WrestleMafia Game Thread

[slats]

Not really. Read my response... I think its crap.

Yup. I was on 3 large trains.... string me up.

"The thing that I find interesting" is that you were also on 3 trains, but it goes unmentioned in SMC's "good investigative work." I also LOVE that now that I am listing you in my FOS, that you are OMGUS suspecting me right back...

SMC left out a lot of voting train history in this post - and by doing so, he intentionally sets the stage for dialogue around being on 3 "large" trains, a variable he has deemed scummy, without actually including all players that were on 3 large trains.

The act of doing such in and of itself was a scummy move by SMC. I'm starting to see why you would like it...

Again with the scum move by the mason?

And when am I not in the half of the game that you're FOs'ing? You confirmed my alignment last game, yet were still questioning my role after Doggin confirmed that I was roleless!

I'd rather avoid you altogether, but I'm starting to think you're likely to be scum.

[Jetscode1]

Not really. Read my response... I think its crap.

Yup. I was on 3 large trains.... string me up.

"The thing that I find interesting" is that you were also on 3 trains, but it goes unmentioned in SMC's "good investigative work." I also LOVE that now that I am listing you in my FOS, that you are OMGUS suspecting me right back...

SMC left out a lot of voting train history in this post - and by doing so, he intentionally sets the stage for dialogue around being on 3 "large" trains, a variable he has deemed scummy, without actually including all players that were on 3 large trains.

The act of doing such in and of itself was a scummy move by SMC. I'm starting to see why you would like it...

Following your logic...the next question becomes...SMC a mafia mason or SMC and Song are both scum...not sure we can make a conclusion with the available info...especially now that Song is out of pocket...but agree its a possibility...

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Well, when you're wrong you're wrong and I was on CTM. But I'm not sad he's dead

Pac I'm strongly leaning town but he's got a thick head being convinced i'm scum. I legitimately thought strongly that CTM was scum. I only voted Doggin after it became apparent that he was the only one that was going to get lynched with about an hour to deadline.

Right now the people i'm leaning strongest on scum right now are Jets Things and Aemon. Jets Things shows up and oddly chastises Jetsfan80 and then bounces before deadline again. Aemon has just had odd voting patterns and is going after Slats who I'm leaning town on.

Vote: Jets Things

[SMC]

Following your logic...the next question becomes...SMC a mafia mason or SMC and Song are both scum...not sure we can make a conclusion with the available info...especially now that Song is out of pocket...but agree its a possibility...

Presumably there are 5 scum members. Under 128's logic, 40% of the scum team risks back-to-back speed lynching to save 20% of the team. That doesn't make any sense.

I28's response is that if you're looking suspiciously at him then you must be scummy. I would say that is scummy in and of itself, but that's I28's MO good and bad.

[Integrity28]

I see where you're going...

I liked SMC's work, and fully understand him being concerned about the possibility of a Chilean Scumdercat, but using the same data I think the monkey looks a lot more opportunistic. So my "good work," to him was more about putting that info together, not his conclusion. For now. Scum.

Okay, I'll put this is geek terms for you... you are applauding SMC for an incomplete data set, that ignores the fact that you were also on 3 "large trains."

You are smarter than this... so I can only assume it serves a purpose for you to not question SMC's "data." My guess is the only reason you are applauding SMC's half-assed 'detective' work is because it serves as a vehicle for you to OMGUS case me after I just FOS'ed you. Entirely predictable.

Unvote JIF

Vote Slats

[Vicious89x]

Vicious, I have played many a mafia game with you. I also remember your brilliant maneuvering in the QT scum threads. I, too, like going after inactives, but that is one of your self professed scum moves. I'm not pulling a JVoR here. I'm just going on what I see. You and I28 are suspect. I could only chose 1 right now to vote for so I chose you.

I guess it's a compliment lol

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Following your logic...the next question becomes...SMC a mafia mason or SMC and Song are both scum...not sure we can make a conclusion with the available info...especially now that Song is out of pocket...but agree its a possibility...

I doubt that the claimed mason team is fake. Just the way it went down should tell you enough about it. There's really no reason for Song, as mafia, to put herself out there to save a dying mafia teammate. The only reason might be if SMC was something super powerful for the scum team but even then, a cop investigation would sink two people with one shot.

[slats]

Following your logic...the next question becomes...SMC a mafia mason or SMC and Song are both scum...not sure we can make a conclusion with the available info...especially now that Song is out of pocket...but agree its a possibility...

SMC was not that close to a lynch that a scummate would've come out of the woodwork to confirm his innocence as a mason team member, IMHO. They would've avoided the train or bussed him, but not stuck an additional neck out.

Of course, your first mistake was following lower primate logic.

[Integrity28]

The train that lynched Doggin has to be discounted. Is there scum on it? Almost certainly. But there were about two hours before our deadline left when I became the third vote on Doggin's train, and JiF the fourth, with the sole aim of getting a lynch before that deadline, and choosing the weakest reveal that could've been a scum power, too. It was the right play for the town at that time.

Are you saying that Song and SMC might not be a mason team, but rather are part of a scum team? Really? Or are you just throwing your poo around again?

I have not dismissed the idea that SMC and Song could be part of the scum team. Tag team wrestling and mason teams are an easy false claim to pull off... until we have a confirmation of one of them, then I'm not buying it.

Frankly, if they are a mason team - then they can talk to each other - then I would have expected more town leadership from them, specifically Song. If we are to assume they are legit, then her just hanging out in the background is weak.

[Integrity28]

Good stuff, but I explained in the initial post that I was excluding the Doggin train at the end because that was an "avoid the random lynch" vote. In that instance, townies would naturally jump on a bandwagon to avoid a random lynch.

The trains I listed were not tainted with the deadline urge.

I didn't ignore that you stated that... however, I don't think its a fair analysis to use "being on 3 large trains" as a barometer for scummy play.

In fact, I'm more intrigued by the movement of votes by Slats, JIF, and you late in D1 under the veil of "deadline surge" than any of the votes driven by early theory on D1.

[Aemon Kristen]

The problem with the shot in hindsight...if 80 doesn't shoot we had five players who make targets for NK...CTM, 80, Doggin, and the two masons...looks like we did a job for the scum team...all for the sake of keeping 80...not sure the math adds up.

Don't think I ever played a game with a miller...how does that work again? and why would anyone claim miller with no pressure?

A miller reads guilty when viewed by a finder but is really a townie. Verbal claimed Miller on Day 1 with no pressure on a game over in DM. That game is Day 5 right now and his head is on the chopping block for a completely different reason.

[slats]

Okay, I'll put this is geek terms for you... you are applauding SMC for an incomplete data set, that ignores the fact that you were also on 3 "large trains."

You are smarter than this... so I can only assume it serves a purpose for you to not question SMC's "data." My guess is the only reason you are applauding SMC's half-assed 'detective' work is because it serves as a vehicle for you to OMGUS case me after I just FOS'ed you. Entirely predictable.

Unvote JIF

Vote Slats

Much smarter. That's why I'm discounting the train that formed with two hours left before a random lynch deadline in which I was the third vote.

I came out voting Jets Things, because that's where I wanted to pressure today. Hoping that he might be able to respond during the weekend, because the weekdays seemed to be tough for him.

But yeah, I will have no problem moving my vote to you after your preemptive OMGUS vote on me. Lol!

You're looking very scummy, Dude, especially questioning SMC and Song as masons.

[SMC]

I have not dismissed the idea that SMC and Song could be part of the scum team. Tag team wrestling and mason teams are an easy false claim to pull off... until we have a confirmation of one of them, then I'm not buying it.

Frankly, if they are a mason team - then they can talk to each other - then I would have expected more town leadership from them, specifically Song. If we are to assume they are legit, then her just hanging out in the background is weak.

This argument is scummy, for the following reason:

With 17 players alive, there is presumably 5 scum members left. The scum wants the pool of potential scum to remain large, but the townies want to reduce the pool by the process of elimination to make the choice more reasonable. If we eliminate myself, Song, and possibly Jetsfan80 and even Pac, that leaves the town 13 players to look at for scum, rather than 15.

[Integrity28]

Again with the scum move by the mason?

Scummy play is scummy play. Until he is confirmed, he is a guy claiming mason. Stop acting naive about it... we just lynched a guy that claimed town too. This is bad acting...

And when am I not in the half of the game that you're FOs'ing? You confirmed my alignment last game, yet were still questioning my role after Doggin confirmed that I was roleless!

This has no bearing on this game.

I'd rather avoid you altogether, but I'm starting to think you're likely to be scum.

When do you not think I'm scum? Touché

[slats]

This argument is scummy, for the following reason:

With 17 players alive, there is presumably 5 scum members left. The scum wants the pool of potential scum to remain large, but the townies want to reduce the pool by the process of elimination to make the choice more reasonable. If we eliminate myself, Song, and possibly Jetsfan80 and even Pac, that leaves the town 13 players to look at for scum, rather than 15.

I add WE to that list as well. I believe his claim that he's the guy who was attacked by the coconut.

Scummy play is scummy play. Until he is confirmed, he is a guy claiming mason. Stop acting naive about it... we just lynched a guy that claimed town too. This is bad acting...

This has no bearing on this game.

When do you not think I'm scum? Touché

I usually don't think you're scum. I'm often critical of your style of play, and your flawed logic today would certainly fall into that category if it wasn't so smarmy.

Song coming out when she did to clear SMC would've been a very bad play by scum, for reasons SMC, JVoR, and I have already pointed out. And now you're not only linking them together, but linking them to me by having SMC scummily leaving out info that would implicate me - a train that formed with two hours left before a random lynch deadline.

[Jetscode1]

Presumably there are 5 scum members. Under 128's logic, 40% of the scum team risks back-to-back speed lynching to save 20% of the team. That doesn't make any sense.

I28's response is that if you're looking suspiciously at him then you must be scummy. I would say that is scummy in and of itself, but that's I28's MO good and bad.

Trust me...I understand i28's modus operandi...lol...just acknowledged his logic...not necessarily his conclusion.

[Integrity28]

This argument is scummy, for the following reason:

With 17 players alive, there is presumably 5 scum members left. The scum wants the pool of potential scum to remain large, but the townies want to reduce the pool by the process of elimination to make the choice more reasonable. If we eliminate myself, Song, and possibly Jetsfan80 and even Pac, that leaves the town 13 players to look at for scum, rather than 15.

I can do the math.

I said your "detective work" was scummy. I stand by that. You may not have intended it to be, lord knows I've strung together some bad "findings" in games before. That said, I'm not making the case that you are scum, but I am not going to act like I entirely believe you either. I don't entirely believe any claim until it is confirmed.

The most questionable thing about your claim at the moment is that you are alive... I mean, CTM hinted at being the bomb, the bomb is a relatively town-screwing role. Scum NK'ed him, instead of a member of the mason team? Instead of War Ensemble? Maybe scum wanted town asking this very question so your claim would be second guessed... dunno.

That to me

[Jetscode1]

I doubt that the claimed mason team is fake. Just the way it went down should tell you enough about it. There's really no reason for Song, as mafia, to put herself out there to save a dying mafia teammate. The only reason might be if SMC was something super powerful for the scum team but even then, a cop investigation would sink two people with one shot.

I listed two possibilities...one the mason team was faked...least likely...or a mafia mason...where one mason is mafia but the other is town...not saying that is likely at this point either...just that its a possibility.

[Jetscode1]

SMC was not that close to a lynch that a scummate would've come out of the woodwork to confirm his innocence as a mason team member, IMHO. They would've avoided the train or bussed him, but not stuck an additional neck out.

Of course, your first mistake was following lower primate logic.

I've played with you long enough for you to know...I generally do not follow lower primate logic...lol...but occassionally he makes interesting observations.

[Integrity28]

Following your logic...the next question becomes...SMC a mafia mason or SMC and Song are both scum...not sure we can make a conclusion with the available info...especially now that Song is out of pocket...but agree its a possibility...

I don't know that there is a conclusion yet... as I stated above to SMC, him and Song not being NK'ed creates reason to second guess their claim. Which is what scum wants if they are legit.

I'll say it again. I don't like the investigative work he put out there - as a claimed mason, he knows people are likely to follow his lead - as some will trust his claim more than others. So why put short-sighted data out there that ignores the glaring points I illustrated in my post with the slats, jif, smc votes all coming back to back to back on the Brett and Doggin trains? Lots of people on 3 large trains, not just me, Pac and Vic.

So he made a post that puts myself, Vic and Pac in the crosshairs. For what? Changing votes a lot? Pac and I have a history of doing just that especially on D1. That said, all my votes in question were on people I had cased pretty thoroughly throughout D1 up to the point in question.

I disagree with the logic that the deadline surge should be discounted from SMC's scum hunt... because frankly, at that point the hysteria would allow scum to do something like vote back to back. JIF and Slats both didn't seem to care which of Brett and Doggin died... 2 good ******* townie players.

Also... Didn't realize Song was out of pocket. Nevermind comments about her not asserting herself as a town leader in the claimed mason role.

[Jetscode1]

A miller reads guilty when viewed by a finder but is really a townie. Verbal claimed Miller on Day 1 with no pressure on a game over in DM. That game is Day 5 right now and his head is on the chopping block for a completely different reason.

I must not get the value...on D1 he claimed he was Miller? so, basically he states any investigation of him would come up "not town" before there ever was an investigation...I do not see the value...Doggin's reveal was early but don't think it was that bad...especially since the +1 lynch requirement ability has been used before in games here and IMO it has a strong town advantage in the late game. Definitely, would have preferred to force the scum to NK rather than us to do their job.

[SMC]

I disagree with the logic that the deadline surge should be discounted from SMC's scum hunt... because frankly, at that point the hysteria would allow scum to do something like vote back to back. JIF and Slats both didn't seem to care which of Brett and Doggin died... 2 good ******* townie players.

Or the hysteria would lead scum to put a late vote without suspicion?

Final Vote Count

war ensemble (1) - Song

Jetsfan80 (2) - Vicious, Aemon

Song (1) - Sharrow

Doggin (11) - Dan, Jetsfan80, slats, JiF, SMC, Crusher, AVM, CTM, JVOR, I28, Jetscode

JVOR (1) - Pac

Not Voting: war ensemble, Jets Things, doggin,

With 19 players remaining, it takes 10 to lynch.

Funny, you're pointing out Slats & JiF who were early voters on Doggin, but you were a late voter on Doggin as you were on me, which put me at L-2.

[Integrity28]

I add WE to that list as well. I believe his claim that he's the guy who was attacked by the coconut.

I usually don't think you're scum. I'm often critical of your style of play, and your flawed logic today would certainly fall into that category if it wasn't so smarmy.

Song coming out when she did to clear SMC would've been a very bad play by scum, for reasons SMC, JVoR, and I have already pointed out. And now you're not only linking them together, but linking them to me by having SMC scummily leaving out info that would implicate me - a train that formed with two hours left before a random lynch deadline.

Slats, my initial protest of SMC's data was to make the point it was short sighted... any other conjecture I have offered has been done to support my reasons for protesting his incomplete data set in the first place.

I don't think I'm making any profound accusations, or jumping to any conclusions. I'm simply saying why are we ignoring these other details that were not part of the initial data set? And look at what those details could mean...

Like I said, SMC's post may not have meant to be scummy - but it crossed me that way.

The way you are trying to leverage his FOS of me into your own case on me is the real gem in all this.

[slats]

Scummy play is scummy play. Until he is confirmed, he is a guy claiming mason. Stop acting naive about it... we just lynched a guy that claimed town too. This is bad acting...

Bad acting? How about a bad script?

How many people do we lynch in these games that claim to be scum?

I'd like to hear how Aemon feels about your play, being that he's voting for me, too.

I still want to put the pressure on Jets Things today, maybe he can give an opinion on your leaps of logic, too.

[SMC]

Screw it ...

UNVOTE: Vicious

VOTE: I28

Like I said, both jumped out at me, but 128 protests too much. And, claims my vote analysis was too short sighted and should have included the Doggin final vote, but guess what? I28 is closed to hammering Doggin with his vote. How does that help his argument against Slats and JiF while exonerate him?

[Integrity28]

Or the hysteria would lead scum to put a late vote without suspicion?

Funny, you're pointing out Slats & JiF who were early voters on Doggin, but you were a late voter on Doggin as you were on me, which put me at L-2.

Yeah, I point to them as being early voters on Doggin... because they both seemed eager to kill Doggin or Brett, they didn't care which one. That, to me, is scummier than me voting Doggin reluctantly with 45 minutes until deadline. Remember, I was the one saying Doggin's lynch didn't make sense for the town, and that there would be no way to conclusively "catch" the double voter as JIF insinuated. My vote on Doggin was deadline driven, as I felt his role was expendable compared to the threat of a random lynch.

I only got to your train late because I as fixating on War Ensemble. I didn't know what to make of all your babble about the scum QT thread, honestly... but you seemed to want to die, so I was happy to oblige because I didn't think you were playing a very pro-town game at the time.

I feel good about both those votes. I feel like you are normally one of the first people to question the type of play we've seen from slats and jif... surprised frankly that you are resorting to "you voted late" and "you were on 3 trains" against me.

[Integrity28]

Screw it ...

UNVOTE: Vicious

VOTE: I28

Like I said, both jumped out at me, but 128 protests too much. And, claims my vote analysis was too short sighted and should have included the Doggin final vote, but guess what? I28 is closed to hammering Doggin with his vote. How does that help his argument against Slats and JiF while exonerate him?

I am shocked at how shallow your insight is here... you are a smart, analytical player. Yet here you are resorting to I28 was on "3 trains" and "voted late."

JIF has played a scummy game. Re-read my case vs. him. He didn't care if we lynched Brett or Doggin at the end of D1, he defended terribly against my case on him. He spent all of D1 pushing "either/or" theories that simply were not as black and white as he insisted.

Slats has played a scummy game. Look at the way he ended D1. FOS'ing CTM for telling JF80 to fire, then telling JF80 to fire himself. Again, Slats didn't seem to care whether or not it was Brett or Doggin that died.

Slats, JIF, SMC with back-to-back-t-back votes on Brett and then Doggin at the end of D1... and that was all left out of SMC's brilliant detective work. Now this? SMC and Slats trying to take me out... after I FOS Slats and Jif.

I guess all I can say is lynch me. I think you guys are scum, and if not playing some of the worst games I've seen from the 3 of you.

[Integrity28]

Bad acting? How about a bad script?

How many people do we lynch in these games that claim to be scum?

I'd like to hear how Aemon feels about your play, being that he's voting for me, too.

I still want to put the pressure on Jets Things today, maybe he can give an opinion on your leaps of logic, too.

Dummy.

You are proving the point I'm making... that we can't just believe every claim that gets put in front of us.

[AVM]

For those who remember (maybe just Crusher can answer this?)...in Star Wars, Crusher had the same role, right? Would he have taken someone out if NK'd? Or only lynched? Just so we get an idea of what we're up against (RB or not, and if they used a RB/NK combo)

On to the suspects:

Jetscode & Jets Things: I lump them together because it's difficult to really bring a TON out of either of their plays thus far. Admittedly, I'm slightly less worried about JC. I can't decide how his posting "wait, isn't this a lynch?" makes me feel, though I tend to feel like he'd be drawing too much attention to himself as town with doing that. There are ALWAYS a couple low-activity scum, though that doesn't mean one of these two are one.

Vic: I'd be lying if I said something didn't seem odd, but other than our tag-team, 80, and Pac (who's off the wall this game), I don't really feel good about anyone. I guess I should say I feel good about Dan and Vic rather, but that I always do, and I really suck at getting a read off them. Vic is extremely good as scum, and I can't count how many times I've read him say when he's scum, he keeps everything together much better, and I've just been on the same page as him the entire game. For the past couple days I've wanted to keep an eye on Vic, but he's done nothing so far that makes me think DEFINITELY SCUM! However, the only time I've ever been right about Vic was Star Wars, and that was by sheer luck and because it was him vs. me.

Dan: Like I said, I'm not really good at reading Dan either. I did learn through Star Wars that she likes to stay away from the bigger trains as scum (at least she did that game). We were really strategic in the Oz game as well.

JVoR: Hasn't voted for me all game. Obviously scum

And lastly, I28 & JiF: He always looks scummy. Always. It helps him when he's town because if he survives the first push, he can usually last deep into a game. As scum, well he's I28...he always plays that way.

With that said, I want to hear from JT. You said yourself my suspicion couldn't be based off all you've contributed thus far...so give me something to go off of. Vote: JETS THINGS

[Aemon Kristen]

Bad acting? How about a bad script?

How many people do we lynch in these games that claim to be scum?

I'd like to hear how Aemon feels about your play, being that he's voting for me, too.

I still want to put the pressure on Jets Things today, maybe he can give an opinion on your leaps of logic, too.

regarding I28, I have seen and been Mafia Mason before, so calling a scummy play on someone that has claimed Mason doesn't ring any bells with me as one member of the team has no way to know the alignment of the other. When I was going aftter Doggin for his claim, I28 called me down for it and it turns out he was right to do so. He's not voting the scummy play, just calling it what it is. I'm still good with my vote on you, Slats.

[Aemon Kristen]

I must not get the value...on D1 he claimed he was Miller? so, basically he states any investigation of him would come up "not town" before there ever was an investigation...I do not see the value...Doggin's reveal was early but don't think it was that bad...especially since the +1 lynch requirement ability has been used before in games here and IMO it has a strong town advantage in the late game. Definitely, would have preferred to force the scum to NK rather than us to do their job.

Claiming Miller with no pressure made people think it possible he was telling the truth and forestalled any cop investigation because he already said he would show guilty. I wanted to lynch him then, the same as I wanted to lynch Doggin (i seriously thought that had to be a scum ability even though you guys have had town version before), but everyone else seemed to buy into it. Still not sure if Verbal was bluffing. I think he's getting strung up soon.

[Integrity28]

Presumably there are 5 scum members. Under 128's logic, 40% of the scum team risks back-to-back speed lynching to save 20% of the team. That doesn't make any sense.

I28's response is that if you're looking suspiciously at him then you must be scummy. I would say that is scummy in and of itself, but that's I28's MO good and bad.

First of all, I never said you were scummy because you suspected me. I said the act of casing 3 players on a incomplete set of data can be perceived as scummy. I don't care that I was in that group of 3, what i care about is that you are a claimed mason and leading the town and you purposefully left out information while drawing up a case... and now I can't even get you to listen to any of the points I've made about JIF's play or Slat's play all game long.

You want to drag MO's into this... you are an analytical player, probably to a fault at times, yet here you are making a case on me based on me voting on 3 different trains. This is a terribly weak case, if you ask me, and when I see sh*t like this I try to look at what agenda it might serve.

Just above your initial post with the limited data, I placed my vote on JIF and FOS'ed Slats and JVOR, noting specifically the votes JIF and Slats placed on Doggin at the end of D1. The two of them didn't care, clearly, whether we lynched Brett or Doggin... and that is lost on you and your data because you felt the late train that illustrates my point was impermissible evidence of some sort.

If you ask me, you deriving any case out of voting patterns is terribly weak when you define a context like "large trains" and then shave off half of them as well as the rarionale of what was going on for each individual you were casing at the time the votes were made.

When I voted you I got to your train late, because I was leading the charge on WE. Plain and simple. You didn't see fit to consider this as analytical as you are though?

When I voted for Doggin in the lynch, I did so reluctantly and inside of 45 minutes until deadline. Nevermind the fact that I'd spent the better part of the day defending him for all intents and purposes.

As analytical as you are, all you could come away from your study of vote trains with was that 3 people voted on 3 large trains, but only the ones you felt served your purpose of highlighting - nevermind the others. You didn't look into the rationale's that were given with each vote or anything... like I said elsewhere, this has been an uncharacteristically shallow case for you.

Still can't believe it escapes you that Slats and JIF didn't give 2 sh*ts whether it was Doggin or Brett that got lynched, and yet you'd rather just vote for people that vote on 3 trains that are to your liking.

Yup, I'm the one playing a scummy game alright...

Trust me...I understand i28's modus operandi...lol...just acknowledged his logic...not necessarily his conclusion.

I'm not just about "poo flinging." My struggle is always tempering my instinctive read on things with a logical read on it. I'm trying to do that now... and coming away from it with serious doubts about SMC, who is typically one to put together very "smart" cases.

The way he has cased me, does not fit that description at all.

[Jetscode1]

Claiming Miller with no pressure made people think it possible he was telling the truth and forestalled any cop investigation because he already said he would show guilty. I wanted to lynch him then, the same as I wanted to lynch Doggin (i seriously thought that had to be a scum ability even though you guys have had town version before), but everyone else seemed to buy into it. Still not sure if Verbal was bluffing. I think he's getting strung up soon.

Didn't think a miller saw himself as a miller...but never seen the role in a game...just reading the wiki.

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Miller

[Integrity28]

And lastly, I28 & JiF: He always looks scummy. Always. It helps him when he's town because if he survives the first push, he can usually last deep into a game. As scum, well he's I28...he always plays that way.

You offered your thoughts on me here, which is fine, but why mention JIF and not comment on his play... I've put a lot of time into questioning his play, there is plenty to respond to.

Thoughts?

[slats]

When I voted you I got to your train late, because I was leading the charge on WE. Plain and simple. You didn't see fit to consider this as analytical as you are though?

When I voted for Doggin in the lynch, I did so reluctantly and inside of 45 minutes until deadline. Nevermind the fact that I'd spent the better part of the day defending him for all intents and purposes.

As analytical as you are, all you could come away from your study of vote trains with was that 3 people voted on 3 large trains, but only the ones you felt served your purpose of highlighting - nevermind the others. You didn't look into the rationale's that were given with each vote or anything... like I said elsewhere, this has been an uncharacteristically shallow case for you.

Still can't believe it escapes you that Slats and JIF didn't give 2 sh*ts whether it was Doggin or Brett that got lynched, and yet you'd rather just vote for people that vote on 3 trains that are to your liking.

Yup, I'm the one playing a scummy game alright...

So your "reluctant" vote with 45 minutes left is a town play, my third vote in his train with two hours left is a scummy play? I was clear for a while that I didn't entirely trust Doggin's reveal to be a town power, and that if it was it wasn't a strong town power. What were you proposing at the time as an alternative to your reluctant vote? Running up a new train with two hours to go?

Brett is the guy I thought was scum on D1. I was wrong. It happens. But I was consistent about that throughout the day. Just as I'm sure that you were wrong (or just placing a scum vote) about WE. Who I've also been consistent about believing since he claimed to've been the daytime victim.

I was on the "long train" for SMC, but I was the second vote right after Pac in an effort to get him to speak up a little more. You think his play is scummy after he has Song coming out and (pretty much, AFAIC) clearing him, but my second vote on him D1 is scummy because people piled on afterwards making it a long train?

You are playing a scummy game in which you're accusing me and JiF of playing scummy for doing the same things you're doing - except that you're doing them more often. You're a late vote on a number of long trains.

And once again, I'd prefer to ignore you, but you make that impossible. I wanted to hear from JT today/this weekend. That's why I haven't moved my vote yet.