ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You have no idea wtf your talking about. Your going to actully argue about the player without even watching the game and call me "ifs" ? Get real man. Clemens played very well and showed tremendous improvement in areas he was terrible here yet here you come with you "they only scored 13 points" arguement. The guy was there for 11 days and he got the ball to his receivers and showed very good pocket presence thats much more than he accomplished here. Do I think this means Kellen is heading for greatness ? NO not by any means but he at least showed hes capable of playing in the NFL something he did not show here. Oh, Ifs-mouth, I'm not arguing anything about the player. Not a word. What I'm arguing against is the idea that his performance, in a loss, with one meaningless TD at the end, makes any kind of statement about his offensive coordinator in 2007. Clemens also had some pretty solid, NFL caliber performances in 2007, including Washington, Pittsburgh, Miami, and looked better against Baltimore than Sanchez ever has. I also happen to believe that Clemens was never given a fair shot by the Jets. He had the 2nd half of 2007, in which the team was horrendous, and your claims of not having weapons would actually have held water. Then the Jets brought in Brett Favre, then the Jets traded up for the #5 pick to draft Sanchez. I don't know either what Clemens would have turned into, but he certainly was never given a chance to prove anything on the field. I actually put that one on Woody Johnson, who wants, understandably so, a marketable QB as the face of his franchise, because he had PSLs to sell, which is all this has really been about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Marketable QB's are ultimately ones that win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 what's up with bg, he sounds like a lunatic when ranting on schotty.. he doesn't have a rifle does he? Try watching a football game with BG in real life. The part when he details his plans for murdering a referee and burning their home with their children inside is definitely a "highlight". Ask me if I'm joking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Try watching a football game with BG in real life. The part when he details his plans for murdering a referee and burning their home with their children inside is definitely a "highlight". Ask me if I'm joking.... ha, honestly it's about what I'd expect.. i see him in the game day threads.... jif told me once about how klacko is during games, and that fits exactly how you'd expect as well.. the older i get the less important it all is to me... I was pretty much done with the game after the first sanchez int and spent the rest of the day only half paying attention to the game and more tuned into stupid ff playoffs.. today i don't care at all, this place is more tolerable after a loss anyway, tbh... after a big win when klacko and his minions are chest pounding it's pretty unbearable, so there's def a positive to the loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Oh, Ifs-mouth... Do I need to watch a St. Louis Rams game to know that saying after one game, where they scored 13 and lost, and the "TD Toss" we're talking about came with just over a minute left, and the team down by 14 to know that it doesn't prove anything about his offensive coordinator in 2007? The fact is this is a piece written by someone with an agenda, being heralded by others with an agenda, but, I promise you, I didn't expect you to see that... I was responding to SoFla and BG. You really think I'm not fully aware it was a ridiculous concept with a clear agenda? Of course it is, still doesn't make the guy any less inept at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You really think I'm not fully aware it was a ridiculous concept with a clear agenda? Of course it is, still doesn't make the guy any less inept at his job. Who knows what any of you Schotty Tea-Baggers believe anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 ha, honestly it's about what I'd expect.. i see him in the game day threads.... jif told me once about how klacko is during games, and that fits exactly how you'd expect as well.. the older i get the less important it all is to me... I was pretty much done with the game after the first sanchez int and spent the rest of the day only half paying attention to the game and more tuned into stupid ff playoffs.. today i don't care at all, this place is more tolerable after a loss anyway, tbh... after a big win when klacko and his minions are chest pounding it's pretty unbearable, so there's def a positive to the loss This has been the most challenging/busiest year of my life, school/work-wise. I've definitely been effected less by it, though, last year was pretty busy too, and I was pretty damn into the the run the team made, so I don't know if I'm just distant in part because I really don't believe in this team at all this year, or if other things just carry a lot more weight to me now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Oh, Ifs-mouth... Do I need to watch a St. Louis Rams game to know that saying after one game, where they scored 13 and lost, and the "TD Toss" we're talking about came with just over a minute left, and the team down by 14 to know that it doesn't prove anything about his offensive coordinator in 2007? The fact is this is a piece written by someone with an agenda, being heralded by others with an agenda, but, I promise you, I didn't expect you to see that... I was responding to SoFla and BG. I used it as an example to make the bigger point that it doesn't matter WHO the Jets' QB is, he will never flourish with Brian Schottenheimer as his OC. I also feel that Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum share just as much if not MORE of the blame for this season. The Jets spent weeks in a shortened NFL summer trying to get Rex a new "toy" to play with in Asomugha. In the meantime players were moving all around the league fast and furiously while we were in a state of stasis...waiting, and hoping for an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 ha, honestly it's about what I'd expect.. i see him in the game day threads.... jif told me once about how klacko is during games, and that fits exactly how you'd expect as well.. the older i get the less important it all is to me... I was pretty much done with the game after the first sanchez int and spent the rest of the day only half paying attention to the game and more tuned into stupid ff playoffs.. today i don't care at all, this place is more tolerable after a loss anyway, tbh... after a big win when klacko and his minions are chest pounding it's pretty unbearable, so there's def a positive to the loss I actually used to get far more pissed off than I ever do these days. If anything, the game day thread is just a means of venting about this garbage team. I really was just sitting there and laughing by the end of the second quarter yesterday, and rooting for McCoy to tear the Jets a new one, it's gotten to that point. Definitely didn't used to be like that, but overall I've found now that I'm not absolutely miserable all day every Monday through Friday, I have no interest in being at all further vested in this team once it even just starts to piss me off. The occasional message board rant doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I used it as an example to make the bigger point that it doesn't matter WHO the Jets' QB is, he will never flourish with Brian Schottenheimer as his OC. come on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I used it as an example to make the bigger point that it doesn't matter WHO the Jets' QB is, he will never flourish with Brian Schottenheimer as his OC. I also feel that Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum share just as much if not MORE of the blame for this season. The Jets spent weeks in a shortened NFL summer trying to get Rex a new "toy" to play with in Asomugha. In the meantime players were moving all around the league fast and furiously while we were in a state of stasis...waiting, and hoping for an answer. But, my point is, Kellen being "ok" yesterday doesn't make any kind of point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Who knows what any of you Schotty Tea-Baggers believe anymore? That a guy who's shown for 6 years that he sucks at his job, sucks at his job? Crazy concept I know, and I'm sorry you feel it impedes on your own Sanchez Tea-Bagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 That a guy who's shown for 6 years that he sucks at his job, sucks at his job? Crazy concept I know, and I'm sorry you feel it impedes on your own Sanchez Tea-Bagging. The equivalent "Sanchez Tea Bagging" would be to mention Brunell's 27 yard completion as proof that Sanchez's play the previous 3 games was based on the scheme rather than his talent. But, that's not a road I really want to go down right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I used it as an example to make the bigger point that it doesn't matter WHO the Jets' QB is, he will never flourish with Brian Schottenheimer as his OC. I also feel that Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum share just as much if not MORE of the blame for this season. The Jets spent weeks in a shortened NFL summer trying to get Rex a new "toy" to play with in Asomugha. In the meantime players were moving all around the league fast and furiously while we were in a state of stasis...waiting, and hoping for an answer. I think it goes more to show that Rex's point about needing 6 years to really evaluate a QB is more relevent. A couple years ago, Kellen was tripping over breaks in the turf trying to roll out. Now he's playing decent football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The equivalent "Sanchez Tea Bagging" would be to mention Brunell's 27 yard completion as proof that Sanchez's play the previous 3 games was based on the scheme rather than his talent. But, that's not a road I really want to go down right now. The equivalent of what, that blog post? Glad to see we've set our standards so high. Hell, even I know that argument was even just barely worse than the stance that 3 good offensive performances in 2008 is proof positive that Schotty is actually competent at his job and using it as a means to further criticize Sanchez, but nobody would make an argument like that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The equivalent of what, that blog post? Glad to see we've set our standards so high. Hell, even I know that argument was even just barely worse than the stance that 3 good offensive performances in 2008 is proof positive that Schotty is actually competent at his job and using it as a means to further criticize Sanchez, but nobody would make an argument like that, right? Hence, exactly where the Schotty tea-bagging is at it's finest... Outside of Gato (who's argument is basically just satirizing the Schotty hatred), there's not really a poster I can recall saying Schotty is "good at his job". In reality, there are 2 arguments here... 1 side who believe the lion's share of the offensive problems are the coordinator and 1 side that believe that it's the talent... There's a few idiots out there who don't fall into either, but the majority of people are making those two points. What you've just done is the typical, Schotty Tea-Bagger move... taken any argument that's not 100% anti-Schotty and conceptualized it as pro-Schotty. Do I or CTM think Schotty is good? Not really, nope. Do we think the offense is going to make a great leap forward just by changing him? Not really, nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hence, exactly where the Schotty tea-bagging is at it's finest... Outside of Gato (who's argument is basically just satirizing the Schotty hatred), there's not really a poster I can recall saying Schotty is "good at his job". In reality, there are 2 arguments here... 1 side who believe the lion's share of the offensive problems are the coordinator and 1 side that believe that it's the talent... There's a few idiots out there who don't fall into either, but the majority of people are making those two points. What you've just done is the typical, Schotty Tea-Bagger move... taken any argument that's not 100% anti-Schotty and conceptualized it as pro-Schotty. Do I or CTM think Schotty is good? Not really, nope. Do we think the offense is going to make a great leap forward just by changing him? Not really, nope. heh, more or less.. I would say though if we got somehow got a legit great coordinator the offense would look a lot better.. Even a new guy who opposing coaches won't have a book on for a season or two will help, for awhile.. My main point though that is the biggest issue is the qb, if we happened to get a guy like Rodgers in here this would easily be a top 3 offense easily and that our offensive output hasn't drastically diverged from where I'd have expected it to end up based on talent at qb... we've had avg/bad qb's and the offensive output has been avg/bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 heh, more or less.. I would say though if we got somehow got a legit great coordinator the offense would look a lot better.. Even a new guy who opposing coaches won't have a book on for a season or two will help, for awhile.. My main point though that is the biggest issue is the qb, if we happened to get a guy like Rodgers in here this would easily be a top 3 offense easily and that our offensive output hasn't drastically diverged from where I'd have expected it to end up based on talent at qb... we've had avg/bad qb's and the offensive output has been avg/bad... Forgetting a moment the great irony of EY's post, I don't entirely disagree with this stance. I think I've made it abundantly clear I don't think Schotty is the only problem with this offense, replacing him won't fix everything and Sanchez has proven at this point he sucks all by himself. The difference is unlike a lot of people around here who feel like they have to take one extreme stance or the other, I don't feel the desperate need to defend one guy who blows at his job in order to make sure I have extra ammunition to blast another guy who also does. It would be like saying "oh come on now, Herm isn't all THAT bad", just to be able to trash Chad, and even I was never willing to go that far. The point is, it's actually possible that it could be an issue of BOTH coaching AND talent. Crazy, right? I'm just not sure 99% of JN is ready to handle that possibility. And to think, all of this because of a sarcastic response to a ridiculous post in a clearly agenda-based thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 re: the clemens nonsense... just read they didn't convert a single third down until the fourth quarter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 re: the clemens nonsense... just read they didn't convert a single third down until the fourth quarter Obviously all Josh McDaniels' fault. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I used it as an example to make the bigger point that it doesn't matter WHO the Jets' QB is, he will never flourish with Brian Schottenheimer as his OC. I also feel that Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum share just as much if not MORE of the blame for this season. The Jets spent weeks in a shortened NFL summer trying to get Rex a new "toy" to play with in Asomugha. In the meantime players were moving all around the league fast and furiously while we were in a state of stasis...waiting, and hoping for an answer. 100% agree on all points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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