GimmeShelter Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 One source told Newsday the Yankees plan to make a "good, strong offer" for Johan Santana and that they believe they have more to offer the Twins in a trade than anybody else does. Santana still has full no-trade protection at the moment, though that wasn't extended into 2008 because he failed to finish in the top three in Cy Young balloting, and it sounds as if he'll demand an extension as part of a trade. Whether or not the Yankees truly have more talent to offer up, they definitely have the ability to pay him like no one else. That alone may make them the favorites to acquire him. Source: Newsday Melky I would think is a given. What part of Hughes-Chamberlain and Cano also get included in the offer will be interesting. I think at the end of the day it's Melky- Cano and Kennedy.....Twins have enough good young pitching to let the Yanks keep Hughes and Joba in a Santana deal. Trading Cano will be painfull though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 don't trade Cano!! trade Melky and Hughes and some other prospects the only way to trade Cano is if Francisco Liriano is a throw in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Trading Cano would be stupid. Santana is a tad overrated, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Trading Cano would be stupid. Santana is a tad overrated, too. Johan Santana is the best pitcher on the damn planet hands down nobody has a better body of work over the last 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I guarantee that the Yankees do not trade Cano. Not a chance. Ditto Joba. And I dont think Hughes will be traded either. I think the Yankees might just go with Kennedy+Melky+other parts and tell the twins to take the deal or enjoy letting Santana walk to free agency. Though maybe the Yankees use Wang as the centerpiece in the deal instead - maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Wang is expendable if we get Johan but I'd like to keep the kid if possible, he's a great #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 I guarantee that the Yankees do not trade Cano. Not a chance. Ditto Joba. And I dont think Hughes will be traded either. I think the Yankees might just go with Kennedy+Melky+other parts and tell the twins to take the deal or enjoy letting Santana walk to free agency. Though maybe the Yankees use Wang as the centerpiece in the deal instead - maybe. The Twins do have a young 2b in their system so maybe they don't press for Cano. This notion you make that the Yanks are dictating the trade and will be telling the Twins to take our bargain basement offer or lose Santana needs some rethinking sport. RSox, Angels BOTH have the goods and the cash to aquire/extend Johann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 red sox don't need him, they need a young bat because their best hitters are getting old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Don't make this trade. Period. Damon can't play CF, and Hunter already signed elsewhere, so we'll be hard-up for a CF if we do make this deal. Toss in giving up Cano, which leaves us with a hole at 2B and this just doesn't make sense. Position players help you win EVERY DAY. Pitchers can win at most once every 5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 red sox don't need him, they need a young bat because their best hitters are getting old No worse than the Yanks and Ellsbury and Pedroia show promise. Everyone needs Johan Santana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Don't make this trade. Period. Damon can't play CF, and Hunter already signed elsewhere, so we'll be hard-up for a CF if we do make this deal. Toss in giving up Cano, which leaves us with a hole at 2B and this just doesn't make sense. Position players help you win EVERY DAY. Pitchers can win at most once every 5 days. Sign Rowand plus if you keep Melky you have a log jam with Melky-Abreu-Damon-Giambi- and Matsui unless Giambi suddenly shows he can play 1B everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 No worse than the Yanks and Ellsbury and Pedroia show promise. Everyone needs Johan Santana. yanks have robbie cano and hes in his mid 20's. i'll take his production over Ellsbury (fluke rookie year) and Pedroia (too small to have a long career). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 yanks have robbie cano and hes in his mid 20's. i'll take his production over Ellsbury (fluke rookie year) and Pedroia (too small to have a long career). Which has nothing to do with the point that both teams have aging hitters other than the fact that the Sox just had 2 young players have big post seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Which has nothing to do with the point that both teams have aging hitters other than the fact that the Sox just had 2 young players have big post seasons. and what are the odds they ever live up to this last post season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 The Twins do have a young 2b in their system so maybe they don't press for Cano. This notion you make that the Yanks are dictating the trade and will be telling the Twins to take our bargain basement offer or lose Santana needs some rethinking sport. RSox, Angels BOTH have the goods and the cash to aquire/extend Johann. I didnt say it was the right call, only that I think its possible thats all the Yankees might offer. Nobody is going to empty their entire farm system for Santana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 the mets might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 the mets might Its hard to empty something that is already empty, dont you think? Just ask Smizzy about his night with thor. Poor bastid is built like a musket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 posted: Saturday, November 24, 2007 | The Johan Santana sweepstakes are about to begin, writes Kat O'Brien. In a report earlier in the week, there was mention that the Twins had offered a five-year, $93 million deal, and that Santana might be looking for something in the Barry Zito range -- an inference to the seven-year, $126 million dollar deal that Zito got from San Francisco last winter. Heard from a well-placed source that the Twins' offer was four years and $80 million, and in fact, Barry Zito money is significantly less than what Santana may be looking for. In fact, Santana may open contract discussions for something in the range of six years and $150 million, beginning with the 2009 season (the left-hander is under contract for $13.25 million for next season). This will make it extraordinarily difficult for the Twins to trade the left-hander, because of the dynamics that are in play: 1. Santana has a no-trade clause, which means that he can decline any deal unless the team making the swap for him agrees to give him what he wants -- and he is in position to ask for a deal that will redefine the ceiling of what pitchers are paid. Say that the Red Sox arranged for the framework of a trade with the Twins. Santana would use the no-trade clause as leverage to ask the Red Sox (or any other team) for the record-setting deal, and he would be in position to effectively name his price. He could say, Pay me what I want, or else I'll kill the deal and just wait for free agency. And remember how remarkable a salary of $25 million would be -- Santana would be the first pitcher ever to receive a multiyear deal worth at least $20 million, and his deal would go far beyond that, by about 25 percent. "Do you know how much it would cost to insure a deal like that?" an executive with another team asked rhetorically. 2. Because of Santana's apparent salary requirements, any team looking to trade for the left-hander would not only be asked to give up a boatload of prospects -- including at least one or two of their very best prospects -- but then also pay him a record-setting contract. If you are the Red Sox, should you be willing to trade Clay Buchholz and/or Jon Lester and/or Jacoby Ellsbury -- and then throw in a $150 million contract extension? Or would you rather just take your chances and wait to bid on Santana if he becomes available next fall? If you are the Yankees, should you offer Phil Hughes and others now and then give Santana the biggest pitcher contract ever, or should you wait? 3. Lest there be any doubt, there will be a team willing to give up prospects in a Santana deal. The Mets, for instance, might be very aggressive and agree to give up a package of players while knowing how much they might have to pay the left-hander. But then the Twins will have to ask themselves, before agreeing -- are we getting enough in return? Say the Mets offered outfielder Lastings Milledge and pitchers Mike Pelfrey, Phil Humber and Joe Smith. Billy Smith, Minnesota's new general manager, is in his first year, and if he trades Santana, the deal will go a long way toward shaping his legacy, and perhaps his future. A Santana deal would also go a long way toward determining the relationship between the Twins and their fan base in the immediate future -- a fan base that is paying for the ballpark being built for the Twins. Would a package of Milledge, Humber and Pelfrey be enough, when weighed against the backlash that Smith and the organization will feel if they trade the planet's best pitcher? Is any deal enough? Smith will have to ask himself: Would it be better to hang on to Santana for 2008 and hope that he and Francisco Liriano lead the Twins back into the pennant race next season? The Twins could always revisit trade talks next July, if the team is falling out of the race. Smith will have to ask himself this: Might it be better for the Twins, as an organization, to keep Santana through next year and then settle for two compensation draft picks when he leaves as a free agent? Because the cost to the organization, in fan-base goodwill and ticket-sale backlash, might be greater than the difference in the value of a Santana trade now and the value of two draft picks. The safer play for the Twins, in how they are perceived by Twins fans, might be to let Santana walk away on his own, rather than put him on a platter and hand him to the Yankees or the Red Sox or some big-market team. Given all the factors that have to be considered, it may be very hard for Smith to agree to a trade and for any interested team to finish the deal. We'll see. The Twins are determined to not let Santana go free, writes Joe Christensen -- meaning that a trade could be in order. Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury should be untouchables for the Red Sox in any Santana deal, writes Steve Buckley. The departure of Torii Hunter signals a move in the wrong direction, writes Tom Powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Its hard to empty something that is already empty, dont you think? hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Sign Rowand plus if you keep Melky you have a log jam with Melky-Abreu-Damon-Giambi- and Matsui unless Giambi suddenly shows he can play 1B everyday. Melky and Abreu aren't involved in that "logjam" at all. Melky is the everyday CF. Damon/Matsui/Giambi is the problem. All three are potential DHs, Damon and Matsui are potential LF and Giambi is just a turd. You only resolve that problem by dumping one of those three -- which won't happen unless the Twins want Damon in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 First of all , pitching wins championships. That being said, Joba is untouchable. If he gets traded, I'm driving to Ny and having a hunger strike in front of Yankee stadium. The Yankees clearly need Santana. What is he worth ? Every pitcher in MLB is one throw away from a career ending injury. It's a gamble no mattter what. I would cough up Melky and Hughes. Even is Hughes becomes a great pitcher....Santana is ALREADY that. I wouldn't throw in Cano either. Hughes Kennedy and Melky. It will be similar to the Knoblauch trade. We get a guy to get us there NOW...they benefit in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 First of all , pitching wins championships. That being said, Joba is untouchable. If he gets traded, I'm driving to Ny and having a hunger strike in front of Yankee stadium. The Yankees clearly need Santana. What is he worth ? Every pitcher in MLB is one throw away from a career ending injury. It's a gamble no mattter what. I would cough up Melky and Hughes. Even is Hughes becomes a great pitcher....Santana is ALREADY that. I wouldn't throw in Cano either. Hughes Kennedy and Melky. It will be similar to the Knoblauch trade. We get a guy to get us there NOW...they benefit in the future. Why would you give up Hughes and not Chamberlain? You, yourself mentioned that you would trade Hughes even if he becomes a great pitcher. Isn't that the reason why you wouldn't trade Chamberlain? I don't want to give up any of those two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I don't think the Yankees should be giving up any of their Big 3 pitching prospects. Trading Melky away is fine. He's a nice player, but nothing they cannot replace with somebody else. Unfortunately, you're not getting Santana without sending the Twins at least one young pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I don't think the Yankees should be giving up any of their Big 3 pitching prospects. Trading Melky away is fine. He's a nice player, but nothing they cannot replace with somebody else. Unfortunately, you're not getting Santana without sending the Twins at least one young pitcher. Which is exactly why I don't think the trade will happen. I agree with your post, I wouldn't give up any of them. If the Yankees try to develop these young pitchers and finish in 4th place next year, they will get a pass from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Which is exactly why I don't think the trade will happen. I agree with your post, I wouldn't give up any of them. If the Yankees try to develop these young pitchers and finish in 4th place next year, they will get a pass from me. Max, you would not trade Kennedy-Melky and say a A-level prospect that the Twins scouts(some of the best in BB) like for Santana? Come on. How these young unproven pitchers( cept for Joba) equate to untouchable in a Sanatana deal by Yank fans is beyond comprehension. If you were a small market team, yes you could point to salaries.....psst....You're not. You just spent 400 million in contracts on players at or past their prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Peter Gammons is reporting that the Twins will want Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson in a package for Johan Santana. That's not such a ridiculous demand. The Yankees have to know they're not getting Santana without giving up one of their three young studs, and the Twins likely will demand Hughes over Ian Kennday. Cabrera isn't the young offensive star the Twins would like, but he will be a solid regular for five years. Jackson improved tremendously in the second half of last season and has the tools to keep it up, but he's still only played like a top prospect for three months. It's still a high price to pay, but it's doubtful Santana can be had for much less. Source: ESPN Insider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Peter Gammons is reporting that the Twins will want Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson in a package for Johan Santana. That's not such a ridiculous demand. The Yankees have to know they're not getting Santana without giving up one of their three young studs, and the Twins likely will demand Hughes over Ian Kennday. Cabrera isn't the young offensive star the Twins would like, but he will be a solid regular for five years. Jackson improved tremendously in the second half of last season and has the tools to keep it up, but he's still only played like a top prospect for three months. It's still a high price to pay, but it's doubtful Santana can be had for much less. Source: ESPN Insider Call me what you will, but I say do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.