We need playmaking DE's on this team.

[villain_the_foe]

This is the missing link. Everyone asks..."Where's our rush?" but it seems like outside of Jenkins, we cant get to the QB without sacrificing coverage by blitzing the entire front 7. This isnt good. Yes, we all, even myself have been LOVING what Rex Ryan has been bringing to the table.

Vernon Gholston is a waste of time. Do something with this guy and get him out of here!

I notice people wanting to pick on Pace and Scott tonight. If the only way for us to get to the QB is to blitz then we will not establish a sack for the rest of this season because hitting the flats for the QB and creating mis-matches is something that in week 5 and so on teams will begin to do when in 3rd and 5 situations. We need defensive ends that can get up field. and shed blocks. our DE spot is the weakest of the defense and it cost us the game tonight. Blitzing is not just sending an extra man, but it allows for the defenders to atleast have a man-on-man situation and to shed blockerrs, but the only person to consistently shed blocks is Jenkins...and most times he's sheding double teams. Its a f#cking shame what I witnessed tonight, not because its the Dolphins. Yes, they runn a gadget, bullshyt offense, but if we were good at it we'd use it too. Bottomline is the teams that can stop that type of offense is a team that has a strong front 3 or 4 depending what style of defense you run.

Was Ellis and Douglass even in this game? Yes, but they werent a factor...thats our problem. We need to seriously draft a DE in the first round

We need DE's.

Gholston, I've never been ashamed of a Jet, but dude...you're a bust dog.

[sirlancemehlot]

Gholston, I've never been ashamed of a Jet, but dude...you're a bust dog.

He occupies blockers. Please try and keep up, Villain.

[Lupz27]

This is the missing link. Everyone asks..."Where's our rush?" but it seems like outside of Jenkins, we cant get to the QB without sacrificing coverage by blitzing the entire front 7. This isnt good. Yes, we all, even myself have been LOVING what Rex Ryan has been bringing to the table.

Vernon Gholston is a waste of time. Do something with this guy and get him out of here!

I notice people wanting to pick on Pace and Scott tonight. If the only way for us to get to the QB is to blitz then we will not establish a sack for the rest of this season because hitting the flats for the QB and creating mis-matches is something that in week 5 and so on teams will begin to do when in 3rd and 5 situations. We need defensive ends that can get up field. and shed blocks. our DE spot is the weakest of the defense and it cost us the game tonight. Blitzing is not just sending an extra man, but it allows for the defenders to atleast have a man-on-man situation and to shed blockerrs, but the only person to consistently shed blocks is Jenkins...and most times he's sheding double teams. Its a f#cking shame what I witnessed tonight, not because its the Dolphins. Yes, they runn a gadget, bullshyt offense, but if we were good at it we'd use it too. Bottomline is the teams that can stop that type of offense is a team that has a strong front 3 or 4 depending what style of defense you run.

Was Ellis and Douglass even in this game? Yes, but they werent a factor...thats our problem. We need to seriously draft a DE in the first round

We need DE's.

Gholston, I've never been ashamed of a Jet, but dude...you're a bust dog.

We share the same belief I wrote the same thing in 2 separate threds just not as well written, this is the main reason we only have 4 sacks this year because our de's cant get up field and get to the qb can u imagine this d with a player like jared allen that would be sick we need to figure this thing out and figure it out this offseason.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

The OLB's should still be able to get to the QB without a blitz. The fact that we had to blitz and still couldn't get to Henne is a little disturbing. I was watching the Colts Titans game, and Freeney made Roos his bitch all day. Freeney didn't need blitzes to get to Collins, he did it all by skill.

I don't remember seeing BT or Pace even get close enough to sniff Henne's jock strap.

[Lupz27]

I know everyone is sick of trading draft picks trust me I am to but would u be opposed to sending next years 1st round pick for Peppers it would be a desperate move and prob put us in a whole for the next 2-3 years, now that I write this and think about I guess I wouldnt want to do it because of the whole rookie QB if it was the last piece to the puzzle thou I would do it in a hearbeat.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I know everyone is sick of trading draft picks trust me I am to but would u be opposed to sending next years 1st round pick for Peppers it would be a desperate move and prob put us in a whole for the next 2-3 years, now that I write this and think about I guess I wouldnt want to do it because of the whole rookie QB if it was the last piece to the puzzle thou I would do it in a hearbeat.

Peppers has never played in a 3-4 and for the price their probably asking, is it really worth it. By adding Peppers I don't think it's the same exact thing as when we added Jenkins. Jenkins doesn't have as much to learn as a DE in Rex's system.

[villain_the_foe]

He occupies blockers. Please try and keep up, Villain.

Occupying simply means that you were blocked. It also means that you didnt make the play. It also means that you're hoping that while you're occupying this block that someone else sheds their block and makes a play. Please try and keep up mr. Lance

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

Occupying simply means that you were blocked. It also means that you didnt make the play. It also means that you're hoping that while you're occupying this block that someone else sheds their block and makes a play. Please try and keep up mr. Lance

If Jenkins can take up 2 or 3 defenders, its up to the rest of the d-line to break through where a defender is lacking and pick up the slack and get to that QB!

[villain_the_foe]

We share the same belief I wrote the same thing in 2 separate threds just not as well written, this is the main reason we only have 4 sacks this year because our de's cant get up field and get to the qb can u imagine this d with a player like jared allen that would be sick we need to figure this thing out and figure it out this offseason.

Thanks, Im really hurt over this lose. And I hate that some people will say that because DE are suppose to hold their positions for LB's that all of a sudden they're not supposed to pass rush. These DE's are not applying the pressure, while Jenkins is throwing 1 and 2 guys to the side at a time. I understand that we need a stout guy to hold position for LB to make run plays, but what happens when we face the wildcat? that means that these DE's need to be able to shed blocks to disrupt in the backfield. Also, this also applys when its a passing situation. Chad Henne was 20-24 for almost 300yds....CHAD HENNE!

got to be kidding me. We send the blitz so that means to me that the DE's at most on man on man but they cant lose their blocker to get up field. Jenkins has back injuries and are making plays in the backfield. Im really REALLY pissed right now.

[villain_the_foe]

I know everyone is sick of trading draft picks trust me I am to but would u be opposed to sending next years 1st round pick for Peppers it would be a desperate move and prob put us in a whole for the next 2-3 years, now that I write this and think about I guess I wouldnt want to do it because of the whole rookie QB if it was the last piece to the puzzle thou I would do it in a hearbeat.

Not at all. We need to draft this one. Peppers is on the down end of his career, he may give us a year...maybe two, but thats it and the Panthers if getting a DE will have a possibility of getting a solid guy for 10 years.

[villain_the_foe]

If Jenkins can take up 2 or 3 defenders, its up to the rest of the d-line to break through where a defender is lacking and pick up the slack and get to that QB!

except when you're in week 5 and teams have tape and know that they have to get the ball out in 2 seconds and because we overload blitz they throw it to the mismatch or to the flats and hope for a mistackle. Luckly we have suck a strong secondary, but our front 7 needs serious DE help. we need to be able to shed some blocks especially when there's blitz help.

Not to negate your point, all im saying is this....

no matter whether ist a blitz or not, where is our DE's on passing downs? this is important. Jenkins can be accounted for IN EVERY GAME.

[sirlancemehlot]

Occupying simply means that you were blocked. It also means that you didnt make the play. It also means that you're hoping that while you're occupying this block that someone else sheds their block and makes a play. Please try and keep up mr. Lance

Oh. My bad. I though the sixth pick in the draft was supposed to be the best blocker-occupier on the team. He also should occupy a uniform and a roster position. I think Vernon Gholston has succeeded in these efforts, though as you have stated, he now is expected to see the field and make tackles. Interesting. I will re-evaluate my opinion of Vernon Gholston now. Thank you for your time, Mr. Villain.

[sirlancemehlot]

Occupying simply means that you were blocked. It also means that you didnt make the play. It also means that you're hoping that while you're occupying this block that someone else sheds their block and makes a play. Please try and keep up mr. Lance

Oh. My bad. I though the sixth pick in the draft was supposed to be the best blocker-occupier on the team. He also should occupy a uniform and a roster position. I think Vernon Gholston has succeeded in these efforts, though as you have stated, he now is expected to see the field and make tackles. Interesting. I will re-evaluate my opinion of Vernon Gholston now. Thank you for your time, Mr. Villain.

[villain_the_foe]

Oh. My bad. I though the sixth pick in the draft was supposed to be the best blocker-occupier on the team. He also should occupy a uniform and a roster position. I think Vernon Gholston has succeeded in these efforts, though as you have stated, he now is expected to see the field and make tackles. Interesting. I will re-evaluate my opinion of Vernon Gholston now. Thank you for your time, Mr. Villain.

Actually what I stated is that Gholston is a bust. And I thought that the 6th pick in the draft was supposed to be the best block shedder on the team, which would give him the priviledge to occupy a uniform and roster position. You think that Gholston has succeeded in these efforts, I say show me tape. Yeah, he'll be in on a couple plays per game, it is 11 on 11 so thats just what it is. PLEASE, show me what I missed in these last 4 games that would make it hard for Pace to not to have been welcomed back with such urgency as he was on the Defense....a position that your boy Gholston occupied by default,....not priviledge.

You're welcome Mr. Lance.

Anyway, this isnt about Gholston primarily, We need some solid DE's. Maybe we could atleast agree on that.

[neckdemon]

Actually what I stated is that Gholston is a bust. And I thought that the 6th pick in the draft was supposed to be the best block shedder on the team, which would give him the priviledge to occupy a uniform and roster position. You think that Gholston has succeeded in these efforts, I say show me tape. Yeah, he'll be in on a couple plays per game, it is 11 on 11 so thats just what it is. PLEASE, show me what I missed in these last 4 games that would make it hard for Pace to not to have been welcomed back with such urgency as he was on the Defense....a position that your boy Gholston occupied by default,....not priviledge.

You're welcome Mr. Lance.

Anyway, this isnt about Gholston primarily, We need some solid DE's. Maybe we could atleast agree on that.

i think sirlance is being sarcastic.

[villain_the_foe]

i think sirlance is being sarcastic.

Man, I thought the same thing but the way alot of these Jet fans think these days...like, "The defense is entitled a bad game after they shut down superior offenses" makes me wonder about if Lance really believes in what he's saying.

It's like we as Jet fans have fell in love with losing because thats all we know. Im getting tired of it. Getting tired of losing to teams that we should beat.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

It's like we as Jet fans have fell in love with losing because thats all we know. Im getting tired of it. Getting tired of losing to teams that we should beat.

That's just it. Everyone, including the media thought we had this wildcat's #. Well obviously that wasn't the case.

All I care about now is getting some revenge a piss poor Bills team.

[rillo]

I miss Abraham....

[villain_the_foe]

That's just it. Everyone, including the media thought we had this wildcat's #. Well obviously that wasn't the case.

All I care about now is getting some revenge a piss poor Bills team.

Well, this doesnt solely extend to the Dolphins, we should have beat a Saints team that we held defensively to 10 points, which was really 3 points because they scored that TD from another Jets offensive turnover. This isnt just about the "Wildcat". The Dolphins are not the playoffs. You want to beat up on the bills for insecurity reasons, how about the Jets get to the root of this problem. Yes, I honestly dont see the Jets winning all 16 games, but I do expect them to try to obtain that. Losing a division game like this after the Bills and Pats lose their games allows us to control our own destiny with added cushion. This is a game that could haunt us in week 17 playing the Bengals.

The Defense did not dig deep down, the only one that I can say did because you seen in on your TV screen was Jenkins. if all 11 players did that we would have stopped them, period.

[SenorGato]

[serphnx]

Meh, no matter what type of 3-4 you are running, you're expecting that pressure from an LB, usually the OLB. That's kind of how the 3-4 works, and why it went out of vogue earlier this decade. With the 4-3 you don't need to blitz to get pressure, and since pass rushing 3-4 LBs were getting harder to come by, it made sense to look for those pass rushing DLs instead.

Now I think at least a third of the league is using the 3-4, so the pendulum will either again swing or we'll sort of reach a sort of stasis.

The Jets defense has talent at every level. How much more talent do you need? You can't have pro bowlers at every position on the team. At some point you're going to have to play as a team and overcome weaknesses. The defense is still a strength, it just had a bad game. The DEs are the same as always. Jenkins is still a beast. This was Calvin Pace's first game back, once he gets back into it, and maybe if Gholston does ever develop (probably won't, but you can hope) the pass rush will be okay. You don't just shut down the Texans and Saints offense and then turn into a crap defense overnight.

[villain_the_foe]

Meh, no matter what type of 3-4 you are running, you're expecting that pressure from an LB, usually the OLB. That's kind of how the 3-4 works, and why it went out of vogue earlier this decade. With the 4-3 you don't need to blitz to get pressure, and since pass rushing 3-4 LBs were getting harder to come by, it made sense to look for those pass rushing DLs instead.

Now I think at least a third of the league is using the 3-4, so the pendulum will either again swing or we'll sort of reach a sort of stasis.

The Jets defense has talent at every level. How much more talent do you need? You can't have pro bowlers at every position on the team. At some point you're going to have to play as a team and overcome weaknesses. The defense is still a strength, it just had a bad game. The DEs are the same as always. Jenkins is still a beast. This was Calvin Pace's first game back, once he gets back into it, and maybe if Gholston does ever develop (probably won't, but you can hope) the pass rush will be okay. You don't just shut down the Texans and Saints offense and then turn into a crap defense overnight.

We need better DE's. All the extra stuff you typed was cute, I'll even agree with most of it. At the end of the day, we need some fresh DE's. You let me know what impact Ellis and Douglass have had.

[JiFtheOracle]

Apparently NY Jets fan think you need a probowler at every position. I agree that DLine is our biggest need next offseason, but folks, you're not going to get a pro bowler at every position. And reading this board makes you feel that some actually expect that type of production from every player on the field.

[neckdemon]

Apparently NY Jets fan think you need a probowler at every position. I agree that DLine is our biggest need next offseason, but folks, you're not going to get a pro bowler at every position. And reading this board makes you feel that some actually expect that type of production from every player on the field.

actually our biggest need could wind up being rb or o-line. we're gonna have to do something in free agency because we only have 2 draft picks left.

[slats]

Meh, no matter what type of 3-4 you are running, you're expecting that pressure from an LB, usually the OLB. That's kind of how the 3-4 works, and why it went out of vogue earlier this decade. With the 4-3 you don't need to blitz to get pressure, and since pass rushing 3-4 LBs were getting harder to come by, it made sense to look for those pass rushing DLs instead.

Now I think at least a third of the league is using the 3-4, so the pendulum will either again swing or we'll sort of reach a sort of stasis.

The NFL is getting bigger, and the 3-4 needs extra large front seven guys. The Jets have drafted four college DE's in the first round over the last decade and converted three of them into OLB's. When looking for DE's in this system, you're looking for college DT's who you think will have success as 3-4 ends. It's a similar problem to drafting and converting DE's into OLB's, and it reduces the size of your draft pool. These big bodies, or "planet players," as Parcells called them, are priorities every year in the draft for every team. Unless you're drafting at the top of the first round, they're tough to find.

The Jets DL is getting long in the tooth, and I'm sure they have the position as a top priority next year. They need to get younger. But this would not be all that much of an issue if Gholston was playing close to his level of expectation. Pace has a lot of rust to shake off, and the age of the DL will become less of an issue as he gets going. This is a LB driven defense.

[Vudu]

I know everyone is sick of trading draft picks trust me I am to but would u be opposed to sending next years 1st round pick for Peppers it would be a desperate move and prob put us in a whole for the next 2-3 years, now that I write this and think about I guess I wouldnt want to do it because of the whole rookie QB if it was the last piece to the puzzle thou I would do it in a hearbeat.

You really want to pay him 15 mil a year when he has never played in a 3-4? he has hinted last offseason that he wanted to be traded to a team that plays the 3-4 but still thats a huge investment. A little too rich, for my blood atleast.

[slats]

You really want to pay him 15 mil a year when he has never played in a 3-4? he has hinted last offseason that he wanted to be traded to a team that plays the 3-4 but still thats a huge investment. A little too rich, for my blood atleast.

That's right. And in a 3-4, he'd play OLB and we'd still have issues on the DL. Pass.

[SenorGato]

OLB.