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PatriotReign37

Woody - Jets fans should be patient.

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? what do you mean i thought it mad it clear. He applied for GM jobs throughout the NFL and was the presumed front runner but the people in the NFL said he sh*t the bed during the interview. It was his to lose and hes lost it

 

saying he put niners together more then idzik in seattle is also laughable. Gamble was there when they sucked and the 49ers didnt turn around until they got a new GM whom i give all the credit of rebuilding the 49ers to

 

edit: if he really was the mastermind behind the 49ers rebuilding the 49ers didnt seem to care when they let him go to the eagles for a lateral move.

 

   You could say the same thing about Idzik.  So he gets no blame for having 5 losing seasons and all the credit for 1 winning season.   Ok.

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My point was and is that I think Woody is a clueless doofus.  My initital post was about Woody, not Gamble.  Gamble was just one of the many reasons why I dislike Woody.  Convenient of you to cherry pick one point and focus solely on that, and in the process miss the forest for the trees.

 

One of the few good moves Woody has made as an owner may have been hiring and listening to the head hunting firm that recommended Idzik.  Idzik may prove to be a great GM for the Jets.   I hope he will, and so far I'm happy with the job that he's done, but I'm not sold yet.  Gamble may have blown the interview and may in actuality not have been the best choice, but at the time the Jets were looking, he was VERY highly respected and thought of, at least with the information we fans had access to.  You're looking at it in hindsight.

 

Please don't tell me that you're one of those posters where anyone who disagrees with you and isn't happy with something is "whining."  I've seen enough chowderheads like that on Jets sites to last 2 lifetimes, so if that's representative of who you really are, feel free to skip the rest of my posts.

 

It's not exactly "cherry picking" when the entire topic of the post I responded to was Gamble.  Feel free to go back and reread your own post if you need, but it's true.  Beyond that, you've really just proven my whole point.  Yes, of course hindsight is going to come into play when you're still trying to criticize someone for something that happened months ago, especially when the evidence suggests you were wrong about it at the time.  Sure, we're all wrong about plenty around here, no big deal, but at that point you need to let it go, not continue to harp on it and get pissy when people disagree with your already disproven premise.  The issue isn't your initial beliefs, it's that you're still trying to criticize Woody and tell off other posters on the basis of something you're wrong about.

 

It seems that the bottom line is you don't want to give credit to Woody for anything, to the point that you feel the need to come up with excuses to even criticize him for a decision that you admittedly have no reason to be unhappy about.  I'm sure you have plenty of other reasons you hate Woody, and they might all be great reasons, but that doesn't change that this one has little (if any) merit to it.  When that happens, yeah, you're going to come across as whiny.  You don't help your cause by telling people off who point out flaws in your argument and then preaching on about how other people should post.  It's a message board after all, and you clearly have no problem giving other people crap for their opinions, so don't be surprised when you get it in return.

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The BG school of debate..  regularly claim your opponent has "proved your point" whether they have or haven't.  That and 4 more paragraphs.

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The BG school of debate..  regularly claim your opponent has "proved your point" whether they have or haven't.  That and 4 more paragraphs.

 

Hey, it's not my fault posters around here regularly contradict themselves. :P

 

And that one was only two paragraphs, so HA!  In your face!  Thanks for proving my point (??).

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Jet fans should be patient. Even if you're pleased as pie about everything Idzik has done so far, the moves he's made are still largely very conservative. He shored up the defense and the running game, but it's still a passing league, and the Jets are still deficient in that department. People are optimistic about Geno, but he went #39 overall (with a few QB needy teams passing on him twice) for a reason. The Jets receivers and TEs are a below average group (being generous here) until someone proves otherwise. The Jets still don't have a clear plan about the future of the coaching staff, and we could see a disconnect between Rex's short term goals, and Idzik's long term goals this year.

Next year is when the full rebuild takes place. Rex proves himself, or he's gone. Sanchez probably doesn't have that much of a chance. The team will have as many as five extra draft picks and as much as $50M in cap space. That's when the team will get built. This year was a little foundation work in preparation for the coming overhaul, that's all.

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   You could say the same thing about Idzik.  So he gets no blame for having 5 losing seasons and all the credit for 1 winning season.   Ok.

 

nope. But seahawks > 49ers before they both turned reall good.

 

49ers obviouslly didnt think gamble was anything special so they let him leave for a laterral move. NFL teams obviouslly didnt think gamble was good because most teams had him fall from the front runner for GM to not even a finalist. Couple all that with the fact that a former GM told me gamble wouldnt be a good GM and was awful during the interviewing process I say Idzik>Gamble

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It's not exactly "cherry picking" when the entire topic of the post I responded to was Gamble.  Feel free to go back and reread your own post if you need, but it's true.  Beyond that, you've really just proven my whole point.  Yes, of course hindsight is going to come into play when you're still trying to criticize someone for something that happened months ago, especially when the evidence suggests you were wrong about it at the time.  Sure, we're all wrong about plenty around here, no big deal, but at that point you need to let it go, not continue to harp on it and get pissy when people disagree with your already disproven premise.  The issue isn't your initial beliefs, it's that you're still trying to criticize Woody and tell off other posters on the basis of something you're wrong about.

 

It seems that the bottom line is you don't want to give credit to Woody for anything, to the point that you feel the need to come up with excuses to even criticize him for a decision that you admittedly have no reason to be unhappy about.  I'm sure you have plenty of other reasons you hate Woody, and they might all be great reasons, but that doesn't change that this one has little (if any) merit to it.  When that happens, yeah, you're going to come across as whiny.  You don't help your cause by telling people off who point out flaws in your argument and then preaching on about how other people should post.  It's a message board after all, and you clearly have no problem giving other people crap for their opinions, so don't be surprised when you get it in return.

 

I consider it cherry picking when my original post was about why I don't like Woody, and you single out one of those reasons and harp on it and not only fail to mention the others, but until your latest response, make it seem like I have no right to dislike Woody.  In retrospect, it looks like I may have been wrong about Gamble.  If so, that's fine, I've certainly been wrong before and will be again.  Even if I was wrong about Gamble, it still doesn't mean that ultimately Idzik was the best or right hire for the Jets.  Time will tell.

 

For the record, I'm willing to give Woody credit for anything good he does, it's just that I've seen very little good that he's actually done.  He's willing to spend money on players for the team.  I'll give him that.  My major problem with him has been that he's been too arrogant or stupid to realize how little he knows about the game, and rather than hiring a sound football man to run the franchise, he has hired marketing men and accountants and made one bad move after another.  He has also seemed to care more about selling PSLs than putting a winning team on the field, and doesn't seem to get it that fielding a winning team WILL put fannies in the seats.  I have no need to come up with reasons not to like him.  He provides enough of those on his own.

 

One thing that I give him credit for is hiring the head hunting firm for the GM search and for listening to them.  If Idzik continues to pan out and make good moves, then I'll give him credit for that, but as I said, imo the jury is still out on that.   

 

Gamble wasn't the only candidate I liked for the Jets' GM job.   Yes, now it appears that Gamble might not have been a great GM candidate, but we don't know for sure.  Just because a lot of teams didn't hire him really doesn't mean anything.  Every year NFL teams hire retread coaches and GMs who have sucked everywhere they've been, and ignore some candidates who turn out to be very, very good and successful once they get a chance.  They bring in mediocre players and expect them to turn things around for them.  They miss on players in the draft.  The truth is, we'll never know for certain how things might have panned out if one of those other candidates were hired.

 

If I got "pissy" it was because of the tone of your response to me.  I felt it insulting and demeaning, so I responded in kind.  I would much rather keep things more civil and on a higher level, but don't take crap from anyone.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, even strongly, about "opinions" if you don't make it personal.  You made it personal and insulting by accusing me of "whining."  Disagree with my opinion all you want and give the reasons why, but if you come at me personally, I'm likely to come right back at you, even though I try not to resort to that kind of pettiness. Accusing another man of whining is pretty low and doesn't encourage civil discourse.  

Edited by JoeKlecko

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Jet fans should be patient. Even if you're pleased as pie about everything Idzik has done so far, the moves he's made are still largely very conservative. He shored up the defense and the running game, but it's still a passing league, and the Jets are still deficient in that department. People are optimistic about Geno, but he went #39 overall (with a few QB needy teams passing on him twice) for a reason. The Jets receivers and TEs are a below average group (being generous here) until someone proves otherwise. The Jets still don't have a clear plan about the future of the coaching staff, and we could see a disconnect between Rex's short term goals, and Idzik's long term goals this year.

Next year is when the full rebuild takes place. Rex proves himself, or he's gone. Sanchez probably doesn't have that much of a chance. The team will have as many as five extra draft picks and as much as $50M in cap space. That's when the team will get built. This year was a little foundation work in preparation for the coming overhaul, that's all.

 

Excellent post, slats.  I agree. 

 

Idzik could prove to handle the draft and personnel adeptly, but falter in his CS hires.  I think that the decision he makes regarding Rex, whether he stays or goes, and if he goes, who he hires, will determine how long he keeps his job and whether he is an excellent GM, a mediocre one, or somewhere in between.

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I consider it cherry picking when my original post was about why I don't like Woody, and you single out one of those reasons and harp on it and not only fail to mention the others, but until your latest response, make it seem like I have no right to dislike Woody.  In retrospect, it looks like I may have been wrong about Gamble.  If so, that's fine, I've certainly been wrong before and will be again.  Even if I was wrong about Gamble, it still doesn't mean that ultimately Idzik was the best or right hire for the Jets.  Time will tell.

 

For the record, I'm willing to give Woody credit for anything good he does, it's just that I've seen very little good that he's actually done.  He's willing to spend money on players for the team.  I'll give him that.  My major problem with him has been that he's been too arrogant or stupid to realize how little he knows about the game, and rather than hiring a sound football man to run the franchise, he has hired marketing men and accountants and made one bad move after another.  He has also seemed to care more about selling PSLs than putting a winning team on the field, and doesn't seem to get it that fielding a winning team WILL put fannies in the seats.  I have no need to come up with reasons not to like him.  He provides enough of those on his own.

 

One thing that I give him credit for is hiring the head hunting firm for the GM search and for listening to them.  If Idzik continues to pan out and make good moves, then I'll give him credit for that, but as I said, imo the jury is still out on that.   

 

Gamble wasn't the only candidate I liked for the Jets' GM job.   Yes, now it appears that Gamble might not have been a great GM candidate, but we don't know for sure.  Just because a lot of teams didn't hire him really doesn't mean anything.  Every year NFL teams hire retread coaches and GMs who have sucked everywhere they've been, and ignore some candidates who turn out to be very, very good and successful once they get a chance.  They bring in mediocre players and expect them to turn things around for them.  They miss on players in the draft.  The truth is, we'll never know for certain how things might have panned out if one of those other candidates were hired.

 

If I got "pissy" it was because of the tone of your response to me.  I felt it insulting and demeaning, so I responded in kind.  I would much rather keep things more civil and on a higher level, but don't take crap from anyone.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, even strongly, about "opinions" if you don't make it personal.  You made it personal and insulting by accusing me of "whining."  Disagree with my opinion all you want and give the reasons why, but if you come at me personally, I'm likely to come right back at you, even though I try not to resort to that kind of pettiness. Accusing another man of whining is pretty low and doesn't encourage civil discourse.  

 

Holy BG's nephew, Batman. 

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I consider it cherry picking when my original post was about why I don't like Woody, and you single out one of those reasons and harp on it and not only fail to mention the others, but until your latest response, make it seem like I have no right to dislike Woody.  In retrospect, it looks like I may have been wrong about Gamble.  If so, that's fine, I've certainly been wrong before and will be again.  Even if I was wrong about Gamble, it still doesn't mean that ultimately Idzik was the best or right hire for the Jets.  Time will tell.

 

For the record, I'm willing to give Woody credit for anything good he does, it's just that I've seen very little good that he's actually done.  He's willing to spend money on players for the team.  I'll give him that.  My major problem with him has been that he's been too arrogant or stupid to realize how little he knows about the game, and rather than hiring a sound football man to run the franchise, he has hired marketing men and accountants and made one bad move after another.  He has also seemed to care more about selling PSLs than putting a winning team on the field, and doesn't seem to get it that fielding a winning team WILL put fannies in the seats.  I have no need to come up with reasons not to like him.  He provides enough of those on his own.

 

One thing that I give him credit for is hiring the head hunting firm for the GM search and for listening to them.  If Idzik continues to pan out and make good moves, then I'll give him credit for that, but as I said, imo the jury is still out on that.   

 

Gamble wasn't the only candidate I liked for the Jets' GM job.   Yes, now it appears that Gamble might not have been a great GM candidate, but we don't know for sure.  Just because a lot of teams didn't hire him really doesn't mean anything.  Every year NFL teams hire retread coaches and GMs who have sucked everywhere they've been, and ignore some candidates who turn out to be very, very good and successful once they get a chance.  They bring in mediocre players and expect them to turn things around for them.  They miss on players in the draft.  The truth is, we'll never know for certain how things might have panned out if one of those other candidates were hired.

 

If I got "pissy" it was because of the tone of your response to me.  I felt it insulting and demeaning, so I responded in kind.  I would much rather keep things more civil and on a higher level, but don't take crap from anyone.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, even strongly, about "opinions" if you don't make it personal.  You made it personal and insulting by accusing me of "whining."  Disagree with my opinion all you want and give the reasons why, but if you come at me personally, I'm likely to come right back at you, even though I try not to resort to that kind of pettiness. Accusing another man of whining is pretty low and doesn't encourage civil discourse.  

 

When I chimed into this conversation you had been posting about Gamble for multiple posts in a row.  You had shifted the focus of your argument to the Jets' GM search and the only name you mentioned was Gamble.  That's what jumped off the page at me and that is why it's what I responded to.  I wasn't going to go back to figure out what else you were saying however many pages prior to that.  Even if you were saying other things I'd agree with, that wouldn't change that I still disagreed with the entire premise of your GM search argument.

 

Beyond that, sorry that I struck such a nerve, but what I saw was you already telling people off before I made a single post directed towards you in this thread.  Don't get me wrong, it happens to all of us at times, but if you're catching an attitude with people for disagreeing with you, know that you're going to catch crap for it in return.  Welcome to the world of message boards (especially JN).

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When I chimed into this conversation you had been posting about Gamble for multiple posts in a row.  You had shifted the focus of your argument to the Jets' GM search and the only name you mentioned was Gamble.  That's what jumped off the page at me and that is why it's what I responded to.  I wasn't going to go back to figure out what else you were saying however many pages prior to that.  Even if you were saying other things I'd agree with, that wouldn't change that I still disagreed with the entire premise of your GM search argument.

 

Beyond that, sorry that I struck such a nerve, but what I saw was you already telling people off before I made a single post directed towards you in this thread.  Don't get me wrong, it happens to all of us at times, but if you're catching an attitude with people for disagreeing with you, know that you're going to catch crap for it in return.  Welcome to the world of message boards (especially JN).

 

Fair enough.  I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.  I DO have a problem with people who feel like they have to make it personal in order to try to disagree.  Rarely have I seen minds changed on Jets boards (and I've been posting on them since the late 90's).  Thus, I never try to change anyone's mind.  I'm an opinionated old fart and have been watching NFL games since 1963, so I have some confidence in my knowledge and stand up for my position, but I do my best to never make it personal.  Even when someone is rude to me first, I try to ignore it and stick to the facts, but sometimes I fail.

 

The only two things that really gets under my skin on Jets boards is when someone tries to twist my words and misrepresent what I said and when someone tries to squelch discussion because they don't like a thread.  Too often times boards of this type dissolve into pissing matches, and egos get in the way.  We all are passionate Jets fans, or we wouldn't be here.  We all have ideas of what we think are the best steps for the team to take in order to win a SB, and who those players should be.  I think that no one would post if we all agreed.  It would be boring.  One thing I know for certain, is that there are always contrasting viewpoints and different "readings" of what is said and how it was said, and someone always has something to say about it for better or worse. LOL

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Jet fans should be patient. Even if you're pleased as pie about everything Idzik has done so far, the moves he's made are still largely very conservative. He shored up the defense and the running game, but it's still a passing league, and the Jets are still deficient in that department. People are optimistic about Geno, but he went #39 overall (with a few QB needy teams passing on him twice) for a reason. The Jets receivers and TEs are a below average group (being generous here) until someone proves otherwise. The Jets still don't have a clear plan about the future of the coaching staff, and we could see a disconnect between Rex's short term goals, and Idzik's long term goals this year.

Next year is when the full rebuild takes place. Rex proves himself, or he's gone. Sanchez probably doesn't have that much of a chance. The team will have as many as five extra draft picks and as much as $50M in cap space. That's when the team will get built. This year was a little foundation work in preparation for the coming overhaul, that's all.

 

 This is all a hope at this point.   The draft picks might be good, they might be cut after next year.  Who knows.  We hope they wind up pro bowl players.   The running game?  Greene had more experience and yards then the guys they have on this team.   Just because people hope some backup to backups in the NFL & college will be a beast doesn't mean the guy will ever be a legit starting RB.    We all hope Ivory winds up being the next Turner.   But he could be the next guy who gets cut or just never plays.    

 

  Next year is an unknown.  If the draft picks are good, then next years draft picks are a definitely chance to become even better.  If the draft picks suck,  there is no guarantee they'll be any better next year.     And the free agents,  if any of these guys wind up with career seasons, they might be gone after a season or just had that one great year.    Landry was a great pickup, except he's long gone now.  What was the point of a one year guy?  That's not building for the future.  And that is another worry with a lot of these signings.  Especially if the team winds up 5-11 or something.

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Fair enough.  I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.  I DO have a problem with people who feel like they have to make it personal in order to try to disagree.  Rarely have I seen minds changed on Jets boards (and I've been posting on them since the late 90's).  Thus, I never try to change anyone's mind.  I'm an opinionated old fart and have been watching NFL games since 1963, so I have some confidence in my knowledge and stand up for my position, but I do my best to never make it personal.  Even when someone is rude to me first, I try to ignore it and stick to the facts, but sometimes I fail.

 

The only two things that really gets under my skin on Jets boards is when someone tries to twist my words and misrepresent what I said and when someone tries to squelch discussion because they don't like a thread.  Too often times boards of this type dissolve into pissing matches, and egos get in the way.  We all are passionate Jets fans, or we wouldn't be here.  We all have ideas of what we think are the best steps for the team to take in order to win a SB, and who those players should be.  I think that no one would post if we all agreed.  It would be boring.  One thing I know for certain, is that there are always contrasting viewpoints and different "readings" of what is said and how it was said, and someone always has something to say about it for better or worse. LOL

 

I hear you man and I'm right there with you on those things.  Let's be honest, we Jets fans are a very, um... interesting group.  If nothing else, we're all quite passionate and yes, you certainly nailed it in that try as we might, none of us are ever going to convince each other of anything.  If nothing else, at least we all get to wallow in the misery of this team together.

 

It's all good.

 

Don't mind me, I wasn't being serious, just making a joke at my own expense.  One of the few things I can do when posting that won't piss other people off. :tongue:

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 This is all a hope at this point.   The draft picks might be good, they might be cut after next year.  Who knows.  We hope they wind up pro bowl players.   The running game?  Greene had more experience and yards then the guys they have on this team.   Just because people hope some backup to backups in the NFL & college will be a beast doesn't mean the guy will ever be a legit starting RB.    We all hope Ivory winds up being the next Turner.   But he could be the next guy who gets cut or just never plays.    

 

  Next year is an unknown.  If the draft picks are good, then next years draft picks are a definitely chance to become even better.  If the draft picks suck,  there is no guarantee they'll be any better next year.     And the free agents,  if any of these guys wind up with career seasons, they might be gone after a season or just had that one great year.    Landry was a great pickup, except he's long gone now.  What was the point of a one year guy?  That's not building for the future.  And that is another worry with a lot of these signings.  Especially if the team winds up 5-11 or something.

I don't even understand the point of this post. Who's suggesting anything is guaranteed next year? And what does it have to do with having a little patience this year?

It's not "hope" that the Jets will have 10+ draft picks next year, or that they'll have an abundance of cap space. And it's no secret that the Jets had a salary cap problem this year, and still have a couple albatross contracts that need to be shed. They just hired a new GM who I hope knows what he's doing with those picks and that money. That doesn't alter the fact that fans should be patient this year, because the roster still kinda sucks and the resources just weren't there to make the necessary improvements.

Next year, those resources will be available. That's not hope, that's a fact. That's the point of a lot of these one year signings. They didn't have the money to offer better players longer term deals, and the one year deals will lead to cap room next season and can potentially lead to comp picks in 2015. This is a foundation year. A lot of demolition is still going on. The structure really starts to get built -for better or worse- next season.

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Jet fans should be patient. Even if you're pleased as pie about everything Idzik has done so far, the moves he's made are still largely very conservative. He shored up the defense and the running game, but it's still a passing league, and the Jets are still deficient in that department. People are optimistic about Geno, but he went #39 overall (with a few QB needy teams passing on him twice) for a reason. The Jets receivers and TEs are a below average group (being generous here) until someone proves otherwise. The Jets still don't have a clear plan about the future of the coaching staff, and we could see a disconnect between Rex's short term goals, and Idzik's long term goals this year.

Next year is when the full rebuild takes place. Rex proves himself, or he's gone. Sanchez probably doesn't have that much of a chance. The team will have as many as five extra draft picks and as much as $50M in cap space. That's when the team will get built. This year was a little foundation work in preparation for the coming overhaul, that's all.

After the Tannenbaum Era, this team could use a little conservative. I like that Idzik seems impervious to outside pressure, and just does his job. Though certainly not the first round picks I wanted, I think in three years we'll be pretty pleased with having the players he drafted on this roster.

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I hear you man and I'm right there with you on those things.  Let's be honest, we Jets fans are a very, um... interesting group.  If nothing else, we're all quite passionate and yes, you certainly nailed it in that try as we might, none of us are ever going to convince each other of anything.  If nothing else, at least we all get to wallow in the misery of this team together.

 

 

Don't mind me, I wasn't being serious, just making a joke at my own expense.  One of the few things I can do when posting that won't piss other people off. :tongue:

 

Yes, we are an interesting group.  We're all probably masochistic at the very least, and anyone that's been a fan of this team for more than 10-12 years may have been driven crazy to some extent.  lol   That said, I'm not sure we're any worse than fans of any other football team.  Ever see Raiders fans dressed up in their garb?  lol

 

No problem.  I'm glad we were able to sort through it.  I look forward to getting to know you and either rejoicing if things work out well, or crying in our beer if the team's woes continue.

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After the Tannenbaum Era, this team could use a little conservative. I like that Idzik seems impervious to outside pressure, and just does his job. Though certainly not the first round picks I wanted, I think in three years we'll be pretty pleased with having the players he drafted on this roster.

 

I totally agree, Tom.  Well said.

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