New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[ZachEY]

Because there's a chance, however minimal, that even if Vic is a sane cop, Pac is too. In that case, if we lynch Pac tomorrow, we lose - and 'we' includes the serial.

Which means that if Vic flips sane cop, we (and again, this includes the serial) need to know Pac's role and alignment before tomorrow's lynch. The only way that happens is if the serial NKs Pac.

Ergo, if Vic is a sane cop, the serial will NK pac (unless he wants to lose)

And, since if Pac and SMC are scum and die, the serial will at worst be 1-1 with the mafia, the serial gets to happily kill anyone he wants for the rest of the game.

So why in the world would the serial NOT NK pac if vic flips sane cop?

Because, under your circumstances, he can't win. So, he'll gamble to alive one more day.

The gamble is that CTM is correct and there are only 3 scum in the game. With 4, he has 0 shot, even if he takes out 1 tonight.

[Doggin94it]

Because, under your circumstances, he can't win. So, he'll gamble to alive one more day.

The gamble is that CTM is correct and there are only 3 scum in the game. With 4, he has 0 shot, even if he takes out 1 tonight.

Bull. If there were 4 scum to start, then all the SK needs to do is have 2 scum die and survive. Especially if Pac and SMC are scum, the first part isn't that tough.

Why are you pushing our SK to act in the scums benefit rather than the town's and his own, EY

[ZachEY]

Bull. If there were 4 scum to start, then all the SK needs to do is have 2 scum die and survive. Especially if Pac and SMC are scum, the first part isn't that tough.

Why are you pushing our SK to act in the scums benefit rather than the town's and his own, EY

I'm not asking him to do anything. I'm pointing out how obvious it is that you're directing him in your best interest.

[Pac]

Pac why did you investigate SMC?

because he was perilously close to getting lynched the other day. Since he was on everyones radar (including someone I confirmed innocent) I wanted to see if those suspicions were real or not. I figured if he was indeed scum it wouldn't be difficult to get the people already wanting to lynch him to follow through. Can't do it though.. he's innocent.

[Pac]

meanwhile I spend a half hour making a case against woody and his response to me is to calm down. and he's honestly not the sk/vg/mafia. That stinks to me more than anything Vic has done the last couple days.

I don't see the harm in keeping Vic alive 1 more day and I can use tonight to check him out. If the name of a rival player comes back we lynch him and if WP turns out to be scum we either win or are down to 1 mafioso. We also know who to target since Vic would have "cleared" doggin and slats.

[Pac]

I think I like Woody as scum right now..

another thing -- I really wanted to look at Doggin but was 99% sure Vic was going to. I didn't want to waste an investigation so I chose someone who could be dangerous if mafia and not difficult to lynch since he was already almost there.

[Doggin94it]

I'm not asking him to do anything. I'm pointing out how obvious it is that you're directing him in your best interest.

Yes. Which is the towns, and (until two more scum die) the town's interest and the SKs are in alignment.

Your posts have been tremendously scummy today

[Doggin94it]

meanwhile I spend a half hour making a case against woody and his response to me is to calm down. and he's honestly not the sk/vg/mafia. That stinks to me more than anything Vic has done the last couple days.

I don't see the harm in keeping Vic alive 1 more day and I can use tonight to check him out. If the name of a rival player comes back we lynch him and if WP turns out to be scum we either win or are down to 1 mafioso. We also know who to target since Vic would have "cleared" doggin and slats.

The harm is that we don't know that you're innocent and he's guilty.

If we lynch Vic today and you're the scum, we can use that tomorrow.

If we let this fester for another day, then if we lynch the wrong one, the town loses.

And if you die in the night, come up sane townie, we'll lynch vic and if he's insane, we lose again.

There's no edge to the to the town in having you both alive on endgame, and a hell of a lot of downside

[ZachEY]

Yes. Which is the towns, and (until two more scum die) the town's interest and the SKs are in alignment.

Your posts have been tremendously scummy today

My posts are scummy? Because I'm not rushing to lynch a potential cop.

Let's imagine a hypothetical.

YOU ARE THE GODFATHER. Now that Vic has identified you as innocent (suprise, surprise), you're looking to lynch him. Then, you have the SK kill Pac, who may be innocent (which would be awful for the town). Or, you sacrifice your teammate, either at night, with the SK (who could always target you), or during the next day, making yourself out to be innocent, and a hero. You also one of the two painfully obvious SK candidates. If you miss, you know who he is, if you hit, he's gone.

You're setting up a win for scum starting with getting the town to lynch it's cop.

Sell scummy somewhere else Doggin.

[Pac]

The harm is that we don't know that you're innocent and he's guilty.

If we lynch Vic today and you're the scum, we can use that tomorrow.

If we let this fester for another day, then if we lynch the wrong one, the town loses.

And if you die in the night, come up sane townie, we'll lynch vic and if he's insane, we lose again.

There's no edge to the to the town in having you both alive on endgame, and a hell of a lot of downside

this also conveniently ensures you remain out of harms way for the duration of the game. I don't know man.. something about being your marionette gives me the willies.

[ZachEY]

*You also NK one.....

[Vicious89x]

Vic, if you really are a cop, you know that either Slats or I must be 100% innocent (I assume you'll admit that there's 0% chance all scum are investigation-immune, right?). So at the very least, you have 1 confirmed townie who's calling for your lynch (whether you think its me or Slats doesn't matter; personally, if you're sane, I'd assume we're both townies, but even if Slats is the GF, or someone thinks I am, there's at least 1 analytical townie behind this play).

Which means nobody is getting played like a fiddle (or, my personal favorite quote, "like a harp from hell"), because this isn't a mafia play.

If you're the cop, you know that Pac is scum (since, like multiple GFs on one scum team, there's roughly 0% chance that the town has two sane cops). And if Pac is scum, so is SMC (again, unless Pac is a name-hunter mafia member, which seems unlikely). So, if you're the cop, odds are your death gives us two mafia members. That's a fair trade for the town (especially with the scum already down 1) and a damn good job by you as the cop.

It's just funny that the two people I investigated are coming after me. Like I said choose between me and pac it's all good with me. I can go get lynched in this game and have my mind at ease because I know I've played a clean game. I'm innocent, just find it funny that

Slats night 1 investigation

Doggin night 2 investigation

Are tagging up legion of doom style on me.

[CTM]

Thoughts on leaving both Pac and Vic alive tonight and asking the doc to self protect?

I know there's a lot of angles, and I have my own ideas, but I want to hear what others have to say

[Doggin94it]

My posts are scummy? Because I'm not rushing to lynch a potential cop.

Let's imagine a hypothetical.

YOU ARE THE GODFATHER. Now that Vic has identified you as innocent (suprise, surprise), you're looking to lynch him. Then, you have the SK kill Pac, who may be innocent (which would be awful for the town). Or, you sacrifice your teammate, either at night, with the SK (who could always target you), or during the next day, making yourself out to be innocent, and a hero. You also one of the two painfully obvious SK candidates. If you miss, you know who he is, if you hit, he's gone.

You're setting up a win for scum starting with getting the town to lynch it's cop.

Sell scummy somewhere else Doggin.

OK, let's play this scenario out.

I'm the GF. Vic is a sane cop.

So tell me, Yellin - what does that make Pac??

He can't be a non-sane townie, since SMC confirmed Revis.

So either we have two sane townie cops, which you've agreed is highly unlikely, or Pac is my scum teammate that I'm begging the SK to off.

So, to sum up, your theory is that I'm a godfather who either knows there are two sane cops (go ahead, estimate the odds of that scenario being real), or a godfather looking to bury a scun teammate at night

Oh, and what would the town do tomorrow if Vic flips as a sane cop? Lynch Pac. And if he's innocent, lose the game.

So if I'm scum, why do I want the Serial taking out pac tonight?

Especially since if they are both sane, townie cops, I'm the obvious lynch the next day.

Every single one of your posts reads as a desperate attempt to keep Vic from being lynched (either because he's your scum teammate or because Pac is)

[ZachEY]

Because it makes you untouchable.

[Vicious89x]

OK, let's play this scenario out.

I'm the GF. Vic is a sane cop.

So tell me, Yellin - what does that make Pac??

He can't be a non-sane townie, since SMC confirmed Revis.

So either we have two sane townie cops, which you've agreed is highly unlikely, or Pac is my scum teammate that I'm begging the SK to off.

So, to sum up, your theory is that I'm a godfather who either knows there are two sane cops (go ahead, estimate the odds of that scenario being real), or a godfather looking to bury a scun teammate at night

Oh, and what would the town do tomorrow if Vic flips as a sane cop? Lynch Pac. And if he's innocent, lose the game.

So if I'm scum, why do I want the Serial taking out pac tonight?

Especially since if they are both sane, townie cops, I'm the obvious lynch the next day.

Every single one of your posts reads as a desperate attempt to keep Vic from being lynched (either because he's your scum teammate or because Pac is)

Or we can lynch JT/Woody, go to NP and considering the odds one of us has to come back with a mafia member. Hell I'm even willing to lay myself on the line and say if I don't come back with a guilty verdict, I'll tell the name of the innocent and let myself be lynched. I will not even put up a fight.

[Vicious89x]

Thoughts on leaving both Pac and Vic alive tonight and asking the doc to self protect?

I know there's a lot of angles, and I have my own ideas, but I want to hear what others have to say

That's another option that I was going to put out there, it'd look curious if we do that, I die yet pac lives through 2 NP's unprotected no?

[Vicious89x]

Off to Home Depot, buying a storage rack. If I die good game all.

[Sharrow]

Man, I wish I was still in this game. This is teh suck.

[ZachEY]

Or we can lynch JT/Woody, go to NP and considering the odds one of us has to come back with a mafia member. Hell I'm even willing to lay myself on the line and say if I don't come back with a guilty verdict, I'll tell the name of the innocent and let myself be lynched. I will not even put up a fight.

When you get a chance, I'd love to hear everything you think about JT.

[CTM]

Man, I wish I was still in this game. This is teh suck.

This is teh suck and why I hate leaving JT and Woody around till near end game. We basically have nothing on either one of them, and pretty much one of them has to be scum..

[ZachEY]

This is teh suck and why I hate leaving JT and Woody around till near end game. We basically have nothing on either one of them, and pretty much one of them has to be scum..

Yup. I don't like what's going on right now, so I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go after Vic today, unless there's no other choice.

2 votes on WP now. I want to hear what Vic thinks about JT.

I'd be willing to push one of these guys, let the doc self protect as you say, and the SK can decide if he wants to go after one of the two, or another player, or play it safe and NO KILL.

[Pac]

Thoughts on leaving both Pac and Vic alive tonight and asking the doc to self protect?

I know there's a lot of angles, and I have my own ideas, but I want to hear what others have to say

all I know is WP has vanished citing draft etc as the reason why but if you go over to JI you'll see his posts all over the place yesterday.

I'm inclined to believe he's dirty and has either gone into hiding per doggins instruction or is just hoping out of sight out of mind.

If we lynch WP and he turns out to be mafia-- great! I'll look into doggin to confirm Vics sanity. It's conceivable I'll get the name of a Jet but the name I get could go a long way in determining if he's GF... I might even get Woody Johnson.

If he's SK great... I can look still look into Doggin or Slats to confirm Vics results

If he's innocent... I can look into doggin, slats, or vic depending on the concesus and we'll still have #'s on our side. I'm starting to see the logic of multiple power roles for the town since there's been 2 NK's every night... maybe there's not a SK at all and mafia just gets to submit 2 names.

[CTM]

This **** happenned the last Bleedin game too.. We nabbed scum day 1, and then got 2 NK's every night and ran out of time before figuring out scum #2..

I swear, if there's a vig this game who isn't claiming now I will suicide you next game.. If someone is a VIG, they must claim right now.

Not knowing if there is another town power role is what's hindering us figuring out what to do with Vic/Pac and could cost us the game..

[Doggin94it]

Thoughts on leaving both Pac and Vic alive tonight and asking the doc to self protect?

I know there's a lot of angles, and I have my own ideas, but I want to hear what others have to say

I just don't think we can let Vic/Pac fester for another day.

We can't leave that call to endgame and risk making a mistake.

I think lynching Vic is self evidently the right play; the fact that the only argument against it is "maybe doggin is the GF and we have two sane cops" should confirm that if nothing else does.

If the rest of the town refuses to get behind that, there are only two players who should be lynched. (From my perspective, only 1).

Either Yellin, who has played today more overtly scummy than anyone I've seen in any game, or me, to end Yellin's absurd theorizing. And if its me, once I'm revealed as innocent, I hope you follow this advice: the SK should take out Vic tonight, so the rest of you go into tomorrow with some info. The next day, unless vic flips as a non-sane townie, lynch Yellin

And at 5-1, I'm now leaving the game with 17 min to go

[Doggin94it]

As I read it, our likely scenarios are Vic_Yellin are scummates, or Pac_SMC are scummates (and possibly Yellin with them) or neither are scum but Yellin is.

For whatever its worth, these possibilities have so completely eclipsed Norway-CTM that they are off my radar entirely.

But meh - you guys are so superstitiously afraid that I might be the godfather that you're refusing to make the obvious and best play. Wonderful. That's both excptionally frustrating and oddly gratifying.

God I cannot wait to play with the alts

[CTM]

i aint' fraid of that doggin..

I'm wondering how we could only have 1 cop and 1 doc ina 16 player with a serial killer..

I'm trying to work out if a mass claim makes sense..

[CTM]

re:above.. I'm just no sure I want to lynch just because "we can't have 2 cops in this game"

[Doggin94it]

Or we can lynch JT/Woody, go to NP and considering the odds one of us has to come back with a mafia member. Hell I'm even willing to lay myself on the line and say if I don't come back with a guilty verdict, I'll tell the name of the innocent and let myself be lynched. I will not even put up a fight.

Vic, if you're innocent and we lynch you tomorrow, we lose.

Run the damn numbers, people

[Doggin94it]

i aint' fraid of that doggin..

I'm wondering how we could only have 1 cop and 1 doc ina 16 player with a serial killer..

I'm trying to work out if a mass claim makes sense..

If the mafia has no GF or only 3 players, its not that unbalanced (though it skews anti-town, its also anti mafia and anti-serial)

I'd love a mass claim, if it will move you to lynch vic while lynching him will still do us some good, but I don't see it happening.

[Doggin94it]

re:above.. I'm just no sure I want to lynch just because "we can't have 2 cops in this game"

I am. We can't. Two sane cops would go through the game like a scythe. Its the reason the double blind cops got skewed results. There's almost no way to make that fair to the mafia.

[CTM]

If the mafia has no GF or only 3 players, its not that unbalanced (though it skews anti-town, its also anti mafia and anti-serial)

I'd love a mass claim, if it will move you to lynch vic while lynching him will still do us some good, but I don't see it happening.

Well lets see...

you've claimed roleless, pac cop, vic cop, so that leaves

1) JT

2) Woody

3) CTM

4) EY

5) Norway

6) Slats

7) SMC

To claim..

My problem here is if a player with a power role like "roleblocker" claims townie cause he's worried about getting NK'd the whole plan goes up in smoke..

[CTM]

I am. We can't. Two sane cops would go through the game like a scythe. Its the reason the double blind cops got skewed results. There's almost no way to make that fair to the mafia.

Hmm, not if they both claim and we lynch both of them, cause "there can't be two cops"

Also, 2 GF's out of 4 mafia members balance it..

[Doggin94it]

this also conveniently ensures you remain out of harms way for the duration of the game. I don't know man.. something about being your marionette gives me the willies.

Because it makes you untouchable.

That's your issue, guys?

You can lynch me today if every player agrees that, when I'm revealed as a townie, the SK will take out Vic tonight, that if he comes up as a sane cop you will lynch Pac tomorrow, and that if he's revealed as anything else you'll lynch Yellin.

Deal?

[Doggin94it]

Well lets see...

you've claimed roleless, pac cop, vic cop, so that leaves

1) JT

2) Woody

3) CTM

4) EY

5) Norway

6) Slats

7) SMC

To claim..

My problem here is if a player with a power role like "roleblocker" claims townie cause he's worried about getting NK'd the whole plan goes up in smoke..

If you are innocent, you are obviously roleless