Blame Torre ... he deserves it

[Green Jets & Ham]

Yankees cut it to 7-6 in the bottom of the 8th with a huge 3 RUN HR by Matsui ... the crowd is going wild ... all the momentum has swung in the Yankees favor ... you're now ONE RUN away from tying it in the 9th ... ONE GAME TO GO before the All-Star Break ... so WTF are you saving Mariano Rivera for?

Why is Sturtz, and NOT Mariano, pitching in the TOP of the 9th to hold the deficit at ONE RUN?

After tomorrow Mariano gets 3 or four days off ... WTF are you saving him for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure enough the Indians score that crucial 8th Run in the TOP of the 9th ... and Ruben Sierra leads off the BOTTOM of the 9th with a HR ... 8-7 when it could {should} have been 7-7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND THEN ... we get 1st & 2nd with nobody out ... Cano at the plate with THE MEAT OF THE ORDER to follow ... so what does Torre do ... he takes off the bunt and tries to get cute with a hit & run ... that results in STRIKE TWO, the bunt has to come off, and Cano raps into a DP

JUST BUNT THE F**KIN BALL IN THAT SPOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would have given us 2nd & 3rd ... ONE OUT ... with Shef, Arod and Matsui all due up!!!!!!!

WTF MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Green Jets & Ham]

And I don't wanna hear about saving Mariano for extra innings if necessary

THAT IS TOTAL BULL$HIT!!!!!!!!!

YOU HAVE TO TIE THE GAME BEFORE YOU CAN WIN IT!!!!!

When you are down by a run ... AT HOME ... heading to the 9th ... and especially with the All-Star Break looming after tomorrow ... MARIANO HAS TO BE IN THAT GAME IN THE 9TH TO HOLD THE DEFICIT AT ONE!!

CASE EFFIN CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

As it turns out ... that 8th run killed the Yankees

CASE EFFIN CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. This is NOT a second guess ... I was effin shocked when Mariano was NOT on the mound to start the 9th ... speechless ... jaw hanging to the floor ... totally shocked

[Green Jets & Ham]

Boy this loss really pisses me off ... more than any loss this year ... cause we were riding a winning streak, had an opportunity to pull within 2.5 of Boston, and our manager flatout GAVE THIS ONE AWAY

THAT PISSES ME OFF LIKE YOU CANNOT BELIEVE!!!!!!!

I saw Mariano warming up after Matsui hit that 3 RUN JACK in the 8th ... so where the eff was he in the 9th?

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Joe, I love you man, but can you please take your head out of your @$$!!!!!!!!!!!!

The All-Star Break comes after tomorrow ... what are you saving Mariano for ... what, Joe, WHAT?!?!

[Barton]

Couldn't have said it any better

And this isn't the 1st time this has happened exactly like this. Torre hasn't learned from his mistakes. With the way our bats were going, and the ASB coming up, you gotta get this win. Boston lost and the indians are competing for a wild card spot

Stupid loss, just stupid.

[Green Jets & Ham]

Couldn't have said it any better

And this isn't the 1st time this has happened exactly like this. Torre hasn't learned from his mistakes. With the way our bats were going, and the ASB coming up, you gotta get this win. Boston lost and the indians are competing for a wild card spot

Stupid loss, just stupid.

You said it all ... "with the way our bats were going"

You Just knew we would score a run in the 9th ... KNEW IT ... didn't know if we would score two, but you JUST KNEW that at least one run was a lock

It was that kind of game ... the momentum shift was dramatic ... the crowd was going wild ... everyone in the building smelled a comeback ... you just felt it in your bones

YOU GOTTA HAVE A FEEL FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!

As a manager, YOU MUST HAVE A FEEL FOR THAT!!!!!

And you MUST know the circumstances ... ASB after tomorrow, thus nothing to save Mariano for ... and you can't use him to close a game anymore because you either win it in the 9th, lose, or tie the game and take it into extra innings ... as a closer he is complete LOST in that spot ... there is NOTHING TO CLOSE and there can be NOTHING TO CLOSE for the home team because you get last licks ... as a CLOSER he is LOST in THAT SPOT ... but YOU MUST keep the deficit at ONE after that dramatic momentum swing

There was absolutely NO REASON to leave Mariano in the pen to start the 9th ... NONE WHATSOEVER ... that was total brain-lock and it absolutely cost us the game

We lost this game because Torre had a complete brain-lock ... case closed

PS. And here's the part that really kills me ... I SAW MARIANO WARMING UP IN THE PEN after Matsui hit that HR .... SAW IT ... so I was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that he would be on the mound in the TOP of the 9th to keep the deficit at one ... I would have bet my life on it ... I was absolutely flabbergasted/floored when I saw Sturtz {and not Mariano} with the ball in THAT SPOT

EVERYTHING ... and I do mean, EVERYTHING ... EVERYTHING pointed towards Mariano in that spot

EVERYTHING!!!!!

Torre couldn't have managed that 9th {TOP and BOTTOM} any worse if he was TRYING TO THROW THE GAME

Seriously, if he intentionally set out to THROW THE GAME, he could not have done a better job than the job he did in that 9th inning {TOP and BOTTOM}

[GimmeShelter]

Be happy you escaped with Fridy nights win.

Need a 5th starter as Darrel May = give away day and either Wright or Brown will be a injury problem throughout the season.

Since the Mets stunk as well I will give Melky Way a pass on some lame outfield play.

Right on the money with Cano... Torre has to leave the bunt on the entire AB.

A number 2 hitter should have no problem getting the ball down in 3 attempts.

[Barton]

Be happy you escaped with Fridy nights win.

Need a 5th starter as Darrel May = give away day and either Wright or Brown will be a injury problem throughout the season.

Since the Mets stunk as well I will give Melky Way a pass on some lame outfield play.

Right on the money with Cano... Torre has to leave the bunt on the entire AB.

A number 2 hitter should have no problem getting the ball down in 3 attempts.

Cano made a beauty sac bunt just the other day to advance the runners. In this situation today, you just have to lay down the bunt, that was just idiotic to not. Sure they would have walked sheffield intentionally to bring up Arod with a chance at the double play with the bases juiced, but I'll take my chances with bases loaded and 1 out over just a man on 3rd with 2 outs anyday of the week.

Frickin stupid move by Torre.

Lets not forget putting in Stanton in baltimore last week only so he could surrender the game winning home run to brian roberts.

Thats 2 losses in Torres box the past week.

[Maxman]

Bringing Mariano in before they have the lead doesn't make any sense.

So if he holds them and the Yankees tie it up, then Torre gets killed for losing in extra innings.

If it was tied or they had the lead you bring in Mariano. The Yankees lost the past few playoff series because Mariano was overworked during the regular season. If they start bringing him in to keep the game close he will be useless come October.

[Barton]

Bringing Mariano in before they have the lead doesn't make any sense.

So if he holds them and the Yankees tie it up, then Torre gets killed for losing in extra innings.

If it was tied or they had the lead you bring in Mariano. The Yankees lost the past few playoff series because Mariano was overworked during the regular season. If they start bringing him in to keep the game close he will be useless come October.

Dude, we're in 3rd f'n place. This isn't past years where we're in 1st place by a few games. We need to scratch and pull and do our all to win each and every game, ESPECIALLY against potential wild card hopefuls and days when boston loses. Aside from that, Rivera has gotten little work thus far this season and like Ham said, he'll have a break in just a few days.

And with this lineup, I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES IN EXTRA INNINGS

[Barton]

Bringing Mariano in before they have the lead doesn't make any sense.

So if he holds them and the Yankees tie it up, then Torre gets killed for losing in extra innings.

If it was tied or they had the lead you bring in Mariano. The Yankees lost the past few playoff series because Mariano was overworked during the regular season. If they start bringing him in to keep the game close he will be useless come October.

Dude, we're in 3rd f'n place. This isn't past years where we're in 1st place by a few games. We need to scratch and pull and do our all to win each and every game, ESPECIALLY against potential wild card hopefuls and days when boston loses. Aside from that, Rivera has gotten little work thus far this season and like Ham said, he'll have a break in just a few days.

And with this lineup, I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES IN EXTRA INNINGS

[Green Jets & Ham]

Bringing Mariano in before they have the lead doesn't make any sense.

So if he holds them and the Yankees tie it up, then Torre gets killed for losing in extra innings.

If it was tied or they had the lead you bring in Mariano. The Yankees lost the past few playoff series because Mariano was overworked during the regular season. If they start bringing him in to keep the game close he will be useless come October.

Max, the Yankees are home ... once you go to the 9th down by a run, there can be no save opportunities for the home team ... if you are going to use your all world closer at all, it will have to be in the TOP of an inning ... and it had to be the TOP of the 9th because you can't WIN THE GAME unless you TIE THE GAME first

At that point, the #1 priority is to tie the game ... not win the game {that comes next}, but first tie the game ... because you can't win the game unless you can first tie the game in the bottom of the 9th, and you need to do everything possible to stay within one run going to the bottom of the 9th

Now, I will grant you this ... if there was no ASB to begin "IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING TOMORROWS GAME", then you can make a case for sacrificing this ONE GAME {if necessary} to keep Mariano strong for the long haul

BUT ... there is an ASB and IT DOES start immediately following tomorrows game ... at which point Mariano will get three or four days off anyway ... and as EB correctly pointed out, he really hasn't pitched as often this year as in years past either

AND ... you have to have a feel for the way that game was going ... it had all the signs of a comeback win ... I sincerely believe 90% of Yankee fans in that building almost expected the Yankees to score in the 9th after the way that 8th inning went down ... virtually no-one was leaving that building ... you could smell the comeback a mile away ... but ONE RUN is a whole lot different than TWO ... and as I already mentioned, you can't WIN THE GAME unless you TIE IT first {and you only have one last crack to tie it in the 9th, if you don't, GAME OVER} ... and there will be no save opportunities for your closer AT HOME

AND ... Mariano was warmed up and ready to go ... we all saw him throwing in the pen in the 8th, so we know he was ready to pitch that TOP of the 9th {and keep it at one} ... but somehow he never materialized on the mound!

LASTLY, EB is correct again ... these are not years past ... we no longer have the luxury of pissing games away on a whim ... we are in 3rd Place and our arch-rivals are in 1st ... THEY LOST ... and we had an opportunity to CHARGE INTO THE BREAK with an incedible comeback win to cut the lead to 2.5

All things considered .. ALL THINGS .. it is inconceivable too me that Mariano was NOT given the ball in the TOP of the 9th to hold that deficit at one

I love Joe Torre ... I'm not calling for his head or anything as ridiculous as that ... but in my mind he absolutely pissed this game away today

Between the TOP of the 9th when he allowed Mariano to collect dust in the pen, failing to see what was clear to all {i.e. the dramatic momemtum shift and the comeback just waiting to happen, thus the absolute need to keep it at one} ... and the way he managed the BOTTOM of the 9th, taking off the bunt with Cano when the MEAT OF THE ORDER was all to follow {Shef/Arod/Matsui}, and they could have been coming to the plate with 2nd & 3rd, ONE OUT ... IMO Joe Torre could not have managed a worse 9th inning today if his intention was literally to THROW THE GAME

That might have been the worst inning of managing from Joe Torre I have ever seen, in his entire tenure with the Yankees

And it really drives me nuts because that could have been a HUGE WIN heading into the break ... HUGE ... and the team fought so damn hard to get it, but the manager completely brain-locked

[Green Jets & Ham]

Bringing Mariano in before they have the lead doesn't make any sense.

So if he holds them and the Yankees tie it up, then Torre gets killed for losing in extra innings.

If it was tied or they had the lead you bring in Mariano. The Yankees lost the past few playoff series because Mariano was overworked during the regular season. If they start bringing him in to keep the game close he will be useless come October.

Max, the Yankees are home ... once you go to the 9th down by a run, there can be no save opportunities for the home team ... if you are going to use your all world closer at all, it will have to be in the TOP of an inning ... and it had to be the TOP of the 9th because you can't WIN THE GAME unless you TIE THE GAME first

At that point, the #1 priority is to tie the game ... not win the game {that comes next}, but first tie the game ... because you can't win the game unless you can first tie the game in the bottom of the 9th, and you need to do everything possible to stay within one run going to the bottom of the 9th

Now, I will grant you this ... if there was no ASB to begin "IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING TOMORROWS GAME", then you can make a case for sacrificing this ONE GAME {if necessary} to keep Mariano strong for the long haul

BUT ... there is an ASB and IT DOES start immediately following tomorrows game ... at which point Mariano will get three or four days off anyway ... and as EB correctly pointed out, he really hasn't pitched as often this year as in years past either

AND ... you have to have a feel for the way that game was going ... it had all the signs of a comeback win ... I sincerely believe 90% of Yankee fans in that building almost expected the Yankees to score in the 9th after the way that 8th inning went down ... virtually no-one was leaving that building ... you could smell the comeback a mile away ... but ONE RUN is a whole lot different than TWO ... and as I already mentioned, you can't WIN THE GAME unless you TIE IT first {and you only have one last crack to tie it in the 9th, if you don't, GAME OVER} ... and there will be no save opportunities for your closer AT HOME

AND ... Mariano was warmed up and ready to go ... we all saw him throwing in the pen in the 8th, so we know he was ready to pitch that TOP of the 9th {and keep it at one} ... but somehow he never materialized on the mound!

LASTLY, EB is correct again ... these are not years past ... we no longer have the luxury of pissing games away on a whim ... we are in 3rd Place and our arch-rivals are in 1st ... THEY LOST ... and we had an opportunity to CHARGE INTO THE BREAK with an incedible comeback win to cut the lead to 2.5

All things considered .. ALL THINGS .. it is inconceivable too me that Mariano was NOT given the ball in the TOP of the 9th to hold that deficit at one

I love Joe Torre ... I'm not calling for his head or anything as ridiculous as that ... but in my mind he absolutely pissed this game away today

Between the TOP of the 9th when he allowed Mariano to collect dust in the pen, failing to see what was clear to all {i.e. the dramatic momemtum shift and the comeback just waiting to happen, thus the absolute need to keep it at one} ... and the way he managed the BOTTOM of the 9th, taking off the bunt with Cano when the MEAT OF THE ORDER was all to follow {Shef/Arod/Matsui}, and they could have been coming to the plate with 2nd & 3rd, ONE OUT ... IMO Joe Torre could not have managed a worse 9th inning today if his intention was literally to THROW THE GAME

That might have been the worst inning of managing from Joe Torre I have ever seen, in his entire tenure with the Yankees

And it really drives me nuts because that could have been a HUGE WIN heading into the break ... HUGE ... and the team fought so damn hard to get it, but the manager completely brain-locked

[Maxman]

The Yankees have won 6 of 7. They will win Sunday's game. That is 7 of 8 to go into the break.

Stick with the plan for the LONG haul. This team is built to win it all. If they don't it is a failure. To change and use Mariano when they are losing will hurt their chances for winning it all.

Torre has had a rough year. No doubt about it. But was he an idiot during the previous 6 wins?

[Maxman]

The Yankees have won 6 of 7. They will win Sunday's game. That is 7 of 8 to go into the break.

Stick with the plan for the LONG haul. This team is built to win it all. If they don't it is a failure. To change and use Mariano when they are losing will hurt their chances for winning it all.

Torre has had a rough year. No doubt about it. But was he an idiot during the previous 6 wins?

[Green Jets & Ham]

Be happy you escaped with Fridy nights win.

Need a 5th starter as Darrel May = give away day and either Wright or Brown will be a injury problem throughout the season.

Since the Mets stunk as well I will give Melky Way a pass on some lame outfield play.

Right on the money with Cano... Torre has to leave the bunt on the entire AB.

A number 2 hitter should have no problem getting the ball down in 3 attempts.

Believe me, if ever a team walked off the field feeling like they dodged a bullet, it was the Cleveland Indians this afternoon ... with a HUGE ASSIST going to Joe Torre

I'll Guarantee you the Indians felt LUCKY to win a game they led all the way ... led big most of the way ... but still walked off the field feeling like they dodged a HUGE BULLET

And again, a massive assist goes to Joe Torre

[Green Jets & Ham]

Be happy you escaped with Fridy nights win.

Need a 5th starter as Darrel May = give away day and either Wright or Brown will be a injury problem throughout the season.

Since the Mets stunk as well I will give Melky Way a pass on some lame outfield play.

Right on the money with Cano... Torre has to leave the bunt on the entire AB.

A number 2 hitter should have no problem getting the ball down in 3 attempts.

Believe me, if ever a team walked off the field feeling like they dodged a bullet, it was the Cleveland Indians this afternoon ... with a HUGE ASSIST going to Joe Torre

I'll Guarantee you the Indians felt LUCKY to win a game they led all the way ... led big most of the way ... but still walked off the field feeling like they dodged a HUGE BULLET

And again, a massive assist goes to Joe Torre

[Green Jets & Ham]

The Yankees have won 6 of 7. They will win Sunday's game. That is 7 of 8 to go into the break.

Stick with the plan for the LONG haul. This team is built to win it all. If they don't it is a failure. To change and use Mariano when they are losing will hurt their chances for winning it all.

Torre has had a rough year. No doubt about it. But was he an idiot during the previous 6 wins?

But Max, you're missing the point ... the long haul arguement only makes sense if the ASB was not to begin after tomorrows game

Mariano is ASSURED of a long rest this week ... money in the bank ... so what exactly were we saving him from {or for} today?

Were we saving him so he would be rested enough to pitch in the AS-GAME?

[Green Jets & Ham]

The Yankees have won 6 of 7. They will win Sunday's game. That is 7 of 8 to go into the break.

Stick with the plan for the LONG haul. This team is built to win it all. If they don't it is a failure. To change and use Mariano when they are losing will hurt their chances for winning it all.

Torre has had a rough year. No doubt about it. But was he an idiot during the previous 6 wins?

But Max, you're missing the point ... the long haul arguement only makes sense if the ASB was not to begin after tomorrows game

Mariano is ASSURED of a long rest this week ... money in the bank ... so what exactly were we saving him from {or for} today?

Were we saving him so he would be rested enough to pitch in the AS-GAME?

[Green Jets & Ham]

BTW, if there is anyone in this world who was more surprised than me to NOT see Mariano on the hill in the 9th, you better believe it was the Cleveland Indians

They must have been like ... "WOW, THANKS!!"

[Green Jets & Ham]

BTW, if there is anyone in this world who was more surprised than me to NOT see Mariano on the hill in the 9th, you better believe it was the Cleveland Indians

They must have been like ... "WOW, THANKS!!"

[Barton]

Max, "the LONG HAUL" is for this frickin team to dig itself out of the ditch not add dig themselves deeper. Taking 1 step forward and 1 step back doesn't do us any good.

3rd place, Max............3rd PLACE

[Barton]

Max, "the LONG HAUL" is for this frickin team to dig itself out of the ditch not add dig themselves deeper. Taking 1 step forward and 1 step back doesn't do us any good.

3rd place, Max............3rd PLACE

[Maxman]

BTW, if there is anyone in this world who was more surprised than me to NOT see Mariano on the hill in the 9th, you better believe it was the Cleveland Indians

They must have been like ... "WOW, THANKS!!"

I didn't watch the game today, I will be honest. I was buried getting stuff ready for our site maintenance tomorrow.

But the Yankees were losing in the 9th right? My point is if they are losing in the 9th I don't bring him in.

[Maxman]

BTW, if there is anyone in this world who was more surprised than me to NOT see Mariano on the hill in the 9th, you better believe it was the Cleveland Indians

They must have been like ... "WOW, THANKS!!"

I didn't watch the game today, I will be honest. I was buried getting stuff ready for our site maintenance tomorrow.

But the Yankees were losing in the 9th right? My point is if they are losing in the 9th I don't bring him in.

[Maxman]

Max, "the LONG HAUL" is for this frickin team to dig itself out of the ditch not add dig themselves deeper. Taking 1 step forward and 1 step back doesn't do us any good.

3rd place, Max............3rd PLACE

When Joe decided to not put in Mariano the Yankees were still in 2nd place.

2nd place, Eric.......................2nd PLACE

[Maxman]

Max, "the LONG HAUL" is for this frickin team to dig itself out of the ditch not add dig themselves deeper. Taking 1 step forward and 1 step back doesn't do us any good.

3rd place, Max............3rd PLACE

When Joe decided to not put in Mariano the Yankees were still in 2nd place.

2nd place, Eric.......................2nd PLACE

[Green Jets & Ham]

Max, "the LONG HAUL" is for this frickin team to dig itself out of the ditch not add dig themselves deeper. Taking 1 step forward and 1 step back doesn't do us any good.

3rd place, Max............3rd PLACE

I could see where Max is coming from if not for the ASB ... but IMO that ASB changes everything

And it was not about who's gonna pitch in the 10th inning ... it was about GETTING TO THE 10TH INNING

Makes no difference who's gonna pitch in the 10th if you don't get there

The priority in that spot was to keep it at ONE ... TIE THE GAME ... then go for the win

IN THAT ORDER!!

[Green Jets & Ham]

Max, "the LONG HAUL" is for this frickin team to dig itself out of the ditch not add dig themselves deeper. Taking 1 step forward and 1 step back doesn't do us any good.

3rd place, Max............3rd PLACE

I could see where Max is coming from if not for the ASB ... but IMO that ASB changes everything

And it was not about who's gonna pitch in the 10th inning ... it was about GETTING TO THE 10TH INNING

Makes no difference who's gonna pitch in the 10th if you don't get there

The priority in that spot was to keep it at ONE ... TIE THE GAME ... then go for the win

IN THAT ORDER!!

[Mavrik]

wow GJ you responded twice to your own post before anyone else did.

I'm not one to go into the whole Torre thing right now, but the yanks problem the whole season has been they haven't been able to execute the intangibles when they need to, specifically things like getting a sac fly or laying down a bunt to advance a runner. Most of the those guys with the exception of maybe Jeter, A-Rod, and maybe Cano (haven't seen enough of him to know) could lay you down a decent bunt. Maybe Torre just didn't have enough confidence in Cano to lay it down.

[Mavrik]

wow GJ you responded twice to your own post before anyone else did.

I'm not one to go into the whole Torre thing right now, but the yanks problem the whole season has been they haven't been able to execute the intangibles when they need to, specifically things like getting a sac fly or laying down a bunt to advance a runner. Most of the those guys with the exception of maybe Jeter, A-Rod, and maybe Cano (haven't seen enough of him to know) could lay you down a decent bunt. Maybe Torre just didn't have enough confidence in Cano to lay it down.

[Green Jets & Ham]

wow GJ you responded twice to your own post before anyone else did.

I'm not gonna lie ... this loss really sticks in my craw for two reasons

1. Could have been a great comeback win to send us into the break sky high

2. Very well may have happened if the 9th inning was not so terribly mismanaged

[Green Jets & Ham]

wow GJ you responded twice to your own post before anyone else did.

I'm not gonna lie ... this loss really sticks in my craw for two reasons

1. Could have been a great comeback win to send us into the break sky high

2. Very well may have happened if the 9th inning was not so terribly mismanaged

[Barton]

When Joe decided to not put in Mariano the Yankees were still in 2nd place.

2nd place, Eric.......................2nd PLACE

Baltimore had already won their game vs boston and they own the series series over us so they were actually in 2nd place and we were in 3rd when the game started. Not to mention about to fall a full half game back if we lost.

I understand what you're saying max, but daaaamn, but a harsh loss. Oh well, time to move on. 8)

[Barton]

When Joe decided to not put in Mariano the Yankees were still in 2nd place.

2nd place, Eric.......................2nd PLACE

Baltimore had already won their game vs boston and they own the series series over us so they were actually in 2nd place and we were in 3rd when the game started. Not to mention about to fall a full half game back if we lost.

I understand what you're saying max, but daaaamn, but a harsh loss. Oh well, time to move on. 8)

[Maxman]

Well lookie lookie here.

Torre didn't use Mo in a game they were losing. But he did use him to nail down a 2 inning save going into the break.

Had he pitched yesterday they would not have wanted to use him for 2 today!

Interesting. Joe does know a little bit about the game. I am surprised he hasn't won 4 Championships here!