Texans & Jets possibly talking trade! ????

[faba]

The background Mangini would have coming and working with New England suggests that this has no chance of happening- they are looking to build a team and not try to get one specific player

[BwanaZulia]

Hopefully this is all just posturing.

BZ

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

The background Mangini would have coming and working with New England suggests that this has no chance of happening- they are looking to build a team and not try to get one specific player

I Agree,coming from N.E they know how to build teams from scratch.he know's we actually need more picks for this team.so I see us trading our #4 for more picks in the draft. more picks more solid players,more holes filled

[stormshadow19]

OH man. All of a sudden I am the worlds biggest Reggie Bush fan!

You don't have the balls to let Faba go. He'd find you and hurt you. No one here messes with Faba.

[faba]

You don't have the balls to let Faba go. He'd find you and hurt you. No one here messes with Faba.

Max has gotten really bold lately- he actually closed down the moderator's lounge - that two by four room was nice for a break

[Alk]

then we have a top 3 RB in the NFL for 10 years.

Just like that? No doubt about it? He'll be better than LT, Johnson, Alexander and Edge? You're insane. That's the only real explanation.

[PeterNorth09]

You're right, he isn't. So far, he hasn't even proven to be a below average RB. He isn't an NFL RB at all yet. Every pick in the draft is a crapshoot, true, but historically there have been very few RBs that have truly been worth #1s, and even less that can do it without an O-line. In fact, all I can really think of is Barry Sanders. It's better for us to build an O-line and have a solid RB, they're pretty much a dime a dozen. This is why the 'Hawks and Colts haven't been too worried about losing their feature RBs until this year. The Colts will probably not miss too much either, they will still lose in the playoffs because of Manning. They'll also still put up good regular season numbers and record because of Manning. The Cardinals with Edge probably still won't do too much.

I think you are massively underrating the value of a special running back and ignoring recent history. The vast majority of superstar running backs today may not have been picked #1 overall but were picked in the first round. Ladainian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson, Clinton Portis, Edgerrin James, Jamal Lewis etc.

Yeah you get guys like Alex and Barber who were later round picks and developed into stars but that doesn't make good running backs a "dime a dozen." Indy wasn't worried about losing James because their offense is passing-centered. Manning and co. spread the field out alot and that helps their running back. Indy's offensive line isn't that good actually. Manning even said so himself.

Seattle wasn't worried about losing Alexander because they knew nobody was going to pay top dollar for a running back in his late 20's.

You definitely need O-line but you also need a running back who can compliment that O-line and make them look good too. I know Reggie Bush will be that kind of a special player in the nfl but I still wouldn't trade up for him.

By getting as many first day picks as possible, we can take care of our major needs: RB, O-line, DT, WR, TE.

If the Jets trade up it is to get Matt Leinart, not Reggie Bush. I did this thread a couple months back. Personally, I'm against trading up to get anybody and would rather trade down.

Trade down with the Arizona Cards and get the #10 pick and another 2nd and/or 3rd rounder. With the #10 pick, take Lendale White or Haloti Ngata. That way, we can either run the ball or stop the run for another 10 years. Try to get Leonard Pope or Marcus McNeill at #29. And so on.

[Sperm Edwards]

Portis was picked in round two (the end of round two at that).

Why not just make this list but with those who actually have superbowl rings, and how that team acquired him? Let's pick a round # and, say, the last 10 superbowl winners:

Steelers 2005:

Jerome Bettis - FA

Willie Parker - undrafted FA

Patriots 2004:

Corey Dillon - FA

Patriots 2003:

Antowain Smith - FA

Tampa Bay 2002:

Michael Pittman - FA

Mike Alstott - round 2

Patriots 2001:

Antowain Smith - FA

Ravens 2000:

Jamal Lewis - round 1

Rams 1999:

Marshall Faulk - trade

Broncos 1998:

Terrell Davis - round 6

Broncos 1997:

Terrell Davis - round 6

Packers 1996:

Edgar Bennett - round 4

Dorsey Levens - round 5

[PeterNorth09]

Portis was picked in round two (the end of round two at that).

Why not just make this list but with those who actually have superbowl rings, and how that team acquired him? Let's pick a round # and, say, the last 10 superbowl winners:

Steelers 2005:

Jerome Bettis - FA

Willie Parker - undrafted FA

Patriots 2004:

Corey Dillon - FA

Patriots 2003:

Antowain Smith - FA

Tampa Bay 2002:

Michael Pittman - FA

Mike Alstott - round 2

Patriots 2001:

Antowain Smith - FA

Ravens 2000:

Jamal Lewis - round 1

Rams 1999:

Marshall Faulk - trade

Broncos 1998:

Terrell Davis - round 6

Broncos 1997:

Terrell Davis - round 6

Packers 1996:

Edgar Bennett - round 4

Dorsey Levens - round 5

Spermie, so I guess we would be in better shape if we signed a scrub FA like Najeh Devenport or Michael Bennett than drafted a Reggie Bush or a Lendale White?

Look at how much success Tampa Bay had last year with Cadillac Williams. Miami Dolphins got a lot better with Ronnie Brown. If the Jets can turn it around next season like those teams did we would all be very pleased.

I know trying to win without a good running back is a fun challenge you want to try to take on but me, personally, I don't think it's such a hot idea.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

Spermie, so I guess we would be in better shape if we signed a scrub FA like Najeh Devenport or Michael Bennett than drafted a Reggie Bush or a Lendale White?

Look at how much success Tampa Bay had last year with Cadillac Williams. Miami Dolphins got a lot better with Ronnie Brown. If the Jets can turn it around next season like those teams did we would all be very pleased.

I know trying to win without a good running back is a fun challenge you want to try to take on but me, personally, I don't think it's such a hot idea.

YOU DA MAN PETE,I understand we have alot of holes to fill ,mainly on def. but come on guys we need some off. if not our def. will be on the field all day getting killed ,while the off. goes 3 and out all day.(I feel sorry for our def. right now ,and the season hasn't even started)

[Sperm Edwards]

The problem is that you seem to be equating any RB who's not drafted in round one with being a scrub. Or if we don't piss away a high draft pick on a RB we'll end up with Najeh Davenport.

RB's have short careers. It's just a difference in philosophy. I don't think that you draft one as a building block. You build a line for him to run behind first. It takes longer for these players to develop plus the time it takes for cohesion of the players you've got. RB's can step right in.

It's not an objection to taking a RB with a high draft pick. It's an objection to taking one with a high draft pick NOW. If you can pick a draft to go through massive rebuilding, particularly with your guys in the trenches (OL, DL, LB), then we lucked out massively.

Put them behind a good line & late draft picks can win superbowls for you. Use your high draft picks on RB's instead of other positions filled less easily & it takes longer to build/recover.

I'd prefer a three-headed monster we have now if they're functional, and build the OL so we can be a contender as early as next year. I couldn't care less if we have a RBBC that gets 600 yds apiece instead of a single RB that gets 1500 and a backup that gets 300 more. It's still the same # of yards. You simply don't need a star RB in this league to put a winner on the field.

That only makes losers into winners in fantasy football.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Portis was picked in round two (the end of round two at that).

Why not just make this list but with those who actually have superbowl rings, and how that team acquired him? Let's pick a round # and, say, the last 10 superbowl winners:

Steelers 2005:

Jerome Bettis - FA

Willie Parker - undrafted FA

Patriots 2004:

Corey Dillon - FA

Patriots 2003:

Antowain Smith - FA

Tampa Bay 2002:

Michael Pittman - FA

Mike Alstott - round 2

Patriots 2001:

Antowain Smith - FA

Ravens 2000:

Jamal Lewis - round 1

Rams 1999:

Marshall Faulk - trade

Broncos 1998:

Terrell Davis - round 6

Broncos 1997:

Terrell Davis - round 6

Packers 1996:

Edgar Bennett - round 4

Dorsey Levens - round 5

Everyone one of those teams had good offensive lines...if they had the Jets O line as it stands right now, would we even have heard of half of those guys?

[Sperm Edwards]

Everyone one of those teams had good offensive lines...if they had the Jets O line as it stands right now, would we even have heard of half of those guys?

Exactly my point.

[PeterNorth09]

Yeah RB's have short careers because the good ones normally take alot of abuse in college before they get to the nfl. Lendale White is a not only coming out as a junior he was also a part-time back in college so he has very little wear and tear. It's realistic to think Lendale White can give the Jets 7-9 years of a quality running game the same way Martin did.

I wouldn't call drafting Reggie Bush or Lendale White "pissing away" a first round pick. Especially if we use a second round pick on a menacing young RT like Andrew Whitworth or Ryan O'Callaghan to soldify our running game for years to come.

Drafting an OT at #4 when there are about a dozen other good prospects at that position juist isn't good drafting technique. I can easily see Winston Justice and Marcus McNeill being as good if not better than Ferguson in the NFL. There are several good LT and RT prospects that will be available in rounds 2-4. Contrast that to the RB prospects after Round 1 which don't look so promising.

This draft is deep at the O-line positions. Yeah, Ferguson and Mangold are the most hyped up at their positions but that doesn't mean guys like Justice, McNeill, Whitworth, Eslinger and Degory can't be good either.

Your famous "three headed monster" will just get us into a lot of three and outs next year. Martin is ancient and injured, Blaylock sucks and Houston did not impress me at all last year.

Let's get some playmakers. I'm sick and tired of having an inept offense and trying to win every game every game 10-7.

[PatsFanTX]

Patriots 2004:

Corey Dillon - FA

The Pats did not sign Dillon as a FA.

He was aquired throught a trade (2nd round pick) with the Bengals.

[Sperm Edwards]

And if you think I'm a Curtis Martin fan, ask around. There are three RB's on the roster right now. None of them make me ooh or ahh. But that doesn't mean they suck simply because they didn't light up the league while injured & playing behind no offensive line with no quarterback.

You're trying to win it all in year one of a rebuilding year by trying to bring in the biggest/sexiest offensive player? Are you Terry Bradway?

And are you suggesting that O'Callaghan would make just as good an OT as Brick?

[PeterNorth09]

No, I'm not Terry Bradway, for a second there though I thought you may have been Matt Millen but then I figured you out were really Harvey Fierstein.

If I wanted the Jets to get the sexiest, most exciting name in the draft I would want them to trade up for Reggie Bush or Matt Leinart. Instead, I want them to trade down and get either White or Haloti Ngata.

Just because I think we can get 2-3 good-very good starters on our offensive line in Rounds 2-5 of the draft does not mean I think offensive line is worthless. Ofcourse I like having a good offensive line like everyone else but I also want playmakers on offense, something we have never really had since losing Keyshawn Johnson.

Mawae was a 2nd round pick. Jason Fabini was a 4th round pick. Kareem Mackenzie was a 3rd round pick. With all that your telling me the offensive line is forever doomed if we don't take D'Brickshaw Ferguson with the fourth overall pick in the draft?

Trust me, when Ramsey has no running game to support him and no receivers who can get open he is dead next year.

[Sperm Edwards]

No one knows what kind of running game we have really. Martin really should be a 3rd down back right now. He can pick up a blitz & can catch just fine. Blaylock & Houston - who really knows? All I know of Blaylock is that he was plenty good when he was running behind a good OL. Houston we've only seen in action with no OL and no QB. He could be the worst thing in the world & he could be Stephen Davis.

The big difference, as I see it, with an OT like Brick and another guy you can get much later is that Brick is ready to start right now. I'd gladly trade down if that Minnesota deal or something like it came through. The rumor was #4 for #17 and #48 and #51. Compare that with trading #29 and #4 to move up to #2 (just an example; fill in who you like best):

#17 LT Marcus McNeill or Eric Winston

#29 OC Nick Mangold

#35 OG Max Jean-Gilles

#48 QB Brodie Croyle

#51 TE Anthony Fasano

or

#2 Matt Leinart

#35 BPA

now throw in one of the remaining top-10 OT's that could still be available at #71 (assume it's Trueblood, who could certainly fit the bill as a mauler RT) or a similar type with a day-two pick.

You've now got the makings of an outstanding young line (and a TE that can really block AND catch) that could be kept intact for the better part of a decade. Not just young & strong, but they'll play together for a long time, which I think is key. It's a line +TE that an average RB could perform at above-average levels behind.

Good, young RB's come into the draft every single year. There are also good FA RB's that become available every year. It's rare to be able to build a line like this all in one shot. You need a combination of multiple day-one picks in a draft that runs this deep. I hope we take advantage of it.