*EDIT: BREAKING* OchoCinco to New England.

[JiFtheOracle]

I doubt it. Palmer is horribly overrated because of his draft stock, but its not like hes a total piece of garbage out on the field either. He did put up almost 4000 yards this past season. OchoCinco accounted for only 831 of them. The last three years have all been big dropoffs from his peak and hes become a possession type receiver, which is not really his game. You cant count on him for 16 games anymore and hes at an age where expecting a rebound isnt going to happen. Even when he was really good he was kind of wacky in that he would go out and have 4 or 5 ridiculous games a year and be invisible in some other games. He doesnt have it in him anymore to have all those ridiculous games to pad the stats. In the last three years hes been about as productive on the field as Edwards, who is 5 years younger and has played with far worse players at QB and thats not even debatable.

Sounds very similar to the conversations we had when they traded for Randy Moss.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here, OchoCinco will have a monster year in that system. The guy has been dying to get out of there for years now, he finally gets it, and his opportunity is with the Pats and Tom Brady. The kind of shape the guy keeps himself in, with a new change on a real team with an all time great QB...I think you are totally underestimating the impact that will have in NE as he's instantly their best WR.

We'll find out.

[Matt39]

What would slightly concern me as a Pats fan is Brady's apparent disinterest in the playoff game followed by an incredibly bizarre offseason....he looks like a fat Nick Carter.

[madmikeisback]

Johnson made the pro bowl in 2009. 1047 yards and 9 TDs.

His career TD high for 1 season is 10. Hardly a shell.

His YPC is down way below the lowest of his career. I know as a fan of cheating scum you have the tow the party line but lets be real. Your coaches personnel skills are a hilarious myth.

[madmikeisback]

Sounds very similar to the conversations we had when they traded for Randy Moss.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here, OchoCinco will have a monster year in that system. The guy has been dying to get out of there for years now, he finally gets it, and his opportunity is with the Pats and Tom Brady. The kind of shape the guy keeps himself in, with a new change on a real team with an all time great QB...I think you are totally underestimating the impact that will have in NE as he's instantly their best WR.

We'll find out.

Except that Randy Moss is 10x the player this clown is.

[madmikeisback]

Haynesworth can.

I love that the cheating scum are relying on the biggest dirtbag in the NFL to save their plumitting team. This year is gonna be AWESOME.

[JiFtheOracle]

Except that Randy Moss is 10x the player this clown is.

Absolutely, but Chad is no slouch.

Hey, its pure speculation we're talking about here. My thoughts are, if Tom Brady can make Wes Welker and Deon Branch, 2 complete and utter JAG's look like pro-bowl WR, whats he going to do with a not to long removed elite WR?

[madmikeisback]

Absolutely, but Chad is no slouch.

Hey, its pure speculation we're talking about here. My thoughts are, if Tom Brady can make Wes Welker and Deon Branch, 2 complete and utter JAG's look like pro-bowl WR, whats he going to do with a not to long removed elite WR?

Welker's career is completely based on Moss on the other side of him and no one fears branch whatsoever.

[shawn306]

This is going to be interesting to see how the biggest mouth in the NFL works with the team that quote/unquote says nothing.

We may very well see not the OchoCinco that was the shell of the the player that used to be Chad Johnson. Or he may very well thrive alot like Branch did when he came back after some pretty awful years in Seattle.

[JiFtheOracle]

Welker's career is completely based on Moss on the other side of him and no one fears branch whatsoever.

You're preaching to the choir...I've been agruing that since they traded for the bum.

Chad is much much better than both of those JAGS.

[madmikeisback]

You're preaching to the choir...I've been agruing that since they traded for the bum.

Chad is much much better than both of those JAGS.

Not at this point. He's old and slow.

[JiFtheOracle]

Not at this point. He's old and slow.

He's really not though...we'll see. I gave my opinion...there's no point in arguing about speculation.

BTW - I hope I'm 100% wrong.

[RutgersJetFan]

Haynesworth can.

I think his teammates from DC would disagree with that.

[Vicious89x]

You're preaching to the choir...I've been agruing that since they traded for the bum.

Chad is much much better than both of those JAGS.

I agree as well

[Vicious89x]

I think his teammates from DC would disagree with that.

[slats]

Absolutely, but Chad is no slouch.

Hey, its pure speculation we're talking about here. My thoughts are, if Tom Brady can make Wes Welker and Deon Branch, 2 complete and utter JAG's look like pro-bowl WR, whats he going to do with a not to long removed elite WR?

I really don't think Chad was ever elite. I think he was very good for a while on a team that lived solely by the pass. Now he's a 33 year old who's definitely in decline. A 40 year old TO joined him last year and promtly moved him to the back seat. I agree with Jason that he'll like winning, and he'll like being a part of whatever being on the Patriots means, but he'll ultimately be unhappy with the way he's used and lose interest during games.

I think in the Pats system, he'll be a JAG who might see 40 catches all year. If that. Welker will continue to be the #1 WR over there, and Brady will push 5000 yards passing by spreading it around pretty evenly to 5 or 6 other guys not names Welker. Ocho's gonna be humbled this year. A #3 WR who's probably behind a TE or two in catches.

[Barcs]

This is very un-patriot like. Usually they avoid drama queen / disciplinary issue guys, but here they signed 2 of them within a few days. Is Bill Bellachick finally loosening up that rod that's been lodged in his behind for all these years? Maybe Rex Ryan has convinced him to take chances and not be a puss.

And why is everyone still calling him Ochocinco? He changed his name back to Johnson.

[JiFtheOracle]

I really don't think Chad was ever elite. I think he was very good for a while on a team that lived solely by the pass. Now he's a 33 year old who's definitely in decline. A 40 year old TO joined him last year and promtly moved him to the back seat. I agree with Jason that he'll like winning, and he'll like being a part of whatever being on the Patriots means, but he'll ultimately be unhappy with the way he's used and lose interest during games.

I think in the Pats system, he'll be a JAG who might see 40 catches all year. If that. Welker will continue to be the #1 WR over there, and Brady will push 5000 yards passing by spreading it around pretty evenly to 5 or 6 other guys not names Welker. Ocho's gonna be humbled this year. A #3 WR who's probably behind a TE or two in catches.

Right, the guy has never had less than 40 catches in his career playing with the likes of John Kitna, Ryan Fitzpatrick and overrated Carson Palmer in the AFCN and he's going to have less matched up with an all time great in a pass first system?

Okay.

And Chad was a top 5-10 WR in this league for a very long time. I'm not sure what you think is elite...but Averaging 1000+ yards, around 90 catches and 10 TD's a year for 6 straight season, is elite.

Also, where did you get that Cinci was a pass happy offense? They've always been a balanced attack...witht he likes of Cory Dillon, Rudy Johnson and Ced Benson.

I swear peoples memories get jogged when the Pats are involved in anything that improves their team.

[slats]

Right, the guy has never had less than 40 catches in his career playing with the likes of John Kitna, Ryan Fitzpatrick and overrated Carson Palmer in the AFCN and he's going to have less matched up with an all time great in a pass first system?

Okay.

And Chad was a top 5-10 WR in this league for a very long time. I'm not sure what you think is elite...but Averaging 1000+ yards, around 90 catches and 10 TD's a year for 6 straight season, is elite.

Also, where did you get that Cinci was a pass happy offense? They've always been a balanced attack...witht he likes of Cory Dillon, Rudy Johnson and Ced Benson.

I swear peoples memories get jogged when the Pats are involved in anything that improves their team.

Has nothing to do with the Pats improving themselves, it's just that I think Ocho has been overrated for his entire career, and that he's clearly on the downswing at this point in time.

I was quick to say I thought the Haynesworth move was impressive. Ocho? Not so much.

40 catches this year. 500 yards. 4 TD's. Something like that.

[JiFtheOracle]

Has nothing to do with the Pats improving themselves, it's just that I think Ocho has been overrated for his entire career, and that he's clearly on the downswing at this point in time.

I was quick to say I thought the Haynesworth move was impressive. Ocho? Not so much.

40 catches this year. 500 yards. 4 TD's. Something like that.

His numbers would say different...but whatever. Again, I'm not going to argue about speculation...but I think he'll have a monster year.

[jason423]

Sounds very similar to the conversations we had when they traded for Randy Moss.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here, OchoCinco will have a monster year in that system. The guy has been dying to get out of there for years now, he finally gets it, and his opportunity is with the Pats and Tom Brady. The kind of shape the guy keeps himself in, with a new change on a real team with an all time great QB...I think you are totally underestimating the impact that will have in NE as he's instantly their best WR.

We'll find out.

There are big differences though. Their bodies are at a very different stage when the moves were made. Both were considered malcontents but Moss stopped suiting up to play. Johnson never had the dog label attached to him. When the Jets were rumored to be interested in Moss (who is worse at this stage than Ocho Cinco, IMO) I tried to look into Moss's stats relative to the teams he played on and was actually surprised to see that the Raiders years, when he played, werent awful. As overall numbers they were low, but the quality around him was so bad that a smart GM looking deeper into it (and the Pats were the only ones who I think that did this) could say if you put this guy on a good offense he is going to put up huge numbers again.

In Moss' last three years with Minnesota he accounted for 27% of the receptions, 31% of the yards, 45% of the receiving TDs, and a YPC 21% better than the average of his team. Alot of that was based on the 2002 and 2003 years as the injury in 2004 slowed him down and he was never the same player after that year, even with NE. In Oakland he was 20%, 25%, 39%, 36% for the games he played in. That's not the drastic decline everyone saw by looking at the total stats he put up there. His NE numbers were 22%, 28%, 47%, 41%. Better team, better coaching to use him vertically, but not much different of a contribution.

Johnsons seen a similar drop in his numbers as Moss did the last three years, except Tds. He went from 26%, 35%, and 28% to 23%, 27%, and 33%. Those declines are not related to the team getting better or worse that he played for. Its almost all on the player. The more alarming number is YPC went from 52% higher than his teammates to only 31% higher, with last year being only 20% higher. Based on that production he would probably top off at slightly over 1000 yards in NEs offense assuming he got number 1 looks (hard to imagine with Welker and Branch there), played 16 games, and showed no more decline this season. This would be the only year Id expect them to get something from him at all.

[JiFtheOracle]

There are big differences though. Their bodies are at a very different stage when the moves were made. Both were considered malcontents but Moss stopped suiting up to play. Johnson never had the dog label attached to him. When the Jets were rumored to be interested in Moss (who is worse at this stage than Ocho Cinco, IMO) I tried to look into Moss's stats relative to the teams he played on and was actually surprised to see that the Raiders years, when he played, werent awful. As overall numbers they were low, but the quality around him was so bad that a smart GM looking deeper into it (and the Pats were the only ones who I think that did this) could say if you put this guy on a good offense he is going to put up huge numbers again.

In Moss' last three years with Minnesota he accounted for 27% of the receptions, 31% of the yards, 45% of the receiving TDs, and a YPC 21% better than the average of his team. Alot of that was based on the 2002 and 2003 years as the injury in 2004 slowed him down and he was never the same player after that year, even with NE. In Oakland he was 20%, 25%, 39%, 36% for the games he played in. That's not the drastic decline everyone saw by looking at the total stats he put up there. His NE numbers were 22%, 28%, 47%, 41%. Better team, better coaching to use him vertically, but not much different of a contribution.

Johnsons seen a similar drop in his numbers as Moss did the last three years, except Tds. He went from 26%, 35%, and 28% to 23%, 27%, and 33%. Those declines are not related to the team getting better or worse that he played for. Its almost all on the player. The more alarming number is YPC went from 52% higher than his teammates to only 31% higher, with last year being only 20% higher. Based on that production he would probably top off at slightly over 1000 yards in NEs offense assuming he got number 1 looks (hard to imagine with Welker and Branch there), played 16 games, and showed no more decline this season. This would be the only year Id expect them to get something from him at all.

Interesting...good research. Moss is clearly a better player, so I'm not completely shocked at what you just provided...but I do think Chad's drop off has more to do with Carson sucking then him decling. I know Carson still almost threw for 4k this season but he almost attempted 600 passes.