Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 SE pre-season wish-list: 1. Cut Curtis Martin. 2. Cut Chad Pennington. Take our cap hit lumps now & be done with it. Now we have to deal with what, $20M in cap hits between the two of these "winners" that will likely haunt us through the 2008 season? (Wish #3 I think we tried to do but didn't get any takers, which was to trade down from #4 & stockpile more picks & avoid a massive pro-bowler-priced contract to a rookie in the process. Can't really fault the FO if no one who possessed enough compensation actually wanted to trade it to move to #4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 So far you haven't been right (neither are cut) so I am going to call you mildly crazy and pretty disloyal. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Not only that - but I guarentee you would be all over Herm's back if he allowed Chad to play as long as Mangini did. Mangini made a rookie mistake by keeping a QB coming off of two major injuries stay in there, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 SE pre-season wish-list: 1. Cut Curtis Martin. 2. Cut Chad Pennington. Take our cap hit lumps now & be done with it. Now we have to deal with what, $20M in cap hits between the two of these "winners" that will likely haunt us through the 2008 season? (Wish #3 I think we tried to do but didn't get any takers, which was to trade down from #4 & stockpile more picks & avoid a massive pro-bowler-priced contract to a rookie in the process. Can't really fault the FO if no one who possessed enough compensation actually wanted to trade it to move to #4). I liked your 3rd wish best. Too bad that, unlike that dude on JI, nobody was that high on Leinart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 yea your both, crazy and disloyal, why in the world would the jets cut martin and chad? martin will retire soon, if its in a week or at the end of the season so thats his salary gone. and chad is making 1 million a year in base salary, so if he come through it can be a big steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 i`m glad your not running the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcat21 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Mangini made a rookie mistake by keeping a QB coming off of two major injuries stay in there, period You usually let the QB finish up the series he started, which is what Mangini was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 So far you haven't been right (neither are cut) so I am going to call you mildly crazy and pretty disloyal. BZ I didn't say it was a prediction that neither will or would be cut. They both should have been cut. We're going to be dealing with this "is Chad's career over" crap every week until he's off the team. Martin's career is over. He will not do the Jets any good. All he will do is prevent the in-game assessment of true Jets future. Pitifully clinging to these two career losers is being disloyal to the team in favor of a couple of individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Not only that - but I guarentee you would be all over Herm's back if he allowed Chad to play as long as Mangini did. Mangini made a rookie mistake by keeping a QB coming off of two major injuries stay in there, period. Exactly.....anybody can play BOTH sides of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Mangini made a rookie mistake by keeping a QB coming off of two major injuries stay in there, period You usually let the QB finish up the series he started, which is what Mangini was doing. Chad should have only been in there for one series. Especially considering this is the first pre season game and you have two rookie OL in there and a brand new system. I know I would be killing Herm on this one. Therefor I have to atleast bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I didn't say it was a prediction that neither will or would be cut. They both should have been cut. We're going to be dealing with this "is Chad's career over" crap every week until he's off the team. Martin's career is over. He will not do the Jets any good. All he will do is prevent the in-game assessment of true Jets future. Pitifully clinging to these two career losers is being disloyal to the team in favor of a couple of individuals. so what? you dont just cut the 4th all time rusher, do have any idea how un-classy that would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 so what? you dont just cut the 4th all time rusher, do have any idea how un-classy that would be? And we all know classiness wins football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 haha wow how old are you? 12? you are obvisously missing the point. good thing your not running our team, because judging by the two things you suggested you would want to get rid of our best QB and cut arguably the 2nd best jet ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 haha wow how old are you? 12? you are obvisously missing the point. good thing your not running our team, because judging by the two things you suggested you would want to get rid of our best QB and cut arguably the 2nd best jet ever. And thinking like that is exactly why the Jets haven't played in a Super Bowl in the last 37 years. Do you really believe in keeping deadwood players around because it is a "class" move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 haha wow how old are you? 12? you are obvisously missing the point. good thing your not running our team, because judging by the two things you suggested you would want to get rid of our best QB and cut arguably the 2nd best jet ever. I think you miss the point. Jet fans want to rebuild without paying the price. You don't keep a mediocre-at-best QB and his gargantuan cap hit AND purposely make that cap hit even BIGGER because he had a great half-season 4 years ago. If you think Martin is the 2nd-best Jet ever you shouldn't be throwing around "how old are you"s. But that is neither here nor there. Neither of these two will be contributors to a Jets superbowl as players. They have both been grossly over-compensated for their services. No RB in history has made as much money as Martin has for the Jets. Pennington is the most overpaid QB in the history of the NFL. And people still want them around to dump more salary cap space on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 pennington is not overpaid anymore, he has a 1 millon dollar base salary and it wouldnt hurt to keep martin until the end of the year until he retires, its not like you actually expect us to be half good this year. who do you need the cap space for that you expect to sign in the middle of august that you need martins and penningtons salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Take our cap hit lumps now & be done with it. Now we have to deal with what, $20M in cap hits between the two of these "winners" that will likely haunt us through the 2008 season? i doubt it unless CuMart is a 20m hit Chad's contract was ripped apart in the offseason he was given a restructured deal or told to hit the bricks - he's playing for less than many backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 pennington is not overpaid anymore, he has a 1 millon dollar base salary and it wouldnt hurt to keep martin until the end of the year until he retires, its not like you actually expect us to be half good this year. who do you need the cap space for that you expect to sign in the middle of august that you need martins and penningtons salary? Exactly, and the Jets will be about 40 million under the cap next year. In comparison to this year where we are close to the cap. Better to cut these guys next year if they prove not worthy of staying around. I personally think Ramsey will be the one on the outside looking in though. He is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 SE pre-season wish-list: 1. Cut Curtis Martin. 2. Cut Chad Pennington. Take our cap hit lumps now & be done with it. Now we have to deal with what, $20M in cap hits between the two of these "winners" that will likely haunt us through the 2008 season? (Wish #3 I think we tried to do but didn't get any takers, which was to trade down from #4 & stockpile more picks & avoid a massive pro-bowler-priced contract to a rookie in the process. Can't really fault the FO if no one who possessed enough compensation actually wanted to trade it to move to #4). You're right about Curtis Martin but i reckon you were wrong about cutting Chad.It's quite clear he's our best quarterback and our offense would be even worse if our starting QB was holding onto the ball for too long or failing to make the right reads(Ramsey). I'm not saying that Chad is our future,he isn't going to lead us to any superbowls.There is a fair chance he's going to get hurt and not last the 16 games,but that's something we are going to have to deal with beause quite frankly,at this moment in time,he's our best option at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 pennington is not overpaid anymore, he has a 1 millon dollar base salary and it wouldnt hurt to keep martin until the end of the year until he retires, its not like you actually expect us to be half good this year. who do you need the cap space for that you expect to sign in the middle of august that you need martins and penningtons salary? You're almost there bro. You've just about got it. The reason is because you are putting off a dead-cap hit for 2007/2008 instead of the 2006 rebuilding season. That is why. Playing Pennington will compound the problem further by allowing him to reach "unlikely to be reached" incentives. If he miraculously played a full season he'd count ANOTHER $6-8M off the 2007 cap - and that cannot be spread out like a signing bonus. That money given to both must come off the cap. By keeping one or both of them, we are saving 2006 cap space at the expense of 2007-2008 cap space. Capiche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 i doubt it unless CuMart is a 20m hit Chad's contract was ripped apart in the offseason he was given a restructured deal or told to hit the bricks - he's playing for less than many backups. Martin will still count something like $5-6M if he's cut prior to next year. After this season is over, Pennington still has $9M of his orig SB left to come off the cap. If he reaches most or all of his incentives as part of the restructuring, that's another $5-6M minimum. Total = $20M give-or-take to start Pennington & then cut both of them at season's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 so what? you dont just cut the 4th all time rusher, do have any idea how un-classy that would be? Yes-and so what?Is this about winning football games or coddling egos, and in Martin's case, one ego that was greatly massaged when it came to playing time and renumeration, at the great deteriment to this franchise. "Classy" and "Salary cap" are incompatible. This isn't baseball. There's no farewell tours. It's why Klecko last wore a Colts uniform, Namath a Rams uniform, Unitas a Chargers uniform, Emmitt Smith a Cardinal uniform, Franco Harris a Seahawks uniform, Reggie White a Panthers uniform, etc. You "Martin is a WARRIOR!" knuckleheads are going to have to wake up to cold, hard reality-34-year old running backs are either retired or washed up, even ones better than Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 so you think the label on the franchise "unclassy" is worth it just because we cut martin when hes probably going to retire after this season 4-12 like season anyway? i cant believe some of you call yourself jet fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes-and so what?Is this about winning football games or coddling egos, and in Martin's case, one ego that was greatly massaged when it came to playing time and renumeration, at the great deteriment to this franchise. "Classy" and "Salary cap" are incompatible. This isn't baseball. There's no farewell tours. It's why Klecko last wore a Colts uniform, Namath a Rams uniform, Unitas a Chargers uniform, Emmitt Smith a Cardinal uniform, Franco Harris a Seahawks uniform, Reggie White a Panthers uniform, etc. You "Martin is a WARRIOR!" knuckleheads are going to have to wake up to cold, hard reality-34-year old running backs are either retired or washed up, even ones better than Martin. honestly do you think we are going to compete this year? just let him play or w/e and hell retire at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 You're almost there bro. You've just about got it. The reason is because you are putting off a dead-cap hit for 2007/2008 instead of the 2006 rebuilding season. That is why. Playing Pennington will compound the problem further by allowing him to reach "unlikely to be reached" incentives. If he miraculously played a full season he'd count ANOTHER $6-8M off the 2007 cap - and that cannot be spread out like a signing bonus. That money given to both must come off the cap. By keeping one or both of them, we are saving 2006 cap space at the expense of 2007-2008 cap space. Capiche? your missing the point, we lose no money if c-mart just retires after this year, and this season pennington decides his own future, and he wont be cut before the season which is an assa****ng thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes-and so what?Is this about winning football games or coddling egos, and in Martin's case, one ego that was greatly massaged when it came to playing time and renumeration, at the great deteriment to this franchise. "Classy" and "Salary cap" are incompatible. This isn't baseball. There's no farewell tours. It's why Klecko last wore a Colts uniform, Namath a Rams uniform, Unitas a Chargers uniform, Emmitt Smith a Cardinal uniform, Franco Harris a Seahawks uniform, Reggie White a Panthers uniform, etc. You "Martin is a WARRIOR!" knuckleheads are going to have to wake up to cold, hard reality-34-year old running backs are either retired or washed up, even ones better than Martin. First of all, there are farewell tours. See Victor Green. Also, Namath in a Rams uniform is a poor example. He was cut at his own request so that he could sign with the Rams because he wanted to go there to further his "television and movie career." Waverly Wonders anyone? There are ways to let an aging superstar go without seeming like jerks. I'm not saying that they should hold on to these guys when it will force a deeper cap hit, but there's no reason for a PR debacle. Remember the Giants and Bavaro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 First of all, there are farewell tours. See Victor Green. Also, Namath in a Rams uniform is a poor example. He was cut at his own request so that he could sign with the Rams because he wanted to go there to further his "television and movie career." Waverly Wonders anyone? There are ways to let an aging superstar go without seeming like jerks. I'm not saying that they should hold on to these guys when it will force a deeper cap hit, but there's no reason for a PR debacle. Remember the Giants and Bavaro? The Jints, in a matter of a few years, cut Simms(coming off a playoff season) and Jeff Hostetler. The PR debacle is no better because you hold off until the player realizes it's time to go. If you let Martin make the decision, he won't leave until he's almost using a walker and cane. This is a lot like Patrick Ewing and the Knicks-if you aren't a useful player, paying you homage and cash doens't make sense, nor is the inevitable parting any sweeter. Part of what makes a star like Martin great is his ego, but at this point it becomes an impediment to seeing reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 I'm not saying that they should hold on to these guys when it will force a deeper cap hit, but there's no reason for a PR debacle. Remember the Giants and Bavaro? Mark Bavaro's last season with the Giants was 1990. There was no salary cap in the NFL until the 1994 season. So there is no correlation. If it was merely a roster spot that Martin was taking up, then whatever - keep him as the #3 RB. The thing is, it WILL cause a deeper cap hit. Much deeper & later (when we're NOT rebuilding anymore). Right now we are under the cap by several millions. We can afford to take some of the hit this year. It will not prevent the signing of some season-saving FA in 2006. But taking the hit a year later may cause that to happen in 2008. Cutting Pennington NOW: 2006 cap acceleration of an additional $2M ($6M instead of $3M from the pro-rated SB amount, but $1M less b/c no salary for '06). Next year he will cost $6M as well and nothing more. Keep him this year & he reaches no incentives, then it costs $9M next year OR $7.5M in 2007 and another $4.5M in 2008 (we'd have to pay that $3M roster bonus March 1 if we want the flexibility of spreading it over 2 years). And if he doesn't reach any incentives, then WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING HIM HERE? If he DOES reach the very incentives that would cause you to want him here then cutting him prior to March 1st will cost $15M+ against the 2007 cap. Cutting him after June 1st (same thing as above - pay him another $3M for '07 to not be on the team) & it's $10.5M for 2007 and $7.5M for 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The Jints, in a matter of a few years, cut Simms(coming off a playoff season) and Jeff Hostetler. The PR debacle is no better because you hold off until the player realizes it's time to go. If you let Martin make the decision, he won't leave until he's almost using a walker and cane. This is a lot like Patrick Ewing and the Knicks-if you aren't a useful player, paying you homage and cash doens't make sense, nor is the inevitable parting any sweeter. Part of what makes a star like Martin great is his ego, but at this point it becomes an impediment to seeing reality. I agree completely. You can't just hold on the guy and keep paying him for the sake of his alleged status. Still, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Just cutting them outright when either of them might be the best option at their respective positions is ludicrous. Especially when the cap hit will be the same at the beginning of the season as the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 I agree completely. You can't just hold on the guy and keep paying him for the sake of his alleged status. Still, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Just cutting them outright when either of them might be the best option at their respective positions is ludicrous. Especially when the cap hit will be the same at the beginning of the season as the end. The cap hit is not remotely the same to cut him later as opposed to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Keep in mind if nothing else martin can be a 3rd down back. He's the only one of the backs that can block a safety, and with a young O-line, you might want all the blocking you can get. Regardless of cap hits, i would rather see Martin picking people up in the backfield than having them knock Kellen back to college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Keep in mind if nothing else martin can be a 3rd down back. He's the only one of the backs that can block a safety, and with a young O-line, you might want all the blocking you can get. Regardless of cap hits, i would rather see Martin picking people up in the backfield than having them knock Kellen back to college. Yes, on third and 15 we can run a draw to Martin that he gets 7 yards on, thus boosting his average. No thanks, I've had enough of that in my lifetime. Martin is kind of like Herm, except Martin is actually a good guy. He's a product of media hype and using smoke and mirrors to cover up for his very real weaknesses. You take everything away, and he's a mediocre to weak RB. Every season is a new one, so how does it help you if the guy had 10 straight 1000 yard seasons in his 11th season? It doesn't, at all. I'd rather have a guy that just dominates the league for 2 or 3 years and gets me a Super Bowl, rather than a guy that is consistently mediocre. This is the problem with Jets fans, they're so busy hyping up their own players and tearing each other apart for disagreeing that we can never truly build a winner. We finally have a staff that looks like it can ignore the fans and the media, and make the hard decisions. Hopefully the losing culture will change. I think Jets fans have the most heart of any fans for any sport, but we're not always the most intelligent especially on our own players. We need someone like Tangini to make the cold hard smart decisions, while we continue thinking with our hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The cap hit is not remotely the same to cut him later as opposed to now. I was under the impression that the cap hit only changed 3/1 and 6/1. I didn't think it mattered once they got this far. Your change is based on incentives, isn't it? Chad has shown he is a company guy and will restructure as necessary to help out. I believe he even took some cuts when he didn't have to, like when they couldn't cut him because he was on IR, or to get Coles here. I admit he's overpaid, but that's not his fault. That's FO all the way. I'm fully capable of understanding the salary cap, but I haven't studied it much and admit that I don't know all the nuances at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flick Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 edit..............[url=http://www.lemonparty.org] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I didn't say it was a prediction that neither will or would be cut. They both should have been cut. We're going to be dealing with this "is Chad's career over" crap every week until he's off the team. Martin's career is over. He will not do the Jets any good. All he will do is prevent the in-game assessment of true Jets future. Pitifully clinging to these two career losers is being disloyal to the team in favor of a couple of individuals. Those two players still have stuff left in them. If that game on Friday night showed us anything, it would have been nice to have Curtis in there to RUN and to BLOCK. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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