The Sporting News re Gholston and Hardy (Combine performer or Football player?)

[will]

I saw this article first on Brian Bassett's thejetsblog.com, its very interesting and gives a more balanced perspective on Gholston and Hardy, among others ...

Draft Dish: Gholston gets mixed reviews at pro day

Posted: March 9, 2008

NFL personnel arrived at the Ohio State Pro Day excited about how DE Vernon Gholston would work out. He no doubt looks the part: very muscular and defined. Gholston impressed many when he ran his 40 on field turf instead of Ohio State's notoriously fast track, timing a 4.63 and a 4.65. Then jumped a 37-38 inch vertical; anyone who reports he jumped 42 inches has bad sources as the testing unit was slightly broken during his jump. Once on the field, though, Gholston was not nearly as impressive. He is so muscle-bound and big that he struggled to bend knees and sink hips, which hindered his ability to change directions in drills. Gholston was not the only one to work out. OT Kirk Barton ran a good 40 on the fast track (in the 4.98 range depending on the scout). However, he was not impressive in drills and did not make anyone think he is a better athlete than he showed during games.

Many were interested to see how Indiana's top two prospects performed at their pro day, and the reviews were mixed. Big WR James Hardy did not do many of the drills and refused to run a 60 shuttle as he choose to rely on what he did at the Combine, but his vertical jump was 36 inches. He had a decent workout. He was smooth and athletic running routes but double-caught most of the passes. He did not impress enough to climb into first-round territory. CB Tracy Porter ran well, timing a 4.49 and 4.51, and looked athletic and quick-footed doing drills. But he didn't knock anyone's socks off and raised concerns by displaying a lack of competitiveness that he often showed on film but had improved upon during the Senior Bowl and Combine. He did not hurt or help himself much when the day was over and did not force himself into the conversation with the top cornerbacks. Two other players that worked out were CB Leslie Majors and former QB Blake Powers, but neither impressed. Majors looked stiff in drills and consistently struggled to change directions and flip hips. Powers is so big and muscular that he lacks the flexibility needed to torque and throw the ball accurately.

One lesser known player who had a strong pro day this week was Defiance College WR Luke Dillon, who worked out at the Ohio State pro day. He was a highly productive small school receiver that caught over 90 passes in 2007 and grabbed some NFL scouts' attention. He definitely looked the part at the workout when he ran a 4.50 and 4.46 in his 40s (fast track). Dillon was smooth and fluid throughout the workout, especially running routes and catching the ball. His showing will have NFL teams taking a closer look, and he put himself in position to be a late-round consideration.

Kent State CB Jack Williams has a lot of supporters among NFL scouts, but coaches are going to have to be won over due to his lack of height (5-9). He helped himself this week, though, by showing his speed with a 4.33 in the 40 and vertical jumping 40 inches. Throughout his workout, he showed the quick feet and explosive burst out of change of directions that NFL team's covet. While his height is still going to hurt him, his workout will help him overcome that a little.

Throughout the 2007 season, New Mexico WR Marcus Smith was viewed by many as a better prospect than teammate Travis Brown, which helped Smith get invited to the Senior Bowl. They both did well at their pro day this week. Smith ran a 4.44 in the 40, but he only vertical jumped 29 inches. Though Brown did not run as fast (4.49), he vertical jumped 34 inches. They both caught the ball well and had solid workouts, but from what we heard Brown probably jumped back ahead of Smith.

Russ Lande founded GM Jr. Scouting LLC, a football scouting service that analyzes NFL draft prospects for Sporting News.

[will]

I saw this article first on Brian Bassett's thejetsblog.com, its very interesting and gives a more balanced perspective on Gholston and Hardy, among others ...

Draft Dish: Gholston gets mixed reviews at pro day

Posted: March 9, 2008

NFL personnel arrived at the Ohio State Pro Day excited about how DE Vernon Gholston would work out. He no doubt looks the part: very muscular and defined. Gholston impressed many when he ran his 40 on field turf instead of Ohio State's notoriously fast track, timing a 4.63 and a 4.65. Then jumped a 37-38 inch vertical; anyone who reports he jumped 42 inches has bad sources as the testing unit was slightly broken during his jump. Once on the field, though, Gholston was not nearly as impressive. He is so muscle-bound and big that he struggled to bend knees and sink hips, which hindered his ability to change directions in drills. Gholston was not the only one to work out. OT Kirk Barton ran a good 40 on the fast track (in the 4.98 range depending on the scout). However, he was not impressive in drills and did not make anyone think he is a better athlete than he showed during games.

Many were interested to see how Indiana's top two prospects performed at their pro day, and the reviews were mixed. Big WR James Hardy did not do many of the drills and refused to run a 60 shuttle as he choose to rely on what he did at the Combine, but his vertical jump was 36 inches. He had a decent workout. He was smooth and athletic running routes but double-caught most of the passes. He did not impress enough to climb into first-round territory. CB Tracy Porter ran well, timing a 4.49 and 4.51, and looked athletic and quick-footed doing drills. But he didn't knock anyone's socks off and raised concerns by displaying a lack of competitiveness that he often showed on film but had improved upon during the Senior Bowl and Combine. He did not hurt or help himself much when the day was over and did not force himself into the conversation with the top cornerbacks. Two other players that worked out were CB Leslie Majors and former QB Blake Powers, but neither impressed. Majors looked stiff in drills and consistently struggled to change directions and flip hips. Powers is so big and muscular that he lacks the flexibility needed to torque and throw the ball accurately.

One lesser known player who had a strong pro day this week was Defiance College WR Luke Dillon, who worked out at the Ohio State pro day. He was a highly productive small school receiver that caught over 90 passes in 2007 and grabbed some NFL scouts' attention. He definitely looked the part at the workout when he ran a 4.50 and 4.46 in his 40s (fast track). Dillon was smooth and fluid throughout the workout, especially running routes and catching the ball. His showing will have NFL teams taking a closer look, and he put himself in position to be a late-round consideration.

Kent State CB Jack Williams has a lot of supporters among NFL scouts, but coaches are going to have to be won over due to his lack of height (5-9). He helped himself this week, though, by showing his speed with a 4.33 in the 40 and vertical jumping 40 inches. Throughout his workout, he showed the quick feet and explosive burst out of change of directions that NFL team's covet. While his height is still going to hurt him, his workout will help him overcome that a little.

Throughout the 2007 season, New Mexico WR Marcus Smith was viewed by many as a better prospect than teammate Travis Brown, which helped Smith get invited to the Senior Bowl. They both did well at their pro day this week. Smith ran a 4.44 in the 40, but he only vertical jumped 29 inches. Though Brown did not run as fast (4.49), he vertical jumped 34 inches. They both caught the ball well and had solid workouts, but from what we heard Brown probably jumped back ahead of Smith.

Russ Lande founded GM Jr. Scouting LLC, a football scouting service that analyzes NFL draft prospects for Sporting News.

[KSJets]

As long as he can rush the QB and crush Tom Brady into the turf, I reall don't care if he can't cover someone. Send him blitzing on every damn play from anywhere on the line for all I care. LT used to blitz on like 90% of the plays so why not use him the same way.

[KSJets]

As long as he can rush the QB and crush Tom Brady into the turf, I reall don't care if he can't cover someone. Send him blitzing on every damn play from anywhere on the line for all I care. LT used to blitz on like 90% of the plays so why not use him the same way.

[shawn306]

Which is exactly why you take the combines for what they are worth.

I would much rather have Mangini and CO locked up in a film room go over film to find out who can play and who can't.

The lens doesn't lie. If I owned a team I would make sure that coaches used the combine as a tool and not the know all end all to NFL drafting.

[shawn306]

Which is exactly why you take the combines for what they are worth.

I would much rather have Mangini and CO locked up in a film room go over film to find out who can play and who can't.

The lens doesn't lie. If I owned a team I would make sure that coaches used the combine as a tool and not the know all end all to NFL drafting.

[RSJ]

I'm scared that Gholston is the next Brian Bosworth.

[RSJ]

I'm scared that Gholston is the next Brian Bosworth.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm scared that Gholston is the next Brian Bosworth.

Could be worse. We could be picking at #3 and the contract would be another $10M more for nothing for the same player. Right along with making a trade down almost impossible because of the ridiculous chart compensation due without a single "must have him; no one else will do" player.

If you like, I can write a couple of paragraphs rationalizing any pick after the draft.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm scared that Gholston is the next Brian Bosworth.

Could be worse. We could be picking at #3 and the contract would be another $10M more for nothing for the same player. Right along with making a trade down almost impossible because of the ridiculous chart compensation due without a single "must have him; no one else will do" player.

If you like, I can write a couple of paragraphs rationalizing any pick after the draft.

[PeterNorth09]

I'm scared that Gholston is the next Brian Bosworth.

Or Bryan Thomas or Andre Wadsworth or Courtney Brown or Calvin Pace.

Let's trade the #6 pick for Anderson or Quinn.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Or Bryan Thomas or Andre Wadsworth or Courtney Brown or Calvin Pace.

Let's trade the #6 pick for Anderson or Quinn.

The only way i would trade for anderson is if braylon edwards and kellen winslow came along with him. For some reason one of the local bars on my campus is a browns bar and i've watched many a browns game and anderson did nothing to impress me this year. He had one of the better olines to protect him and Edwards and winslow constantly bailed him out of eratic throws. I personally would rather have quinn, but i still won't trade for a QB until we see what kellen has to offer. If he doesn't perform this year, than trading for quinn next year would be a legit option considering he most likely will still be sitting behind anderson, assuming anderson doesn't lose the job.

[Arsis]

Or Bryan Thomas or Andre Wadsworth or Courtney Brown or Calvin Pace.

Let's trade the #6 pick for Anderson or Quinn.

what is with your man love for anderson and quinn? what the **** has quinn shown he can do in the nfl? Why would we give the #6 for quinn when we passed on him last year. If we wanted him that badly we could have picked him last year. We would have only had to trade up 4 spots instead of 11 to pick him too.

[CoachTsurfing]

Which is exactly why you take the combines for what they are worth.

I would much rather have Mangini and CO locked up in a film room go over film to find out who can play and who can't.

The lens doesn't lie. If I owned a team I would make sure that coaches used the combine as a tool and not the know all end all to NFL drafting.

I'm so happy more people are pointing out these work out warriors aren't football players.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I'm so happy more people are pointing out these work out warriors aren't football players.

Very true. I do feel that some articles are quite liberal with the term "workout warrior;" i generally consider a workout warrior as someone with very little production who comes out of nowhere with great measurables and little production. Both hardy and gholston have had productive college careers; so i wouldn't necessarily call them workout warriors, just solid players who increased their draft stock with a very good workout. Ie. was it chris henry last year?? some runningback outta nowhere who put on a show at the combine. Could be wrong about the name.

I've heard most people say that the combine is more for draftniks and 90%+ of the scouting done by nfl teams is all game film.

[#27TheDominator]

Very true. I do feel that some articles are quite liberal with the term "workout warrior;" i generally consider a workout warrior as someone with very little production who comes out of nowhere with great measurables and little production. Both hardy and gholston have had productive college careers; so i wouldn't necessarily call them workout warriors, just solid players who increased their draft stock with a very good workout. Ie. was it chris henry last year?? some runningback outta nowhere who put on a show at the combine. Could be wrong about the name.

I've heard most people say that the combine is more for draftniks and 90%+ of the scouting done by nfl teams is all game film.

It was Chris Henry.

I call bull**** on all the combine hate. #1, if it were only for "draftniks" why would the players be involved? Waste their time and risk injury to appease "draftniks"? Maybe it is 90% game film, but that's 10% for a couple of days.

The combine levels the playing field, so we are not watching some douche from Michigan running over some Division III midget and getting excited about his power. It also keeps us from getting caught up in pro day times which are notoriously uneven and track dependent.

Sure production is important, but there are guys with talent buried at schools like USC or used incorrectly to fit some system that get a chance to shine. Any NFL prospect that produced in college that doesn't come in ready for the combine is throwng a huge red flag that he's either a lazy ****er, not that good of an athlete or has his priorities out of whack.

[CoachTsurfing]

Very true. I do feel that some articles are quite liberal with the term "workout warrior;" i generally consider a workout warrior as someone with very little production who comes out of nowhere with great measurables and little production. Both hardy and gholston have had productive college careers; so i wouldn't necessarily call them workout warriors, just solid players who increased their draft stock with a very good workout. Ie. was it chris henry last year?? some runningback outta nowhere who put on a show at the combine. Could be wrong about the name.

I've heard most people say that the combine is more for draftniks and 90%+ of the scouting done by nfl teams is all game film.

Robertson and Thomas come to my mind as work out warriors that the jets brass fell for.

[PeterNorth09]

Robertson and Thomas come to my mind as work out warriors that the jets brass fell for.

What Gholston has going for him is that he was productive in college specifically his last season.

Same goes for DMC though DMC's production in college was off-the charts good.

[#27TheDominator]

Robertson and Thomas come to my mind as work out warriors that the jets brass fell for.

Thomas maybe, but I specifically remember numerous discussions of how DRob's ability jumped out during game tape. In fact, the butterball with bowling knives quote came from Sapp watching game film with one of the Bucs defensive coaches. You can't blame that pick on the combine.

[CoachTsurfing]

Robertson attended college at the University of Kentucky. At Kentucky he had 114 tackles, one fumble recovery, three forced fumbles and 10.5 sacks in three seasons.

As a freshman he was named Freshman All-SEC by the league's coaches.

In his junior season he had 48 tackles, five sacks for minus 40 yards, 13 QB pressures, a pass defensed and a blocked kick.

He left after his junior season to go to the NFL. Robertson was selected second team All-SEC in 2002. He was chosen by the Jets after his junior year with the 4th pick of the 2003 NFL Draft.

These stats don't add up to the 4th round pick for me. Not saying he was horrible, but clearly not a top 5 pick.

[4HCrew]

Funny John Clayton reported on ESPN that both the Jets and Dolphins held private workouts with Gholston and both walked away very impressed

[#27TheDominator]

Robertson attended college at the University of Kentucky. At Kentucky he had 114 tackles, one fumble recovery, three forced fumbles and 10.5 sacks in three seasons.

As a freshman he was named Freshman All-SEC by the league's coaches.

In his junior season he had 48 tackles, five sacks for minus 40 yards, 13 QB pressures, a pass defensed and a blocked kick.

He left after his junior season to go to the NFL. Robertson was selected second team All-SEC in 2002. He was chosen by the Jets after his junior year with the 4th pick of the 2003 NFL Draft.

These stats don't add up to the 4th round pick for me. Not saying he was horrible, but clearly not a top 5 pick.

Not 4th round. 4th overall.

They don't add up to 4th overall, but now you want to simply go by college stats? It was specifically film study where he shined. They supposedly found he was being double and triple teamed and properly handling it and that is why he shot up the boards. I'm sure his combine didn't hurt, but he was not a "combine warrior".

Warren Sapp sat in the office of Bucs assistant head coach Rod Marinelli last month and watched tapes of the latest batch of college defensive line prospects. They do it together every year.

"You've got to see this kid," Marinelli gushed to Sapp.

Sapp didn't know anything about the player about to pop up on the screen.

"He was a bowling ball," Sapp said yesterday from Orlando. "Everything was flying. He was a bowling ball with a butcher knife. Everything was cut up and killed. That's what he looked like. Helmets were flying."

They were studying six cutup tapes of Kentucky defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson.

In his unique way, the original Sapp, a future Hall of Famer, immediately gave his approval to the Jets' No. 1 pick, a player he since learned is being touted as the next Warren Sapp. "He stood out like a turd in a punch bowl," he said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2003/04/27/2003-04-27_comparison_to_pick_has_sapp_.html

In any event, there is no reason to be down on the combine because of Robertson. The player Robertson moved ahead of at the combine was Jimmy Kennedy. Know much about him? If you do you are probably cringing right now. I know any Ram fans are probably wretching.