How is Plaxico an upgrade ?

[JetsFanInDenver]

With last year's relative "dream team" (as the complaints suggest) of Edwards instead of Plaxico, Cotchery instead of Mason/Kerley, LT/Greene playing better, the OL playing like the NFL's best instead of one of its worst, and the defense playing far better:

We are averaging roughly the same points per game and an additional 30 passing yards per game despite the OL going from best-in-the-league to total garbage, no TE on the team who can block, the ground game being awful all season long, Holmes already financially rewarded, Plaxico knowing he's never getting another megadeal due to his age alone, and an abbreviated training camp for Plaxico and Mason and Kerley.

If anything it suggests the current receivers have been an upgrade.

Worse still, the more time Sanchez has had with them the worse he's played. How that blame falls on his familiarity with the receivers or the talent of the receivers is beyond me.

Lastly, there isn't a GM in the NFL who thought Edwards was worth what he wanted from the Jets. With his tail between his legs he had to settle for less than 1/3 of what we offered Plaxico. SF got him for a price he wouldn't ever accept from the Jets after 2 years here and after we damaged his over-inflated ego. It is what it is. There is a salary cap and we signed a ton of veterans to a ton of money. For the money remaining, Plaxico is more than an adequate consolation prize (if he's even a consolation prize at all).

He's not even tearing it up or helping to stretch the defense with SF - his HEALTHY games with SF - with a QB playing far, far better than Sanchez.

How many defensive, ST, garbage time scores are in that roughly same number of points.

And could the additional 30 yards be because we started the season wanting to throw a lot more and then we have been behind in a lot of games and have no other option but to throw, And so if all we have is just a 30 yard additional gain that's pathetic!

Finally, its not like the GMs of this league have not been wrong. And lets not make excuses for the FO's job performance!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Gotcha. Maybe I should just simplify my point.

Creative plays/route designs + Mark Snchz = Disaster.

Oh thats why all WRs run a 7 yard curl route when we need 10 yards!

[Sperm Edwards]

How many defensive, ST, garbage time scores are in that roughly same number of points.

And could the additional 30 yards be because we started the season wanting to throw a lot more and then we have been behind in a lot of games and have no other option but to throw, And so if all we have is just a 30 yard additional gain that's pathetic!

Finally, its not like the GMs of this league have not been wrong. And lets not make excuses for the FO's job performance!

Garbage time? You tell me. While you're at it, go figure out how many yards Sanchez had last year when the defense was giving up everything underneath late in the games and how it boosted his completion percentage to the still-pathetic level of 54.8%.

And you think Braylon Edwards was deserving of a contract in the Santonio Holmes range, which is what he wanted from the Jets? While I liked him as a WR here, he gave all the signs of being a ticking time bomb unworthy of a megadeal with big guaranteed bucks. How dumb does he have to be to have his off-field mishaps while seeking a huge contract to set himself up forever? What are the odds this behavior would have self-corrected AFTER he got paid?

Don't kid yourself. The Jets had him for a couple of years, like Cleveland before us. Internally the team knew what he was and what he wasn't. Word gets around. 32 out of 32 GMs didn't foolishly misfire on not offering Braylon Edwards a contract in the $8-10M/year range where you know better based on a deeply flawed theory of the development of one Mark Sanchez.

Edwards is talented. Plaxico is talented. This is not the #1 reason Sanchez is sucking, because he sucked plenty with Edwards here for 2 years.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Garbage time? You tell me. While you're at it, go figure out how many yards Sanchez had last year when the defense was giving up everything underneath late in the games and how it boosted his completion percentage to the still-pathetic level of 54.8%.

And you think Braylon Edwards was deserving of a contract in the Santonio Holmes range, which is what he wanted from the Jets? While I liked him as a WR here, he gave all the signs of being a ticking time bomb unworthy of a megadeal with big guaranteed bucks. How dumb does he have to be to have his off-field mishaps while seeking a huge contract to set himself up forever? What are the odds this behavior would have self-corrected AFTER he got paid?

Don't kid yourself. The Jets had him for a couple of years, like Cleveland before us. Internally the team knew what he was and what he wasn't. Word gets around. 32 out of 32 GMs didn't foolishly misfire on not offering Braylon Edwards a contract in the $8-10M/year range where you know better based on a deeply flawed theory of the development of one Mark Sanchez.

Edwards is talented. Plaxico is talented. This is not the #1 reason Sanchez is sucking, because he sucked plenty with Edwards here for 2 years.

On what basis do you say that I thought Braylon Edwards was deserving of the Holmes range contract in the $8-10M range? Heck even Holmes did not deserve a Holmes kind of contract! And on what basis do you say Edwards was not willing to settle for less ?

Edwards is faster than Plaxico. Edwards had 5+ 40 yard plays last season. How many does Plax have ? Its plays out in our inability to stretch the field. We are dead last in the category of 40+ yard plays. And lets not say that does not matter.

I would like to see a breakdown of stat of how many meaningful points we have scored on offense this season as compared to last season. Heck it might even prove I am wrong but I would like to see the breakdown.

[Sperm Edwards]

On what basis do you say that I thought Braylon Edwards was deserving of the Holmes range contract in the $8-10M range? Heck even Holmes did not deserve a Holmes kind of contract! And on what basis do you say Edwards was not willing to settle for less ?

Edwards is faster than Plaxico. Edwards had 5+ 40 yard plays last season. How many does Plax have ? Its plays out in our inability to stretch the field. We are dead last in the category of 40+ yard plays. And lets not say that does not matter.

I would like to see a breakdown of stat of how many meaningful points we have scored on offense this season as compared to last season. Heck it might even prove I am wrong but I would like to see the breakdown.

On the basis of it being pretty well publicized that Braylon was seeking #1 money and/or Santonio Holmes money. He thought he was going to get a certain amount on the open market that no one was offering. He ended up settling for an incentive-laden contract we could never sign him to with so much competition for the footballs here (Holmes + Plaxico + Keller + Cotchery, at the time).

You live in Fantasyland if you think we were getting Edwards here for a 1-year $3-4M deal like we got Plaxico for. With Plaxico it was a tryout and at the time he seemed (appropriately) happy enough to be back in the league, near his already-established home, for a SB contending team who - despite having no connections to him - visited him when the rest of the world shut him out. Edwards had a certain idea of his own value, and wasn't going to do a 1 year try-out for a team he'd already been on for 2 years. He was insulted.

He was damn lucky to not get additional jail time and (with or without jail time) a suspension from the league for his DWI following his bullying/beating up of LeBron's midget friend, not to mention driving his car off the road and whatever it took to get that cleaned up so relatively quietly. In short, the guy is a scumbag. This is the behavior he displayed when he had to show he had matured to get a contract. No one is fool enough to give someone like that boatloads of guaranteed money, particularly in the absence of establishing himself as one of the best NFL players at his position.

We are dead last in 40 yard plays because the OL can't be trusted to give Sanchez that kind of time, and when they can Sanchez can't be trusted to not turn the ball over. And no, it isn't nearly as important as you make it out. We are a ball-control team. Sanchez is a terrible QB and a few extra jump balls against inferior defense, when he had the time to throw, would not be alleviated by Edwards being here instead of Plaxico. By the way, you also have to take away another high-priced player because Edwards wasn't playing for us for the money SF is paying him.

The Jets are not worse off with Plaxico replacing Edwards. They are worse off because the OL stinks to high hell this year, the defense isn't what it was, the ground game isn't what it was, and Sanchez is being totally exposed for the stiff he is. Any "meaningful points" vs "garbage time" vs anything doesn't mean the solution, or even a significant part of the solution, is Braylon friggin' Edwards replacing Plaxico Burress.

The reality is that for all his height and speed and jumping ability, Edwards didn't get nearly the separation someone with those measurables should with any regularity. Holmes is shorter, quite possibly slower, and with height and jumping ability doesn't cover the area Edwards does. And he's a better WR. Just like Wes Welker is a better WR than Edwards despite being slower and shorter with a lower vertical.

You're the one making these claims it is incumbent upon you to break down all the points in all the games, not for you to make assertions as to the greatness of Braylon Edwards being the missing ingredient to Sanchez's suckiness, and assign homework to others who disagree with you.

[JetsFanInDenver]

On the basis of it being pretty well publicized that Braylon was seeking #1 money and/or Santonio Holmes money. He thought he was going to get a certain amount on the open market that no one was offering. He ended up settling for an incentive-laden contract we could never sign him to with so much competition for the footballs here (Holmes + Plaxico + Keller + Cotchery, at the time).

You live in Fantasyland if you think we were getting Edwards here for a 1-year $3-4M deal like we got Plaxico for. With Plaxico it was a tryout and at the time he seemed (appropriately) happy enough to be back in the league, near his already-established home, for a SB contending team who - despite having no connections to him - visited him when the rest of the world shut him out. Edwards had a certain idea of his own value, and wasn't going to do a 1 year try-out for a team he'd already been on for 2 years. He was insulted.

He was damn lucky to not get additional jail time and (with or without jail time) a suspension from the league for his DWI following his bullying/beating up of LeBron's midget friend, not to mention driving his car off the road and whatever it took to get that cleaned up so relatively quietly. In short, the guy is a scumbag. This is the behavior he displayed when he had to show he had matured to get a contract. No one is fool enough to give someone like that boatloads of guaranteed money, particularly in the absence of establishing himself as one of the best NFL players at his position.

We are dead last in 40 yard plays because the OL can't be trusted to give Sanchez that kind of time, and when they can Sanchez can't be trusted to not turn the ball over. And no, it isn't nearly as important as you make it out. We are a ball-control team. Sanchez is a terrible QB and a few extra jump balls against inferior defense, when he had the time to throw, would not be alleviated by Edwards being here instead of Plaxico. By the way, you also have to take away another high-priced player because Edwards wasn't playing for us for the money SF is paying him.

The Jets are not worse off with Plaxico replacing Edwards. They are worse off because the OL stinks to high hell this year, the defense isn't what it was, the ground game isn't what it was, and Sanchez is being totally exposed for the stiff he is. Any "meaningful points" vs "garbage time" vs anything doesn't mean the solution, or even a significant part of the solution, is Braylon friggin' Edwards replacing Plaxico Burress.

The reality is that for all his height and speed and jumping ability, Edwards didn't get nearly the separation someone with those measurables should with any regularity. Holmes is shorter, quite possibly slower, and with height and jumping ability doesn't cover the area Edwards does. And he's a better WR. Just like Wes Welker is a better WR than Edwards despite being slower and shorter with a lower vertical.

You're the one making these claims it is incumbent upon you to break down all the points in all the games, not for you to make assertions as to the greatness of Braylon Edwards being the missing ingredient to Sanchez's suckiness, and assign homework to others who disagree with you.

Not still sure where you pulled the $8-10 mill per year contract stuff. It might have started that way but there was enough noise from his camp of him willing to accept less. Since you are a knowledgeable fan not sure how you stick to the $8-10 mill and #1 kindda money stuff. So not sure of the boatload of money guaranteed and high price money stuff you are talking about.

Baseless accusations never prove a point. Stuff like Fantasyland et al. The point being the JETS gave up on signing Braylon and did not try to keep the channels of communication open, So when he signed with the 49ers there was no JETS counter offer. So we let a

the player walk

How do you know he was not going to sign a deal 1 to 2 years deal in the JETS. The fact is we will never know if Braylon would have taken a similar kind of deal from the JETS.

Legal issues did not prevent us from drafting Kenrick Ellis. Just because a guy is scumbag has not prevented us or the entire league with from signing players before. There might a very few exceptions to the do not sign scumbag rule.

So 40+ yard play do not make a difference ? So when a defense knows it only has to defend 20-25 yards of pasture it makes not difference than having to defend an entire field ?

There we go again with the grapes are sour argument. He is not that good and yet he got 904 yards, 7 tds for us last season, including 5 40+ yard plays! We only have 1 so far this season as a team!

You brought that stat up. So i asked you to break it down. You can politely decline. No need to get to get so worked up.

[Sperm Edwards]

Not still sure where you pulled the $8-10 mill per year contract stuff. It might have started that way but there was enough noise from his camp of him willing to accept less. Since you are a knowledgeable fan not sure how you stick to the $8-10 mill and #1 kindda money stuff. So not sure of the boatload of money guaranteed and high price money stuff you are talking about.

Baseless accusations never prove a point. Stuff like Fantasyland et al. The point being the JETS gave up on signing Braylon and did not try to keep the channels of communication open, So when he signed with the 49ers there was no JETS counter offer. So we let a

the player walk

How do you know he was not going to sign a deal 1 to 2 years deal in the JETS. The fact is we will never know if Braylon would have taken a similar kind of deal from the JETS.

Legal issues did not prevent us from drafting Kenrick Ellis. Just because a guy is scumbag has not prevented us or the entire league with from signing players before. There might a very few exceptions to the do not sign scumbag rule.

So 40+ yard play do not make a difference ? So when a defense knows it only has to defend 20-25 yards of pasture it makes not difference than having to defend an entire field ?

There we go again with the grapes are sour argument. He is not that good and yet he got 904 yards, 7 tds for us last season, including 5 40+ yard plays! We only have 1 so far this season as a team!

You brought that stat up. So i asked you to break it down. You can politely decline. No need to get to get so worked up.

In what way am I worked up? I thought the premise was silly, that Braylon Edwards over Plaxico Burress is a major reason for the pathetic offense. It was pathetic last year with Braylon and he isn't exactly lighting it up in SF either. The main reason is Sanchez and anything else is a distant second. It's only compounded by an OC who can't conceal his obvious suckitude (if such a thing is even possible on a regular basis).

Kenrick Ellis is a totally different matter. He was a late 3rd round pick and his offense wasn't nearly as bad as the multiple ones from Edwards and any error on the Jets part would not have been as costly. The Jets had reason to believe he wasn't going to be in deep trouble for that incident while in college, and if his lawbreaking continued it would be under a cheap, rookie contract. Edwards, while a fine receiver, was a thug who beat up a guy half his size, and while on his best behavior with a contract on the line, got a DWI and ran his car off the road. Edwards was not a low risk player.

The thought is silliness that only the singular talent of Braylon Edwards can go deep. Holmes is plenty fast. He's faster than Edwards frankly, and with better ability to get open. They're not going 40+ deep as often for reasons you're choosing to ignore. They usually came when it's our last drive possible in a game we were trailing. We haven't been in those situations much (and incidentally, in our two comeback victories vs Dallas and SD Plaxico has three 4th-quarter TD's). It's not done the rest of the game because it's a low percentage play, the OL blows, and no one on the coaching staff trusts Sanchez to not screw it up unless the team has its back to the wall and is out of options.

Braylon was a fine WR here. He was not elite, though it was clear he thought he was by signing that incentive-laden contract. Also, your argument seems to be that his yards exist in a vacuum. That is, you assume everyone on the team now would have the same number of yards they have this year PLUS we'd have any additional yards Edwards got last year over Plaxico.

Last season Edwards had 4 games with no Holmes and 16 games without our current OL problems. Transplanting his last year's yardage numbers to this year's only occurs by typing on a keyboard.

And he gave zero indication he would take a lowball number from the Jets after he was insulted by no offer. From his comments, he thought he was going to get big bucks from someone and that the offers would just start rolling in. Not one NFL team made him a 1 year $2M offer.

The Jets would be no better. For all we know if he was here he might be in jail already.

The last thing this team needs is yet another overpaid, underperforming veteran.

[JetsFanInDenver]

In what way am I worked up? I thought the premise was silly, that Braylon Edwards over Plaxico Burress is a major reason for the pathetic offense. It was pathetic last year with Braylon and he isn't exactly lighting it up in SF either. The main reason is Sanchez and anything else is a distant second. It's only compounded by an OC who can't conceal his obvious suckitude (if such a thing is even possible on a regular basis).

Kenrick Ellis is a totally different matter. He was a late 3rd round pick and his offense wasn't nearly as bad as the multiple ones from Edwards and any error on the Jets part would not have been as costly. The Jets had reason to believe he wasn't going to be in deep trouble for that incident while in college, and if his lawbreaking continued it would be under a cheap, rookie contract. Edwards, while a fine receiver, was a thug who beat up a guy half his size, and while on his best behavior with a contract on the line, got a DWI and ran his car off the road. Edwards was not a low risk player.

The thought is silliness that only the singular talent of Braylon Edwards can go deep. Holmes is plenty fast. He's faster than Edwards frankly, and with better ability to get open. They're not going 40+ deep as often for reasons you're choosing to ignore. They usually came when it's our last drive possible in a game we were trailing. We haven't been in those situations much (and incidentally, in our two comeback victories vs Dallas and SD Plaxico has three 4th-quarter TD's). It's not done the rest of the game because it's a low percentage play, the OL blows, and no one on the coaching staff trusts Sanchez to not screw it up unless the team has its back to the wall and is out of options.

Braylon was a fine WR here. He was not elite, though it was clear he thought he was by signing that incentive-laden contract. Also, your argument seems to be that his yards exist in a vacuum. That is, you assume everyone on the team now would have the same number of yards they have this year PLUS we'd have any additional yards Edwards got last year over Plaxico.

Last season Edwards had 4 games with no Holmes and 16 games without our current OL problems. Transplanting his last year's yardage numbers to this year's only occurs by typing on a keyboard.

And he gave zero indication he would take a lowball number from the Jets after he was insulted by no offer. From his comments, he thought he was going to get big bucks from someone and that the offers would just start rolling in. Not one NFL team made him a 1 year $2M offer.

The Jets would be no better. For all we know if he was here he might be in jail already.

The last thing this team needs is yet another overpaid, underperforming veteran.

You know too much to make such borderline stupid quotes. Why do we care what he is doing with SF ? And all the talk about him being in jail right now if he was a JET. That's just plain and pure speculation on your part!

He did make an indication he would settle for less. And on what basis do we know whether he would accept or decline a lowball offer from the JETS. Because no offer was made in the end. There was no communication lines open. The JETS FO fudged that one up big time.

Now coming back to the title of this thread. How is Plaxico an upgrade? When he was signed there were ton of people cheerleading his signing. Some people had hard-ons and the ones who didn't atleast thought Plax & Mason upgraded our offense big time. So its only fair to expect a response now.

And surprise surprise. most of those cheerleaders have shied away. But the few responses i am getting so far (tip of the hat for those people manning up) is Plax is not that much of a downgrade or at best its a push! To me he is clearly a downgrade. Because stretching the field on offense matters. And I think there is too much football knowledge on this board for me have to explain why. So to deny that might further an argument for the sake of it but its far from the truth!

[Sperm Edwards]

You know too much to make such borderline stupid quotes. Why do we care what he is doing with SF ? And all the talk about him being in jail right now if he was a JET. That's just plain and pure speculation on your part!

He did make an indication he would settle for less. And on what basis do we know whether he would accept or decline a lowball offer from the JETS. Because no offer was made in the end. There was no communication lines open. The JETS FO fudged that one up big time.

Now coming back to the title of this thread. How is Plaxico an upgrade? When he was signed there were ton of people cheerleading his signing. Some people had hard-ons and the ones who didn't atleast thought Plax & Mason upgraded our offense big time. So its only fair to expect a response now.

And surprise surprise. most of those cheerleaders have shied away. But the few responses i am getting so far (tip of the hat for those people manning up) is Plax is not that much of a downgrade or at best its a push! To me he is clearly a downgrade. Because stretching the field on offense matters. And I think there is too much football knowledge on this board for me have to explain why. So to deny that might further an argument for the sake of it but its far from the truth!

Plaxico is an upgrade because he is a better receiver and is better use of the salary cap dollar for dollar. You may indulge in fantasies of Braylon Edwards accepting a tryout-type contract after trying out here for 2 years - one that would be an enormous pay cut from his prior season - and face the locker room with his head between his legs while Santonio Holmes pockets a $10M/year deal with plenty of it guaranteed. But this fantasy has no basis in anything said by Edwards or the team. He took an offer for around the league minimum which is an 80% pay cut from his 2010 number.

The Jets fudged what up? Braylon was fine. He was not the second coming of anything. He is younger and faster. His hands are worse and even with his better speed, so is his ability to get separation. He also isn't the endzone target Plaxico is despite his size and leaping ability suggesting he should be. Plax is no prize, but he's just flat-out a better player than Edwards. Edwards SHOULD be twice the player he is and has been, yet he isn't.

He also got in trouble with the law twice while seeking a long-term deal. Jets took a 1-year shot on Plaxico figuring his past idiocy scared him straight. Plaxico is quite certainly happier with his short-term deal than Braylon Edwards.

If you have any proof - or even a hint of an insinuation - that Edwards would have taken a low-dollar 1-year deal from the Jets then produce it. Until then we will go with what we know, which is that Edwards was seeking a long-term deal with the Jets since his first season here ended, and in July figured the offers would come pouring in when the Jets passed.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Plaxico is an upgrade because he is a better receiver and is better use of the salary cap dollar for dollar. You may indulge in fantasies of Braylon Edwards accepting a tryout-type contract after trying out here for 2 years - one that would be an enormous pay cut from his prior season - and face the locker room with his head between his legs while Santonio Holmes pockets a $10M/year deal with plenty of it guaranteed. But this fantasy has no basis in anything said by Edwards or the team. He took an offer for around the league minimum which is an 80% pay cut from his 2010 number.

The Jets fudged what up? Braylon was fine. He was not the second coming of anything. He is younger and faster. His hands are worse and even with his better speed, so is his ability to get separation. He also isn't the endzone target Plaxico is despite his size and leaping ability suggesting he should be. Plax is no prize, but he's just flat-out a better player than Edwards. Edwards SHOULD be twice the player he is and has been, yet he isn't.

He also got in trouble with the law twice while seeking a long-term deal. Jets took a 1-year shot on Plaxico figuring his past idiocy scared him straight. Plaxico is quite certainly happier with his short-term deal than Braylon Edwards.

If you have any proof - or even a hint of an insinuation - that Edwards would have taken a low-dollar 1-year deal from the Jets then produce it. Until then we will go with what we know, which is that Edwards was seeking a long-term deal with the Jets since his first season here ended, and in July figured the offers would come pouring in when the Jets passed.

Sorry. I stopped reading right there. Let me know when that delusion fades or he comes up with 5 40+ yard plays for the season or he lights it up and helps the JETS go forward. I would gladly be wrong. And have no problem admitting so. Regards.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sorry. I stopped reading right there. Let me know when that delusion fades or he comes up with 5 40+ yard plays for the season or he lights it up and helps the JETS go forward. I would gladly be wrong. And have no problem admitting so. Regards.

Anthony Armstrong had 7 of them last year. He must therefore be the best WR in the NFL since this is the best measure of what makes a WR a better football player.

It is also a clear indication of how a player will do the following season. Oh wait -- oops.

[HessStation]

I think Plex needed half a season to get his legs and eye-hand coordination back. But he's also an older player who is just naturally gonna loose some skills due to age. That said, Schitty's system is a ******* complete abortion, so it's hard to tell what's really going on.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Anthony Armstrong had 7 of them last year. He must therefore be the best WR in the NFL since this is the best measure of what makes a WR a better football player.

It is also a clear indication of how a player will do the following season. Oh wait -- oops.

So you give me an offhand one off example of a guy whose career was that of a certified JAG and who was on Miami's PS squad and now plays for the Redkins (sic) and expect me to believe that is the rule. On the other hand using the same methodology Mike Wallace, Dewayne Bowe, Greg Jennings all seem to be on pace or in the ball park of their last season numbers in this stat.

How Braylon would have done is he had stayed here ? The obvious answer is we will never know.

But based on the methodology you provided the chances of him succeeding seemed a lot greater than i previously thought.

[JiFtheOracle]

So you give me an offhand one off example of a guy whose career was that of a certified JAG and who was on Miami's PS squad and now plays for the Redkins (sic) and expect me to believe that is the rule. On the other hand using the same methodology Mike Wallace, Dewayne Bowe, Greg Jennings all seem to be on pace or in the ball park of their last season numbers in this stat.

How Braylon would have done is he had stayed here ? The obvious answer is we will never know.

But based on the methodology you provided the chances of him succeeding seemed a lot greater than i previously thought.

Wait, Braylon Edwards was more than a JAG? Huh, didnt know that.

Plax >>> Braylon

Duh

[JetsFanInDenver]

Wait, Braylon Edwards was more than a JAG? Huh, didnt know that.

Plax >>> Braylon

Duh

Thanks for your educated opinion.

[JiFtheOracle]

Thanks for your educated opinion.

Braylon Edwards is a jag. And now, he's not even that...he's completely irrelevant and you'd have to actually try and find his name to know that he's part of the NFL.

Plax is getting better every week and scoring TDs. If we had a decent QB, he'd probably playing like the elite top 10 WR he was before he went to prison.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Braylon Edwards is a jag. And now, he's not even that...he's completely irrelevant and you'd have to actually try and find his name to know that he's part of the NFL.

Plax is getting better every week and scoring TDs. If we had a decent QB, he'd probably playing like the elite top 10 WR he was before he went to prison.

Alrighty then.

[JiFtheOracle]

Alrighty then.

Glad I could help.

Enjoy.

[#27TheDominator]

Sorry. I stopped reading right there. Let me know when that delusion fades or he comes up with 5 40+ yard plays for the season or he lights it up and helps the JETS go forward. I would gladly be wrong. And have no problem admitting so. Regards.

I don't feel like getting sucked back into this bullsh*t, but can you answer a simple question? Is there any basis whatsoever for thinking that our belief that Plaxico Burress is better is unfounded? I can understand agreeing to disagree, but Edwards certainly hasn't done anything to prove us wrong. Unless you are going to go back to 2007. You want a deep threat? You want 40+ yard receptions? Fair enough. Some of us appreciate other qualities and think they are more important. Is that impossible to understand?

[Sperm Edwards]

So you give me an offhand one off example of a guy whose career was that of a certified JAG and who was on Miami's PS squad and now plays for the Redkins (sic) and expect me to believe that is the rule. On the other hand using the same methodology Mike Wallace, Dewayne Bowe, Greg Jennings all seem to be on pace or in the ball park of their last season numbers in this stat.

How Braylon would have done is he had stayed here ? The obvious answer is we will never know.

But based on the methodology you provided the chances of him succeeding seemed a lot greater than i previously thought.

Methodology I provided? I used your methodology. Perhaps New England should replace Wes Welker with anyone with better straightaway speed.

You are the only person I've ever come across that suggests the most important measure of a WR's worth is the quantity of 40-yard plays in the prior NFL season. That even catching TD's is less important.

You think I was cherry-picking? You gave one off-hand example of Edwards' one season (last year) where he had those numbers and use it as though that is what a team is to expect every year, even though he'd never done it before and never will again.

And if you think Armstrong isn't high-profile enough (despite doing noticeably better in this supposedly all-important category than Braylon Edwards ever did or ever will), I'll throw a name out there that isn't obscure at all:

Larry Fitzgerald

Clearly Braylon Edwards is a better WR than Fitzgerald because Braylon had five 40+ yard plays in 2010. Fitz only had 1 last season and zero the season before. Therefore he's JAG and Arizona's WR corps would be improved if they traded Larry Fitzgerald for Braylon Edwards.

Your methodology, not mine.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Methodology I provided? I used your methodology. Perhaps New England should replace Wes Welker with anyone with better straightaway speed.

You are the only person I've ever come across that suggests the most important measure of a WR's worth is the quantity of 40-yard plays in the prior NFL season. That even catching TD's is less important.

You think I was cherry-picking? You gave one off-hand example of Edwards' one season (last year) where he had those numbers and use it as though that is what a team is to expect every year, even though he'd never done it before and never will again.

And if you think Armstrong isn't high-profile enough (despite doing noticeably better in this supposedly all-important category than Braylon Edwards ever did or ever will), I'll throw a name out there that isn't obscure at all:

Larry Fitzgerald

Clearly Braylon Edwards is a better WR than Fitzgerald because Braylon had five 40+ yard plays in 2010. Fitz only had 1 last season and zero the season before. Therefore he's JAG and Arizona's WR corps would be improved if they traded Larry Fitzgerald for Braylon Edwards.

Your methodology, not mine.

Wow. Just wow. Never would have expected such a post from you.

Who was Fitzgerald's QB in 2010 ?

And we forget about guys like Mike Wallace and Boe.

Based on the methodology provided the chances of him succeeding seemed a lot greater than i previously thought. Baring one or two exceptions when WRs are in the same team and same QB their chances of returning similar numbers is more of the rule rather than the exception.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I don't feel like getting sucked back into this bullsh*t, but can you answer a simple question? Is there any basis whatsoever for thinking that our belief that Plaxico Burress is better is unfounded? I can understand agreeing to disagree, but Edwards certainly hasn't done anything to prove us wrong. Unless you are going to go back to 2007. You want a deep threat? You want 40+ yard receptions? Fair enough. Some of us appreciate other qualities and think they are more important. Is that impossible to understand?

If you find its BS, just ignore it.

[Sperm Edwards]

Wow. Just wow. Never would have expected such a post from you.

Who was Fitzgerald's QB in 2010 ?

And we forget about guys like Mike Wallace and Boe.

Based on the methodology provided the chances of him succeeding seemed a lot greater than i previously thought. Baring one or two exceptions when WRs are in the same team and same QB their chances of returning similar numbers is more of the rule rather than the exception.

You're making this too easy for me. Who was Fitzgerald's QB in 2009?

You still haven't addressed how you draw the conclusion that Edwards' career high last year is now the benchmark for how he is expected to perform going forward.

Kendall Hunter has more 40-yard plays for SF than Edwards this year.

Josh Miller, Delanie Walker, and Bruce Miller all have more 30-yard plays for SF this year than Edwards does.

You are going on & on about a WR who was merely good for us. We cut bait at just the right time, it would seem, since he's done a whole lot of nothing for a first-place team. So far this year SF averages about a TD more per game when he's not playing than when he is.

Get over yourself. A WR's worth year after year is not measured by the one year he had his most 40-yard receptions in a season. No one thinks that, or the offers would have been flying in for Edwards. Certainly he would have done better than $1M guaranteed on a 1-year deal. And he certainly could have, but only if some team made you its GM.

[#27TheDominator]

If you find its BS, just ignore it.

Consider it done. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

[Bergen Jet]

Can we award Sperm Edwards the TKO yet?

[Sperm Edwards]

Can we award Sperm Edwards the TKO yet?

Funny thing is I didn't even dislike Edwards (on the field) when he was here. I was fine with bringing him back but I also realize that there were a lot of veterans whose contracts were up and you can't pay everyone.

I'm sure he'll have a good game here or there at some point, but it sure does look like we moved on from him at just the right time. Of all the "shoulda-coulda-woulda" moves, Braylon's name shouldn't make the list.

Plaxico had no summer with Sanchez, hadn't played football in years, has had some back issues, with a QB who can barely hit a moving (or stationary) target from point-blank range, and yet he's on pace to become the first Jets receiver with double-digit TD's since no one can remember when. And this is someone's gripe with the 2011 Jets?

Holmes can stretch the field just fine and did so regularly in Pittsburgh (who also had plenty of OL woes). Prior to Santonio's introduction to Mark Sanchez he was a 16-18 ypr WR while playing opposite a possession WR and a 500-600-yard TE. Sound familiar to anyone?

[JetsFanInDenver]

You're making this too easy for me. Who was Fitzgerald's QB in 2009?

You still haven't addressed how you draw the conclusion that Edwards' career high last year is now the benchmark for how he is expected to perform going forward.

Kendall Hunter has more 40-yard plays for SF than Edwards this year.

Josh Miller, Delanie Walker, and Bruce Miller all have more 30-yard plays for SF this year than Edwards does.

You are going on & on about a WR who was merely good for us. We cut bait at just the right time, it would seem, since he's done a whole lot of nothing for a first-place team. So far this year SF averages about a TD more per game when he's not playing than when he is.

Get over yourself. A WR's worth year after year is not measured by the one year he had his most 40-yard receptions in a season. No one thinks that, or the offers would have been flying in for Edwards. Certainly he would have done better than $1M guaranteed on a 1-year deal. And he certainly could have, but only if some team made you its GM.

Ahhh...he had a career high of 5 40 yard plays for us. Why should i consider that ? Could it be that for 3 years in a row he had 4 40 + yard plays every year. Not too shabby. Infact he has been pretty consistent in that stat. But who wants a deep threat ? How would that help an offense ?

I am sure you follow the NFL. Did you forget he was out with an injury ? But don't let facts stop you from making stuff up to prove your point.

So you are saying that there have been no player where all teams have been collectively wrong about a player ?

So coming back to the question. How is Plax an upgrade ? He has lost speed. And some of his die hard supporters have admitted that. We cannot stretch the field and he contributes lees yards/game then the receiver he replaced.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Plaxico had no summer with Sanchez, hadn't played football in years, has had some back issues, with a QB who can barely hit a moving (or stationary) target from point-blank range, and yet he's on pace to become the first Jets receiver with double-digit TD's since no one can remember when. And this is someone's gripe with the 2011 Jets?

Holmes can stretch the field just fine and did so regularly in Pittsburgh (who also had plenty of OL woes). Prior to Santonio's introduction to Mark Sanchez he was a 16-18 ypr WR while playing opposite a possession WR and a 500-600-yard TE. Sound familiar to anyone?

Ahh...so despite having such red flags it was a smart move to sign him. What you are saying is he is performing against all odds. But if a move has such high odds of failure why did we sign him during the offseason ?

Its nice to see Burress has 6 TDs although he had 3 in one game. As a JETS fan I hope he has many more 3 TD games this season but thats based on pure blind hope.

The Red zone conversion rate has increased from last year. But the problem has been getting to the end zone. Those high number of 3 and outs we have had every game is because its easy for opposing defenses to defend against the JETS because they have no deep threats to worry about and only have to defend 20-25 yars of pasture and not the entire field.

I have said this before and I would say it again, Santonio Homles play has been a disappointment this season. So we have zero deep threats. Infact IIRC over only 40+ yard play was by LT and it wasn't on a deep pass!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Can we award Sperm Edwards the TKO yet?

No poms poms ?

[Sperm Edwards]

Ahhh...he had a career high of 5 40 yard plays for us. Why should i consider that ? Could it be that for 3 years in a row he had 4 40 + yard plays every year. Not too shabby. Infact he has been pretty consistent in that stat. But who wants a deep threat ? How would that help an offense ?

I am sure you follow the NFL. Did you forget he was out with an injury ? But don't let facts stop you from making stuff up to prove your point.

So you are saying that there have been no player where all teams have been collectively wrong about a player ?

So coming back to the question. How is Plax an upgrade ? He has lost speed. And some of his die hard supporters have admitted that. We cannot stretch the field and he contributes lees yards/game then the receiver he replaced.

So did Santonio Holmes until Sanchez was his QB. Holmes is plenty of a deep threat, and should be a better pair with Plaxico than with Edwards. Even though he still stinks, technically Sanchez's numbers are better with Holmes/Plaxico than they were with Holmes/Edwards.

He ain't all that. Frankly if you were such a fan of the team you'd be celebrating the Jets finally letting someone go at the right time instead of keeping for years longer than we wanted with a bad contract.

He sucks now anyway and is struggling to keep his numbers up to the level of the great Josh Morgan (despite playing 2 more games than Morgan). You harp on Plaxico's not-so-ironman status and yet it's Edwards who has missed 4 games to Plaxico's zero.

Basically nothing you have said holds any water other than Edwards being a better deep threat than Plaxico. And to that the Jets (and 30 other teams) yawned, "Big whoop. Let someone else sign him."

[Sperm Edwards]

Being injured is not an excuse. It is with 100% certainty you'd be holding that against Plaxico if he was the one injured instead, adding it to your list of reasons why signing Plaxico instead was dumb. Yet when Braylon misses time you automatically excuse and absolve it.

Edwards has missed 4 games and done next to nothing in the games he's played, and this has got to be the silliest, most unjustified fan complaint in years. Hell, I could understand it before the season started. But Edwards is both awful and unreliable this year.

He flat-out dropped 3 passes including a TD that went through his hands vs Arizona this year and got pulled for Kyle friggin' Williams. He has zero 40-yard plays, zero 30-yard plays, and two 20-plays this year.

We run all those short patterns now because the OL is terrible and Sanchez stays in one place like a punching bag. He doesn't buy time on his own so with the pass-blocking woes Schottenheimer, rightly or wrongly, has relied much more heavily on quick, short timing patterns than the prior 2 seasons.

[RutgersJetFan]

Best thread ever.

[JiFtheOracle]

Can we award Sperm Edwards the TKO yet?

I like watching the guy come back for more...its fun to watch. I've actually never seen anyone get a pwned as much as this dude in this thread.

I say we let it go. Let his corner throw in the towel (which clearly will never happen) lol

[Sperm Edwards]

I like watching the guy come back for more...its fun to watch. I've actually never seen anyone get a pwned as much as this dude in this thread.

I say we let it go. Let his corner throw in the towel (which clearly will never happen) lol

Get up you son of a bitch, 'cause Mickey loves you!!

[RutgersJetFan]

I like watching the guy come back for more...its fun to watch.

That and the fact that he's referring to his talking points as methodology.