If you had $25,000 to invest....

[Dude Love]

China can't even get milk without poison in it to their babies. And Russia is a corrupt petro state.

You keep saying superfluous nonsense, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

All of your responses are bullsh*t. Who do you think you are kidding?

You never responded to this reality, Bit, and I would really like to hear your bullsh*t response so I can continue to laugh at you and further demonstrate that your ideology is diametrically apposed to facts and reality (I'm sure you will oblige):

Black poverty is higher now than pre-2008.

In fact, prior to 2008, black unemployment was actually lower than during the 90's (the decade when the economy was "doing great"), at an average of 9 percent and certainly lower than the 16.3 percent it stands at today.

http://www.bls.gov/n.../empsit.t02.htm

Black unemployment rose from 12.6 in January 2010 to 16.3 percent as of August 1 2010. An almost 30 percent increase.

http://www.timetoast...timelines/16743

Meanwhile, the boys at Goldman Sachs posted the richest quarterly profit in its 140-year history and, to the envy of its rivals, announced that it had earmarked $11.4 billion so far this year to compensate its workers.

At that rate, Goldman employees could, on average, earn roughly $770,000 each this year — or nearly what they did at the height of the boom.

http://www.nytimes.c.../15goldman.html

So bitonti, run it by me again the magic of Keynesian economics.

[Greenranger]

I know but he became such a bust, and the one time they don't go with the home town kid story, Parise lands in NJ to haunt them.

The entire 1st round made it to the NHL, except Jessiman. Bit and only bit can come up with something to disparage that draft year.

Was he a bust or too beastly for the NHL? This and the Dartmouth thing are to make you feel better about him since I don't think Bit is going to do it.

[Dude Love]

Oh, and Bit? don't respond with "do any of you know what it is like to live in a 3rd world country?" because you already used that bullsh*t and we already laughed at it.

[THE ILK]

You keep saying superfluous nonsense, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

All of your responses are bullsh*t. Who do you think you are kidding?

You never responded to this reality, Bit, and I would really like to hear your bullsh*t response so I can continue to laugh at you and further demonstrate that your ideology is diametrically apposed to facts and reality (I'm sure you will oblige):

I don't think it's bullsh*t, he really does live in a fantasy world.

Was he a bust or too beastly for the NHL? This and the Dartmouth thing are to make you feel better about him since I don't think Bit is going to do it.

No, I refuse to accept that, I must hold on to the belief that bit can come up with something, there has to be something in that candy land world of his that will make this right!

[Greenranger]

I don't think it's bullsh*t, he really does live in a fantasy world.

No, I refuse to accept that, I must hold on to the belief that bit can come up with something, there has to be something in that candy land world of his that will make this right!

Alright but just remember, Jessiman is no Vernon Gholston.

[Dude Love]

Im talking economics, let me know if you want to join me in the real world. where dollars are exchanged for goods and services.

The majority of business transactions are made in credit or derivatives markets. The transaction is made with an assumption that there is money behind the purchase and sale. But the currency--- the dollars themselves--- are never physically present. When you purchase a car, you don't show up at the dealer with a suitcase full of cash. Savings accounts work the same way. If you walk into a bank and ask to see 'your money' because you think that their is some vault where 'your money' with your name on it is, you will be laughed at.

Currency is faith based, which is why it is so important for the government to be fiscally responsible, which it is not. Right now, our government is manipulating the currency in a way that is harming the citizen, not helping. Case in point, excellent article from CNN/Money:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/28/news/economy/quantitative_easing_consumer_impact/index.htm?hpt=Sbin

Fed policy results: The dollar index has dropped 7%, while commodities -- which are priced in dollars -- have surged.

Which simply means the value of your savings/the dollar has depreciated, at the same time the costs of goods and services have increased. This was done INTENTIONALLY by our government.

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Save or spend? Either way, you are screwed.

And you know who gets screwed the worst? Lower income people because most of their disposable income is spent on mandatory purchases--- specifically food.

As the costs of food continue to rise, and the value of the dollars used to purchase food continues to decrease, the squeeze will inevitably crush them.

But hey, the boys at goldman sachs are doing great!

And sun will still come up!

[Dude Love]

lowering credit ratings of securitized debt does not create an economic collapse and the breadlines.

(I paraphrased your original statement to make it coherent)

Yes it does. The reason why you don't see breadlines today like you did in the thirties is because the government has figured out ways of removing the eyesores by creating welfare and SSI. If you take those things away from people, the breadlines would actually be much worse.

Did you know that 12% of the US population is on foodstamps?

Which brings us back to debt, US treasury bonds and the consequences of sh*tty credit ratings--- because the government borrows the money to pay for all of these entitlements, yet doesn't have the means to pay it back.

It's a ponzie scheme and it's literally no different than what Bernie Madoff did.

[bitonti]

you guys are ignoring the super-elite of this country. the 20% that controls 80% of the wealth. look up the FIRE economy... financial, insurance, real estate... everyone sends their checks in every month, where does that money go? There is no collapse or recession for the elite. There's nothing but piles of wealth... and to stop the party is bad for business.

maybe you guys are _ hoping _ for a collapse. Hope all you want, the randolph and mortimer dukes of the world will stop it from happening.

[Dude Love]

you guys are ignoring the super-elite of this country. the 20% that controls 80% of the wealth.

We're not ignoring them, just not using their experience as the yardstick by which to measure the economic pain of the average citizen.

look up the FIRE economy... financial, insurance, real estate... everyone sends their checks in every month, where does that money go?

You can't be this dense.

Gee, what happened to the financial, insurance and real estate markets October 2008? You know, the meltdown at AIG, the "bailouts" that you are always (wrongly) saying created a profit for the US taxpayer? LMAO

(Reuters) - The percentage of U.S. homeowners who owe more than their house is worth will nearly double to 48 percent in 2011 from 26 percent at the end of March, portending another blow to the housing market, Deutsche Bank said on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5745JP20090805

There is no collapse or recession for the elite. There's nothing but piles of wealth.

That's right bit. A billionaire can lose half his wealth and he still has $500 million dollars left. A gallon of milk or a gallon of gas can double and he won't bat an eye. I'm talking about the family of four in Long Island with an annual income less than $100,000 who's 401k became a 201k that you keep ignoring.

There's nothing but piles of wealth... and to stop the party is bad for business.

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. I'll just chalk it up as another one of your flippant, irrelevant points.

maybe you guys are _ hoping _ for a collapse.

Ah, there it is. When all else fails, launch an ad hominem. LMAO

Hope all you want, the randolph and mortimer dukes of the world will stop it from happening.

Sure thing, Bit. Right after they stop Lehman Brothers from sh*tting the bed.

LMAO

[bitonti]

the economy grew 2% last quarter. but hey that collapse should be around the corner...

[HessStation]

the economy grew 2% last quarter. but hey that collapse should be around the corner...

Bit,

Why do you keep coming back for more? You get shelled by dude love and then slightly change the agrument to try and fit your agenda. Seriously this could go on forever if dl had enough patience with you. The score so far is like 90 to zero. When is it enough?

[Greenranger]

you guys are ignoring the super-elite of this country. the 20% that controls 80% of the wealth. look up the FIRE economy... financial, insurance, real estate... everyone sends their checks in every month, where does that money go? There is no collapse or recession for the elite. There's nothing but piles of wealth... and to stop the party is bad for business.

maybe you guys are _ hoping _ for a collapse. Hope all you want, the randolph and mortimer dukes of the world will stop it from happening.

Now you bring movie characters into a real life discussion?

[Greenranger]

the economy grew 2% last quarter. but hey that collapse should be around the corner...

2%!!!! 2 whole %!!!!! I think I just busted a nut.

[#27TheDominator]

I think that they had to give up something, however "under the table" if you will. It was smart though, too many things were failing around that same timespan. Ford had enough overhead to continue alittle longer and then get help further down the line. And because it wasnt a "sudden" collapse they were able to go about it in a way that wasnt as alarming as the prior ones.

2 mins of talking to you you picked it up immediately. Talking with Dom for 2 days and this dude still didnt get it.

He picked it up because you explained your erroneous conspiracy theory. Your problem is you misread your article. Ford got that money from the same program as Nissan and used it for the same purpose.

The program that you are talking about was loan guarantees. The USG guaranteed loans. Ford didn't take them, but used the guarantee to get loans at a lower interest rate than they had at the time and pay down the debt. That was the money the article talked about in paying down their debt. It didn't come from the USG, though it was guaranteed. That's the shady part you are worried about, not the bloated alternative fuels program.

Ford was never close to going under. That article and many other were explicit about that.

[#27TheDominator]

I hear you, but I was comparing Chrysler to GM, when I said ownership control.

Does not the government own around 60% of GM, isn't that why they are lying about the mileage of their electro car?

I was also talking about GM when I said: How long can you keep a company that's hemorrhaging money afloat, by throwing more money away on it?

Obviously that's not the answer, and something else needs to be done.

Actually, I think that's exactly the kind of company that you take over. They have tons of money in sales, but are so bloated and mismanaged that they still can't make money. They are also so big that letting them go under would have serious repurcussions. I don't know that I'm in favor of ANY government takeovers, but if the government is going to take anything over, that's precisely the kind of company they should be taking over.

[THE ILK]

Actually, I think that's exactly the kind of company that you take over. They have tons of money in sales, but are so bloated and mismanaged that they still can't make money. They are also so big that letting them go under would have serious repurcussions. I don't know that I'm in favor of ANY government takeovers, but if the government is going to take anything over, that's precisely the kind of company they should be taking over.

Still something has to be done to make it profitable again, and I don't see this administration addressing the union problems that's causing this.

You can't just keep throwing money at a losing situation, and all of the creditors involved already got beat.

[bitonti]

Bit,

Why do you keep coming back for more? You get shelled by dude love and then slightly change the agrument to try and fit your agenda. Seriously this could go on forever if dl had enough patience with you. The score so far is like 90 to zero. When is it enough?

Im winning 100 to 0. Every day these guys predict a massive global economic collapse. It hasn't happened yet.

but don't worry when it does... hoo boy that gold will be awesome

[#27TheDominator]

Still something has to be done to make it profitable again, and I don't see this administration addressing the union problems that's causing this.

You can't just keep throwing money at a losing situation, and all of the creditors involved already got beat.

Like I said, I'm not really in favor of the government taking over failing companies. I just feel that if there ever was a case, this would be it. Even if it works it's probably a bad precedent. The one thing the USG should have going for it is the ability to force the unions into concessions.

[THE ILK]

Im winning 100 to 0. Every day these guys predict a massive global economic collapse. It hasn't happened yet.

but don't worry when it does... hoo boy that gold will be awesome

Please help me with the 2003 NHL entry draft!

PLEASE!!!

[THE ILK]

Like I said, I'm not really in favor of the government taking over failing companies. I just feel that if there ever was a case, this would be it. Even if it works it's probably a bad precedent. The one thing the USG should have going for it is the ability to force the unions into concessions.

I hear you Dom, but it does not look like they are going to force the unions into doing anything, at least not yet it don't.

This may be the case, but if it's just going to hemorrhage more money, then it's the last thing the government needs right now.

Either way I think it's setting a bad precedent.

[Greenranger]

Im winning 100 to 0. Every day these guys predict a massive global economic collapse. It hasn't happened yet.

but don't worry when it does... hoo boy that gold will be awesome

When did any of us so it was going to happen in the next few day? I've been saying next year.

[villain_the_foe]

He picked it up because you explained your erroneous conspiracy theory. Your problem is you misread your article. Ford got that money from the same program as Nissan and used it for the same purpose.

The program that you are talking about was loan guarantees. The USG guaranteed loans. Ford didn't take them, but used the guarantee to get loans at a lower interest rate than they had at the time and pay down the debt. That was the money the article talked about in paying down their debt. It didn't come from the USG, though it was guaranteed. That's the shady part you are worried about, not the bloated alternative fuels program.

Ford was never close to going under. That article and many other were explicit about that.

Ford was bailed out of their debt troubles. Even Green knows this. lol.

[Greenranger]

I don't think Ford was in anywhere near as bad of shape as GM and Chrysler were, if they were they would have taken the substantially larger bailout. As for what Ford did with the nearly 7 Billion they got, I dan't know, this is the first I've heard of any of it.

[Dude Love]

Im winning 100 to 0. Every day these guys predict a massive global economic collapse. It hasn't happened yet.

but don't worry when it does... hoo boy that gold will be awesome

Bitonti, I simply shared the data, and explained the facts, and you chose to ignore them. 17% real unemployment is bad. Half of all mortgages are underwater--- and that too, is bad. The foundation of American prosperity is girded on property values and ownership. That foundation has been kneecapped.

2% growth is a joke. It's negligible. To pull out of the recession, you need a few quarters of 6% or 7%.

As far as predicting a global economic collapse, the trajectory points in that direction. In the US, the federal reserve and the treasury department express philosophies that are diametrically opposed (one wants a strong dollar, one wants a weak dollar). One hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing.

There is a precedent of weak dollar policy:

The great German industrial combines -- Krupp, Thyssen, Farben, Stinnes -- condoned the inflation and survived it well. A cheaper Mark, they reasoned, would make German goods cheap and easy to export, and they needed the export earnings to buy raw materials abroad. Inflation kept everyone working.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitext/ess_germanhyperinflation.html

When a nation is in debt, it wants a weak dollar, simply because it would rather pay off the debt with a weak dollar, not a strong one. A weak dollar is also great for businesses who export products to other nations because those goods and services will be desirable because they are cheaper than domestic goods and services.

But what percent of our GDP is net export? That whopping 2%? NONE.

China likes the weak dollar because they have pegged their currency to ours and they are huge net exporters.

But China's ratio of outstanding credit (government and private) to annual GDP stands at 160% and could approach 200% by 2011, which would be similar to the 1991 level in Japan, just as that nation began tottering off the economic precipice. (U.S. ratio: 240%.)

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/1228/economy-ponzi-debt-peking-china-bubble.html

When Japan crashed, they didn't take the rest of the world down with them.

China and the US will.

[#27TheDominator]

Ford was bailed out of their debt troubles. Even Green knows this. lol.

Lol is right. The guy just said he'd consider Ford because they weren't bailed out.

It also helped Ford because a lot of people, myself included, refuse to buy GM or Chrysler because of the bailouts. Combine that with everyone's confidence in Toyota being shaken after the recalls earlier this year, and Ford is beginning to make a come back.

[Dude Love]

2%!!!! 2 whole %!!!!! I think I just busted a nut.

LMAO

Bit doesn't even know what GDP is.

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

That 2% is all government spending.

[THE ILK]

LMAO

Bit doesn't even know what GDP is.

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

That 2% is all government spending.

PROPAGANDA!!!

[Dude Love]

Bit,

Why do you keep coming back for more? You get shelled by dude love and then slightly change the agrument to try and fit your agenda. Seriously this could go on forever if dl had enough patience with you. The score so far is like 90 to zero. When is it enough?

If ignorance is bliss, Bitonti is in Nirvana.

[Dude Love]

PROPAGANDA!!!

The true engine of economic growth is consumer spending, which right now accounts for 0% of GDP.

LMAO

Wait until Christmas.

[HessStation]

LMAO

Bit doesn't even know what GDP is.

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

That 2% is all government spending.

Dude Love: 220

Bitoni: -45

[bitonti]

the world didn't come to an end today. but don't worry guys there's always Monday.

[Greenranger]

the world didn't come to an end today. but don't worry guys there's always Monday.

Thats all you have. That and fictional movie references. May be best to back away and think of the golden age of Keynes and Nixon.

[#27TheDominator]

the world didn't come to an end today. but don't worry guys there's always Monday.

Not here. Monday is All Saint's Day. No work for me.

[bitonti]

Thats all you have. That and fictional movie references.

hey the movies were real im not making those up!

I also had " next time ill quote documentary's for ya."

[THE ILK]

hey the movies were real im not making those up!

I also had " next time ill quote documentary's for ya."

What did they do with King Kong's body after he fell off The Empire State Building?