medium to long term, someone who can fill that role is more important than an upgrade at Linebacker.  If you don't understand that, you don't understand the game and where the Jets are.

Those two things being the case, the OP here must be the worst OP I've seen all year if not longer than that.  I could not possibly disagree more with the OP.

I was not justifying or defending what MacC did-I was trying to explain what I thought he was thinking.

In retrospect, passing on Lynch looks really bad, and I agree with how you are looking at it.   But we are all missing the big point.   Woody when asks always says he wants to win this year.   Darron Lee was helping that, Lynch likely not.   LB speed was a big weakness in 2015-Fitz, although not under contract at draft time, set Jet QB records.  The Jets already had 2 project spread QBs on the roster.

Elway knows that if you don't have a franchise qb on your roster, you swing agggresively to get one.   The Broncos just won the SB.  If the Jets wanted to accomplish something similar, maybe they draft Lynch and Cravens instead.

These threads are just symptoms.  Until Woody is ready to sell fewer tickets, parking spots and beverages for a couple of years of purgatory, the Jets will be mediocre.

 

[Big Blocker]

15 minutes ago, varjet said:

I was not justifying or defending what MacC did-I was trying to explain what I thought he was thinking.

In retrospect, passing on Lynch looks really bad, and I agree with how you are looking at it.   But we are all missing the big point.   Woody when asks always says he wants to win this year.   Darron Lee was helping that, Lynch likely not.   LB speed was a big weakness in 2015-Fitz, although not under contract at draft time, set Jet QB records.  The Jets already had 2 project spread QBs on the roster.

Elway knows that if you don't have a franchise qb on your roster, you swing agggresively to get one.   The Broncos just won the SB.  If the Jets wanted to accomplish something similar, maybe they draft Lynch and Cravens instead.

These threads are just symptoms.  Until Woody is ready to sell fewer tickets, parking spots and beverages for a couple of years of purgatory, the Jets will be mediocre.

 

Putting Woody aside for the moment, as I agree he sucks as an owner, the only quibble I have with your post is something it implies that you probably do not mean to say, and that is that the Broncos did not know whether Lynch was a good prospect at that point in the draft.  I assume Denver scouted him and were not merely swinging aggressively, as in taking a big risk.

I heard the discussions pro and con whether Lynch would be a good choice for the Jets, and as we all know Macc passed on him.  When Denver took him I said Oh boy, those guys do not make big mistakes. 

Having said that I do get that Elway entered the off season with more good will from his team's fans than anybody else.  He could afford to be aggressive. I just think that Denver probably felt good about Lynch despite that.

[joewilly12]

Good player but we should have used the draft pick a lot wiser and smarter. 

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Good player but we should have used the draft pick a lot wiser and smarter. 

Drafting a good player is never incorrect

[varjet]

50 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Putting Woody aside for the moment, as I agree he sucks as an owner, the only quibble I have with your post is something it implies that you probably do not mean to say, and that is that the Broncos did not know whether Lynch was a good prospect at that point in the draft.  I assume Denver scouted him and were not merely swinging aggressively, as in taking a big risk.

I heard the discussions pro and con whether Lynch would be a good choice for the Jets, and as we all know Macc passed on him.  When Denver took him I said Oh boy, those guys do not make big mistakes. 

Having said that I do get that Elway entered the off season with more good will from his team's fans than anybody else.  He could afford to be aggressive. I just think that Denver probably felt good about Lynch despite that.

"And it looks really bad" was indirectly saying that the Broncos trading up to take Lynch after the Jets passed on him is not a good sign.

But honestly, I don't think we know how Lynch or Hackenburg is going to end up, although based on initial observations Lynch is trending better.

Where MacC has appeared to miss the boat somewhat is with the "Draft Round to When the Player Is Ready" formula.  With NFL FA, it is not enough to pick a player high who you think are going to be able to play later.  HIgh round picks need to play ASAP.  If you think there is a player with potential 1 or more years down the road, those players get picked later.  Winters, Petty and possibly Hackenburg are examples of players who have developed or are developing, but were picked too early.

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, chirorob said:

That's not really true.  Denver won with D.   Last year Carolina was in the SB with D.  Sea Hawks were a yard away from winning back to back with D. 

Look at how every week TE after TE owns us.  Having someone to possibly cover that would be a huge addition. 

If your offense does not put the fear of God in the heart of the opposition, you are not a winning NFL team. A 3 and out program keeps any defense on the field all day, and that doesn't work. In fact as we're seeing it makes it more likely your defense fails.  

Started every game this season from behind. Even in a game in which the defense had 6 sacks, the Jets lost. And  really there has been almost no pass rush at all, long with tons of blown coverages. You would think  since they don't press WRs at the line, well, at least the safeties are guarding against the big play; think again. The WR screen is now a joke for opponents; no,really, the Jets won't step up and stop it, it's good for at least 5-7 yards a pop. Again, even good defenses fail every game because that's the way the game is now enforced. Despite devoting a lot of cap cash and picks to the defense to go with a defense HC, the defense sucks. 

As to TEs; we don't seem to have had a real one in a very long time. And no matter who's the HC, every decent TE and many you have never heard of before have career days vs the Jets. 

Derrick Carr vs. Calvin Pryor. 

[chirorob]

4 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

and cam newton, nfl mvp.

I'd love to have that QB.   But you can win without it. 

I mean, I'd love to buy that Jersey to hang next to my Namath.