What's the difference......

[Boozer76]

Between today and the preseason? No one seriously felt this team would be competitive at all, mostly giving us 5-7 wins on the season. We knew the D was going to stink, we knew the OL would be a big concern, and we knew the RB position would also be an issue. We also knew the 3-4 D would come with some growing pains, yet most were still convinced we weren't going to have a good 4-3 D either so we might as well strart the change now. So again I ask, what is the difference? Why are we now bitching and moaning so incessantly about the D, the OL, the RB, the 3-4, the HC, ajnd anything else we can possibly bitch about? Why all the sudden is the sky falling after getting spanked by the Jags?

Only one thing has changed since the preseason, and it is us, the fans. That change occured the moment the IND game ended, and it is further egged on by the fact that our schedule looks even more cupcake-like by the minute. Because we nearly beat IND, the concensus powerhouse of the AFC, fans started to become far too hopeful. We started to actually believe we can hang with the big guns even with our crappy roster. We were handed a gigantic dose of reality in JAX and now we don't like it. Don't get me wrong, we're not nearly as bad as that 41-0 drubbing, but we are also not nearly s good as the upper echelon of NFL teams either. It5's time to keep our composure and keep our wits about us. We are about to face 3 aweful teams, teams that may actually be worse than us. There is a good chance we will end up 5-3 going into the bye week. Furthermore, given that the rest of the schedule isn't any tougher, we might actually have a chance to go 10-6 if we get a few bounces our way. That's how easy our schedule is. But that is just the luck of the draw when it comes to NFL schedules. A tougher schedule could easily have us at 0-5 right now and 3-13 on the season.

The mistake we as fans are making is actually believing that this year's team is the one to build upon and change for the purposes of this season. Moving players around, changing schemes, cutting this guy, signing that guy. The future of this team is far more important, and that means being consistent with scheming, playing the guys who will need the experience, young coaches growing from experience and mistakes, etc... The bottom line is we all knew the players would make mistakes this year, and the coaches would also do the same. For the most part they have been solid until they all sh*t the bed vs JAX. It's probably going to happen again sometime this season. But this whole sky is falling, Mangini sucks, cut this guy, change the schemes, bench that guy mentality really needs to simmer down a bit. At 2-2 Mangini was probably a COY candidate. Now we want to kill him at 2-3. We've got a long rocky season ahead of us, flipping out now is only going to lead to serious heartburn and agitation for the games ahead of us. Enjoy the ride, this team is going to end up far better than anyone expected this past preseason.

[PatsFanTX]

Between today and the preseason? No one seriously felt this team would be competitive at all, mostly giving us 5-7 wins on the season. We knew the D was going to stink, we knew the OL would be a big concern, and we knew the RB position would also be an issue. We also knew the 3-4 D would come with some growing pains, yet most were still convinced we weren't going to have a good 4-3 D either so we might as well strart the change now. So again I ask, what is the difference? Why are we now bitching and moaning so incessantly about the D, the OL, the RB, the 3-4, the HC, ajnd anything else we can possibly bitch about? Why all the sudden is the sky falling after getting spanked by the Jags?

Only one thing has changed since the preseason, and it is us, the fans. That change occured the moment the IND game ended, and it is further egged on by the fact that our schedule looks even more cupcake-like by the minute. Because we nearly beat IND, the concensus powerhouse of the AFC, fans started to become far too hopeful. We started to actually believe we can hang with the big guns even with our crappy roster. We were handed a gigantic dose of reality in JAX and now we don't like it. Don't get me wrong, we're not nearly as bad as that 41-0 drubbing, but we are also not nearly s good as the upper echelon of NFL teams either. It5's time to keep our composure and keep our wits about us. We are about to face 3 aweful teams, teams that may actually be worse than us. There is a good chance we will end up 5-3 going into the bye week. Furthermore, given that the rest of the schedule isn't any tougher, we might actually have a chance to go 10-6 if we get a few bounces our way. That's how easy our schedule is. But that is just the luck of the draw when it comes to NFL schedules. A tougher schedule could easily have us at 0-5 right now and 3-13 on the season.

The mistake we as fans are making is actually believing that this year's team is the one to build upon and change for the purposes of this season. Moving players around, changing schemes, cutting this guy, signing that guy. The future of this team is far more important, and that means being consistent with scheming, playing the guys who will need the experience, young coaches growing from experience and mistakes, etc... The bottom line is we all knew the players would make mistakes this year, and the coaches would also do the same. For the most part they have been solid until they all sh*t the bed vs JAX. It's probably going to happen again sometime this season. But this whole sky is falling, Mangini sucks, cut this guy, change the schemes, bench that guy mentality really needs to simmer down a bit. At 2-2 Mangini was probably a COY candidate. Now we want to kill him at 2-3. We've got a long rocky season ahead of us, flipping out now is only going to lead to serious heartburn and agitation for the games ahead of us. Enjoy the ride, this team is going to end up far better than anyone expected this past preseason.

Booz, as usual, that was a fantastic post, and you really nailed it.

The Jets are in a huge transition year but many fans still think they can be competitive, make a run at the playoffs and win 9 or 10 games.

That is just not going to happen.

The Jets squeaked out a win against the mighty Titans, beat the lowly Bills, then, because of the final score, think they played the Pats tough. The game was so lopsided it wasn't even funny. Then, the over-achieving Colts come to town and all the Jet fans get real giddy.

And then reality set in last week.

Like you said, nothing has changed since pre-season, except the expectations (delusional) of Jet fans. The Jets have a long way to go to be competitive again.

As the season goes on, the Jets will lose a few games to teams they should beat (either Lions, Browns or Texans) and continue to faulter (or get embarrassed) against the elite teams.

Jets fans should hope (and expect) improvement as the season goes on, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Knock off (there are no moral victories in the NFL) the Bears or the Pats in Foxboro before you think your team is competitive again.

Like I said during the pre-season, the Jets will win between 6-8 games this season.

[Gainzo]

Boozer: Great post.

[JetCane]

Good post, but I completely disagree with this:

No one seriously felt this team would be competitive at all

After watching much of tc, I was fairly convinced that this team would

be competitive in many, and probably most of the games this season.

Now, that doesnt mean i think the Jets would win more than 8 or so games, but i believed they would be "competitive" in at least 12 or 14 of the games.

I posted last week that they didnt match up well with the Jags, and picked the Jags to cover (20-10 I think I said). BUT, let's just say that I was not surprised that they played the Colts very tough, and came back against NE to make the game interesting.

I am much more disappointed with getting blown out this week than I was about losing a close game to the Colts. If there's one thing I saw from watching tc, it was that this team would compete in (almost) every game.

[Gainzo]

Good post, but I completely disagree with this:

After watching much of tc, I was fairly convinced that this team would

be competitive in many, and probably most of the games this season.

Now, that doesnt mean i think the Jets would win more than 8 or so games, but i believed they would be "competitive" in at least 12 or 14 of the games.

I posted last week that they didnt match up well with the Jags, and picked the Jags to cover (20-10 I think I said). BUT, let's just say that I was not surprised that they played the Colts very tough, and came back against NE to make the game interesting.

I am much more disappointed with getting blown out this week than I was about losing a close game to the Colts. If there's one thing I saw from watching tc, it was that this team would compete in (almost) every game.

I understand your passion but did you really think a team who can't stop the run and had no running game would be competitive?

That is a death sentence in the NFL.

[JetCane]

What a brilliant observation you make now, master of the obvious.

The Jets were competitive in 4 of 5 games they have played this season despite their shortcomings. Stop being a puss about it on the heels of a blowout. This CS will not allow them to not be competitive on a regular basis.

i did not go into this season thinking they would not play competitive games.

Ha i have to edit this post as I thought I was responding to Tx, not Gz.

Eh, I'll leave it now that i explained it

[Gainzo]

What a brilliant observation you make now, master of the obvious.

The Jets were competitive in 4 of 5 games they have played this season despite their shortcomings. Stop being a puss about it on the heels of a blowout. This CS will not allow them to not be competitive on a regular basis.

i did not go into this season thinking they would not play competitive games.

Ha i have to edit this post as I thought I was responding to Tx, not Gz.

Eh, I'll leave it now that i explained it

I was ready to rip you apart!!!

[LionelRichie]

anytime you get taken behind the woodshed the way the jets did last weekend there are bound to be questions. the key for mangini's long term success is to maintain control of the locker room and avoid "losing" the players.

this weekend's game is extremely important for mangini and the jets.

[JetCane]

LOL Gainzo

Yeah it came out differently when I thought it was going to Putzfan

I watched JetsExtra tonite and it was pretty good. Vilma mentioned how they just got whomped, and how they were looking forward to getting back on the field "to get the bad taste out of our mouth", plus he mentioned it is a division game, and they know its important. So, we'll see...

[PatsFanTX]

I watched JetsExtra tonite and it was pretty good. Vilma mentioned how they just got whomped, and how they were looking forward to getting back on the field "to get the bad taste out of our mouth", plus he mentioned it is a division game, and they know its important. So, we'll see...

The game against the Phins will be the first defining game in Mangini's early career.

Let's see how the team rebounds after a blow out loss.

This game will tell alot.

[Gainzo]

The game against the Phins will be the first defining game in Mangini's early career.

Let's see how the team rebounds after a blow out loss.

This game will tell alot.

Very true.

The Dolphins D played very well against the Pats last week. If it wasn't for Joey "INT" Harrington it may have been a different outcome against the Pats.

I doubt the Jets will be able to mount any kind of a running game, so it is going to come down to Penny vs. the DB's.

I would watch but I will be at the Ravens/Panthers game on Sunday.

[Jetsfan80]

While I still don't see the playoffs as a realistic goal, my expectations have steadily increased since the offseason. After Herm left, we were improved no matter who the head coach was, and 5 wins was the consensus. Mangini proved his worth, and it seemed more like a 6-win team. As the season got going, we started 2-1, leading me to believe we had a legit shot at 9 wins.

Now, as this team comes back to earth, there's still no reason to believe we can win 8 games. The team will improve as the season goes on, particularly in the run blocking. We can beat at least a dozen teams in the NFL with the current roster and steal a win or 2 from teams we aren't supposed to beat.

[Barton]

This is an 8-8 team, which isnt bad.

But riddle me this......

Is Jonathan Vilma part of the future of this team? If so, the 3-4 defense aint gonna work, ever.

There's a reason there are only about 3 good 3-4 defenses in the league (Pats, Steelers, Chargers), and why many have failed and reverted back to the 4-3 in the past 2 years (Raiders, Texans, Ravens etc etc), its almost impossible to find a very good 3-4 nose tackle. And even the pats, 1 of the teams I listed as 1 of the 3 good 3-4 defenses, isnt even that good of a defense.

I know I probably sound like an a##hole right now, but sorry I dont see this 3-4 defense panning out if Jonathan Vilma is gonna be the teams defensive captain. Combine him being a complete waste in the 3-4, its even bigger of a task to find a good nose tackle.

[PatsFanTX]

This is an 8-8 team, which isnt bad.

But riddle me this......

Is Jonathan Vilma part of the future of this team? If so, the 3-4 defense aint gonna work, ever.

You don't know that yet.

Mangini is not going to give up on Vilma as part of the 3-4 defense.

He is too good, and more importantly, too athletic to think he can't adjust.

This is a huge change for Vilma, and he will have some growing pains this year, but great players will adapt.

Remember how pissed Ray Lewis was in his first year playing in the 3-4?

How did that turn out.

You have to give Vilma the entire 16 games before you can evaluate.

[Jetsfan80]

Remember how pissed Ray Lewis was in his first year playing in the 3-4?

How did that turn out.

Can we please, PLEASE stop trying to compare Vilma to a murderer?

[Barton]

You don't know that yet.

Mangini is not going to give up on Vilma as part of the 3-4 defense.

He is too good, and more importantly, too athletic to think he can't adjust.

This is a huge change for Vilma, and he will have some growing pains this year, but great players will adapt.

Remember how pissed Ray Lewis was in his first year playing in the 3-4?

How did that turn out.

You have to give Vilma the entire 16 games before you can evaluate.

Ray Lewis hated the 3-4 and asked to be traded. That and didnt he get injured a few seasons ago while in the 3-4 defense?

Obviously it was a complete waste for the ravens, because they abandoned that.

[PatsFanTX]

Ray Lewis hated the 3-4 and asked to be traded. That and didnt he get injured a few seasons ago while in the 3-4 defense?

Obviously it was a complete waste for the ravens, because they abandoned that.

Correct me if I'm wrong little doushey, but wasn't Ray Lewis the DPOY when he was in the 3-4?

All I am saying is that it is a huge adjustment for Vilma.

It will take time.

[Maxman]

The Jets are in a huge transition year but many fans still think they can be competitive, make a run at the playoffs and win 9 or 10 games.

That is just not going to happen.

So you think the Jets might win 8. But the fans that think the Jets can win 9 are wrong. Gotcha.

The Jets schedule isn't that tough. The next 3 weeks will tell a lot. If they win 2 of 3 they are 4 and 4 at the break. But look at the Jets last 6 games.

SUN 10/154:15PMMIAMICBS-2SUN 10/221:00PMDETROITFOX-5SUN 10/294:15PM@CLEVELANDCBS-2SUN 11/5BYE WEEKSUN 11/12TBA@NEW ENGLANDTBASUN 11/19TBACHICAGOTBASUN 11/26TBAHOUSTONTBASUN 12/3TBA@GREEN BAYTBASUN 12/10TBABUFFALOTBASUN 12/17TBA@MINNESOTATBAMON 12/258:30PM@MIAMIESPNSUN 12/31TBAOAKLANDTBA

[Barton]

Correct me if I'm wrong little doushey, but wasn't Ray Lewis the DPOY when he was in the 3-4?

All I am saying is that it is a huge adjustment for Vilma.

It will take time.

wow this is weird.

Before the seasons started it was YOU who was essentially saying Vilma would suck in the 3-4, and I said "Well Ray Lewis was dpoy in the 3-4"

Now its reversed. YOU ARE MY DOOSHEY PUPPET!

[JetCane]

Is Jonathan Vilma part of the future of this team? If so, the 3-4 defense aint gonna work, ever.

Unknown.

If things dont turn around for him, I wouldnt put it past them to make him part of a blockbuster trade after the season. It's a more difficult transition asking him to do it w/o the benefit of a legit NT, so that makes it more difficult to assess. I watched some film today and I see him making mistakes he would never have made if he was playing in the 4-3.

[AVM]

The game against the Phins will be the first defining game in Mangini's early career.

Let's see how the team rebounds after a blow out loss.

This game will tell alot.

I was actually thinking that exactly. Bottom line is, they have to come out and play tough, with a well thought out game-plan. You know the potential is there for a good offense gameplan, as schott. has shown his ability to earlier in the year...and i have no clue what they can do defensively, but its gotta be something new.

[PatsFanTX]

wow this is weird.

Before the seasons started it was YOU who was essentially saying Vilma would suck in the 3-4, and I said "Well Ray Lewis was dpoy in the 3-4"

Now its reversed. YOU ARE MY DOOSHEY PUPPET!

Come on JI Joe, stick with the facts please.

Before the season started I said Vilma would have a "huge transition" to the 3-4 and would probably struggle, I never said he would suck.

Go back and pull up those threads.

The search feature is free here.

[Boozer76]

As to a few points in this thread:

Jetcane-I know you mentioned you felt they would be competitive in TC. I think so far they have proven they can be just that. JAX was a complete disaster and I really don't think you can bottle that single game as an example of performance. They **** the bed completely, it can happen with a team like the Jets. I don't foresee it happening agin except maybe CHI.

I think what we can all agree on is our roster deficiencies are quite prominent, and I don't think it is the fault of our current regime. How this regime addresses those deficiencies is what will define this team over the next 5 years. We need a fat, hole clogging DT/NG who can get the job done. Plain and simple. Until we have one it is unfair to determine whether or not Vilma will fit into future plans. As I've stated in the past i am a fan of the 3-4 D. I'd much prefer to field a solid 3-4 as opposed to a 4-3. I feel that if you have a great DT/NG in the 3-4 you can afford to have average LB's and still be quite successful due to the greater ability to disguise your schemes. A solid 4-3 D requires great DT's, DE's, and LB's who can cover alot of ground. Paying for a great front 7 costs alot more than paying a great DT and surrounding him with gritty LB's like Bruschi and the likes.

The bottom line, until we have a great DT and a solid OL everything else is meaningless. Given the quality of talent, or lack there of, I think Mangini has been doing a good job so far. He still hasn't even hois his midterm yet so I'm not about to annoint him. His style of coaching can lose his players very quickly as well as deter possible FA's from wanting to come here. We shall see how things go in the future.

[crashingjet]

Between today and the preseason? No one seriously felt this team would be competitive at all, mostly giving us 5-7 wins on the season. We knew the D was going to stink, we knew the OL would be a big concern, and we knew the RB position would also be an issue. We also knew the 3-4 D would come with some growing pains, yet most were still convinced we weren't going to have a good 4-3 D either so we might as well strart the change now. So again I ask, what is the difference? Why are we now bitching and moaning so incessantly about the D, the OL, the RB, the 3-4, the HC, ajnd anything else we can possibly bitch about? Why all the sudden is the sky falling after getting spanked by the Jags?

Only one thing has changed since the preseason, and it is us, the fans. That change occured the moment the IND game ended, and it is further egged on by the fact that our schedule looks even more cupcake-like by the minute. Because we nearly beat IND, the concensus powerhouse of the AFC, fans started to become far too hopeful. We started to actually believe we can hang with the big guns even with our crappy roster. We were handed a gigantic dose of reality in JAX and now we don't like it. Don't get me wrong, we're not nearly as bad as that 41-0 drubbing, but we are also not nearly s good as the upper echelon of NFL teams either. It5's time to keep our composure and keep our wits about us. We are about to face 3 aweful teams, teams that may actually be worse than us. There is a good chance we will end up 5-3 going into the bye week. Furthermore, given that the rest of the schedule isn't any tougher, we might actually have a chance to go 10-6 if we get a few bounces our way. That's how easy our schedule is. But that is just the luck of the draw when it comes to NFL schedules. A tougher schedule could easily have us at 0-5 right now and 3-13 on the season.

The mistake we as fans are making is actually believing that this year's team is the one to build upon and change for the purposes of this season. Moving players around, changing schemes, cutting this guy, signing that guy. The future of this team is far more important, and that means being consistent with scheming, playing the guys who will need the experience, young coaches growing from experience and mistakes, etc... The bottom line is we all knew the players would make mistakes this year, and the coaches would also do the same. For the most part they have been solid until they all sh*t the bed vs JAX. It's probably going to happen again sometime this season. But this whole sky is falling, Mangini sucks, cut this guy, change the schemes, bench that guy mentality really needs to simmer down a bit. At 2-2 Mangini was probably a COY candidate. Now we want to kill him at 2-3. We've got a long rocky season ahead of us, flipping out now is only going to lead to serious heartburn and agitation for the games ahead of us. Enjoy the ride, this team is going to end up far better than anyone expected this past preseason.

We'll see how "level headed" you are after Manginia's first loss to the mighty Dolphins of Miami. GO FINS!!!!!!!!!