Chad Pennington 2006 Vs. Drew Brees 2002

[The Troll]

I'm pretty sure a healthy Deuce was all-world prior to Drew Brees.

You mean the two previous seasons, where he averaged a combined 3.8 YPC?

He was healthy in both of those seasons before he blew his knee out. He just sucked prior to the injuries.

It's no coincidence that Deuce's two best seasons also happened to be the two best seasons of Aaron Brooks' career. Deuce blows unless he has very good QB play. Last year, he had it.

[#27TheDominator]

You mean the two previous seasons, where he averaged a combined 3.8 YPC?

He was healthy in both of those seasons before he blew his knee out. He just sucked prior to the injuries.

It's no coincidence that Deuce's two best seasons also happened to be the two best seasons of Aaron Brooks' career. Deuce blows unless he has very good QB play. Last year, he had it.

Chicken or egg?

Why does Clemens need all this "seasoning" and "experience" to succeed? What young qbs have been successful in your eyes? Brady? He sat on the bench and only got to start because Mo nearly killed Bledsoe. He won the super bowl in his first meaningful experience. Big Ben? Tommy Maddox, a guy I thought was the dog of dogs, was having a great season and got ko'ed. Big Ben came in and ran off what? 15 straight? He won the super bowl the following year. Rivers sat on his ass for a couple of years, came in and went deep into the playoffs. Is Rivers not ready because he doesn't have enough game experience of because he's just not ready?

Clemens was not a top 3 pick that needs to start right away or look like a bust. In fact, he might have been a bit of a reach because they weren't sure about Pennington. Qbs that started right away: Eli-looks like **** and his "experience" is only making him look worse. David Carr - enough said. Guys that deserved to start from the get go Peyton or Carson Palmer are the exact guys you'd be claiming couldn't win the big one or underachieved and choked. Isn

[The Troll]

Chicken or egg?

Why does Clemens need all this "seasoning" and "experience" to succeed? What young qbs have been successful in your eyes? Brady? He sat on the bench and only got to start because Mo nearly killed Bledsoe. He won the super bowl in his first meaningful experience. Big Ben? Tommy Maddox, a guy I thought was the dog of dogs, was having a great season and got ko'ed. Big Ben came in and ran off what? 15 straight? He won the super bowl the following year. Rivers sat on his ass for a couple of years, came in and went deep into the playoffs. Is Rivers not ready because he doesn't have enough game experience of because he's just not ready?

Clemens was not a top 3 pick that needs to start right away or look like a bust. In fact, he might have been a bit of a reach because they weren't sure about Pennington. Qbs that started right away: Eli-looks like **** and his "experience" is only making him look worse. David Carr - enough said. Guys that deserved to start from the get go Peyton or Carson Palmer are the exact guys you'd be claiming couldn't win the big one or underachieved and choked. Isn

[Sperm Edwards]

In 2002 the rules were different. There was no "Ty Law" rule in effect until the 2004 season. Chad in 2006 was playing with easier "hands off the receivers" rules than Brees played with in 2002.

[The Troll]

In 2002 the rules were different. There was no "Ty Law" rule in effect until the 2004 season. Chad in 2006 was playing with easier "hands off the receivers" rules than Brees played with in 2002.

Not to mention that San Diego's leading receiver in 2002 was, ironically enough, Curtis ****ing Conway.

[Sperm Edwards]

Not to mention that San Diego's leading receiver in 2002 was, ironically enough, Curtis ****ing Conway.

#2 was Tim Dwight

[#27TheDominator]

Brady, Roethlisberger, and Rivers have been the exceptions to the rule. Are you saying that you don't believe young QBs have growing pains? Those guys were lucky to be thrown into a great situation on an exceptionally talented team. Hell, the aforementioned Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer both went through growing pains. Ben Roethlisberger is going through them now. As lights out as Tony Romo was early on this season, he came crashing back down to Earth in December. Everyone is going to go through them and it's best to go through it now whenever we (honestly) are not a championship contender. Better to take the lumps now so that the QB is ready by the time the rest of the team is.

Which brings me to my next point: what if Kellen Clemens is a bust? Wouldn't you rather find out sooner, rather than later? We're wasting time with Chad. He's never going to get us anywhere we haven't been in the last five years. If Chad starts for another year or two, and then Clemens struggles his first couple years as a starter, what happens then? It's five years from now, the rest of the team is championship caliber, but we have no quarterback. And it's back to the drawing board once again. We can't dick around with this forever. They are going to have to see what they have in Clemens. It's not like he'll play one game and we'll know. It will take a couple of seasons at the very minimum. If he's the real deal, awesome, but if he's not, we are ****ed. The sooner he gets in, the more time we have to un**** ourselves if he sucks.

It does absolutely nothing for the team if Chad Pennington is the starting QB. This was not a one year rebuilding project that Eric Mangini signed on for. Next year is exactly like last year: it's about the future, not the present. A lot of Jets fans seem to have forgotten that.

I'm saying it doesn't matter which you get first. The championship team or the "championship qb." Roethlisberger is going through growing pains? He's been a starter all that time and he's still not ready? Brady and Big Ben are flukes? Who the hell else has won a superbowl? Crappy qbs and Peyton Manning.

I disagree that we need to see Clemens in a game to determine he's a bust. You or I won't know for sure, but the coaches and players sure will. If he's a bust I'd just as soon he never sees the field. Pennington is a decent qb (or great qb + crappy arm = decent qb) I could see last year from his limited attempts that Clemens had no business starting any games. It would have helped nothing to start him.

If Chad gives the team the best chance to win, leave him out there. The future is now in the NFL. If Clemens is close to even then you go with the young guy, but if he's considerably worse he can sit on his ass all damn year for all I care. Maybe there'll be a big upgrade through the draft or FA and he'll never see the field.

Not to mention that San Diego's leading receiver in 2002 was, ironically enough, Curtis ****ing Conway.

Is he related to Gary ****ing Reasons?

[Sperm Edwards]

Is he related to Gary ****ing Reasons?

You are playing with fire.

[The Troll]

I'm saying it doesn't matter which you get first. The championship team or the "championship qb." Roethlisberger is going through growing pains? He's been a starter all that time and he's still not ready? Brady and Big Ben are flukes? Who the hell else has won a superbowl? Crappy qbs and Peyton Manning.

I disagree that we need to see Clemens in a game to determine he's a bust. You or I won't know for sure, but the coaches and players sure will. If he's a bust I'd just as soon he never sees the field. Pennington is a decent qb (or great qb + crappy arm = decent qb) I could see last year from his limited attempts that Clemens had no business starting any games. It would have helped nothing to start him.

If Chad gives the team the best chance to win, leave him out there. The future is now in the NFL. If Clemens is close to even then you go with the young guy, but if he's considerably worse he can sit on his ass all damn year for all I care. Maybe there'll be a big upgrade through the draft or FA and he'll never see the field.

Is he related to Gary ****ing Reasons?

So, you are honestly sitting there and telling me that young QBs don't have to go through growing pains because Tom Brady did not? That's bull****. It's ridiculous.

And, yes, Roethlisberger DID go through growing pains last season. He was only 24 years old last season. In his first two seasons, the Steelers were able to protect him because the rest of their team was so good. Last year was the first time in his career Big Ben threw at least 300 passes and he indeed looked like a 24 year old, not a Super Bowl winner that won his first 14 career starts.

PRACTICE is not the game. A guy can look like complete **** in practice and play lights out on Sundays, and vice versa. I mean, if practice were the game, we'd have an all-pro receiver by the name of Chad Gessner. But, it's not. If he were a seventh round pick, it would be different. But, he's not. He's a second round pick. Who the Jets traded up for. He has to get on the field, the REAL field, before they truly know what's there.

Chad gives the Jets the best chance to go 9-7 or 10-6. And lose in one of the first two rounds of the playoffs. La di frickin' da. I'd rather go 7-9 or 6-10 if it means going 11-5 or 12-4 two years from now.

[Cotch-Rocket]

Jay Cutler - has proved nothing yet, his team fell right out of the playoffs when he came in

Tony Romo - Showed good flashes and also stunk it up at times, has proved nothing.

JP Losman - proved nothing

Matt Hasselbeck - him and his career 85 passer rating are less than impressive and he is a 9 year vet now...

Marc Bulger - fantasy football king, nothing more

Eli Manning - perfect example of a good young QB prospect stinking it up

Jason Campbell - Who? What has he done?

Leftwich - has almost lost his starting job...

Big Ben - Great Defense... this guy is over rated... even you know this

Travaris Jackson - They put him in over Brad Johnson and Brooks... cmon... what has he done?

Chris Simms - He hasnt proven anything and might not even be a starter anymore...

When Chad Pennington plays for the NYJ, they win, they get in the playoffs, and with a running game and some improvements on D (we couldnt stop ANYBODY in the 4th Q) we will win in the playoffs.

Do you ever decide to back up your opinions with facts, or do you just say, this is my opinion, and it's right?

Roethlisberger is overrated, yes, but still younger than Chad and has shown flashes of being way better.

Bulger isn't better because... why? His team hasn't one? Not his fault. He's been a good quarterback. Better than Pennington.

Excluding Hasselbeck's down year last year, where he was injured as well as his franchise RB, he's better than Pennington. His receivers drop a lot, too. He's probably on the downside of his career, though.

I already went over JP Losman in the other thread:

Good try. This was his first year where he started 16 games. The year before, he played in 9 and started 8 because he did do terrible. Rookie season, he played in 4 and started 0.

Last year, he one more turnover (21 to 20), more TDs (20 to 17), less yards (by 301), higher YPA (by 0.20), higher rating (84.9 to 82.6), and 2 less completion % points. He's also younger and has had two less rotator cuff surgeries. You could call it a push, but I'd lean towards Losman.

He has improved since his first year as a starter.

Plus, he has way more mobility.

It was Cutler's rookie year and he played five games, so he can't even be judged against Pennington. He has the potential to be better, though, and at this point, I'd take a young quarterback who has looked good and hasn't had two shoulder surgeries on his throwing arm over Pennington.

It's hard to base Romo off of one year, but he DEFINITELY looked better than Chad last year. If you want to discredit him for being good some games and bad others, then maybe you should judge Pennington the same way, ya think?

I'll give you Chad over Tavaris Jackson and Jason Campbell only because of their inexperience.

I'll definitely take Chad over Chris Simms and Byron Leftwich, because he's better than both.

Eli Manning is tough to call, because his numbers kind of look better than Chad's, but watching him play is absolutely nervewracking, moreso than Pennington, which I didn't think was possible. He's still young, but I'd call it a push/coin toss between those two.

[#27TheDominator]

So, you are honestly sitting there and telling me that young QBs don't have to go through growing pains because Tom Brady did not? That's bull****. It's ridiculous.

And, yes, Roethlisberger DID go through growing pains last season. He was only 24 years old last season. In his first two seasons, the Steelers were able to protect him because the rest of their team was so good. Last year was the first time in his career Big Ben threw at least 300 passes and he indeed looked like a 24 year old, not a Super Bowl winner that won his first 14 career starts.

PRACTICE is not the game. A guy can look like complete **** in practice and play lights out on Sundays, and vice versa. I mean, if practice were the game, we'd have an all-pro receiver by the name of Chad Gessner. But, it's not. If he were a seventh round pick, it would be different. But, he's not. He's a second round pick. Who the Jets traded up for. He has to get on the field, the REAL field, before they truly know what's there.

Chad gives the Jets the best chance to go 9-7 or 10-6. And lose in one of the first two rounds of the playoffs. La di frickin' da. I'd rather go 7-9 or 6-10 if it means going 11-5 or 12-4 two years from now.

Growing pains don't have to cost the season. Big Ben had "growing pains" because he is young? He had how many starts? 30? 35? So what's the sense of rushing Clemens if Big Ben couldn't get them out of the way in 2 long seasons as starter?

Practice isn't a game. A player can look great in practice and suck in the game. Like Gessner. If a player looks like **** in practice he is too inconsistent to start. No matter what Iverson says. Established vets can coast in practice, 2nd year qbs can't.

You say 9-7/10-6 like it's a curse. 10-6 with that collection of stiffs we had last year was a miracle. Sure the schedule was easy, but the team was short on talent. A 10-6 team can easily go 12-4 with a few breaks. If a qb can go 10-6 he can win the big game. Period.

I agree with being willing to take a step back to take two forward, but I'm not sure that's the case here. You have to earn the right to have "growing pains." If Clemens is ready to compete and we just aren't sure how far he can take us I will have no problems with him starting even knowing it will cost a game or two. If he looks lost like last year he can't start. Just throwing him out there because you want a change is bull**** too.

You are playing with fire.

Phillip. ****ing. I was close.

[Jetlag]

You mean the two previous seasons, where he averaged a combined 3.8 YPC?

He was healthy in both of those seasons before he blew his knee out. He just sucked prior to the injuries.

It's no coincidence that Deuce's two best seasons also happened to be the two best seasons of Aaron Brooks' career. Deuce blows unless he has very good QB play. Last year, he had it.

Once again Troll you're being very black and white. First of all he only played 5 games in 2005, which greatly skews his numbers. Secondly the Saints were 2-3 and in those 3 losses lost the games 152-29. Which would dramatically kill any RB's numbers. Shaun Alexander was in a similar situation last year, where he got off to a slow start, got injured and didn't have enough time to level off his numbers.

Look my point is this, I like Drew Brees, who doesn't. In fact anyone not in Indy or NE would love to have the guy behind center for their team. I'm just pointing out that Drew Brees is not the total reason for his success, just like almost ANY player EVER.

[GimmeShelter]

Dont worry, I will have gimmeshelter apply the cream on your beat red a$$ after I drive it into the ground.

Don't forget JetMoses also thinks' you're a clown on this issue.

It's the old spoiled brat fan syndrome. When the Yanks lose you focus on ARod relentlessly.....with the Jets it's the QB position.

You are entitled to your position on both subjects but as has been pointed out, the beligerent, downgrading attitude you bring along with your opinion shows your childishness. Same for a couple of your comrades.

[Barton]

Don't forget JetMoses also thinks' you're a clown on this issue.

It's the old spoiled brat fan syndrome. When the Yanks lose you focus on ARod relentlessly.....with the Jets it's the QB position.

You are entitled to your position on both subjects but as has been pointed out, the beligerent, downgrading attitude you bring along with your opinion shows your childishness. Same for a couple of your comrades.

Not for nothing, but fyi I was rarely if ever bashing Arod last year during the season. A couple times nothing more. And if he leaves after this year, I would have been right to say we should have traded him, and you will be wrong to have said we should keep him so you're gonna have to let that one play out (like that has anything to do with this discussion somehow)

Oh and I'll let jetmo help apply the cream too.

[BoomBoomMancini]

Troll, Tangini is obviously trying to win now...

Why else would they trade a draft pick for a 29 year old RB?

Kellen Clemens is not Peyton Manning..

He wasnt draft #2 overall, he was drafted 56th overall, and he doesn't have a 10 million dollar signing bonus;

Like it or not this may be the most talented Jets team since 1999

I was right about the talent on this team.