Jetscode1 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Mangini didn't see anything wrong with going into last year with a veteran QB starting and a second year man as backup. Why should he feel differently now? The only difference would be that the identity of the backup would have changed. Another thing: If Mangini truly does like Ratliff better, it might be mandatory for him to get rid of Clemens one way or the other specifically BECAUSE Favre might retire at the end of the season. The third stringer doesn't get as many reps in practice as the second stringer, so his development gets held back. If indeed Favre does go after this year, Mangini would want the guy he believes in to get the best chance to develop. If that guy is Ratliff, then we don't need Clemens. Exactly my point...last year Chad had regular/playoff season experience and Clemens was the backup...but if Clemens is traded, Favre plays all the games this year and retires at the end of the season anyways we start next season with two QBs without game day experience...are you comfortable with this decision? As much reps as a backup (Ratliff or Ainge) may get does not prepare him as much as live game day experience. Clemens may have underwhelmed so far in his short career but at least he's had game experience. Just don't think Tangini trades him without assurances from Favre that he will return...more likely to part ways in next year's draft if Favre returns and there really is a team with interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tonytone Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 IF the jets got something for Brooks bolinger, they could get something for KC he was a 2nd round draft pick, soo the potential is there, at least im sure thats what the jets are selling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Exactly my point...last year Chad had regular/playoff season experience and Clemens was the backup...but if Clemens is traded, Favre plays all the games this year and retires at the end of the season anyways we start next season with two QBs without game day experience...are you comfortable with this decision? As much reps as a backup (Ratliff or Ainge) may get does not prepare him as much as live game day experience. Clemens may have underwhelmed so far in his short career but at least he's had game experience. Just don't think Tangini trades him without assurances from Favre that he will return...more likely to part ways in next year's draft if Favre returns and there really is a team with interest... Man the way Ratliff looks, I think he can have a very Romo like transition. Some guys just understand how to play football. It's about time we got lucky on something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Exactly my point...last year Chad had regular/playoff season experience and Clemens was the backup...but if Clemens is traded, Favre plays all the games this year and retires at the end of the season anyways we start next season with two QBs without game day experience..... I still don't see your point. Last year Clemens didn't have any NFL game experience when he started the year. If Chad had gotten hurt or had his career end for some reason, Clemens would have become our starter without any game experience at all. If Mangini truly likes Ratliff over Clemens, he should just insert Ratliff in Clemens' stead and prepare Ratliff to replace Favre next year, much as Mangini was preparing Clemens to be ready to replace Chad in a year or two. The only thing which seems to have changed between the start of 2007 and 2008 is the identity of the players-the situation remains the same. Putting Ratliff third will hold up his progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 IF the jets got something for Brooks bolinger, they could get something for KC he was a 2nd round draft pick, soo the potential is there, at least im sure thats what the jets are selling Good point, and please not leave the Vikings out of the equation when shopping QB's. Its not like they dont need a supporting back-up. Clemens could do good in a situation like that. And giving that he'll be in the NFC we wont have to see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Man the way Ratliff looks, I think he can have a very Romo like transition. Some guys just understand how to play football. It's about time we got lucky on something like that. Yessir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I still don't see your point. Last year Clemens didn't have any NFL game experience when he started the year. If Chad had gotten hurt or had his career end for some reason, Clemens would have become our starter without any game experience at all. If Mangini truly likes Ratliff over Clemens, he should just insert Ratliff in Clemens' stead and prepare Ratliff to replace Favre next year, much as Mangini was preparing Clemens to be ready to replace Chad in a year or two. The only thing which seems to have changed between the start of 2007 and 2008 is the identity of the players-the situation remains the same. Putting Ratliff third will hold up his progress. Clemens only was named the starter when we went 1-7 and the season was in the tank. Its the perfect opportunity to see if your young QB has any talent or can develop into a solid QB. The difference to me is...last year Chad was #1 entering the season. There was no questions that Chad may retire after 2007. Yes, he could get hurt or injured but the same risk applies to all team as far as injuries. For all his faults (bad decisions and panic in the pocket) Clemens is a young QB with experience (some good, some downright awful) and trading him for a late second day pick just isn't worth it just in case Favre goes down with an extended injury or does indeed retire after this year. Further, I don't think the Tangini brain trust would want to enter the 2009 season with the possibility that their #1 QB is a player (Ratliff or Ainge) who had yet to start his first NFL game. I guess they could but I just doubt it. I can agree with you on this... Ratliff clearly outplayed Clemens this preseason. I would love to see Ratliff turn into the next "Franchise QB". I just can't make the leap to turning over the starting QB position to Ratliff who has yet to start a meaningful game in the NFL. The JETS are ready to win now. At least that's my take after seeing how the FO went about building the team this off-season. The question becomes...Will Favre play more than one season? IMO the answer determines if and/or when we trade Clemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Clemens only was named the starter when we went 1-7 and the season was in the tank. Its the perfect opportunity to see if your young QB has any talent or can develop into a solid QB. The difference to me is...last year Chad was #1 entering the season. There was no questions that Chad may retire after 2007. Yes, he could get hurt or injured but the same risk applies to all team as far as injuries. For all his faults (bad decisions and panic in the pocket) Clemens is a young QB with experience (some good, some downright awful) and trading him for a late second day pick just isn't worth it just in case Favre goes down with an extended injury or does indeed retire after this year. Further, I don't think the Tangini brain trust would want to enter the 2009 season with the possibility that their #1 QB is a player (Ratliff or Ainge) who had yet to start his first NFL game. I guess they could but I just doubt it. I can agree with you on this... Ratliff clearly outplayed Clemens this preseason. I would love to see Ratliff turn into the next "Franchise QB". I just can't make the leap to turning over the starting QB position to Ratliff who has yet to start a meaningful game in the NFL. The JETS are ready to win now. At least that's my take after seeing how the FO went about building the team this off-season. The question becomes...Will Favre play more than one season? IMO the answer determines if and/or when we trade Clemens. Who says you need to have Clemens? I don't see how that has any relation to what you said. He sucks. We can just sign Patrick Ramsey again, he has game experience. Or maybe Joey Harrington. Or David Carr. Would those guys make you feel better than Ratliff? Because I think they're all better than Clemens, and I think they all suck. Keep in mind that until they came in, Romo and Brady had no actual game experience themselves. Either did Jay Cutler. Romo and Brady aren't exactly high draft choices, although Cutler was. Oh the horror, we might accidentally luck into a Romo or Brady situation, let's all sit around on JN and bitch about this possibility, and talk about how Ratliff shouldn't be given a shot at all everytime somebody says he likes him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It's gonna be funny when you guys learn in a few weeks we're shopping Ratliff for a 3rd rnd pick,keeping Clemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 For all his faults (bad decisions and panic in the pocket) Clemens is a young QB with experience (some good, some downright awful) and trading him for a late second day pick just isn't worth it just in case Favre goes down with an extended injury or does indeed retire after this year. Further, I don't think the Tangini brain trust would want to enter the 2009 season with the possibility that their #1 QB is a player (Ratliff or Ainge) who had yet to start his first NFL game. I guess they could but I just doubt it. You seem to be attaching a lot of importance to an NFL resum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 You seem to be attaching a lot of importance to an NFL resum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Okay, this will be my last time making a comment about this subject for a bit given that I know a few fellow JetNationers are kinda wanting to read something different. This is my overall feeling on this situation. Kellen Clemens has shown "so far" that he is not poised in the pocket. This in my opinion is what causes his happy feet and not so accurate passes. Its not that he cant play, its that he's not fluent in the pocket. Brat Ratliff has been able to get into a rhythm where he can show consistency and production. He's poised in the pocket. even if he isnt as good a QB as Clemens he'll always succeed as long as he's able to be able to "feel" the pocket and the bodies around him. Now, we both know Clemens can throw the football and make big time plays. But know one can argue the fact that he isnt "feeling" his sounding in almost an unconcious way. Every time that pocket begins to close clemens if you will "buckles" alittle bit. which he'll begin to think instead of fluently going with the flow of the pocket. this is where his slight happy feet comes in. The problem with that is soon after, maybe a second later he has to get that pass off. what happens is that he gets good velocity under the ball but the accuracy is off because he's not in the proper stance. This is also why the WR's cant handle the passes. With Ratliff, the reason why everyone is in awe, isnt because of his numbers, its how he dances within the pocket. Please, if anyone has these games Tivo'd just look at the way Ratliff flows within the pocket. Its almost like a boxer, you see his feet and his form remains in a passing position and he lets his bounce menuver him. This is why his passes are so accurate, but most of all him being consistent. He seems to understand what guys are open or covered on the field, in a situation like that he only has to find the open receiver, once he does then his presence in the pocket and the way he can feel the pocket mentally allows him to maintain his throwing position which in return shows that he can throw accurate, fast, SMART passes which now the D has to play honest and that allows for the run to open up even more. Look, the kids got it. We're not trying to "jump ship" on Clemens, we're just reconizing that Ratliff has something to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Rogue Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Who says you need to have Clemens? I don't see how that has any relation to what you said. He sucks. We can just sign Patrick Ramsey again, he has game experience. Or maybe Joey Harrington. Or David Carr. Would those guys make you feel better than Ratliff? Because I think they're all better than Clemens, and I think they all suck. I'm thinking Carr shouldn't be on that list. He's looking pretty good behind the Giants Oline - the first time in his NFL career he's had some security. And yeah, I wouldn't mind if he replaced Clemens. I am still very excited about Ratliff and Ainge, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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