Santonio Holmes says "All super bowls should be played in the south"

[bitonti]

anyone else concerned how desperate the team is to have the SB in NYC?

2014 SB means someone will buy the naming rights

Naming rights means the core free agents get signed.

i dont know what happens if no one buys the naming rights.

[Jbro22]

anyone else concerned how desperate the team is to have the SB in NYC?

2014 SB means someone will buy the naming rights

Naming rights means the core free agents get signed.

i dont know what happens if no one buys the naming rights.

How does naming rights mean the core FA's get signed?

[bitonti]

How does naming rights mean the core FA's get signed?

they can say other wise.. but with the stadium debt and 10k PSL not sold... all signs the Jets are cash poor right now.

The Jets haven't made a single move this offseason that cost em money. Everything was a cost savings.

[flgreen]

they can say other wise.. but with the stadium debt and 10k PSL not sold... all signs the Jets are cash poor right now.

The Jets haven't made a single move this offseason that cost em money. Everything was a cost savings.

They Couldn't make any moves this off season. Final 4 rules and all that

[SoFlaJets]

All I know is one of the greatest games I ever watched was The Ice Bowl between Dallas and Green Bay-this was a year before they even had a Super Bowl-it was the NFL Championship Game and the 1st game I ever saw-no wonder I'm such an NFL fan

[Jbro22]

they can say other wise.. but with the stadium debt and 10k PSL not sold... all signs the Jets are cash poor right now.

The Jets haven't made a single move this offseason that cost em money. Everything was a cost savings.

They didn't make a single move that cost them money because they weren't aloud to.

This argument would work well for the Giants.

Question to whomever can answer it;

Who has more money the Mara's or Woody?

[Biggs]

All I know is one of the greatest games I ever watched was The Ice Bowl between Dallas and Green Bay-this was a year before they even had a Super Bowl-it was the NFL Championship Game and the 1st game I ever saw-no wonder I'm such an NFL fan

Agreed probably the greatest playoff game I remeber.

On a side note what is the real upside to having the SB in NY? This is probably going to be the first summer in years where Time Square isn't over run by Europeans. The only thing I can think that's worse than that is Time Square being over run by Americans in the Winter.

[SoFlaJets]

a couple of years ago when the Colts won it down here in a torrential rainstorm-I know how bad that can be after sitting in the same for Christmas night against Miami-where was the advantage to that night having it in warm weather?

[Aten]

Who has more money the Mara's or Woody?

As phrased, might be close. Johnsons vs. Maras isn't, though.

[Sperm Edwards]

they can say other wise.. but with the stadium debt and 10k PSL not sold... all signs the Jets are cash poor right now.

The Jets haven't made a single move this offseason that cost em money. Everything was a cost savings.

This is just patently false.

Cromartie is more expensive than the 4th round draft pick we traded to get him.

Holmes is more expensive than the 5th round draft pick we traded to get him.

They tendered backups like Eric Smith, Brad Smith, and Kellen Clemens for almost $2M apiece. It would have been cheaper to let them hit free agency.

Gholston was advanced millions this year to lessen a future salary cap hit should we cut him after the season.

They have already sent a contract offer to Revis. No one knows the details but I think it's a safe bet that it includes more than the $1M the Jets would pay him this year in the absence of a new deal.

Feely was let go to enable us to sign another free agent (ended up being Taylor). It wasn't done to save money on Feely's salary.

The cost savings they made would (or should) have been made even if they sold every PSL: Faneca was not worth $8M. Jones was not worth $6M. Kerry Rhodes was not worth $5M. Lito Sheppard was not worth $10M+ (that would have kicked in a nearly $30M extension) or whatever he was due to make.

Any Jets fan who follows the team in the offseason knows all of this.

I don't care how much money anyone has. No responsible owner (or GM representing that owner) - whether he's a multi-billionaire like Johnson or not - unnecessarily overpays someone and just says "Meh - there's plenty of money in the checking account. Just overpay anyway." If the team thinks Pool (plus the extra 4th round draft pick) is an upgrade to Rhodes, then it is a good move whether or not it is less expensive.

Teams let go of overpaid players all the time. The Jets did this in a year when they were prevented from signing UFA's. But an owner is not, by definition, having cash flow problems because he doesn't pay $30M for the combo of Faneca + Jones + Rhodes + Sheppard for one season.

[Biggs]

As phrased, might be close. Johnsons vs. Maras isn't, though.

The Maras own half of the Giants. The Tisch family still owns 50%. They made a few bucks outside of football.

[bitonti]

Cromartie is more expensive than the 4th round draft pick we traded to get him.

did not get a new deal.. in fact he's making maybe a mil for the rest of the year. More than a rookie, ok but not my much and certainly not what a pro bowl usually gets.

Holmes is more expensive than the 5th round draft pick we traded to get him.

not quite true. He is getting paid the league minimum for a 5th year player. Unlike the 5th rounder, Holmes isn't getting game checks for 4 weeks of the year. He's a discount player cause he's not available. He's also 1 screw up away from indefinite suspension.

They tendered backups like Eric Smith, Brad Smith, and Kellen Clemens for almost $2M apiece. It would have been cheaper to let them hit free agency.

It would have been more expensive to give them new deals.

Clemens might not be on the roster when the 53 man is finalized.

Gholston was advanced millions this year to lessen a future salary cap hit should we cut him after the season.

yes they gave him a small bonus for the right to cut him next year. They moved guarunteed salary to guarunteed bonus, it was a cost savings.

They have already sent a contract offer to Revis. No one knows the details

exactly, lets see if he signs it.

The cost savings they made would (or should) have been made even if they sold every PSL: Faneca was not worth $8M. Jones was not worth $6M. Kerry Rhodes was not worth $5M. Lito Sheppard was not worth $10M+ (that would have kicked in a nearly $30M extension) or whatever he was due to make.

Any Jets fan who follows the team in the offseason knows all of this.

If LT gets hurt, Ducasse is a bust then maybe Faneca/Jones are worth the money. We don't really KNOW that these were good moves. We assume.

I appreciate that comment about following the team, I will try to be more like you a real fan.

If the team thinks Pool (plus the extra 4th round draft pick) is an upgrade to Rhodes, then it is a good move whether or not it is less expensive.

brodney pool is 1 hard hit away from retirement. There are many scenarios where he has a worse year than Rhodes... even with Kerry's flaws. I expect Eric Smith to play most of the snaps in 2010.

But an owner is not, by definition, having cash flow problems because he doesn't pay $30M for the combo of Faneca + Jones + Rhodes + Sheppard for one season.

ok that's probably true but until a core player gets resigned I have my doubts.

Let's be real Revis deal should have been done in Feb. Mangold should be a Jet for life. Harris too. None of these deals are really happening right now... I have to question why?

[Aten]

The Tisch family still owns 50%. They made a few bucks outside of football.

Don't I know it.

[Jbro22]

As phrased, might be close. Johnsons vs. Maras isn't, though.

That was what I was alluding too, as in the Mara's just have football money to where as Johnson has family money that runs much deeper. But, I don't know what the limitations are on that money even if the Jets were in financial trouble.

I ask, because one my Gmen fan friends scoffed at the idea that the Jets had more money for free agency than the Giants. He made a remark about how the Giants were gonna spend like the yankees in the uncapped year.

When I told him that Woody has a ton more money than the Mara's he told me that was impossible. He went on to say the Giants were a much more valuable franchise, as if that had anything to do with it. He still doesn't get it, and we still have the argument.

Pretty much the same premise as the old AFL owners being able to spend their oil money to lure stars away from the NFL owners football money and into the AFL.

[Sperm Edwards]

did not get a new deal.. in fact he's making maybe a mil for the rest of the year. More than a rookie, ok but not my much and certainly not what a pro bowl usually gets.

Cromartie makes $1.7M this year. A 4th rounder's entire contract is barely that much over 4 years.

Cromartie makes more than a 4th rounder. Therefore it is not a cost-cutting move.

not quite true. He is getting paid the league minimum for a 5th year player. Unlike the 5th rounder, Holmes isn't getting game checks for 4 weeks of the year. He's a discount player cause he's not available. He's also 1 screw up away from indefinite suspension.

Holmes makes less than I thought, but it's still twice what a 5th rounder makes. Keeping him beyond this season will cost the team still more.

The suspension comment is just beyond conspiracy theory levels. Are you suggesting the Jets acquired Santonio Holmes with the hopes that he won't just get a 4-game suspension but that he will also get suspended indefinitely? A 4 game suspension saves the Jets $160K this year. This is hardly a cost-saving move planned in advance.

Rather both Holmes and Cromartie are on 1-year tryouts (like Edwards who was also tendered for millions and who I forgot to mention). If they perform they'll get extended with big deals. While they're under contract for cheaper money, we would be foolish to lock them up before we know if we are 100% sure which ones we want long-term.

It would have been more expensive to give them new deals.

Clemens might not be on the roster when the 53 man is finalized.

It would have been cheaper to let them go and, because we can't sign enough UFA's to offset their losses, we would have gotten compensatory picks for each one of them.

Why should they give Clemens and the Smiths new deals? Maybe Brad Smith, but you don't know what his demands are. But why would they do something that foolish? To prove to you that a multi-billionaire can afford a 4 year / $5-6M contract for Eric Smith?

yes they gave him a small bonus for the right to cut him next year. They moved guarunteed salary to guarunteed bonus, it was a cost savings.

Please report to GG's classroom for after-school help with math. When you pay someone more money this year than he was otherwise going to make this year, you save money this year. Your argument was that every move this year was a cost-saving move for this year. This is the opposite of that argument.

exactly, lets see if he signs it.

Whether he signs it or not, I'd like you to explain to me how offering Revis a contract extension, one that surely averages into 8 figures per season, is a cost-saving move this year when they could have just paid him the $1M he's due this year instead (and then could have bought back the 2 following years at an average of $8-10M per year with no up-front money).

If LT gets hurt, Ducasse is a bust then maybe Faneca/Jones are worth the money. We don't really KNOW that these were good moves. We assume.

If Faneca and Jones get hurt what's the difference? Both got hurt last year. Your argument is what, that only new acquisitions are capable of getting hurt?

I appreciate that comment about following the team, I will try to be more like you a real fan.

It's important to have someone as flawless as me to try to emulate. Don't be too hard on yourself if you come up short.

brodney pool is 1 hard hit away from retirement. There are many scenarios where he has a worse year than Rhodes... even with Kerry's flaws. I expect Eric Smith to play most of the snaps in 2010.

Every player in the NFL can be 1 hard hit away from retirement. You know this.

Rhodes was also a problem for the coaching staff off the field. You cannot have people rewarded with mega-deals acting insubordinate in front of the team, have major dropoffs in their play, and continue to pay them. It is bad for team morale.

ok that's probably true but until a core player gets resigned I have my doubts.

Let's be real Revis deal should have been done in Feb. Mangold should be a Jet for life. Harris too. None of these deals are really happening right now... I have to question why?

Let's be real? Revis is locked into playing for the Jets for 3 more seasons. Locking him up in February for (likely) another 2 years beyond that, when there are no consequences for doing it later, was not the organization's #1 priority. I certainly wouldn't want to find out we missed out on trading opportunities because Tannenbaum's attention was devoted to locking up Revis 3 months earlier. You be real.

Mangold will probably get locked up. Harris I give 50/50 because they're already paying 2 other LB'ers in the $7-8M per year range. Tannenbaum would have to be the most irresponsible fool to not consider the implications of a future cap. This isn't MLB where you just pay everyone you want to keep.

No one really knows what kind of a deal to offer because no one knows what the salary cap is going to be. If the salary cap goes down 15% and you give players new contracts that are higher than the going rate would have been last year, the team will have major cap problems. Keep in mind our GM got into his current position by being a cap specialist. I truly think that's what the delay is, no joke. I think they want to see where the CBA talks are headed before making an offer they'd want to take back in August.

Hey, nothing's impossible. Woody Johnson may be cash-strapped. But I seriously doubt it. If he needed all the PSL cash now they would insist on all the PSL money up-front instead of offering PSL financing to people through the team.

[Aten]

Hey, nothing's impossible. Woody Johnson may be cash-strapped. But I seriously doubt it. If he needed all the PSL cash now they would insist on all the PSL money up-front instead of offering PSL financing to people through the team.

Two words, dude. Default swaps.

[bitonti]

Cromartie makes $1.7M this year. A 4th rounder's entire contract is barely that much over 4 years.

it's not really fair to compare Cro to a 4th rounder. Compare Cro to Lito. that's a straight swap. There's no guaruntee the 4th rounder would start. Lito will start this year, probably for the Vikings.

The suspension comment is just beyond conspiracy theory levels. Are you suggesting the Jets acquired Santonio Holmes with the hopes that he won't just get a 4-game suspension but that he will also get suspended indefinitely? A 4 game suspension saves the Jets $160K this year. This is hardly a cost-saving move planned in advance.

no im saying they pay him for 12 games not 16, that's a bargain for them. so take away the 160k he makes in the 500k range for the rest of the year? Bargain.

If they perform they'll get extended with big deals.

I doubt either are Jets next year. not for any cash reasons, just cause neither can be trusted with big money.

Please report to GG's classroom for after-school help with math. When you pay someone more money this year than he was otherwise going to make this year, you save money this year. Your argument was that every move this year was a cost-saving move for this year. This is the opposite of that argument.

Gholston's money was the rare kind: guaranteed salary. not your average run of the mill, we can cut you at anytime salary. So they gave him (less) guaranteed bonus in the short run to save more guaranteed salary over this course of his contract.

Whether he signs it or not, I'd like you to explain to me how offering Revis a contract extension, one that surely averages into 8 figures per season, is a cost-saving move this year when they could have just paid him the $1M he's due this year instead (and then could have bought back the 2 following years at an average of $8-10M per year with no up-front money).

MY whole position is that they haven't made any deals that costs em money. If revis signs then that position is null. Im still waiting. The proposal is meaningless, let's see when/if he signs. Im not convinced it's gonna happen. At least not until KFC buys the naming rights and calls it Double Down Stadium.

Every player in the NFL can be 1 hard hit away from retirement. You know this.

pool has had multiple concussions, he's late stage wayne chrebet at this point. This is more than just regular fluke injury risk, he's basically an IR waiting to happen.

Mangold will probably get locked up. Harris I give 50/50 because

Probably for a 1st team All-pro? 50/50 for Harris? These deals should be done by now.

Hey, nothing's impossible. Woody Johnson may be cash-strapped. But I seriously doubt it. If he needed all the PSL cash now they would insist on all the PSL money up-front instead of offering PSL financing to people through the team.

Im not saying Woody's broke. What I'm saying is they leveraged themselves like crazy and are probably looking at a debt in the 9 figures. hundreds of millions of dollars. It's tough to have that debt on your mind and shell out 60mil guarunteed to Revis... even though it's the obvious move. Hence the phrase "cash-poor" - again the promise of PSLs to be paid are better because they charge 8% interest and can leverage that if they really need cash in the near term.

you talk about the cap, well it's a cap-less year right now but they are operating with a budget. that's not a sign of a cash-strong operation. If they wanted to they could sign Brick, Revis, Mangold and Harris, front load the deals and the cap in 2011 isn't a problem.

bottom line let me know when someone gets a big deal from the Jets cause it's been a while. the whole operation has an "All-or-nothing" vibe for 2010.

[Sperm Edwards]

it's not really fair to compare Cro to a 4th rounder. Compare Cro to Lito. that's a straight swap. There's no guaruntee the 4th rounder would start. Lito will start this year, probably for the Vikings.

They make almost the same money this year: about $2M even.

Maybe you also think the Vikings are broke because they didn't pay Lito Sheppard over $10M this year.

And I think they even advanced him a chunk of that when he got here, so they don't have to wait for the season to start before laying out cash.

no im saying they pay him for 12 games not 16, that's a bargain for them. so take away the 160k he makes in the 500k range for the rest of the year? Bargain.

They traded a 5th round pick for him. He is more expensive than a 5th round pick. Being a bargain, which he is, does not equate it to being a cost-cutting move. I cannot imagine why you think it is.

Besides, those 4 games they're going to elevate someone else to the active roster. Even if that player makes half of Holmes's money it still cuts their 4 game savings in half. Unless you think the Jets are going to go with a 52-man roster for a month, that is.

I doubt either are Jets next year. not for any cash reasons, just cause neither can be trusted with big money.

I think they're in for one-year tryouts. Even still, I would trade a 4th for a year of someone like Cromartie and a 5th for someone like Holmes every season going forward.

Gholston's money was the rare kind: guaranteed salary. not your average run of the mill, we can cut you at anytime salary. So they gave him (less) guaranteed bonus in the short run to save more guaranteed salary over this course of his contract.

Your argument was that they were cutting cash layouts THIS YEAR. Advancing any player additional money he would not otherwise make THIS YEAR is the opposite of that.

The guaranteed money on his rookie contract is unchanged. They advanced him money to make it easier CAP-WISE to cut him before next season if he sucks again this year.

MY whole position is that they haven't made any deals that costs em money. If revis signs then that position is null. Im still waiting. The proposal is meaningless, let's see when/if he signs. Im not convinced it's gonna happen. At least not until KFC buys the naming rights and calls it Double Down Stadium.

The proposal is meaningless?

Revis is locked in for a maximum of 3 years $21M and only $6M of that needs to be paid over the next 2 seasons.

Are you suggesting you think there is even a 0.0001% chance the Jets delivered Revis a contract offer where he pockets $6M or less over the next 2 seasons?

If not, that means they are offering this player more money than they are contractually obligated to pay him.

pool has had multiple concussions, he's late stage wayne chrebet at this point. This is more than just regular fluke injury risk, he's basically an IR waiting to happen.

So I just want to be clear: you believe that cutting Rhodes was more about money than about his play and his relationship with the team.

Who else did you want them to sign? Name the player and tell how you think we should have acquired that player.

Probably for a 1st team All-pro? 50/50 for Harris? These deals should be done by now.

Harris is not a 1st team all-pro.

There may not be enough cap room to sign Revis and Mangold and Ferguson and Harris and at least one of Cromartie and Holmes and Edwards. Not with all the big contracts they've already handed out over the past 2 seasons.

Im not saying Woody's broke. What I'm saying is they leveraged themselves like crazy and are probably looking at a debt in the 9 figures. hundreds of millions of dollars. It's tough to have that debt on your mind and shell out 60mil guarunteed to Revis... even though it's the obvious move. Hence the phrase "cash-poor" - again the promise of PSLs to be paid are better because they charge 8% interest and can leverage that if they really need cash in the near term.

you talk about the cap, well it's a cap-less year right now but they are operating with a budget. that's not a sign of a cash-strong operation.If they wanted to they could sign Brick, Revis, Mangold and Harris, front load the deals and the cap in 2011 isn't a problem. Sanchez already earned an extra $10M bump in his 2011 salary so their cap space for next season will be pretty thin and require some major maneuvering without re-signing any of those 4.

bottom line let me know when someone gets a big deal from the Jets cause it's been a while. the whole operation has an "All-or-nothing" vibe for 2010.

I'm pretty sure an heir to the J&J fortune could leverage pretty much anything he wanted for cash. I have seen or heard nothing to suggest that Johnson, for all his faults, has even hinted to his GM to not sign anyone to long-term deals because there are still outstanding PSL's. This team has thrown more money at more players than anyone else. A 3-month lapse in blockbuster deals, when the Jets are prevented from acquiring UFA's, does not mean the sky is falling down.

Hell, they even looked into acquiring Brandon Marshall THIS YEAR - knowing full-well BEFORE such inquiries - that he would have needed a new contract immediately or he would be holding out.

They cannot simply front-load the bulk of a new mega-contract into an uncapped year. I don't know where you heard that they could. Everyone would be doing that otherwise. All bonuses would be roster bonuses in 2010 rather than signing bonuses whose cap hit gets spread evenly over the length of the contract. Or did you think that no GM in the NFL thought of this until you just typed it?

Did you notice a ridiculous amount of huge deals around the league compared to past seasons? It would seem every team would want to lock up their young talent long-term in an uncapped season. So why aren't 32 teams doing this? Because they don't know what the future cap will be. If it was known, there would be a lot more long-term deals signed not only with the Jets but with all of the teams.

Peyton Manning is also a free agent next year and I don't see you on a Colts message board alluding to the sky falling down there. The Colts have said it is a priority to re-sign Manning and they will do it. The Jets have said the same thing about Revis and Mangold. They will. If Mangold and Harris aren't Jets next year, and they then leave millions in cap room available at the start of the season, you can say you told me so.

Given that the team first approached Revis about an extension (per Revis's own words), and not the other way around, you are screaming "Fire" before there's even smoke appearing.